Should I chose a Mac?

Hi,

I am sure this question has risen and been answered many times, but I just did not find the answers to convince me..
I have been planning to get a notebook for quiet a while now... I was abt to get it in April but then decided to wait for the AMD X2... but am not impressed.. My latest thought is that of a MacBook, 2GHz.
You probably guessed I am in no real hurry to get a notebook. Just want to make sure that the one I get can last me at least 4-5 yrs.
I am also not very picky abt the processsor so either AMD or intel will do.
Am going to be just the average everyday user of the notebook... Email, Surfing, chatting, and the likes... Need a notebook (not a desktop) because work may make me travel.
Why am I reluctant on the Mac?
- I think they are expensive. Am not sure to which DELL or HP System I can compare it to.. but I would guess that the Mac is at least $200 more than a similar configured DELL/HP.
- Am not sure abt the graphic card available in the Mac as compared to a similar priced DELL/HP. I do not plan to do any hard core gaming or video photo editing but would obv like more bang for my buck, so to speak...
- Also I read OS X is coming up with a major upgrade in Aug.. Lepoard... If I buy a MacBook now.. am I eligilble for an upgrade or do I have to pay for that as well.. how big a hole would that be?? Also what would happen to support for OS X tiger for those of us who choose not to upgrade...

Any other reasons Mac lovers can convince me to go for a mac instead of a DELL/HP????

One more question.. I checked prices for Mac Book at PC Connection at $100 less than the apple store and also i do not have to pay tax (I think!) so that makes is approx $180-$200 saving..
Any advice where should I get it from PC Connection or Apple store and why???
ok.. one last question.. where do I get a ram upgrade from ??? RAM at apple store is way to exp...

Thanks
Shikhar

 

Get memory upgrades from Newegg.com, because they have the cheapest prices, good selection, fast shipping, great customer service, and are a very reliable and reputable online store.

 

I really like Mac products, OS X is really great as long as you arent into playing games which it sounds like you arent. You could run Windows via bootcamp if you want, which is nice but I know if I got bootcamp I would just use Windows all the time so at that point it would be worth it for me.

As far as the MacBook goes I am not a huge fan because it has integrated graphics...which may not be a huge deal for you, I dont know. I like the last series of G4 iBooks better...the keyboards are better and they have dedicated graphics.
For the price of a MacBook you could get a lot nicer Windows machine...but OS X is great, its more stable and less likley to get a virus or spyware than Windows XP. I also find that there is a lot more customization that can be done with OS X. Apple also tends to be a bit slower about comming out with new products and refeshes of current products so in that respect they have the potential to lasting longer if you stick to OS X.

PC Connection is a good place to buy. However I do not know if you are going to school or not but I know that my school has an account with Apple that gets me $300 off I believe all Apple computers...I am not sure though, I know it was $300 off the MacBookPro.

 

Leopard does not come out until late 06, early 07. What is happening in August is a preview. When it comes out it will be $129 to upgrade or $100 for education. Apple scales their OS very well. There are g3's circa 1999 running Tiger, albeit in a somewhat dumb downed mode. So getting 4-5 years will be achievable.

There is a permium to be paid for Macs, but it is not that much on the MacBook, and it is worth it. If you use OS X you will not want to return to Windows, trust me.

If you don't game, don't worry about graphics.

PC Connection is good, I think. Not 100%. Macmall is another place that will sell them a little cheaper as is Amazon. You would be just fine to buy from those places. As for taxes, if you live in California you will pay taxes at pretty much every site. Other than that you would have to check for yourself.

I think a Mac would fit you well. You will likely find that the extra money you pay is more than made up for by OS X and the included iLife 06 suite.

 

Well, your are getting a pretty standard built-in video graphics, but for what you have stated it'll work perfectly fine for your needs.

No, you would have to purchase an upgrade for leopard, so if your in no hurry just wait until leopard is released than go ahead and buy one.

Apple has excellent customer service, and a solid reputation behind its name, it controls every aspect of it's hardware and software, and because it does Apple makes sure that the brand truely stands for quality.

Newegg is a perfect place to get more memory, in matter of fact its where I got my 2x1Gb ram for my white 2.0Ghz macbook. It runs like a dream now, so having memory upgrade is a must!

I would also strongly recommend getting AppleCare, which extends your warranty to 3 years on phone and repair services. You might ask if Apple is quality why do you need that warranty? well theres always something that can get through (a defective harddrive) plus since your planning on having it for 4-5 years, and I'm sure if you take good care of it, it will easily last that long, however the LCD screen will most likely dim or go bad (this applies to any LCD screen regardless of manufacturer), the LCD screen can be the most expensive thing to replace and thats where AppleCare can come in and replace it.

