The absolute disaster has finally been reviewed

yes ladies and gents. Apple has indeed shoved the I9 on a 25W TDP cooling solution and the I9 cannot even stay at base clocks.

Bravo Apple, you created the ultimate abomination of a notebook.

All the other thin and lights seem like god tier notebooks compared to this garbage.

 

On a scale of 0 to the i9 in the 2018 MBP, just how bad is the thermal throttling in the i9 Dell 9570? I had almost pulled the trigger on the i9 2018 MBP before then seeing that Apple was using a 25W TDP cooling solution for the i9. Should I switch to the i9-9570 now?

 

Thumbrule.

High end hardare + thin and light = RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.

It's nothing but scam. The I9 will run at clockspeeds which are absolutely garbage in every thin and light. Even 8750H doesn't run at full speed on thin and lights. Either you go for bulky with performance or thin and light with poop performance, you can't have both.

The best comproimise would be the Alienware with the I9, it's not that bulky and runs the CPU no problem.

 

Wrong.

Thin and lights can handle the I7 8750H in thin laptops. You dont have to buy GT62 like laptops to get full performance. Examples

-GE63(normal wieght and thickness)
-GM501
-OMEN 2018
-GP63

And to a lesser degree:
-Aero 15x
-RB2018

The alianware is not a "comproimise" its a 7.7Lb so called "laptop". A much better comproimise is the GE63.


all these laptops can hold 3.9Ghz across most applications(read as: not P95 for some of them) with a simple undervolt. You dont have to buy a 3KG "laptop" to get great performance

The I9 in the XPS will be a joke. But I would wait for reviews to test that.

 

Based on the information provided by the both of you, I am befuddled as to the ability of the 15 2018 MBP to run the 2.2Ghz 8750H at its turbo clock speed of 4.1 Ghz.

 

It can't run it at max turbo. It will throttle.

 

They should really stop putting chips ultra-high end (for laptops, at least) into thin and lights form factor devices.

 

Can you stop spreading BS and misleading people? Thank you very much.
Neither the Omen, Asus nor the GE 63 can sustain their 3.9ghz on full load. People who purchase notebooks for their CPU power are interested in some kind of rendering. We do not talk about gaming which consumes much less power, but actual full on, rendering. No thin and light can keep the 8750H on full 3.9ghz to my knowledge.

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about and should stop spreading nonsense.

@stonesrubber1 No way on this planet will the MBP run the 8750H @ full turbo. Hell would rather freeze before that happens.

 

Thin and lights can break the 1200 CB mark when undervolted.

A GP/GE63 can run the I7 8750H at 68c in BF1 with full turbo(cooler boost). You're telling me it can't do 3.9Ghz while rendering ?

And an aero 15X throttling to 3.5~3.7Ghz is a thousand times better than a 7.7 pound "laptop".

Remember that the aero 15x is the one Dave2D is using as a comparison.


So you think people who do rendering should go from 4.4Lb to 7.7lb to cut half a minute from the render time ? .

 

@Danishblunt @ahmad hendeh, thank you for the information provided. Is there any thin and light laptop that is capable of handing its processor @ full turbo?

 

Yes I'm telling you that. It's like saying look, a guy can lift 50KG, are you telling me he can't lift 150KG? That's outrageous!
Rendering is MUCH more heavy on the CPU and the powerlimit will kick in.

Also no, anyone who does video editing for a living cannot wait for a slow thin and light which derps around 2.8 - 3.1ghz to render a movie while an I9 notebook runs it MUCH faster @ 4.7ghz.

@stonesrubber1
Doesn't exist I'm afraid. Your best bet if you need to go for thin and light is a GE63, Aero 15x or something, at least you'll derp around 2.8 - 3.1ghz depending on your cooling at rendering times, it's still far from good tho, still better than MBPs.

 

Depends on applications. The GM501 can do that, the aero 15x will throttle a bit.


This is an aero 15x. The GM501 will do a bit better

 

Yeah I can see how it sustains the 3.9ghz clockspeed while rendering, oh wait....

Stop spreading lies.

 

2.8/3.1Ghz is not happening without the GPU being active. A much fairer estimate is 3.4Ghz on the aero, going up to 3.7Ghz when undervolted.

