Students and Macbook?

Ok so pardon me if this sounds a bit blunt or anything, but I'd like the opinions of Mac users on this topic.

I've been hearing a lot recently from people(mostly friends or acquaintances) that the Macbook is the ideal notebook for a student and I am still puzzled as to why

Perhaps a clarification of what type of student we're talking about would help, because I really cannot see how a Macbook caters to a student's needs any better than any other notebook to be honest.

As a student, to me at least, a few things stand out when picking a computer(and a notebook):

- Price: let's face it, education isn't free and many students don't necessarily have funds from their parents or access to a lot of money for their education so budget is a thing many students have to live with. Macbooks generally have higher price tags than other brands of notebooks so I kind of fail to see how they cater to this aspect of students.

- Performance: I'm not talking about pure specs because I know full well Macs can come equipped with nice specs. I meant more speaking of OSX. As a student, sometimes you will be asked to run programs specific to a course or major and unless they've changed and all programs are suddenly OSX capable, quite a few of them are restricted to Windows(or even Linux). Obviously you can run bootcamp to start these applications, but that kind of defeats the purpose of getting OSX no?

- Portability: If a student needs to lug around a laptop to his/her classes, I'm guessing it should be mildly portable. Obviously this requirement changes depending on the person, but I'm speaking in general terms. The Macbook caters well in this department though. It is usually built well and compact.

- Build quality: Tying in with the budget point, a student(or even a person in general) would prefer their notebook to be durable and last as long as possible. Now Macbooks are very well built and have nice durable quality so this much is good.

Perhaps my analysis is incorrect, but those are the things that strike me the first as what a student would consider in purchasing a notebook. Perhaps I am mistaken and if so, I would be glad to accept any comments, but I've spoken about the topic with a few people and they agreed with me for the most part.

So basically, the Macbooks would cater 2 of the 4 points I'd consider what a student would look at most for their notebook(at least one for school) which is hardly what I'd call "the ideal student notebook"(which IMO would cater to all of them). Perhaps I am mistaken, but despite the Macbooks strengths, other brands can also accomplish these points so I still am unable to see how the Macbook is the "ideal student notebook" according to some.

Some insight would be greatly appreciated

 

Totally agree that they aren't cost effective for most students. Someone that's only going to use their computer to type things, surf the web, and play music & videos shouldn't get a Mac. Netbooks are ideal for students. Cheap, and do everything most will need.

 

The old Macbooks were a decent deal for students; the new ones just aren't viable for many. Ironic considering higher-education students are a good part of the core audience for Apple products (especially laptops).

If you're also in any faculty besides Arts, you'll probably NEED Windows programs that aren't on Mac. Not to mention boot camp isn't usable at all with the trackpad since Apple refuses to release decent drivers for Vista.

 

Not necessarily. If you're planning to type on a netbook for an extended period of time, be prepared for hand strains in the future.

 

My friend has a Mac that she always bring in french class so we don't get bored (indeed, we spent 20min. watching the screensaver ). So she pulls her giant 17'' MBP (early 2008) while I pull my Sager.

The MBP is less than an inch thick, while mine is like almost 2'' thick. Overall, the MBP is less heavier, which makes its more conveniant to transport, but not by much I believe. I personally don't find the 17'' MBP conveniant but a .Macbook or a 15'' MBP would be way more conveniant than my Sager. The build quality is good, but I'm still enjoy to make the screen wobble . Also, maybe everyone knows that but I just discovered this: you can use your pencil on the aluminium .Macbook (sample picture below ) and just use the eraser to wipe everything. But Macs are very durable, not only because of the build quality, but the OS doesn't slow down over time, or at least, it stays in great shape for a longer time than Windows, if no maintenance is made. Also, being aside from each other, I can see her screen while she cannot see mine because of the viewing angle =[



For the performance, what's really great about the MBP is that it has decent power while giving 5hrs of battery life, thanks to the dual GPU (or wtv it is called). If you run OS X applications, there won't be any problems I think but as you mentionned, running Windows kills the point of having OS X, although you still have the conveniance of the MBP.

About the price tag, it is indeed more expensive, and even with the extras you get like OSX, 1'' thick, great battery life, etc. it doesn't fully justify the $1200 price tag for a 13'' .Macbook although the student discount helps. For a student, it might not be the best laptop to consider but if your parents can help, or if you are willing to wait a bit and work harder, this could easily justify the investment.