Now for Dell and HP, they are more concerned with quantity than quality, granted if you know how to use Dells customer service correctly it can be a good experience, but you should never have to really use it in the first place! (same applies for Apple)

Just remember you can run XP on this if you really need too, but OS X is so great I dunno why you'd want too. I can't tell you how much more my life has become streamlined because of OS X and how much I love just plugging something in and not having to find drivers and stuff. It's truely an all in one system.

also if you're looking to do some heavy gaming, a Macbook pro might be a better idea, but than the price really skyrockets.

I can't tell you how much my Macbook has been one of my best purchases ever, how much you get for what you pay is truely worth it, I have features in this that I might and might not ever use, but its a nice feeling knowing if I ever did, I can do it.

I'm expecting to sell mine near the end of my 3 yr AppleCare and upgrading to the next new Macbook, and I know with an Apple product their resale value is WAY more better than any PC laptop/notebook.

For example you could expect it to sell for 600 whereas a comparable PC laptop for 100-300 less. Now it won't be enough to buy a new one, but it sure takes a good chunk out of it. (granted pcs are cheaper so it evens out I guess)

I have never heard of PC connection so I dunno if they are solid, but if you find out they are use that money you save towards AppleCare.

I still can't get over how much faster of a difference dual core makes during movie encoding.

If you have anymore questions please ask!

cheers.

 

Alright, do keep in mind our reviews are liking going to be biased since we are Mac fans.

Anyways, having been a PC user all my life, and the owner of a MacBook Pro as of two weeks ago, here is my insight.

For everything but gaming, I pretty much use OSX exclusively. At first becoming a competent user on OSX was a little duanting, but its often because things I dare say are a little too simple or just that Mac has a different mindset for interfaces. I won't be cocky and say better, but definitely thought out. I do feel quite confortable on the OS now.

I won't say that "everything just works" either.

• For one, there are still several applications that won't run on mactels (even with rosetta) such as openoffice. The opensource community is catching up though.
• Also I had one brief instance when the machine was not identifying its wireless card. I think it was some sort of brief hardware problem, because the problem arose when windows didn't find the card, I then restarted and booted up in OSX and it didn't find the card, and then restarted OSX, and haven't had a problem with that since.
• Also filevault also had given me problems. Itunes would not play MP3s correctly which were in the vault. And it also deleted my preferences (dock preferences, default browser, browser bookmarks, and mail configurations).
• Can't or just very hard to connect to my home printer which is set up on a pc set to share the printer on the network. I had no problem connecting to shared folders on any pc on the network, but getting to the printer has been a real pain.

Despite these grievences, I am happy with the purchase and must say I like OSX much more then windows now. Only thing bothering me is just the smaller availability of software since the universal/mactel binary switch is still in process.

 

you said you arent picky about processors and you are just going to use email, surf the web, chat, etc. so why were you not impressed with the AMD X2

 

Hi,

Thanks a ton for all ur responses, but I am still not convinced to pay the extra buck for Mac. No doubt I am adventurous and want to try out the Mac with OS X, but money is also an important factor.
Most of what I read convinced me that it is fun to work on OS X, but can't I buy a PC and then have OS X installed on it.. like have a dual boot??? Then I can have the fun of OS X and save spending extra on the Mac. I am a little ignorant so pardon me if that was a stupid question...
I was not "impressed" per se by the AMD X2, i was essentially trying to future proof my purchase... I was hoping that even if I have to upgrade 4 yrs down the line, I should be able to sell it without any problems compared to a PC/MAC with a 32-bit processor...
I was also hoping that someone could give me a configuration of a DELL/HP which is comparable to the Mac Book... just to make a price comparision...
and does the RAM upgrade by 3rd party affect the apple warranty...


thanks again....

am not a student... but if worth it.. may ask a friend to buy it for me ;-)

 

Just thought I'd even out all the pro-mac comments here. I have owned two macs during the last 8 years. First I had a 200MHz Macintosh Performa which was absolutely amazing when it came to longevity. I still have it to this day, and whenever I go home and visit my parents I still use that computer for some basic music composing and gaming.

The Performa has never(!) been to repair, and has always worked perfectly. It even experienced a strike og lightning which killed the modem and did some minor damage to the screen, it it still works fine to this day. The screen is still usable, the pircture just shrunk a little, but it's fine.