 

@stonesrubber1 The 8750H has a TDP of 45W and idea that a thin and light has the thermal dissipation power to maintain 3.9GHz on max load is just crap. Hell, I've seen huge ass laptops throttle with 45w CPUs. I'm 90% sure apple implemented a undervolt and obviously thermal throttling to you know, not be able to fry an egg on the thing
@Danishblunt feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

@Danishblunt, @ahmad hendeh I am very grateful for your valuable views. If no thin and light laptop can hold its processor @ full turbo, perhaps a slightly bulkier one can? Have you any suggestions as to which these laptops might be?

 

Isn't CB multi similar to rendering in stress ?

 

Ex: an Alienware 15 is available with an i5-8300 that runs at 4.0 Ghz @ full turbo. Surely, it can hold an i5 at full turbo?

 

See this list for CB multi. You can see there are 2 " thick" laptops here(Helios 500 and GT62). Getting rekt by thinner laptops.

 

Well it depends what segment you're into. As stated the best performance you can get is the I9 in the Alienware 15 while the notebook stays reasonably small. Other than that you could maybe look at the G504 from Asus, I don't know if it can sustain the turbo speeds, but it is slightly more bulky, you can do some research on it, even tho it's hard to find anything on it.

@ahmad hendeh

stop wasting our time with pointless firstrun CB scores. ty

 

Alienware mentions that its 15 is fitted with an i9 that boosts all the way upto 5.0 Ghz. Does the Alienware 15 hold the 8950 at 5.0 during video rendering? (when the GTX 1080 is also active)?

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/cty/pdp/spd/alienware-15-laptop?appliedRefinements=403

 

Thank you for sharing information about subsequent runs. Seems pertinent for buyers.

 

Thick helios 500


Thin GM501


@stonesrubber1 5 Ghz(maybe on one core only)is not happening on BGA. Rendering 4K in 7 minutes is amazing. Danishblunt would like you to believe that the perfect thick machine with the I7 8750H will do it in 3. That's not happening, at best you're saving 40sec since the aero 15x is not throttling that much to begin with.

You guys are downplaying laptops like the aero and the GM501 .
They can hold 3.9Ghz across almost all games. But in danishblunt eyes 3.7Ghz in rendering is not perfect, therefore sad excuses of a laptop like the GT62 are worth paying for.

They are called desktop replacement for a reason. They are not made for on the go usage.

 

No, the boost is only refering to single core performance (running 1 core), but it can (with some optimizations) run at mid 4ghzish (4.2 - 4.5ghz), which is very good. It would annihilate any thin and light you could find.

You need to repaste and unverolt it tho.

Thanks to @captn.ko I know that the Alienware only have severe problems when the thermal compound is not replaced with something decent. I assume you're interested in rendering since macbooks are mostly used for that, the Alienware with a GTX 1070. (tho to be noted he has the 17inch version)

Best price to buck ratio would be an Alienware with a 8750H + GTX 1060, if you don't feel like repasting etc. you can purchase it here:
http://www.hidevolution.com/custom-built-alienware-15-r4-w-gtx-1060-and-i7-8750h.html
Option Gelid will be more than sufficient, then do some undervolting and you got some serious

performance to boast with. If you want maxium performance tho I'd go for:
http://www.hidevolution.com/custom-built-alienware-15-r4-w-gtx-1070-and-i7-8750h-or-i9-8950hk.html
I'd go for liquid metal on this one tho.

Macbooks and Thin and lights will get absolutely annihilated by the AW notebooks. Performance isn't even comparable at this point.

Here captains cinebench run @ 4.7ghz:

Just to point out the sheer ignorance in your post, there is no way in hell that you can sustain 3.9ghz in rendering on any thin and light notebook. You keep on yapping how the thin and lights can sustain their turbo speeds with no proof whatsoever, not only that but you think that a 2.8 - 3.1ghz 8750H will not be notciably different in terms of rendering times compared to a full turbo 3.9ghz 8750H, which is downright ridicolous.

You clearly have no idea about rendering. Rendering a 4k uneditied video in 7 minutes is just a very small example and gives a rather poor idea on how it renders, once you edit an actual clip with effects etc the 5min 4k clip doesn't suddenly take 7 minutes but 2 hours to render, suddenly the gap between a castrated 8750H and a non castrated 8750H may very well be 20minutes, if doing even bigger work, we talk hours difference.

If you have no benchmarks or proof for your claims, then stop it, you're spreading misinformation nobody cares about. You want to believe that thin and lights magically can make a roughly 90W CPU run at 45W at full speed, but sadly reality is different.

 

Who are some of Alienware's competitors in the 15'6 form factor? Are there other 15'6s that can old 4.2-4.5 during rendering?

 

Modded P750TM would be an option as well.

