Switchable Graphics in Windows 7 bootcamp?

Is it possible yet to enable switchable graphics if you boot into windows 7 with boot camp? Some kind of hack?

If not, is it possible to turn off the high end gpu totally to make it run cooler in windows 7?

 

No, you can't switch to the IGP from the GPU in Windows 7 (or any version of Windows, bootcamped) running on a MBP. Since your can't switch to the IGP, there is no way to turn off the dedicated GPU without completely killing the graphics all together (which would be entirely pointless).

 

KornChild is right. I never understood WHY Apple disabled switchable graphics for Win 7, but they did. *le sigh*

 

Can you underclock your dedicated gpu so it runs cooler as a poor mans switchable graphics?

 

I haven't come across anyone successfully doing this. I believe I cam across one thread where someone was running some cracked drivers but they were experiencing glitchy performance (at best). Then again, that was when the MBP line used Intil+Nvidia graphics.

On a side note, I believe Apple locked out the IGP option in Windows just to provide a better experience under OS X. Apple's Windows drivers for their hardware aren't the best. The trackpad drivers are another prime example since they absolutely suck. That is why I actually like running Windows 7 now through Parallels 7 since it provides a more fluid experience than what Apple does with their bootcamp drivers. The trackpad works as it should and I believe those with IGP+GPU options can even use just the IGP through Parallels (I am using Parallels 7 with my 13" MBP and that only has the Intel HD 3000 and things run fine including 1080p HD video with proper surround sound output).

 

Does your machine run cool under your virtual machine, or does the additional overhead heat it up similar to what your high end gpu would do?

 

I agree. I was surprised at how poorly certain things worked in Boot Camp. And I think that there's probably some truth to the theory that Apple deliberately made the Windows experience bad to help keep OSX users loyal first and foremost to OSX.

 

I don't know I don't think ATI has switchable drivers out there and I'm sure optimus has licensing costs.

Any other switchable graphics solution would have to be developed by Apple themselves. They didn't "disable" drivers because either you have to develop those yourself and/or you have to use 3rd party drivers. In this case the ATI drivers don't exist and optimus has licensing. They can't use the OSX drivers ~ drivers interface with the OS so they are custom for an OS. They don't directly interface with the hardware (correct me if I am wrong) but at least part of them is OS based for sure. I think they assume the #1 thing people are doing on the Windows side is gaming in which case you need the dGPU. The only other things I do on Windows side is run FPGA development programs and software like Altium and Solidworks, which all benefit from a dGPU.

The only thing the direct GPU takes away is battery life.

 

ATI does offer switchable graphics: AMD Switchable Graphics Technology

And while it doesn't mention the 6750M on that page, I'm pretty sure that the Samsung Series 7 Chronos with the 6750M has switchable graphics. (Still searchign to make sure).

 

If this is true then Apple is only taking cues from Microsoft who jacks up the Mac community with their dumbed down Mac Office suite in order to entice Windows users to stay on the PC and we actually pay for the same amount for Mac Office as the Windows version, you don't pay extra for Bootcamp.

 

Even if it does that doesn't mean Samsung didnt' develop their own solution for it. Or that it doesn't cost money.

Apple in house developed the switchable graphics on the MBPs up to this point.

Bootcamp has gotten a lot better. The function keys and everything work, its pretty much almost native at this point. The lack of switchable graphics just means your battery life is down from 7 hours to like 3-4 hours.

 

"But Joey did a bad thing too" doesn't get anyone out of trouble when my kid does something bad, and it doesn't make it any less annoying when a giant corporation does something crappy.

For what it's worth, I don't think the OSX version of Word is deliberately hamstrung. I actually like it better than Word 2010 for Windows 7, which is absolutely the worst version of Word I've used in a decade. Word 2003 for Windows XP > Word for OSX > Word 2010 for Win 7.

But regardless of what other companies are doing, Apple aren't amateurs. If they don't put "beta" on a feature, I expect that feature to be the finished product. When they advertise their laptops can run Windows through boot camp, and they don't say "boot camp is still in beta, by the way," I expect the flippin' trackpad to work, the function keys to work, and any switchable graphics the laptop has to work. I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.