My last mac, however, can not be classified as anything more than 'a piece of junk'. I own the iBook G3 14" LCD, and I must say that I have been extremely disappointed by that machine. It has died on me for the third time now (every time with a dead motherboard), and in addition the CD-burner/reader has always been a big problem, and so has the trackpad for the mouse.

The whole construction is extremely flimsy, it cracks and popps whenever you touch it, very weak construction. In fact, it is probaby the construction that is the reason why so many people have dead logic boards on their iBooks, because the case it to soft to support the inside connections and so eventually they break.

In other words, don't move the iBook around too much....which is kind of stupid for a laptop.

Now, of course I am biased here as well, being one of all those people who got screwed. But honestly, I feel that Apple's standards have slipped quite a lot during the last few years. Apple used to be a "special interest" kind of computer, and so they would always produce good stuff as this was vital to their market.

Now Apple has been tuning in to the common consumer market, trying to sell as much as possible to as many as possible, and in all that their standards have fallen dramatically. Notice all the issues with the iBooks. Notice all the issues with the PowerBooks. Notice all the issues with the iPods. Notice all the issues with the MacBook.

Now I honestly don't see the big fuzz over macs anymore. You get cheaper and better PC's with the same multimedia performances.

If you want a computer that is gonna last you 4-5 years (which is what I wanted when I bought mine), I wouldn't buy a Mac right now. If I were you, I would rather wait for at least 6 months to one year before buyin the MacBooks and see if there are any excessive long-term issues that most people experience.

I see people have numerous issues with their MacBooks, and something tells me that they haven't seen the worst yet. So my advice is to wait and see what happends with other peoples MacBooks. It's alot of money to waste if you are unlucky (like me).

Do you pro-mac people agree that Apple's standards have slipped as they've been trying to take over a bigger share of the market? And do you agree that trying out your products on the paying costrumer is a dishonest way of conducting bussines?

 

It is rather unfair to claim that Apples standards has gone down because of what has happened to you, pretty much everyone I know who has a mac has no issues with their macs.

Like I said, your always gonna be more likely to see complaiants than 'awesome' comments on the internet, blogs and whatnot are nothing but some stupid form of venting feelings for some people... personally when i do take the time to read one, I read more of the bad things than the good things.

My Macbook is actually pretty cool it generally runs at 48 C which is pretty good for a dual core thin notebook like this.

I could go on and rant about all the issues with PC such as viruses, and the already proven crappy construction of Dell, not to mention how unorganized they are with their online shopping.

You can be the person thats always gonna be on the sideline trying to think of which way to go, but whatever makes you happy.

 

I do not own a mac but I have used them a lot over the years as well as many PCs and almost without exception ALL computer manufactures standards have slipped signifgantly. Apple still makes a quality product...howere the latest line of laptops I have not been impressed with as far as the quality in the casing I remeber when they had powerbooks made out of titanium and those were great computers....they are all made out of plastic now and the keyboards and screens are no longer top notch.

But OSX is great and worth the premium price as long as you arent a gamer, also the customer care is great.

 

To xbandaidx:

Since this guy spesifically wanted a computer that is gonna last for 4-5 years, I thouht I'd only be fair to tell the other side of the story since I have experienced Apples declining quality myself. I've also spent hours and hours researching these things trying to come up with solutions, and it turns out that people are having these problems everywhere. Petitions, legal-actions, you name it. It's all there.

This is not based on my experiences alone. And of course, happy people make less noice than displeased people for sure. But even taking that into consideration, there are A LOT of pissed of people on the Apple support forums for the iBooks and PowerBooks.

I'm not saying that Apple is worse than anything else. I'm just saying that they might not be worth the $$ these days if a strong construction is what this guy is looking for.

On a lighter note, I love Mac OS X and mac software in general. I wouldn't want anything else. No viruses is another treat for the Mac user.

But construction-wise, I am not so sure about Macs. I think it's a good idea to wait it out a little, especially when this guy saies he is in no rush to buy a computer. That is just judging from their handling of the iBooks and the PowerBooks, I don't own a MacBook and have also never held one in my hands.

So I'm not telling anyone to take what I say for granted. But it's quite common knowledge know that problems with the iBooks and PowerBooks were mostly with the earlier models, and then they make improvements along the way. And now we see the same things happening to the MacBooks (judging from other posts on this forum).