But considering the poor support and mediocricy of the notebook itself, I would stick with alienware for now. Even tho you theoreticly can get a 8086K running in that notebook. (clevo, not alienware)

Oh and I'm not 100% sure about this one, but you could look into this as welL:
http://www.hidevolution.com/msi-we63-8sj-280.html

You could ask @Donald@HIDevolution about the performance on rendering and how well it holds it's clock. I'm personally not very confident that it can hold the speed at full turbo speed, but maybe there is a suprise.

 

The I7 8750H maxes out at 3.9Ghz, which a decent number of thin laptops can hold.

If you want performance and don't care at weight, go LGA.

thin laptops pack pne hell of a bunch for their size. Look at the GS65 as an example, same dimensions as the XPS but blows the XPS out of the water with rendering. I'll compare the razer blade 2018 dimensions with the MBP 2018

13.98' × 9.25' × 0.68'
13.75' × 9.48' × 0.61'

The RB2018 would blow it straight out of the water.

@Danishblunt proof to me that the aero 15x holds 2.8Ghz in rendering. You're just talking non sense.

The highest holy version of the "non castrated" I7 8750H can score 1280 in CB multi. If we put a "castrated" STOCK thin I7 8750 laptop that's MILES ahead in portability we are losing 8% performance. Undervolt and that gap won't exist

I have a friend of mine who will run CB on his "castrated" GS65. Let's see if your 2.8Ghz claim holds.

 

Can you stop trying to convince a guy who is only interested in CPU performance to buy notebooks who have a castrated CPU? Seriously you have no idea how ridicolous you are at the moment, we don't talk gaming, where the CPU can run at 3.9ghz due to low wattage usage on some mdoels, we talk rendering, 100% usage all the time, where it needs every watt it can get.

 

This guy was considering a MBP. IDK but something tells me he isn't intrested in so called 7.7LB laptops

And stop calling laptops like the GM501 "catsrated"

 

He is clearly concnerned about the performance issues and due to the fact that he asked for more information and alternatives and did not jump at the thin and lights the moment i mentioned them, showcases that he's a person that values time and performance over lightness, while he's still looking for a happy medium. He isn't even interested in 8750H all that much since he even asked which notebooks can sustain the same clockspeeds as the AW.

Stop it.

@michealscott
Well sorta, the 8750H needs around 70-90W depending on silicon, undervcolt etc. to run at full 3.9ghz on load @ all cores. So even 45W which most notebooks castrate the 8750H to will run poorly if it doesn't thermal throttle when doing some serious work. Honestly I don't think apple castrated the TDP limit further, we are actually looking at a full thermal throttle problem.At this point, they are making sure people know, that they design their notebook to die.

 

If he doesn't care about weight at all he should skip BGA(I9 8950HK) go straight to LGA. But he didn't confirm that

However stop ****ting on thin and lights. Most of them don't suffer from that much throttling to begin with. And they match thick 8750H laptops.

The issue should be I7 8750H VS I9 8950HK VS I7 8700K and how much performance the guy needs against how much battery life/ portability he's losing. Not THIN VS THICK.

 

There is no reason to go to 8700K since it's the same performance as the 8950HK. The limiting factor is thermals when talking about 8700K vs 8950HK, whatever notebook has the better cooling wins.

I'm not "***ting" on anything, I'm stating facts, you're the one trying to gloryfy thin and lights because your delusion won't allow for reality to kick on. I don't care what you think about thin and lights, neither do other people, all I care about are facts and if you don't like it, then move on with your heating plate what you call notebook and play your games on it.

I don't even know why you want to make this a "thin vs thick" debate, because it clearly isn't about that, it's about that all thin and lights including other thicker notebooks, simply castrate the CPU to the point where it isn't even a disgussion about 8750H vs 8950H, it's a discussion about a 8750H vs 8750H vs 8950HK vs 8950H, despite all having the same processor, the performance is very different. The discussion is, that notebooks, especially the thin and light segment are offering 8750H's which are inferior to other 8750H's, the thread is about how Apple made the most extreme example of this practice, a 8750H from a thin and light such as gigabyte will destroy the I9 in the macbook, the 8750H in the alienware will destroy the 8750H from the gigabyte and the I9 from the alienware will destroy the 8750H from the alienware.

On your extremely odd path to gloryfy thin and lights you have completely missed the point, trying to argue for something that never was a discussion to begin with while also trying to talk about things you have no clue about. We are not talking about performance on thin and lights, we are not talking about if the performance is ok for thin and lights, we are also not talking about price to performance ratio, we are talking about this practice, where we are getting to a point where we literally cannot look at specs anymore to determine the performance of the notebook because now 8750H isn't = 8750H, nor is a GTX 1070maxQ = GTX 1070MaxQ.

