The trusty MacBook.

Hi.

With all this crave over the MacBook Air, and the posibility of a new Pro coming I wanted to know about the good old MacBook.

It needs changing, I think it is about time they changed the boring White/Black to something cooler.

But for the new Pro's I think that picture we saw a while back of a ultraportable Mac, sitting next to the Pro may well be on the horizon. As people have been waiting for a ultraportable, but they also want a new 12" PowerBook replacement.

Anyway, will the MacBook be changed?

Nick

 

boring white/black?

I disagree, I think the MB looks great! A silver MB would look weird.

 

the MB needs a dedicated video card. (even a 8400m gs will do)

 

I doubt the Macbook will get a dedicated video card. But it does need some updates.

 

I can't see why it would. I prefer it with the GMA X3100. A dedicated video card will add cost and heat, and lower the battery life.

The only reason to prefer a 8400 over the X3100 is for gaming. And realistically, gaming on a 13 inch laptop or on a mac are not top priorities for most gamers.

So I'd say...the MB does not need a dedicated video card.

 

I think the MB will eventually will come in a new color. I'm kinda thinking that Macbooks are following the designs of iPods. The old 5th generation iPods came in the same type of black and white color as the current MB. Then it got replaced by the iPod classic which came in anodized aluminum with color choices. So I predict that the next Macbooks will look something like today's iPods.

 

Lol.

A pink Macbook. That would be interesting.

 

The macbook needs to shed some weight...

 

I would prefer a metal MB available in the same shades as the nano. If Apple had a model like that I would not have purchased a MBA.

 

I'd say it does. If a MBP with a much much more powerful card and larger screen can get the same battery life as a Macbook I don't think it'd be an issue. I don't think it would add cost, because even my bros $700 laptop has a dedicated card, and heat on an 8400 wouldn't be TOO much hotter than the X3100. Even if gaming isn't a priority, it's a possibility, especially with boot camp. Hell Apple has a Games section on their website too.

 

The last news of a refreshed MacBook, from 9 to 5 Mac noting a thin 13.3-inch notebook with a "funny trackpad" seems to be what is now the MacBook Air. So in that case, we don't really know what's going to be happening to the MacBook. I wouldn't mind it going aluminum, it'll slim it down and help reduce some weight.

 

I just got to ask why?

I dont play games on any computer. I did once, and a 8400 of any favor is a joke of a video card. Add to that the selection of games on a Mac is sad.

A dedicated video card would only serve to add heat and drain a battery faster.

I think the Macbook is the best notebook I have ever owned. size, features....etc make my Black Mackbook just fabulous.

 

Dedicated graphics aren't exclusively for gaming BTW. for example a decent 3D graphics card is required to effectively watch bluray and HD-DVD content.

False... video cards on laptops lower their clocks when you aren't playing games or plugged in.

 

It would be interesting, and gut wrenching!

 

That is absolutely true. Good point. If the macbook gets a dedicated gpu that is most likely the reason. Of course, they will have to revamp osx first to make better use of the gpu with video content.

False: just because the video card lowers its clock doesn't mean it avoids draining the battery faster than an igp.

 

Why would you wanna watch Hi-Def content when the screen res isn't 1080X1920 in order to truly take advantage of BD or HD? And plus hi-def is really a waste on a 13.3" screen, at least IMO.

 

My understanding is that the X3100 comes with hardware HD acceleration. It should play HD without issue, especially with the power of the C2D.

 

Macbooks can output to a larger screen. Dedicated video card means it can support better resolutions, and display HD video on monitors better. I really don't see a reason NOT to have dedicated graphics on a Macbook, or at least have an option between integrated and dedicated.

 

I am hoping they come in colours! And aluminium, and the Pro should offer a 12" version!

Thats what I would like, does anyone know when it might happen?

Thank you.

Nick.

 

If Apple offers a 12" MBP, I'm going to buy one. A big mistake I made not too long ago, was to give my 12" PB to a close friend who needed something while on the go. I loved that little machine. Had it for three years and NOTHING in it ever failed. Probably was the best computer I've ever owned.

 

Absolutely untrue.

The GeForce 8400M GS can clock the core and memory speed down to 100MHz when not "in use" for advanced graphics or video capabilities.