There is no doubt in my mind that MacBooks will turn out to be great computers, just like the later models of the iBook and the PowerBook. But don't let them try it out on you, better to wait a few months and let them make improvements to problems that may arrise after a while.

I'm gonna get a MacBook myself. But right now my girlfriend is buying a PC, so that gives me time to see how things go along the way. And Im glad I don't have to rush and buy one right now when things are a bit unclear.

So I'm just giving this guy the same advice as I follow myself. I want a MacBook badly, but it might be smart to let them sort out the infamous 'early release'-mess of Apple first. Then buy. Like I said, eventually I will buy one myself.


To BlazinBWF:

So the MacBooks are all made of plastic? That is exactly what I feared. This is what I learned to hate about my IBooks as well, as the case was not strong enough to support the inside connections when being lifted. It also belongs to the story that I was never any good with lifting the computer from all sides, sometimes I would grab it after one side and this is probably what eventually killed my iBook. Be very carefull with plastic laptops.

 

Back in the day, one of my friends and my old school used to use mac's (mid 90's models). Biggest POS ever. Mac's have always been slow (well, maybe not the IIe), and they still slightly continue that trend today. Mac's have style and are unique...imo, that's their biggest selling point.

My friend's mac, probably around 200mhz, was so slow that word processors would hesitate with every word you'd type...The software was slightly updated, but with a 4-5 year old computer you'd expect it to be. I was a PC guy until recently...now I really don't have a preference.

____________________________________________________________________________________________
To the original poster. Mac's definately can last you 4-5 years, but as the end nears you'll probably be itching for a new computer. Mac's are quality, especially when compared to Dell's, but they aren't cutting edge performers. If you get a mac, buy 2gb of ram right away.

Personally, I'd avoid the applecare warranty. If you don't break anything, then you're out $250. If you hdd goes bad, it'll cost ~$60-100 for a replacement. If you drop your notebook and break the screen, you're an idiot... Seriously, though, in that case I'd just buy a replacement part off of ebay and use an online guide to replace the part. The applecare wouldn't even be a perfect saving grace in that situation anyways...your computer would be dinged and scratched to hell regardless.

 

You are probably right that Macs have a history of making 'slower' computers, but you have to keep in mind that in those times macs were special interest computers for multimedia-people.

My interest was music recording, and for that my mid 90's 200 Mhz Performa was just perfect. The multimedia support was great, the recording sound was good and I never had to upgrade anything to record. Friends of mine who used PC's and wanted to do recording always had to upgrade their soundcards and stuff like that, and in the end the result was never quite as good (sound-quality wise). And not THAT much cheaper, either (since they had to do upgrades).

It was not a computer made for gaming, but I did play a few games on it that were from that time. Riven, Mirror of Kofun, Imperialism II, Civilization II and Total Anihilation were games I played. The last one was a bit slow on the biggest maps, though. In general not a computer for hard-core gamers, and it was never ment to be. That was PC. You couldn't get that many games for the Mac anyways in those times, at least not in Norway.

Also I noticed that hybrid games always had lower specs for the Mac than for the PC, probably due to a more integrated OS on the mac which left more avaliable for the game. But somebody else probably knows more about that.

So yeah, those mid 90's Macs were absolutely not POS's, they were just not what you needed. And btw, school-computers are always ****ed up no matter what brand they are, and it's due to a bunch of kids running wild. But Macs were in general more stable than PC's in those times, and I think they still are when it comes to the software. And in addition you have the whole virus-issue, which is a no-brainer for a school.

I think Apple should have stuck to the multimedia and institution market, and not sacrifice quality for a larger mainstream-market. Because of their old marketing strategies towards special interest groups, 'quality' was a vital aspect for Apple. Now they are the biggest fashion out there, and naturally they don't need to rely as much on the quality anymore. My iBook didn't even have a mic-input, and I had to get an iMic interphase. And then it turned out that the iMic was so poorly integrated that I couldn't even record anything anymore cause the lag was too big and many recording programs (like CuBase) wouldn't work with it. Also the RAM was not big enough to support programs from its time. But that's my own fault. I should've bought a PowerBook for my use, but I was stupid, didn't know squat about computers and so I didn't realize that Apple expanded their market with 'just for checking your email' computeres like the iBook. My bad.

So there has just been drafts on my iBook, real recordings I have to do elsewhere, maybe on one of my bandmates' PC. How things change....