Now people have to ask what notebook doesn't castrate my hardware and lets it run at full speed.

 

The only thing you're stating is BS.

"The issue should be I7 8750H VS I9 8950HK VS I7 8700K and how much performance the guy needs against how much battery life/ portability he's losing. Not THIN VS THICK." I said it should be I7 8750H VS I9 8950HK, not thin vs light. Are you too deluded to read ?

Whaaaaat. The I7 8750H in the aero 15x isn't similar to the one in the proper thick laptops ?. Don't make me laugh, I fully support this argument against an XPS or a MBP. But against the aero this is staright up made up anti thin delusion.

On the CPU side the I7 8750H in the aero 15x is the exact same as the one in the GT63. The difference between them is margain of error AT MOST.

The last of your argument about Max-Q is true.

Pieces of **** like the XPS and MBP are giving the thin and lights a bad name. laptops like the aero 15x pack on hell of a punch,near full power I7 8750H + only 10% below a 1070N with a chassis similar to the MBP.

I am not glorifying here those are facts. It's a fact that the aero 15x has a similar chassis to MBP 2018 but destroys it in rendering. And it's a fact such combination of portability/power is unprecedented.

 

Unlike you I have proven to be correct.
Nobody cares about your nonfactual delusion which has been proven to be wrong a million times.

I won't even bother to reply to the rest of your post since you again are completely unable to understand what this thread is about and talking off topic about stuff you clearly have no clue about is as pointless as telling a brick something about math.

 

Feel free to believe that.

 

Asus GM501

Souce

Gigabyte aero 15x:

Source

MSI GP 63:

Source

Meanwhile your proof:


Guess wer're done here. So while you spread my thread full of deluded feeces I would appreciate if you at least attempt to proof anything you claim.

 

Done ? we have only just begun !

First, 3.6Ghz average on the aero 15x is great. Not bad or castarted

Secondly, The alianware you were reccomending gets rekt by "castarted" I7 8750H.



And before you start talking about first run CB thing

Glorius I9


Castrated I7 8750H(aero 15x)


The aero 15x is performing like a I7 8750H should. ~1150 first run and ~1100 subsequent runs

The 4Lb aero 15x is WINNING against the 8lb alianware.

As for the GP63, it suffers from a bug in the bios that drops frequncy to 800mhz hence the low scores. The bug was fixed along time ago.
See bob of all trades review



See 13:55


You also need to realise an important factor. If the laptop can hold around 3Ghz without an UV, it can do ~3.9 with it.

Not all thick laptops are high and mighty. And not all thin laptops are MBP level of ****.

And BTW, the I7 8750H throttles by design. So 3.9Ghz with no undervolt in CB is not happening.

 

Your lack of knowledge and incapability of reading my posts is disturbing. As I already said the moment I suggested the Alienware, repaste is an absolute must.

The thermal issues that arises from the notebook when running stock thermal paste is absolutely insane. The heatsink literally stops working when you get the alienware out of the box. The shared heatsink design will use the GPU and CPU as heatsinks which is hilarious and sad at the same time.


This is the disaster you're getting when you purchase an alienware with stock thermal paste. Most notebooks get better when you repaste it, alienwares heatsink literally is disfunctional when running on stock thermal paste and works after you repasted it. I've had countless people I've told about this and after a repaste every single one of them had much better temperatures, unlike thin and light garbage
this is a thermal issue, not castration of the CPU.


I don't know why you keep on posting videos about stuff that has nothing to do with the topic. I asked you to provide proof that any thin and light can run stable 3.9ghz on rendering. I'm not interested about half assed gaming benchmarks, not interested in any weird BIOS updates that fixes some throttling dip issues, not interested in firstrun cinebench scores, not interested in anything but the thing I asked you to prove. If you can't get out of here.

 

The aero 15x in the link you provided runs at 3.6Ghz stock. An undervolt will raise that assuming no thermal limitations(LM)

"the frequency of the Aero 15X generally varies between 2.6 and 3.9 GHz with an average of 3.6 GHz."
Now the burden of proof is on you. Find me the the thick I7 8750H machines that don't throttle even a little bit after the first run without an undervolt.

Can you aslo expalin to me why the helios 500(S TIER COOLING)
is also throttling, COULD IT BE THE 45W TDP ?!?