There is absolutely no reason it should add cost either. You can find HPs at Staples with that same GPU, 3GB of RAM, HD DVD drives, 250GB HDDs for under $1,000.

Dedicated GPUs have other uses. Especially in Windows. OS X really needs to catch up in this regard. In Windows, an 8400M GS can do full H.264, VC-1, MPEG-2, and various MPEG-4 (aside from H.264) decoding. I'm not talking about the lame MC or iDCT support on the X3100 either. We're talking full decoding, upscaling, deblocking, etc.

You can actually watch a 720p or higher resolution H.264 video in Windows with a GeForce 8400M GS and your CPU use will hover around 10%

I also have a 15.4" notebook, but I don't play games on it. Thanks to portability, I connect it via HDMI to my LCD TV + surround sound system.

Again, the heat and battery life argument is a myth. The power saving features of the GeForce 8400M GS are every bit as advanced, if not more so, than the X3100. The card is also designed to be passively cooled.

The 8400M GS is actually a very good card. It's run every game I have thrown at it, including Crysis at low settings. Not to mention it has advanced video features that the X3100 can't even come close to. Watching a DVD in Windows on the 8400M GS is a complete night and day difference compared to DVD Player in OS X (it doesn't take advantage of any GPU features on any model).

And yeah, we know the selection of games on Mac OS X isn't very good. But one of the good things about Intel Macs is the ability to run Windows

Well, the 8400M GS clocks down to 100/100. Seeing as how the Intel cards are integrated into other chips and have other functions as a result, they cannot lower their clock speeds to such low levels.

You mean 1920x1080 Again, connect the MacBook to a bigger display.

False. The X3100 only features Hardware Motion Compensation and iDCT support for MPEG-2 and very minimal hardware support for WMV. It does not even come close to the hardware support for H.264, MPEG-2, VC-1, WMV, etc. that you find on a modern dedicated GPU, or even an integrated GPU from AMD or nVidia.

I have a 720p H.264 video running in PowerDVD right now. With "PureVideo" enabled (nVidia's full hardware support for video), CPU use hovers around 4% and peaks at 6%. If I rely entirely on software decoding, that jumps up to 23-28%.

When I use hardware acceleration, the system stays cool and quiet.

Also, I want to point out that the same video on my MacBook (C2D 2.16GHz) comes in at around 60% of one core and causes the system fan to kick in to high gear. Watching a standard def H.264 video purchased from iTunes causes the Mac to hover around 35% single core.

Keep in mind that these are low-bitrate files too. If you bring HD DVD and Blu-ray into it, you can expect up to 30x the bitrate of iTunes videos.

DVD playback itself under OS X hovers around 25% of one core. Watch a movie with a varying bitrate, like Transformers or Saving Private Ryan. You'll see how the CPU useage fluctuates with the bitrate changes.

Now apply that to a codec that already requires much more CPU time at lower bitrates, and then multiply that by up to 30. Even the fastest Core 2 Duos will have issues playing H.264 and VC-1 content from HD DVD and blu-ray discs.

Dedicated GPUs and operating systems that have full hardware video support are an absolute requirement for HD video.

Apple really is falling behind the curve in this sense. The X3100 has turned out to be a joke, offering no real world improvements over the GMA 950 and the drivers are terrible. Windows PCs that cost several hundred dollars less are coming with dedicated GPUs that give the ability to watch HD DVD and blu-ray content on their display or anywhere else.

 

Well i would never watch hd video on a macbook. Let alone hooking it up to a high def screen. I would buy a blue ray player for that. honestly HD content was meant to be played on a hd tv with a blue ray player or hd dvd player. Not a laptop player.

 

one thing i can say whether mac is more efficient or not is that it plays my netflix dvd's as well as my dell with a 256mb video card and that is why i got the macbook, for work and some relaxing time with music or movie..i am new to mac but so far, like it alot

 

Well, just because YOU wouldn't doesn't mean others wouldn't. Again, there is no reason NOT to have a dedicated GPU in the Macbook. I myself was very close to getting a Macbook for my brother, however I decided to go with a Dell instead because of the 8400m GS, which is still leagues better than the POS known as the X3100.