 

**** now do I have to get a girlfriend first to make my decision for which notebook to get.... this sucks..!!!! Had I got a girlfriend I wouldn't need a notebook... if you know what I mean....
ok let us rule out the possibility of me getting a girlfriend... that's MI 4
well, some great in depth reviews... appreciate all the time taken to give think and write them down...
2 questions I am still looking answers for...
1. what is the DELL/HP equivalent of the 13" MacBook... at least the closet equivalent.. if you know the price as well that would be cool... else I can always check that meself...
2. Can OS X be made to run on PC.. (hmm... I see I am leaning towards a PC)...
I am on the knife's edge and just need the slightest reason to shift to a Mac... (I might!! Hell am I a confused dude or what???)

thanks once again... pls do continue the discussion between the pro-Mac and the con-Macs .. the more the view points I get the better... I hope!!!

Shikhar

 

I know my school was running OS X (when I was in high school) but there was one problem, they were slow, now not slow because they were slow these were G4s, and a couple were G5 but those were more reserved for teachers.

Anyways, they were slow because the network they were on was also being shared with the PCs, the PCs severely lagged the network and macs had to pay the price for PCs downfall. There were days when the PCs were acting up bad that you could barely do anything on OS X (Users informations and files are stored on a server, and the PCs would cause problems on the school network).

I remember always just seeing the Mac administator sitting there doing nothing, I think if I know correctly he just downloaded all kinds of stuff to test out on the macs to see about getting it purchased for the school, he had all the free time to do whatever, only time he was busy was when the PCs were acting up and he had to go around and do whatever.

The PC guy was always busy and rarely ever had time for himself, I remember all the conversations I had with the mac guy, he'd come along to our multimedia classes and sit and chat with us while the other guy is running all over school.

That right there shows you an idea of how powerful and stable OS X is. Apparently around here macs are starting to get the attention of people and places are looking for people with mac administration knowledge.

Anyways, I think you should go check out a macbook in near future even if you aren't planning on one right now, check out the construction I think you will be pleased with it. I know I am. You can tell this is strong sturdy plastic, I can exert a very considerable amount of force onto the plastic and it barely budges.

I totally agree with lot of the points you made, I'm just however not one of those people that like to wait for revisions.

Anyways as for the slower part, you can't compare a PowerPC to Intel or AMD back than, it's just not right. I had a nice system of comparing performance between the two and it usually worked and appeared to work nicely for me. It worked like this...

Lets say we got a G4 processor here running at 600 Mhz, top of the line! OOOh ahhh, I always loved how people would look at the PC spec and go "um but the PC is 1.0-1.2Ghz" yeah true, but they are different architectures, and how I thought of it was that I always doubled the PowerPCs speed so 600 Mhz in terms of comparasion to PC was 1.2 Ghz, and I always noticed that everytime the PC increased their speed that the powerpc always went with it so when we got 1.6Ghz there was a powerpc with 800Mhz, eventually it stopped working that way.

Its probably a bad system, but thats how I thought of it.

 

You can not run OS X on a PC, and that in itself is a good reason to get a mac. However, I think Microsoft improved their OS reputation with Win XP (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Like I said, I love Mac OS X. I love everything about it. It's so stable that you never really need to worry about your system crashing or anything like that. It maintains itself very nicely, so if you were to encounter a problem at some point a simple restart will probably fix it. It's also nice not having to worry about viruses (Norton on Win XP is THE most annoying program EVER).

On the other hand I am a bit concerned about Apple's build quality in recent years. I don't think plastic is a good material, but that is solely based on my experiences with the iBook. On this computer you can pretty much touch the machinery through the almost elastic cover, but you should probably listen to the guy above here who said that the plastic is sturdier on the MacBook. I haven't held one, so I wouldn't know. I also somewhat share his experiences when it comes to comparing Mac vs. PC speed, but like he said that only goes for the PowerPC's. Intel is a different story, so now Mac and Apple should be about the same when it comes to speed if the specs are the same.

Anyone knows why Apple went away from titanium structures? Sounds like the natural choice to me, and it looks prettier as well. Plastic is.....you know, plastic.

PS.
Just a funny story; I've noticed that one of the trams here in Prague have installed several screens along the mid-corridor. I've seen it twice, and both times a windows error message was shown on all of them

 

You can't legally run OS X on a PC, but it can be done. There are some minor problems with it (doesn't run 100%), but it does run, or so I've seen.

 

I think the case material switch had something to do with the increase of heat they have been having lately for their notebook lines. I guess they really wanna see how long they can hold out using the passive form of heat release.

 

Seriously? That's interesting. Does it run well enough to substitue for Win XP? And do you know what those minor problems are?