And from experience the I7 8750H boost depends on silicon lottery. My friend GS65 holds 3.75Ghz stable in CB while his aero 15x does 3.6Ghz(all undervolted). Unless the manufacturer goes out of there way to overclock it(allow it draw more power than 45W,) getting 3.9Ghz in CB is not guaranteed on either thin nor thick laptops. It depends on whether the laptop UV is sufficent to keep it below 45W at max load.

 

@stonesrubber1

This is a comparison between a 4.3Ghz I7 8850H(same as a stock I9 8950HK) and the I7 8750H(GM501). Both undervolted.





Note: You can see from the GM501 1236 score that's its running at 3.9Ghz or very close to it.

OMG, how could the rendering difference be this vast. Who would have thought that the castrated I7 8750H would be this bad in rendering ?. Thanks, @Danishblunt you saved the guy a couple of years of waiting for the mere cost of carrying a tank on his back.

 

I'll repeat myself, the way you showcase your lack of knowledge and present to us how much you literally are unable to comprehend the issue at hand, is disturbing.

You still won't prove that your thin and lights run at 3.9ghz turbo. You didn't link what models are running the 8750H, and the 8850H, nor did you provide us with anything showcasing that the CPU is running at full speed. If anything you have showcased the pure delusion you call proof by showing us that if you try and overclock the 8850H it will perform worse than stock due to powerlimit and thermal issues.

So yeah... congratz?

You are unintentionally proving my point,by showcasing that the 8850H runs so bad on whatever notebook you show, that when you OC it, it will thermal and or power throttle down to worse than stock, which I'm not gonna lie, is hilarious.

 

The I7 8850H is in an Arous X5. Stock TDP, how a I7 8850H should behave.



Use your intelligence for a bit. 1236 is not possible without 3.9Ghz

All BGA 8TH gen cpu throttle without UV. Try holding the thick pieces of trash like the helios 500/GT63/ALIANWARE R4 to the same standards you hold the thin ones. And your bias will show clearly.

Little to No diffrence in handbrake or adobe. Yet somehow we're supposed to believe that thin laptops suck at rendering ? Give me a break.

 

I might sound like a broken record at this point but whatever:




Please proceed showcasing your intelligence by proving me right. You totally donn't look silly right now. While you're at it, provide us with proof why thin and lights can compete with actual non throttling notebooks.

 

All three within margain of error. Source :

 

right, doing 2 rendering tests while in all 2 tests the OC does worse than 8750H.

Might as well go for 2ghz since IPC suddenly doesn't matter in your world.

Can you stop?? It's extremely cringey.

 

I love how jarrod's Tech is a legit source when ****ting on clevo, but when we don't like the results the guy credibility = 0 to you.

Let's be GENEROUS here and say that the I9 8950HK without thermal throttling(which tanks like AW R4 fail to do) can do it in 6:50. Thats a whopping 1 minute faster !

I am not going to bother with this anymore. it's like arguing with a wall.

 

You literally showcased us how OC throttles the CPU even further, then you claimed that the OC was margin of error, then you provided me with a video where it debunkes your "margin of error" even further.



"margin of error"

Thank you for realizing that you're wrong hence staying out of my thread. I would aprreciate if you would stop spreading misinformation and misguide people into buying something they didn't want to sign up for.

 

@Papusan brainwash in the community is DEEP

woah, so now you are correcting them boys just how we use to correct you in the past. you are on the right track me boy danishblunt

on another note, thin and lights sure can handle 8750H, at a fraction of it's performance.

 

1100 on CB isn't a "fraction of performance".(let alone that UV ones can get ~1240)

By thin and lights I am not meaning MBP pr an XPS. The MacBook pro will probably hold ~1.6Ghz under stress. The issue is whether an I7 8750H in a GM501 will perform below one in a laptop like the Helios 500 and the GT62 and the answer to this question is no.

By DEFULT the I7 8750H power throttles(45W). UV can remove or vastly reduce this throttling, depending on silicon lottery and not chassis size.

This is an aero 15x beating the helios 500 in CB multi.


Aero 15x


Helios 500


Do you want to convince me that the helios 500 has worse cooling than the aero ?

BGA I9 laptops :

Arous X9 : only decent one, can't overclock probably.

GT62 : VERY high temps, no throttling

AW R4: 100C TEMPS, HEAVY throttling.

Any one who wants desktop performance should skip BGA all together and go LGA.

 

are you advercating that a 8750H will run at full turbo speeds at 45watts?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

Please stop.