And that "HD was mean't to be played on an hd dvd player" comment is total BS. If you have a laptop with a dedicated GPU and can hook it up to an HDTV you now don't have to go and blow more money on a blu-ray or HD DVD player.

 

Well, its great that we are all different! Thank the Good Lord for that. Because, I myself found the use of the X3100 a selling feature an am quite pleased that its doesn't have the POS known as the 8400.

 

I think the dedicated graphics card doesnt make sense, I like the battery life on the macbooks. I used to have one and I think the dedicated card may hurt the battery, but then again I only owned one for about 4 weeks and ended up upgrading.. (love the pro's)

 

what is the current battery life if a Macbook? a dedicated graphics card can't be that big of an impact because my dell 17" with the 8600m gt can last over 4 and a half hours...

 

I get about 4-5 hours on my MacBook, at reasonable settings.

 

Well, we're very different people. As a gamer, I'd settle for mediocrity rather than the lowest of the low.

 

1. For games, having a non powerful 8400GS is better than nothing at all. Apple could make two versions of a new macbook to please more people.

2. When Montevina is launched in May, you will not need a dedicated graphics card for HD content, the X4500 will be fine.

 

Hi guys, I am about to buy a MB. Should I wait or just go ahead and get it?

 

if they went aluminum it'd be 13" MBP. there's a reason why they didn't go w/ aluminum and try to capture different market. i just hope apple comes out with 12" MBP.

 

What selling feature would that be? MPEG-2 features that are on-par with dedicated GPUs from the 90s? No hardware support for H.264, Apple's codec of choice? The inability to even run as good as the previous generation "weaker" GMA 950?

Thats not true at all. All nVidia and AMD/ATi mobile GPUs are capable of clocking down to 100MHz on the core and 100MHz memory. Battery life would be unaffected.

Somehow I doubt that. None of Intel's integrated GPUs have EVER lived up to their paper specifications. Look at the GMA 950. On paper it was better than some dedicated GPUs and (again, on paper) better than every integrated GPU of the time (minus video features). Yet it performed terribly. Now look at the GMA X3100. Intel promised performance on par with the GeForce4 MX 440 and it doesn't even come close to that.

Intel claims full hardware decoding for MPEG-2, VC-1, and H.264 with the X4500HD, but we'll see how the performance actually turns out. If Intel continues to live up to their reputation, it probably won't perform even half as well as it does on paper and the image quality will still look terrible compared to what ATI/AMD and nVidia offer.

That's not true at all. All of their computers except the MacBook are now aluminum. The MacBook Air is aluminum, the Mac Pro, the iMac, the MBP, even the Mac mini are all aluminum. They've even moved the iPods to aluminum fronts (iPod minis were always aluminum, and the 2G nano was all aluminum), and the back of the iPhone is aluminum. Aluminum is no longer reserved for the "professional" line. I just hope the new MacBooks are anodized aluminum, not the soft and easily damaged type that the MacBook Pro uses.

 

the aluminum/plastic offering existed before macbook line came out. remember powerbook and ibook? so no i don't think they're in the process of making everything aluminum. it's more of differentiating macbook from macbook pro.

 

And before that, the PowerBook was plastic while the iBook had a more durable plastic + rubber casing.

The iMac was previously plastic too. The eMac was plastic. Now the iMac is aluminum and glass, while the Mac mini is aluminum and plastic.

Honestly, how many Apple products are not aluminum now? All of their big ticket items are. Even the iPod shuffle is aluminum.

In the past, aluminum was reserved for the "pro" line. But that certainly isn't the case now. The iMac, Mac mini, and "non-Pro" MacBook Air are all housed in anodized aluminum. In fact, the MacBook Air actually has a stronger external case than the MacBook Pro! Even the MacBook's plastic is thicker and more durable than the soft feeling and easily dented MacBook Pro's aluminum housing.

Looking at Apple's own product line and their recent products show that any product can now have an aluminum case. It's only a matter of time before the MacBook and MacBook Pros step up to anodized aluminum like the MacBook Air.

 

i think you're missing my point completely. you're saying how aluminum is not exclusive to 'pro' line anymore. what i'm saying is apple _purposely_ used plastic to give macbook pro more sales because low price alone was/is the main selling for 13" macbook. does imac have high end counterpart? does mac mini have high end counterpart? does ipod have high end counterpart? now if they come out with super slim MBP to widen the gap between macbook perhaps we'll see aluminum macbook but until then i don't see why apple would revise its macbook and take away their ability to mark up prices for MBP.