 

Whoever said the keyboard on the last iBook was better than the current Macbook is 100% right. The new keyboard feels mushy and nowhere near as solid.

My gripes:

Macbooks overheat like mad

No built in card reader (why? if you tout Macs as great for digital photogs, card reader should be standard faire!)

No express card slot

Until Apple solves the above three in a revision, I will stay away though admit I was seriously close to picking one up (keyboard killed it for me). Otherwise, the Macbook is a gorgeous machine.

 

You get used to the keyboard, I don't think its exactly that mushy, in a matter of fact I think its much quieter keyboard than any that I prevously used I prefer a quiet keyboard over a noisy clicky one.

Express card on macbook ain't gonna happen. Its like the one of the very few features that set the macbook and the pro apart!

I kind of agree with you on the card reader part, but then again I think it would end up making the macbook look a bit weird, having 3/4 slots on the side. It doesn't really bother me that I have to use a cord to connect my digital to the notebook.

 

How to run OS X (intel) on a PC:
http://osx86.theplaceforitall.com/howto/

I have no clue as to how well this works, but it would be very interesting to hear what people here think about this. If it actually works, I might consider this (thanks for the idea, Mr. Noob).

Almost like a sacrilege, isn't it? Heh, but then again I'm cheap

 

I tried it a while back, and it was far from perfect. Crashed 5 times during install and the nwas slow running after that. I don't believe it is a viable solution for anything more than fun.

For the guy that said MacBooks overheat like mad, please do a little research on what overheating is, what temperature the notebook you are talking runs at, what other comparable notebooks run at, and how the system is supposed to cool itself. Until you do that, please don't spew crap to others who are looking for real advice on their decision.

 

Thanks for the input on running OS X on a PC. But judging from the bias in the rest of your post I don't know how seriously I can take that answer.

 

I don't consider it bias since it is the truth. Overheating means that the computer does not perform. For instance the most common sign of overheating is shutting down. There are no widespread reports of that happening. If you look at the majority of the temps in Macbooks and MacBook Pros you will see they are pretty much in line with other CoreDuo laptops (50-60) Some do run a little hotter, but those are the earlier MBP, not the MacBooks. I think the other 2 arguments he made were valid, but to say they "overheat like mad" is not true and is just spreading FUD. Now if he were to say that Apple uses a passive cooling system which can lead to warm/hot case then that is one thing, but to say it overheats is just plain wrong.

 

True, but when you sit there with 1st grade burns on your thighs and hands, it doesn't really help much to wonder about the true meaning of 'overheating'. It's still an annoyance.

But you're right, and I agree that true overheating doesn't seem to be a common issue.

I am however a bit worried about all the people complaining about hot computer cases, but I guess I'll play around for an hour with one of the computers in the store and try it out....I just hope they'll let me stroll around in my boxer-shorts

 

LOL! I agree, I would rather see Apple turn the fans on a little more. I actually think what is causing the heat is the GPU. As i understand it, it is located in the center back which is the area that gets the hottest. Plus if you look around almost all the x1600 are underclocked, probably because they are too hot for a 15" notebook. I really think ATI and NVidia need to figure out how to get their cards running cooler.

As for OS X on non-Mac hardware, I really was interested in running it. It was suprisingly easy to install, albeit frustrating. After that it was slow and buggy. This was about 6 months ago, so maybe its been worked out. Maybe worth a shot if you aren't afraid of hosing your system. The problem is that OS X is obviously very proprietary and built to run an certain systems (Apple), so while it is possible to make it run, it will never be that good because you are working with a hack. Now if you kinda wanted to get the feel of it to see if you would want to switch, it may be a decent idea. You would of course have to ignore the slowness and many of the bugs. It would be more of a look and feel test. Hope that explains it a little better, and sorry I came off the way I did on the other post.

 

That explained everything perfectly, thanks for the post. And don't be sorry, it's easy to come off as this and that in written form (I tend to come off as a complete prick lol).