Personally, after living 4 months with my Sager, I can say I would have considered the .Macbook for its conveniance if I didn't need gaming power. Of course .Sony .Vaio have dual GPU, Latitude and .T500 have better battery life, Sager is more powerful, netbooks are more conveniant, .Alienware looks more cool, Asus have nice features (eg ExpressGate). There is no such thing as a perfect laptop. Just take the M860TU: everyone said this was the perfect laptop, but its missing a cooler HDD, its relatively loud, CPU whinning, etc. You have to consider this as an overall for your needs, i.e. in this case, student needs.

Take in consideration pros and cons. .Macbook is not the most portable laptop nor the most powerful, but its definitly between all these extremes, despite the high price tag. And OS X should be one of the thing to take in consideration when buying. As a student who've used the MBP, I can say its good for students because of the portability (weight and battery life) and OS X.

(Btw, thanks for taking an objective point of view in all this instead of bashing .Apple)

 

Student discounts on hardware and software help a lot. Also, Apple's software is considerably cheaper than the Microsoft or Adobe equivalents even before taking into account any discounts.

Having said all of that, the fact that most of the software used is Windows only is a big disadvantage. I'm a student and my MBP works for me but I'm surprised at how many other students use a Mac. When I got mine I thought the Mac + OSX was an acquired taste.

 

I am a college student and I mostly use my Dell X1 in class as it is very small and light and does what I need it to do (browse the net when the class gets too boring). That said if I intend to study however I bring the MBP to the library or review session etc. I find the MBP screen to be very comfortable to use and the keyboard excellent as well. It also runs fairly cool and is lighter than comparable 15in notebooks while still offering very good battery life. I am not a diehard OSX fan so I cant comment on how great it is. It does what I need it to do.

Finally there is always the style factor. In terms of price you can find a used MBP 4.1 which is just as fast as the newest MBP for a bit over $1k which is pretty reasonable though still more expensive than PC equivalents.

 

I disagree. New macbooks = one big heatsink. No features of the mac justify its price tag. you won't notice the difference in half an inch, or a few ounces to a pound.

You will notice the performance though. If you're a gamer, the general rule is to stay away from macs. I would say go for the lenovo t400. Cheaper, better performance, and alot more durable.

 

The main reason to get a Mac is because OSX is awesome . OSX also has a Unix terminal which is very important to me as a CS student. Macs tend to be more portable than their PC competitors. Not only is the thin, light, and small footprint desirable, but OSX seems to do a much better job with power management than Windows Vista. You typically don't see 5 hours of battery life on PCs with an 8 cell battery and a decent dedicated GPU.

The main reasons why I bought my MBP are
it was the only 15.4" notebook with an LED backlit screen at the time.
It had a good 1lb advantage over its competetors and ~ .3" advantage in depth, width, and height.
I love the touchpad
A majority of my CS classes have been taught in Mac computer clusters so being familiar with OSX is very beneficial.
5 hrs of battery life w/ a dedicated GPU

If you wait for the back to school student sales, the price isn't too bad. I got a free printer, iPod, and $200 off. I sold the iPod, so my MBP ended up costing me a bit over $1600.

 

You mean the old ones, right?

 

Hey, I'm a college student too. I got a previous gen MBP about 3 weeks ago and made the switch to OSX. So far, the only problem I've had was with a statistics program called SPSS, it was available for both OSX and Windows, but it kept randomly crashing in OSX so I had to install XP via bootcamp and run it from there. Other than that it's been pretty smooth.

The other thing that might annoy you is the highly reflective glossy only screens of the new macbooks. It's personal preference, but having done a lot of reading/studying on my laptop, I definitely prefer the LED matte screen on this old MBP. Although it shows crisper colors and more vibrant images, the reflections/glare might get to you.

Another personal preference, but all the ports on the new MB and MBP are all on the left side. I'm right handed and use a USB mouse plugged in on the right side and wrapping the cord all the way around would annoy me a lot.

Just my two cents.

 

For the new macbooks, compared to their spec, it's not that much more expensive than the similar spec pc-laptops. You can compare the baseline new macbook to Sony Z series, Lenovo U330, or HP dv3500t and see how much they differ. The best thing about macbook in my opinion is portability without losing performance for students.

 

How about the tablet form-factor? There are no tablet Macs.