 

You are not unreasonable. Apple should take their responsibility and provide functional drivers. It's disrespectful to their customers that want to use Boot Camp, just finding out that trivial things do not work and that they have to wait years for things to get fixed, if ever.

Apple could update their BIOS emulation to support a toggle of integrated/discrete graphics at reboot via the Boot Camp Control Panel. Or better yet, they could comply to the UEFI standard making Windows bootable via EFI instead. Would fix the AHCI issue as well.

 

I haven't really noticed any extra heat or fan noise when operating my MBP with its lid open (i.e. like normal). It heats up faster when it is in clamshell mode running Windows 7 through Parallels 7 but that is normal when operating when the lid closed. Almost everything makes it heat up faster when in clamshell mode.

That's just it though, Apple never said "you can run Windows perfectly on a Mac without any issues." They simply state the following:

"Have a Windows application you need to use once in a while? No problem. Every new Mac lets you install and run Windows at native speeds, using a built-in utility called Boot Camp."

That is a correct statement and I am not sure why it is Apple's responsibility to support a 3rd party OS beyond what they already provide. Every Intel Mac out there can run Windows though there might be some limitations. It still doesn't stop anyone from running Windows, it just won't be as good of an experience as running Apple's OS (which is understandable). Apple already went above and beyond by providing basic driver support for Windows and a utility that will let you install it. They could have kept customers locked out and forced them to continue to use virtual machines. Instead Apple provides the necessary driver support to get Windows up and running without any slowdown. I can understand why people want better Windows driver support from Apple but that is asking a lot from a company that already provides some level of support from a competing OS.

It is evident that bootcamp is no longer a beta and it does exactly what Apple advertises. It may not be a perfect experience but Apple never said it was. They are already doing more than they have to by releasing Windows drivers and letting people install it on their Macs. Any further support and you start getting into OS X territory and that is something that Apple doesn't want to do.

So I can understand why it is annoying that some things don't fully work but I also don't see what the big deal is unless you are actually running Windows as the primary OS (then you shouldn't have purchased a Mac to begin with). Bootcamp provides enough support to get Windows up and running without major issues.

 

Apple says:

I guess it all depends on whether you consider your multitouch trackpad part of your Mac. Or if you consider the function keys part of your Mac. Or if you consider the switchable graphics that Apple advertises the laptop having as part of your Mac. Or hell, when I first installed boot camp, if you considered the trackpad AT ALL (not just its multitouch capability) part of your Mac, because the trackpad didn't work at all for months (it would make the pointer move, but not in any predictable or usable fashion, even just for pointing-and-clicking).

I consider the trackpad on my Mac part of my Mac. I consider the function keys on my Mac keyboard part of my Mac.

And I think it's misleading for them to say "you can run compatible versions of Microsoft Windows on an Intel-based Mac" without mentioning that some of the hardware of that Mac won't work when you're in Windows. I mean, if all you're saying is that "well, Windows is running, that's all they promised," what if the keyboard didn't work in Boot Camp Windows, and you had to plug in an external keyboard? Would that satisfy you as Apple living up to what it promised to deliver when it told you you could run Windows on your laptop?

 

The function keys work in my part of bootcamp. They don't work on like 2008 MBP's bootcamp I think, but I don't think many computers had function keys back then (at least laptops).

Also the touchpad works fine, it works better then a lot of Windows touchpads. I have multi-touch, you can't expect OSX like functionality in Windows because the OS is not written directly for the hardware, and with trackpads that makes a difference.

I think bootcamp has gotten a lot better then its initial release. I think you had an older MBP, the current bootcamp on current MBPs is a lot different. All function keys work etc.

Also what Apple means is that you can run programs at full functionality with 0 performance loss, not that all the extras you get in OSX (like function keys which are a software/driver deal and not an inherent part of your hardware or OS) and trackpad(Same thing). And no switchable graphics is not a performance loss, (for running programs). All that line you quoted is talking about is the inefficiency of running a virtual machine like WINE or Parallels and how bootcamp avoids that.

And like I said before, switchable graphics aren't easy to implement, it requires effort and cash and I don't think there is really a point for it. Especially considering the 6750m is not on the listed of supported cards for switchable graphics so they would have to make their entire own implementation of it. Which is what they did for OSX, there is no reason for them to do it for Windows.