 

ok.. I am back with more questions...
went to the 5th Avenue Apple store in NYC today to check out the Macbook... and also try to get a sales guy to convince me to get a mackbook...
Well, first.. the macbook i decided to test had a frozen tool bar (or whatever that thing at the bottom of the screen is called).. I had an impression that only PCs froze .. and shifting to a Mac would avoid me having that trouble...
also, when I asked the sales guy why should I spend the extra buck for a Mac... the only reason he could give me was 'no virus' and OS X...
I was not convinced... virus is not really an issue.. if you have a virus on a PC/ Mac (because there ARE viruses for Mac)... the solution is the same... format and reinstall...
I was impressed with iChat but was disappointed to know I have to pay more for MS Word, etc. but can live with it....
I finally am trying to boil down my choices to
HP dv2000 AMD - 1090 (after hp rebates)
HP dz2000 Intel Core Duo 2 GHz- 1150 (after hp rebates)
MacBook - 1300 (from MacMall..)they have a $100 rebate but that expires july 16th.. not sure if I will buy the book before that... also have to add the cost of 512MB RAM from NewEgg..
(You might notice a pattern.. Integrated webcam)
$150+RAM to work with an apple.... Worth it????
Suggestions advise welcome....

Shikhar


PS... Am trying my luck at Atlantic City tomorrow.. if I can make even 100$ I would go for Mac at the drop of a hat... ;-)

 

There has been a lot of issues with the Macbooks. Ranging from them Apple failing to properly apply thermal paste on the CPU, causing overheating, to Apple "forgetting" to remove bits of plastic, causing overheating, to the casing getting miscoloured and a couple of other issues. Problems with hissing/"mooing" noises, early models had problems with the screen itself giving off a humming noise, and some cases of the battery being faulty. And Apple isn't exactly forthcoming about admitting and/or fixing these issues.

I think it's pretty clear that Apple's quality standards have slipped. Whether it's enough to give up on them and buy a different brand is what I'm debating atm.

ArsTechnica's review of the Macbook showed it running at over 80 degrees under load. (although that was probably due to one of the above issues)

Dell's problems are problems with Dell, not with PC's in general.

Nah, every OS can freeze. Linux, OSX, Windows. Some do it more than others, of course (Virtually everything is more stable than Windows 95, for example)
But Windows XP, for example, has pretty much caught up with the competition on stability. That's not to say it's caught up in every way (Installing/uninstalling is still a chore, although not as bad as Linux. And it tends to get bloated over time, mostly because of the install/uninstall issues)

Yeah, the power of zealots.
I agree, I too am considering buying a MacBook, but when I ask for reasons for or against, mentioning the name of an OS, without saying *why* just doesn't cut it. And the virus issue is just so dumb I can't take it seriously. There are viruses for Mac, and it's not that hard to avoid them on either OS.

That's just because until recently, PowerPC cpu's were more efficient at the same speed. a 1ghz PowerPC would run circles around a 1ghz Pentium 3 (or whatever we used back then). That's not due to anything Mac, just the cpu they used. (But no, it wasn't quite a 100% advantage as suggested above. a 800 mhz mac would not be as fast as a 1.6ghz PC)

What, that the Mac guy blamed all the problems on the PC guy?
Or that the PC's were more widely used, which means more opportunities for them to get screwed up? Or just that older versions of Windows sucked?
The only thing it gives me an idea of, is how apparently the Mac administrator knew what he was doing, and the PC one didn't.

Anyway, I'm in the same boat as the original poster. I'm looking to buy a laptop soonish, and a Mac would be cool, mostly because it'd allow me to run OSX *as well* as everything else.
But I've been hearing some mixed signals lately. Seems like quite a few people have had issues with theie Mac hardware, so I'm starting to doubt it a bit.

 

hey jalf,
that was quite a thorough analysis...
I also have read (mostly in NBR forums) that ppl have had problems with the MacBook...
but like xbandaidx says...
1. whether it be a Mac, DELL/HP... some ppl will have problems.... some oranges are sweeter than average.. some other oranges sour than average... this is a gamble with every brand... just that may be apple... the probablity of u getting a sour orange may be smaller... (well it will depend on which way you look at it...)
2. ppl always complain about what goes wrong... but if something works just fine then life just goes on.. so on the internet u will find more ppl complaining rather than ppl saying that their macbook is working just fine. i mean... if something is happening the way is should then there is no need to comment... right?? if you know what I am getting at....
you may want to contact xbandaidx on this gmail account... he is a new user of Mac and was very helpful in answering the questions I had....
I have almost decided on the Mac.. just because I want something different.... otherwise to me an avg day to day user.. it makes no difference if the notebook is white, black or silver; apple or dell or hp... as long as it allows me to chat, mail and surf the web....
Gud luck then....
ciao
Shikhar

 

I have been using PC's for almost 20 years. I just switched to a Macbook Pro 15.4" with the Intel Core Duo. I am very VERY happy. So far I haven't found anything to complain about, and I'm pretty picky. I'm still getting used to the machine running a little hotter than I'm used to, but there are so many pleasant surprises in OS X that I'm happy about. The Dashboard is cool, the dock works well, I'm getting used to the combination of the Dock and the apple bar at the top, I'm going to really try and wean myself of the right click (since I use the track pad most of the time it doesn't seem to be an issue - if you find it becoming an issue, you can use a two button mouse and program it for the right click).

