Tempted but still lot of doubts

Probably i am the n user making this kind of thread but i am in the need of answers (yes i have read the stickies )
First of all i need a new laptop, i have been waiting for a while, but now i really need a new one.
This would be my second laptop, my previous one was an Asus with XP PRO, i have been very happy about that, never ever a single problem in 3 years.
In the last months i had the chance to work with a iMac, actually a old one, i had several issues with Safari, but installing Firefox solved them all, and i experienced how easier, more intuitive and in overall better is MAC OS compared to windows.
So now i am tempted to buy a Macbook Pro, but still i have some doubts that don't make me sleep:

1) My biggest concern is the heating problem, the ideal laptop for me should be quite and cool, unless running very heavy applications, i wasn't able to figure out if the overheating issue in the MBP happens only when running windows or almost at any time; is this problem going to be fixed with a future software update (i have read that using a software to control the fan partially resolves this issue)?

2) Even if probably i wouldn't have that much time, i'd like to play moderately with the mac, so i don't need a hardcore machine but i wonder if most games (let's say i'm not interested in the most recent ones) are at least playable on a mac running windows

3) I know that in october is coming out leopard, and actually i'm looking forward to that, but in case i buy a macbookpro now, how much would it cost to upgrade the OS? Would it be worth waiting for the time (early or late october?)?

4) Right now the alternative to the MPB would be a HP 8510p, since it's a business class machine, good built quality with all the features i need, but of course without MAC OS X

5) Is the hardware configuration going to worsen the heating problem for example getting the 2.4 processor and the 7200 rpm hard disk or not at all?

Thank you in advance for your answers and your help

 

1) The Macs are very quiet, and usually the heat issues are overstated. Yes, the Macs do get hot, but not hot enough to damage the internal components. The Macs do get hotter when running Windows natively; this most likely has to do with fan speeds not being adjusted properly in Windows correctly. SMCFanControl, available on OS X, allows you to configure fan speeds, and can drastically lower the temperatures (my MacBook is 10 C cooler than usual and the fans are still very quiet).

2) The MBP will play games fine, providing you run it in Boot Camp and get the right graphics drivers.

3) Leopard has no "upgrade" version, its one version and its a full version. It will cost $129 U, and is expected to be $69 US with Student Discount. Cheap .

4) Er...I don't see a question in there .

5) The 7200 RPM hard drive, a bit, but I don't think so about the processor.

 

You seem intrigued by Mac OS X and BTW only the "M" is capitalized (believe me it's for a reason). Think MAC truck, it's spelled with all caps.
At any rate, I'd say definitely get a Macbook Pro, if you played on an older iMac you will see a vast difference in speed and overall operation and a lot less maintenance in terms of no registry to deal with and no upkeep of antivirus.

As far as the so-called "heat issue" or "heat problem". It's only a problem if you accept it as one. The best way to deal with is just accept it. The MBP does get quite warm when running Windows, go figure but it does run cooler and has better battery life when running Mac OS X for the obvious reasons.

You can download SMC fan control and it helps greatly to keep the computer even cooler under OS X. I'm not sure what's the equivalent under Windows.
The MBP uses passive cooling which uses the metal casing to cool the computer, again you will have to either accept it or don't buy but that's a small thing so let the heat concerns go.

Safari runs very well so maybe you were running an older version but I like Firefox at times as well. Leopard's version of Safari surfs better on certain MS Explorer websites so no worries there.
Leopard will be most likely available at the end of October so if you need your notebook now then get it. You can get Leopard for $129 U.S or $69 student discount.

Again, as for the heat issues, let it go, it's inevitable. Processors have been getting faster and faster and the heat has remained either the same or slightly lessened.

 

I'm not sure about the capitalization but it's Mack trucks... with a "k".

 

I'm defintiely going bac to full mbp mode when three things happen (most important to least):

1) Leopard comes out (Oct right?)
2) either 8800 or 2900 vid card (hmm, next update?)
3) penryn (next update).

My only dilemma is that i love the way the current mbp looks and concerned that they won't be able to sport a hotter vid card in the current chassis, which means it will probably be in the updated chassis some time next year. And while some have suggested only a slightly different look, I keep thinking how much the last ones change from the current, and can't fathom how they'd improve on the design...though it's apple, ya never know.

 

I dont think you would see a 8800 or a 2900 vid card in a MBP in near future. Primary reason is as you say current chassis wont be able to support the heat generated by these cards (too thin i would say). Also, Apple doesnt make these systems for gaming (look at even iMacs), and for all other applications a 8600m GT is good enough.