 

Apple advertises that its laptop has a multifunction trackpad that can do certain functions. It advertises that it has switchable graphics. It advertises that it can run Windows. It does not, to my knowledge, advertise that the first two don't work at the same time the third does. To the contrary, the Boot Camp FAQ not only fails to mention this, but it implies that it DOES have switchable graphics and complete trackpad support:

Boot Camp 4.0, OS X Lion: Frequently asked questions Without a disclaimer for the trackpad driver saying "reduced functionality," and without a disclaimer for the integrated graphics driver saying "not on machines with a dedicated GPU," are you really telling me that isn't deceptive?

 

I think they just mean if you have the HD3000 (i.e MBP13) only you can use that in bootcamp.

The trackpad isn't reduced functionality, you just can't implement a trackpad in Windows as well as you can in OSX. It is better then the trackpad on like the original Envy. The ENVY doesn't have an advertisement that says "terrible trackpad". The trackpad is useable, it just isn't as good as the OSX version.

Like I said before running Windows is different then having the switchable graphics solution built in.

Also advertising is for a purpose, and that purpose is to sell.....

Do you complain every time a product tells you it is the best, most revolutionary, or fastest? Those are all in the same vein. The MBP has switchable graphics in certain conditions and those conditions are OSX. You can get 8 hours of battery life in OSX and you can not get that in Windows regardless of a switchable graphics solution. That isn't false advertising, it just means you need certain conditions to be met for that particular feature.

 

Once you've found out from third parties that they don't have switchable graphics in Windows, you can deduce that's technically accurate...but without any clarifying language and any statement on Apple's own FAQ that there's no switchable graphics in Windows, don't you think that advertising that that they DO have switchable graphics and can run Windows is going to mislead people? Remember that a lot of people just rely on Apple to tell them what an Apple product can and can't do; most people don't go snooping third-party websites for that info.

The trackpad can do X and Y and Z in OSX, but can only do X and Y in Windows. How is that not "reduced functionality" compared to OSX? They say they've got an "Apple trackpad" driver, but they don't say that it's not the same driver features-wise as the Apple trackpad driver for OSX.

If all of this sits just fine with you, we're at an impasse, because it definitely doesn't sit well with me to tell people that your hardware has features A, B, and C, and that your hardware can run Windows, but NOT to tell people that B and C don't work with your hardware while running Windows. I think Apple owes it to buyers to explain on the official Boot Camp FAQ some veeeeery frequently asked questions about boot camp, namely those about switchable graphics (the single most frequently-asked question about Boot Camp on these forums) and trackpad functionality.

 

False. There is a third party driver for the trackpad, called TrackPad++, that behaves better than Apple's own driver.

 

yes but as you said, third party driver, and not Apples own bootcamp driver which is in marketing literature and their own FAQ. if this driver was included, many less people would complain.

 

Okay, if you want your argument to be taken fairly you need to understand both sides rather than working your argument to keep Apple the bad guy. Face it, the Mac community has gotten burned by Microsoft much more than anything Apple has done to the Windows community, it's been going on since Microsoft pulled I.E. from the Mac and that was when Active X was dominating the internet.

Now back to the situation, I will agree with you about Mac Office, (especially 2011) I never said Office for Mac sucked, in fact it's the best version to date. I said the suite was dumbed down and it is. Ever notice that One Note doesn't ship with the Mac version or any of the extra business tools on the Windows version such as Visio, Sharepoint Workspace, Infopath and Project don't ship with the "business version" of Mac Office 2011? Yeah, and the Mac version is the same price, wonder why??

If you're really going to make Apple into this "bad guy" just because they won't dive deep into making the FREE Bootcamp'd Windows experience perfect then maybe you shouldn't be wasting your hard-earned cash on Apple.

 

Does it behave as well as the OSX driver? Because I've never used a trackpad that behaves that well. Granted I'm not saying the Windows trackpad is the best possible, BUT it is as good as many Windows trackpads if not better.