Macs are okay, but they are overrated. If you want to be part of the "cool" crowd, join the iSheep.

 

Well, the .T400 is priced around $1300, switcheable graphics, nice portable. I feel that this one beets the .Macbook for the price. But I agree with the portability and performance. OS X should make the difference between the .Macbook and a PC-equivalent.

If you want a tablet: http://www.axiotron.com/index.php?id=modbook

 

Ah ok well thanks for your input guys ^_^

I guess I'm starting to see some good reasons to get a Macbook as a student.

So seems OSX can be a big advantage for most people contrarily to what I had previously thought. Maybe it's because I know a lot of people who want to go to specific programs such as Engineering, Architecture or Genetics and their applications don't run as smoothly on OSX than on Windows.

I had already considered the form factor of a Macbook to be one of the key reasons behind its success. After all, Apple makes money off the form factor of its products. The same can be said of their Ipods lol Is it really that light/portable compared to other brands though?

As for battery life, I hadn't considered that really. It's an interesting point and it's true that most laptops have issues keeping a decent battery life as their performance goes up so that is a very good point

Anyways, thanks for your input guys ^^

I was afraid I'd come off as an Apple basher and be met with Apple fans trying to burn me on a pike lol XD

Oh random question, can anyone tell me their experience(s) with temperature changes on the new Aluminum Macbook Pros? I ask because I live in Canada so colder winters are a commodity here and I was wondering if someone brought a Macbook from their backpack after being outside for 1h or more(in -20 degree weather say), would they actually have to leave it on the table for it to warm up before using it? lol

 

It should be fine. Computers like to be cold. In fact, all of the benchmark world records are broken by purposely pouring liquid nitrogen over the cpu (in desktops).

 

as for price goes on mb, t400 from lenovo seems to be cheaper and faster(graphic)

it is also portable, durable, light

it also has a mature exterior as well and will never go wrong with suit.

 

Can you prove me this?

 

I am quite aware that the T400 is priced very aggressively with really good specification.......but this is one of the few exceptions......This past summer I have ordered a T400 which did not ship for 2 months.....With Apple, I order it on Wednesday night and receive it by Friday morning...I did not want to join the cool crowd, but with the new macbooks I am getting what I want with what I have in my pocket.

For graphic card, the 9400M on macbook is about on par with T400's HD3470 which is an overclocked version of HD3450.....I played Crysis Warhead, Need for Speed Undercover, Call of Duty 4, and Far Cry 2 on my macbook with no problems at all

 

The 3dmark performance is about the same, the .T400 have 400pts higher, but I think its because of the CPU ( http://www.notebookreview.com/defau...400+7417+-+Core+2+Duo+P8400+2.26+GHz+-+14.1): it have a 2.8GHz vs the 2.0GHz of the .Macbook ( http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=314516).

But the .T400 have switcheable graphics, which gives it more battery life than the .Macbook. But the MB is still able to deliver a good balance between performance and battery life, if students don't need to use their laptop for more than 4-5 hours.

 

Expecting my Alienware lappy today, when it arrives I'll come back and tell you if I like it better than my MBP (aluminum unibody).

I'm a college art student focusing on advt/graphic design so the most important thing I look for in a laptop are performance, hoping that they can run the necessary programs and run them well (I'm a huge multi-tasker).

However, I have heard several times from friends, family, and strangers that the macbook is a perfect choice for designers.

For students? It goes both ways. Like you stated earlier, most students are on a budget... I definitely don't think macbooks are budget friendly. Definitely if you want to be a hipster you would choose macbook for it's social essentials via ichat, photobooth, etc. However keep in note that any pc user can download skype (lol, i honestly prefer ichat but skype is still chill for your friends who don't have macs) and use facebook.

(I'm not a fanboy of any, and I think both are unique to their respective capabilities of catering to different needs)

(Also keep in mind that I'm giving you a description in my perspective)

Off the bat I can tell you that the sleekness and design innovation of the new MBP turns heads everywhere. Not only is the new design amazing, it has purpose.. the unibody actually serves to make the overall laptop more sturdy and durable. Adobe suite? Runs it flawlessly. Multiple 200+ mb files, still smooth so I'm happy with that. However the 400mb files (at around 24inx36in posters) tend to be a setback however it's a laptop so I'm not complaining. Games? Oh yeah, it can play games.

I just got my m17 from fedex at this very moment while typing this... lol, so I can compare now!