 

Ya, and for that matter, I've never seen a high end GPU in a mid size laptop. Part of the reason is heat.. and the other part is the physical size of the gpu and board, plus heat sink etc. When I bought mine, it had one of the fastest midrange gpu's you could buy ( ati 9600 gddr3 ). On the off chance that apple finds a way to integrate a high end gpu, you can bet your bottom dollar it will only be available in the 17". It would be nice if they competed toe to toe with desktops, but I don't see how that can happen with a desktops superior cooling room. Yet laptops are amazing considering they draw far less power. Anyhow, Don't hold your breath on the 8800. I would sooner hope for Penryn, and yet.. I don't think that's worth the wait either.

 

Let me address the heating/noise question in a different manner:

The MBP is an incredibly silent machine. At the default settings (2k rpm fans), it is completely inaudible. However, this also means the MBP is a very hot machine (since the passive cooling system tends to keep the fans at 2k most of the time).

When people say "heating's not an issue", most of the time they mean that the heat will not dangerously damage your hardware in a way that'll significantly affect the useful life of the product. However, the MBP can get hot enough that it's very uncomfortable (if not hazardous) to expose bare skin to it (i.e. on your bare lap, sometimes your palms (the left side especially).

As mentioned above, most of the heating "problems" for light-medium use can be readily resolved by using smcFanControl to increase the minimum RPM of the fans. However, keep in mind that this is at the expense of noise.

In other words, at 3k RPM, the fans are audible. Past 4k rpm, they'll be audible enough to be heard through any music you have playing if you really listen hard. At 5k and 6k, they'll be heard even through gaming. This isn't to say that the MBP has loud fans - they're actually some of the quietest I've ever encountered. However, they're certainly audible, and if your intent is to keep the laptop very cool, then you'd probably need to turn them up higher than you would otherwise. Therefore, if a good heat/noise ratio is what you're looking for, the MBP might not be able to meet your expectations.

You can get away with keeping the fans low enough to be inaudible and still keep your CPU temps below 40 and bottom enclosure temps below 30 (which would make it very comfortable to use on your lap), but only for very light use in a well-cooled room.

However, keep in mind that the fans will have little effect on the heat of the HDD - the 7200RPM HDD which rests on the left side of the palm rest will always feel significantly warmer than the right side (beyond 45 degrees certainly). For example, with decent fan RPM, the right side can feel icy cold to the touch, whereas the left will still feel rather hot. I don't have a 5400RPM HDD to compare this with, but I would expect it to have similar results, if not quite to the same degree.

Finally, under heavy use, including gaming, even keeping fans running at 6k RPM will still bring your CPU and GPU temperatures up past 70-80. You will not be able to use the MBP on your laptop in these situations with any degree of comfort - but this is true of most laptops.

 

Heat wise I agree with most folk. The macbook pro I own (7200 drive) runs hot - and the fans do noticeably kick in if I'm playing WoW. I've got an ordinary fan on my desk and with it it's enough to keep the machine cool. I also tend to game with the back of the laptop propped up on a book - so it's not resting flat on the desk and has a bit more room for air to circulate.

The case is metallic which means you're going to notice it on your lap a lot more than one with a plastic case.

That said as a very long term PC user (and microsoft employee ironically enough) I can't recommend the Macbook pro highly enough. The operating system is a joy to use, the actual case construction is top notch - far above my GF's dell 1210 (an unfair comparison perhaps but there it is) and bar a few minor program quibbles (such as a lack of a few pieces of 3d software I use for work regularly) the software I can get for it has been great.

Recommended

 

I opted for the 5400 RPM HDD just due to the heat produced, I don't normally use it on my lap.. As it's a notebook and distinctively different then laptops which are pretty much a phased out ideal. However I have to say I can comfortably place it on my lap wearing thin materials as long as I am not using it for games like wow or dvd burning

 

Thanks everybody for the answers.
The overheating issue is still the only factor making me hesitate, otherwise the MBP would already be mine
Of course i don't expect the machine to stay cool under heavy duty, like gaming and such, but at least during regular stuff, like internet browsing etc.
I found out i have a friend who owns a MPB so i'll see in person if i can get along well with this issue or not

 

There really isn't an overheating issue, or at least one that I have experienced. My MBP stays at ~40-45c (CPU temp) under minimal load which is really about as good as you can expect from any laptop. The palm rests never get to the point where they're uncomfortable, even under heavy load, and the bottom of the case only gets hot while gaming and the like. My brother has a 12'' XPS and his doesn't run noticably cooler (idle).

I have noticed that while running windows under bootcamp the cpu temp idles anywhere from 5-10c higher. I don't really know what causes this, but I would assume that it will be fixed somewhere down the line, possibly with the Leopard release. Bootcamp is still technically in it's Beta stage if you didn't know.