@Mitlov, I don't know, I've neve seen a company advertise all of the negatives of their products on a page, I don't understand how you expect Apple too. They are just saying you can play games at full hardware speed in Windows, not much else. My MBP runs Windows great, I just dont' have switchable graphics. Well a lot of Windows computers don't have that, so I don't really mind. If I got all of my information about a product from the person selling it to me, I think that would be my fault for not doing external research. Its not like gaming laptops have a warning that says "Large amount of heat generated from the side of the laptop" on the product page.

IF this was just a case of Apple purposely soiling the Windows experience there would be an open source website where you could download switcheable graphics drivers, but there isn't. This just further goes to show, its expensive. Maybe sometime in the future they'll implement some solution, but as of right now I don't think their gimping it on purpose.

 

It's a clear improvement over Apple's own driver, and implements a more pixel-by-pixel smooth tracking/scrolling as it is in OS X, and fixes a couple of other stuff that Apple haven't bothered with. My point is, Apple can clearly write a better driver for Windows, yet they don't.

I don't see how you can conclude this? They are gimping your Windows experience on purpose. It can be expressed in different ways, but Apple has not much to gain by providing good drivers or enable all features of their hardware in Windows. They could gain my respect, but that falls flat in today's world I guess.

As for switchable graphics drivers. It's quite complicated for normal users out there to fix such drivers when the primary problems lies in the EFI and BIOS emulation. And as I pointed out before, we don't need switchable graphics a la Optimus on the fly in Windows. Just the ability to switch between the video cards, which could be accomplished in a less complicated way by providing a toggle in the Boot Camp Panel, together with reboots.

And as a final note. Why can't Apple communicate what the problem is to their users? If it is too complicated and expensive to support switchable graphics in Windows on Macs, then why don't they tell us? Why all this secrecy and guessing?

It ends up with people like you, and also me, sitting here and concluding our things at best intent. But really, a lot could be avoided if Apple got rid of their attitude. In the end, yes other companies may also behave the same way. Microsoft gimped some stuff for Mac, and we all understand why and don't like it. I am just saying that it is up to every single company to set the bar how they want to respect their customers.

 

I believe the reason why you don't get AHCI mode in Windows through Boot Camp is that Apple wants to preserve compatibility with Windows XP, at least for now. It's possible that XP compatiblity is also a hurdle in supporting switchable graphics, because I know that some other vendors only support switching in Vista and 7.

There's no way Apple was going to let you make the selection in EFI because they are pretty strict about not giving customers access to the EFI menu.

 

HI there are bugs from what I can see Apple did do it on purpose. From what I been messing around with, its some flaws that Apple hasnt really fixed because they want people to only use OS X. I used a driver from laptop2go for Nvidia graphics because I noticed powermizer flaws that wouldnt go away even with powermizer enabling programs. The Nvidia driver I downloaded from that site restored what I wanted and so far it has been working better on temps and graphics area. But there are still issues that I think Apple will never try to fix including enabling switch graphics. Some guy said so other companys dont have switch graphics, than why did Apple include those? But not available to Windows, it isnt because its hard to enable its because they only want you to use OS X.

 

By the way, lack of switchable graphics in Windows is a plus as far as I'm concerned.

 

You don't pay extra for BootCamp, but you pay for Windows license + a less optimized Windows OS experience. Its all the same.

 

It's strictly detrimental. I'm not sure how it's possibly a plus. Since you can just force the dedicated graphics to be permanently on in OS X, you either have the option to have longer battery life or you don't have that option.

 

It's only detrimental if you use Windows while unplugged, which I never do. The only time I use Windows is to play games. With all the trouble I've had with switchable graphics not functioning as they should, the fact I don't have to worry about it on the Windows side is a plus. No messing about with whitelists which may or may not work (a la Optimus), no concerns about OpenGL functionality (a la AMD). Just install the drivers, tweak the settings, and go. Consistent. Perfect.

 

I think its kinda funny that everyone assumes that if a driver is made "right" that it will be exactly the same in Windows as it is in OSX. Much of the limitations are not due to the drivers... though they could use improvement.

Apple has plenty of driver issues, especially graphics drivers issues, in OSX that often takes them 6 months or a year to fix (or never), so I'm not sure why people expect them to pay that close attention to an OS they don't actually care about.