 

I hate macs.

 

Wait... You can play Crysis Warhead on the 9400M GS? May I ask what settings you're playing it on?

I like my gaming laptop because in class, I can play games while the teacher is giving a lecture. Our school allows laptops in class, but I think I'm the only one with a 17." . I sit in the back and the people next to me see me playing something like FC2 maxed out and they don't pay attention either. And the thing is, I got it for only $1,250 (I'm not like some people who have $1800 to spend on a MBP).

 

Good for you!now,ones again,whats the point of your post?

 

It is indeed more fashin and sleek but the problem is that everybody has one , at least at school. If you really want something eye-catching, you should get this version of the .Macbook Air or a paintjob

New amazing design? Maybe, but not totally. Apple just took a construction method that already existed for a while (since 1930s) and applied it to laptops (i.e. the "revolutionary" part). It may help the laptop to be more durable but I've never seen any laptop break because the assembly was poor. Only laptop that would need a unibody construction is the .m15x .

And it would be nice to specify which games you can play, at which settings and resolution. Because my old Pentium III can play games too

 

Thanks for that deep, profound contribution to this conversation. It has truly given me a new perspective on life. I was contemplating suicide until I read what you said, but you have given me new hope. Thank you so much.

 

Well I wasn't relaly asking whether or not the cold was bad for the Macbook itself, but for me as a user lol.

I've had experience with notebooks made form metal and when the notebook has been outside for more than an hour in -20 degrees, it is VERY cold to the touch initially and I've had people who needed to leave it "warm up" for 15min so it gets "usable" lol XD So I was wondering if a full aluminum body Macbook Pro would suffer from this as well.

 

I'm sorry, but this is a lie.
Mac Computer cluster? LOL. And another thing, no disrespect intended here, mac doesn't contain a "UNIX Terminal". It allows you to install XCode which allows you to develop C programs that are horribly BUTCHERED in mac. Mac can't even call GLUT libraries properly, not even close to a BSD system. It is the worst choice to emulate or develop software that's to be used on UNIX systems. I know this because, unlike you, I've been very close to C and I know what compiler is legitimate when I see it. GCC in Xcode isn't a legitimate GCC, it's a screwed up version. OSX will NEVER behave like a true unix machine should, and it shouldn't. It's an operating system that took a free kernel, spruced it up with garbage, and patented it so they could make money. Good old Apple, we can bank on you for that... Can't we?


Anyways, before you get my blood boiling because you feel you're the only CS major here trying to make people eat up your half-truths, I suggest you do not post on something you're not familiar with. Whoever has computer clusters in macs used for the SC conference is just plain stupid. And to make your half-truths even worse you just said mac is awesome. Clearly you're young and you're an AP computing science kid in high school. You've got a long way to go before you get to real programming, and that's the honest truth.

I got a MacBook Pro because it provided the size and power I needed. I don't use OSX as my programming environment. I SSH remotely to a slackware lab machine to make sure my software is properly running in the right environment. I also make sure that if I do want to program on the laptop without SSH'ing, that I have a dualboot of Fedora ready to go.

Over and out.

 

You're a tool. No one cares about your coding capabilities and preferences. I go to a top-ten university and we also have a Mac cluster that is used for coding. I'm pretty sure that people in the CS department at my school are a hell of a lot smarter than you and weighed the pros and cons of constructing a similar unix-based system and went with Apple. I don't know what glorious, million-dollar programs you're creating on your Unix shell, but we have had hundreds of rigorous papers published by the bio sciences, physical sciences, and CS departments who have used the Mac environment as basis for writing their code. But then again, you must know everything about coding and all others are wrong.

 

how about the other way around, proof to me that 9400m is faster with shared memory than a 3470 w/ discrete video memory?

my bet is on discrete.

 

Well your certainly entitled your opinion. I'm not sure how you had trouble finding the Unix terminal in OSX. You see, Apple cleverly named it "Terminal." As far as mac computer clusters, my experienced is that of a Carnegie Mellon student. I do not know about the university that you attended, but the the majority of the computer clusters here contain Macs. In fact, I just came back from a final that took place in a Mac cluster.

 

I'll give you one reason why macbooks are suitable for students. They look cool. They're thin, they're light, and OSX has a nice user interface. Honesty I bought mine because it looks cool. If macbooks looked no different than a Dell, then I would not even put them into consideration.