I was a little lost on the first day without all the buttons for the hardware, but most of stuff is there on the macbook, you just have to find it.

Mine is the gray model, no discoloration so far. The ambient light sensor/lit kb thing is pretty cool... the display is GORGEOUS!

I dunno. If you're looking for something different... something that just WORKS, then the Macbook Pro might be worth checking into.

The only thing I'm having a hard time with is setting up the printer. I have been trying to do it over the network and might need to go hook it up via ethernet first. I will throw the disk back in and try it again first though.

I say switch. I did, and I'm glad.

 

For those not aware, the thermal paste explanation has been debunked. It has been show that reappling only reduce heat 2-3 degrees. Those that experienced bigger temp reductions likely disconnected the fan sensor on accident causing the fans to run constantly. It is easy to disconnect the sensor.

 

Well I see just about everything I said was attacked here.

Ok. I have not heard of the thermal paste one, but it seems that cashmonee addressed that one. First off the case issue has been addressed by Apple, anyone who has discoloration is suppose to call Apple's support line for replacement. Removing of plastic? Apple address this one as well, it seems like they contacted Asustek and told of them of some of the issues they were getting reported, I have yet to see any compliants of mooing lately as well. Early models? yeah thats right early models, it's been addressed. There were no battery issues that I have found yet, only battery issues for the macbook pro that I have.

Apple has just come forward and admited the case discoloration just a week ago, where have you been? When Macbook Pro had a new board to help support the heat issue that anyone who called in was told that they had updated it, and to send it in. Software Updates has also been giving out fixes as well, software updates are the RESPONSIBILITY of the user, not Apples.

The company Asustek that won the contract with Apple to produce the notebook line has reported to see HUGE business increase with Apple, they have to keep Apple happy right? So I'm sure any problems that Apple report such as missing plastic has been dealt with at the production company. I know when I got my Macbook, these 'plastics' weren't there.

I can tell you at least Apple is addressing their issues, it's showing they are staying faithful to their computer line while also juggling their iPod line.

I never said what Dell had problems was were all PCs, I was simply stating as an example I could go on and talk of Dells issues.

Wow, I have always keep tabs on Apple throughout the years, Apple has never had a PowerPC processor of the same speed out when PC did, when PC came out with 1 Ghz, Apple just started coming out with 600-800 Mhz processors, Apple would usually take months before they came out with the 'same' speed processor, but all thats irrelavant, becuase PowerPC and x86 architechture is completely different, they both run differently, PowerPC can cache commands that are used repeativily, thus speeding them up even more.

Not to mention software requirements as well, Apples version of whatever such as Apples own word processing from AppleWorks uses NO WHERE the same amount of system resources as word from microsoft on windows, the same goes for any other application. Apples products did not need such large system resource, thus why they never were worried about "Oh crap, PCs have 2 Ghz now?! we better get out 1.33Ghz G4 to G5 now!"

Agreed. I, do think this is the strategy they use from possible switchers, because most of the time they will ask you if you already have experience with Macs, if you say you do than they alter their strategy.

The Mac guy and PC guy thing, well The Mac guy didn't blame any of the issues the computers were having on the PC guy, we all knew because you would seem him in the halls (pc guy) all the time running around. The Mac guy was always in his office working contently.

I remember having problems on PC, and I didn't do anything. I will say the XP computers ran a bit better, but not much.

Also, don't listen to what other people have problems with so seriously with their new toy, people are picky as heck with something new, bad products get through from time to time, I should know I work at a production mill. It's nice knowing that Apple is addressing the issues though.

As for quality of my Macbook, it's excellent I feel that weight tells a lot about durability as well as quality, some people don't like weight but thats their opinion. I love how sturdy the case is as well, and especially how I can try to force the back of the LCD screen and see none of its effect on the front. Thats quality to me.

The whole heat thing, I honestly believe people need a burn-in period, if your a windows guy who has built computers, than you would know what a burn-in period is, well notebooks have them too, I have had my Macbook for a while now, its showing none of these problems in matter of facts its running cooler now too.