 

What you're saying makes perfect sense, don't worry about that guy who's trying to act as if he is all knowing, I don't think he realizes that just because everything around something changes, doesn't mean that whatever is being surrounded needs to change too

 

Well, in my opinion, the MacBook is probably going to stay in its current material/design for now, since turning it aluminum would jeopardize MBA sales. I would like it to turn aluminum though...probably in a few months.

 

I don't think thats true at all. Many people, myself included, don't like the aluminum shell of the MacBook Pro. It feels weak, cheap, "cold", gets incredibly hot and damages far too easily. When I had decided to get my Mac, I was going back and forth between the MBP and MB and all I could think about with the MBP was how easily a slight bump could damage case.

I purposely chose the MB over the MBP because A) the price was more reasonable and B) the case was much stronger. Apple even marketed the MacBook and iBooks towards students and others in that market segment which would have used and abused the system on a daily basis.

However, if I had known about the awful build quality of the MBs and MBPs I wouldn't have gotten either one..

Uh.. yes? Do you even pay attention to Apple's own marketing? The iMac and mac mini are the "consumer" line and the Mac Pro is the "professional" line. But all are now anodized aluminum. Several keynote speeches in the past by Lord Jobs© have specifically stated what I just said. That the iMac is the consumer line, the Mac Pro is the professional. Therefore, the Mac Pro is the "high end" desktop.

If you look at the iPods, the trend was reversed until this generation. The "low end" iPods (mini, 2G nano, 2G shuffle) were all anodized aluminum while the "high end" iPod was soft plastic with the ugly stainless steel backing. Now if you look at the most high end iPod, the iPod touch, it actually features that same ugly (and easily dented I might add) stainless steel back and a cheap feeling case finish.

Well, their markup for the MBP is not based entirely on the aluminum case. Otherwise, why would they have been able to markup the PowerBooks over the iBooks in the past when the PowerBooks had standard plastic cases and the iBooks had more rugged plastic + rubber casing? As it stands now, if casing durability (and looks) played a role in price, then the MacBook and MacBook Air, both having more durable casing than the MBP, should be priced higher. But they're not because the artificially inflated price revolves around the more powerful GPU, more powerful CPU, bigger and better screen options, more ports, and the "Pro" designation.

In the past, aluminum casing might have been reserved for the "pro" computers. But looking at Apple's own line of products now and in the past couple of years, with their "consumer" computers and "low end" iPods getting the more durable anodized aluminum treatment before the "high end" products do.. theres no reason to believe at all that aluminum is reserved for the "pro" products. Especially when you have the lower end products getting the anodized aluminum treatment versus the easily damaged aluminum casing of the MacBook Pro.

Thats not true either. The MacBook Air is not a product designed to compete with the MacBook Pro or MacBook. It's designed to compliment another system. The MacBook is a fully functional all-in-one computer with many more features that a person can use as their primary and only computer. While the MacBook Air is missing many of those features (including optical audio output, upgradeable HDD and RAM) and even the software it comes with is designed to use resources from a primary and fully functional computer. Quite honestly, anyone who buys a MacBook Air just because it has an aluminum case is a fool. They need to buy it for what it is, not because it has a nice case.

The fact that the MacBook exists will ultimately hurt the sales of the MacBook Air. But that is pretty much the way it is designed to be. The MacBook Air is designed to be the second system or subnotebook for the traveller. Not a competitor to the MacBook or MacBook Pro. Moving the MacBook to the same anodized aluminum case will not have any affect on sales of Apple's other systems.

Moving the MacBook would have a positive effect on its own sales. You'll still have people who buy the MacBook Pro regardless, and you'll have people buying the new MacBook because it will have a nice looking and extremely durable new case (hell, I'd buy one if it meant the build quality issues of the current MacBook and MBP casing finally end) and you'll get those who wanted the MBP for its aluminum case but couldn't afford it.

Even if it did have a negative impact on MBP or MBA sales, you'd still get even more people buying Apple products than before. Higher sales of the lower priced product will have a better overall financial impact than mediocre sales of the high end product.