Lets face it, if you bought a $4000 Alienware laptop that ran Crysis at 120fps, non of the girls would care. But if you brought a macbook air to school, everyone would be checking you (and the laptop) out . Its kind of like cars. If all Ferrari's looked like Toyota Corollas, I can assure you not many people would be driving them.

 

lol and sigh at this post..

But yea, the OP was asking about cold weather and macs. From my experience, if its cold out, my mac will get PRETTY cold, but it will still wake up from sleep and function perfectly fine right away. Havnt actually had any issues with the cold weather, though i dont live in quebec so its not really comparable. Only downside I can kinda see about the cold weather, is that usually batteries dont like running in the cold, so if the computer is asleep it might use a bit more battery.

 

I think that "cool" is not a valid argument but I would agree with the rest. Also, I don't think any student would be able to afford a .Macbook Air and even if we could, I think we would get a better desktop replacement instead of a secondary laptop. But the MBA is indeed eye-catching.

 

Hey, the mba first ed. was going for under 1200 not too long ago. Brand new, too. At the very least, the old version is far more affordable than it was in the beginning.

 

Cool, stylish, trendy, you know what I mean. We're not talking specifically about the MBA, its just an example.

 

Yes I did, and on all minimal settings so I can play the game smoothly all the way. Again I want to mention that I am not a gamer, I mainly use my laptop for educational purpose, but I would love to try out the latest games.....so 9400M GS is just right for me.....AND people who spend $1800 on MBP are generally not hardcore gamers.

 

my bet still on the discrete memory, 1959 and 2067 is too slim and memory bandwidth and latency should dictate

*score from google: notebookcheck, 3dmark06

 

Yeah the terminal part is a bit puzzling. If it is not a Unix terminal I don't know what it is. OSX Leopard is considered Unix while the other OSXs Unix-like.

 

They are the same, +-5%! but the difference is that macbook can get ~5 hours with that GPU,and Lenovo can't.

 

However, the Lenovo can accept an extended battery for 10 hours of battery life. Macs do not belive in extended batteries. People who work all day away from a power socket would appreciate the extended battery.

 

The reviews that i have read put the MB on 4 hours with wifi on and reduced brightness. The Lenovo T400 gets about 5-6 hours with wifi on with the standard battery i believe.
A 13.3 in notebook is more ideal for college though than a 14.1 in notebook. An 11.1< notebook/netbook is even better though because you will most probably still be cramped for space even with a 13.3 in notebook on your desk.

 

size of screen is personal preference isn't it?

i actually prefer 12inch, and 4:3 over widescreen

what is more ideal then? how's tablet in this case? we can then throw away all the comparisons as none of them meet the criteria, which i find is the ideal for college students who doesn't require any graphic-related programs

as for graphic war, no one wins and they are equal

battery life is not comparable though, t400 can take extended battery that last much longer and i don't think anyone will/can prove the otherwise; apple while having a great battery strength(i must admit surprised to see my mbpe08 running 5hours+ with wifi/download/continuous use of life), extended battery will certainly be better.

 

I don't really think looks are that much of a factor. Looks are relative to each person. There's a reason that there isn't much of a "monopoly' in clothes because style and looks are really something that is relative to each person so no one company can make something that everyone likes.

Well the looks of the Macbook are a matter of opinion. I find it looks good, but I also find other notebooks just as good looking and I know people who dislike the look of Macbooks.

If anything, Apple products tend to have a simple & sophisticated look, but for people who enjoy glam a bit, it might not be their cup of cake either.


For the record, Ferraris also happen to have good race car engines in them so their performance matches their look. If all the Ferrari was is a chassis, then I'm sure people wouldn't buy them as much since other companies could just mimic the chassis.

In the same regard, I think the Macbook's appeal goes farther than a superficial level.

 

while most won't argue the fact that ferrari looks as sexy as a car can be, their performance isn't as high as their look suggest.

people comparing apple with ferrari now? give me a ferrari and i will throw away all my apple junks any day of the week, maybe not their shares...

 

Hmmm ...... is it possible to install Windows AND Ubuntu via bootcamp and have a triple-boot?

 

I can assure you that if macbooks looked like lenovo's then Apple wouldn't sell anywhere near as many laptops as they do now.

 

but then again people who buy from Lenovo are returning customers, who have 2+ thinkpads.

 

and generally people who work in the corporate field.