And really... if the aluminum casing is ALL the MacBook Pro had over the others.... then Apple is doing something seriously wrong and they need to rethink their business plan before it all comes crashing down.

Apple really needs to do something to revitalize the MacBook. How many people are going to continue to buy a MacBook with 1GB of RAM, an integrated GPU, and a DVD writer at $1299 ($1400 after taxes in most places) when there are countless Windows PCs for under $1,000 that come with 2-3GB of RAM, dedicated GPUs, and even HD disc readers? Apple might be enjoying good PC sales right now, but thats going to stop when a lot of new Mac owners are being smug with their PC owning friends and say "wow, 3GB of RAM and an HD DVD drive? that must have cost more than my Mac!" and their friend replies "no, it was only $900 at Staples" "But it runs Windows!" "But it lets me watch high def movies on my HDTV and play all the latest games, plus I can still burn DVDs, make home movies, organize my pictures and all that" "But.. I have iLife!" You can see where this is going..

 

Apple needs to slim it down a bit(I mean, the MBP is even thinner, come on), add in a dedicated card, make their bloody RAM less than 900% of the actual retail cost, and maybe add in an aluminum casing. But IDK I kind of like the glossy plastic on them. They look better than MBPs IMO.

 

As much as I loved my 12" Aluminium Powerbook G4, I just hated the fact that it sucked when it came to recieving strong WiFi signals due to the Aluminium case. Now we bought a MB for my wife and I absolutely love the design and build quality although not as tough as the MBP but still fast and great WiFi reception.

 

I personally feel the MacBook is a whole lot more durable than the MacBook Pro. The MacBook Pro, to me, feels weak. And seeing how easily it gets dented and all around destroyed, while the MacBook just keeps on ticking...........

 

I know what you mean. Although I have no dents or anything like that, it does have much more flex to it than plastic notebooks. Arguably the flex means it's less likely to crack in an impact, but more likely to dent. I guess it comes down to what you think is worse: dents or cracks.

 

Never before really gave this much thought, but maybe I'm gentler in handling my MBP than some of you folks. I have no scratches, dents or flex (none noticable to me, anyway). Also, the finish on the MB I once owned remained beautiful as long as it remained in my possession. When it went in for service on a problem with the screen, it came back with a perfect screen but with scuff marks and scratches all over the chassis. The entire machine was replaced as a result.

So . . . in conclusion (yeah, I know, I'm long-winded), I think these machines are equally well-made and will remain, for the most part, unscathed if cared for properly.

 

Not to change the subject (lol), but, BHD, the machine in your avatar is very good-looking, and I love that shade of blue. Someone here at NBR owns a Voodoo laptop (of all things) painted almost identically in that shade. Nice.

 

You don't have flex? Grab the edges of your screen and gently push one side forward and one side back. It's much easier to bend than plastic laptops screens are. That's what I meant by flex, and every MBP has it because it's made of aluminum which is more bendable than the plastic casing. Even if the table you're using it on is uneven and a corner sticks up, putting small pressure on it will easily bring it down too.

However: in an impact the flex will absorb a lot of the force instead of just shattering like plastic, which is a bonus. I'd rather have a laptop with a bit of flex to it and have it more resistant to serious damage than one that might crack or split apart from a knock. ( not that I'd *EVER* drop this thing, mind you)

 

Arquis, I'll take your word, but notice I said, "( none noticable to me, anyway).

That was meant as a CYA comment just in case someone posted a remark such as yours. To be quite honest, I probably don't use mine as much as most owners use theirs and just may not notice things others like yourself wouldn't miss.

/returns to old eMachines desktop and Ubuntu

 

yeah it's actually a little darker under normal lighting. it kinda reminds me of the BMW blue. i'd really like to see the Voodoo in this color although i think metallic red would look better.

 

lol, well, to be fair, the only reason I noticed the flex was that my MBP was shipped to me with an uneven base, and I had to use it like that for a couple of weeks before I was able to send it into repair. That lifted corner kept getting pushed flat with the weight of my hand

 

Couldn't find the thread or machine I had in mind, but while looking, found this.


@Arquis: I've heard of and seen pictures of that very issue several times, and the machines haven't always been Macs. Guess it's a fairly common issue.