Should I buy a MacBook Pro? 13.3

Hello,
I've had a Lenovo T400s and returned for a full refund after 2 weeks of use. Why? Simply because it suffered from a high-pitched CPU whine that was very unpleasant to me (send it for repair, Lenovo could not do anything about it - seems that a lot of Thinks pads suffer from the same problem these days; in fact other business model high-end notebooks suffer from this too (e.g. the celebrated Viao Z11)

So here I am looking for an appropriate business model that will be PERFECT.
And finally I have began to seriously consider a MacBook as well. Now I will admit to you that I know very little about this non PC world and hope some of you can help me out here:

What I need: I travel a lot - need a portable but with a DVD. I do only office work (microsoft office+ surfing) + DVD watching. I actually don't need a high powered machine. I do need a machine that is around 4 pounds (i.e. portable), is reliable! (i.e. can have carry it around with me) and is QUIET! Do you think that MacBook Pro would meet my demands?

Now a few concrete questions:

1. MacBooks are renown for being silent. How silent are they really? I am really particular about this and want my computer to be SILENT - the less fan activity, the better. I work in quiet environments.What about overheating?

2. Recently people have complained that the build quality has gone down with Macs. Is that true? Would you say that MacBooks are in terms of build as solid as Lenovos? Is MacBook Pro a reliable machine?

3. Bootcamp and Windows: now this will sound probably crazy: but if if I didn't want to use Mac's OS but wanted to run Windows as my primary OS system. Is that possible and how does it really work? (i.e. I want Mac for its hardware, not software).

4. How good is the service support for MacBooks?

5. What is the quality of MacBook Pro speakers?

I know these are very general questions but any help will be appreciated.
thank you.

 

I need to ADD:
I don't do any GAMING whatsoever..I need the computer for office work and DVD/movie watching + internet surfing. I don't need a powerful CPU...for my needs anything will do.
Also: I want to use Windows XP or 7 for 2 reasons:
1. Compability issues (related to my work)
2. I have software (such as MS Office) which I have paid or and want to use it

Also, I've noticed that I can get now on Amazon the basic MacBook for as cheap as 1000USD. This is another argument for me why this computer than others.

 

The high pitch whine as far as I know is caused by the Intel processor when enters into a specific c-state. I bought an original MacBook Pro when Apple originally made the switched to Intel, went through like 3 different replacement notebook which they all had it. I then switched to a Thinkpad T60, which I also heard it on it from time to time. Point is it's not an Lenovo issue, its inherent to Intel's mobile processors.

 

Zappy, what is a c-state?
I can confirm that the whine issue must be related to Intel - have already debated it in other parts of this forum. What is strange though, that it seems to be a problem for some brands more than others - at least some people claim that MacBook Pros are generally dead silent while Lenovo suffer to greater or smaller degree from this problem.
Also, within the Lenovo line (e.g. T410s) some computer have it, others don't. This is a total mystery for me and something I just want to avoid when buying a new laptop. I've gone into much trouble ordering a t400s in order to return it - it all took time which I don't have. I will be leaving in less than a month for a field work to Japan and until then I have to have this situation solved.

 

1. About as silent as a dead person. Actually, you can hear the hard drive when you press your ears against the laptop, but otherwise, completely silent. Heh, I'm not sure if there is a fan inside. As for heat, the 13 inch stays remarkable cool. I know past Macs have had heating problems, but the current model has no problems with heat whatsoever.

2. Build quality is excellent, fit and finish is beyond reproach. The only weak part about the laptop is, I suspect, the hinge, which is plastic and feels cheap compared to the rest of the machine. Otherwise, no flex anywhere.

3. Haven't tried out Bootcamp yet.

4. Eh, don't really know.

5. A whole lot better than the ones on your T400s.

Also, the screen is so much nicer. Like, night and day nicer. Of course, if you're going to work outdoors, the glossy screen can be a detraction.

 

I have a T400 with a SSD and it is absolutely fabulous and s uper queit. I tried putting my ear to the keyboard and still could not hear any whine. Maybe your whine is coming from the harddrive.

That said the Macbook is very attractive mainly from what I read.

 

Just a note to the OP (since you sound like you're going to be primarily using Windows on a Mac); With every Mac I've owned I've ran Windows as well (XP then Vista and now 7) and I've noticed that, generally, doing the same stuff under OSX and Windows, when under Windows the machine got hotter faster and the fans kicked in sooner and to a higher RPM than under OSX.

Not to go into too much detail but it appears as though power management optimizations are much more polished under OSX than they are under Windows and so be careful comparing temps, fan speeds and loudness on a Mac when using OSX because it won't be the same under Windows. In this regard, you may be disappointed.

 

I tried it but in the end gave up.

Reasons:
-more heat
-less battery life
-touchpad doesn't work as good as under OS X

My advice: if you're buying a Mac run OS X. If you want to run Windows as your main OS buy a PC.

 

ATC and Phil, thanks for the advice. I've already looked up some information and it all seems to confirm your story. If i want a MacPro I've got to run OS X on it. Now if I was willing to do so, there's only one issue that I can't and don't want to change: MS Office 2003 - I need to use this packet. Is there a way how to run OS X but having Office on it? i.e. I don't want to purchase any additional software adjusted to Macs.
Also, how often are you really forced to purchase various software for Macs? My sense is that downloading programs for free from the web for Apple is not as simple. But as you can tell I have no experience with this.
Generally speaking I really use only MS office, web surfing (Mozilla) and DVD+film watching. These are all my needs and this won't change much in the future.

 

You're welcome.

MS Office is available for OS X. Or you could run Office in a VMware session. No problem.

 

The Office suite for OS X is quite different from that of Windows ... It will take some getting used to.

 

Phil, what is "VMware session"? Is it a software/virtual server that runs on top of OS X and allows me to use various Windows programs?
How does it work and how difficult or easy is it to install?

 

And I assume I'd have to buy it too?

 

Well there are other ways to obtain software like that for free. For instance, I'm a recent graduate ... I still have access to my university's online software catalog.

That aside though, software is software, the learning curve is there but you'll conquer it eventually.

I really think you should get the Macbook Pro. Yes it has yesterday's hardware but it is no slouch performance wise. I am an engineer and I didn't think software could make such a difference ... OS X runs on it amazingly. I haven't encountered any slowdown whatsoever.

It just feels like it's the perfect laptop in the 13" category. I am really impressed with the overall package. It feels solid, as in there's hardly any flex in the chassis. the screen is nice to look at (only indoors, outside it becomes a mirror).

Now the things I don't like about it ... Slot loading DVDs are a little noisier than the tray equivalents; but hey, small price to pay for a cool looking machine. How often do people even use optical drives these days anyway? It's just nice to know it's there.

I don't like that the screen is so glossy, I mean, I am using this thing exclusively indoors so it's not an issue ... But in the event I have to use it outside one day ... I'll have a hard time seeing what's on the screen.

Uh, can't really think of anything else ... Even the above two I mentioned, I had to think hard about. I really like my macbook pro ... Now I understand why Apple still uses core2duo ... They can still achieve respectable performance as they make up for it in software.

 

Virtual Box which is free, as well as VMWare and Parallels which aren't free.. all run virtual computers on top of OSX so you can install Windows and run Windows programs in the virtual machine.... you have to have a Windows license to install and run.

Crossover Mac supports running MS Office Windows version on a Mac directly without requiring Windows.

 

How does that even work? Is it memory intensive? I'm interested in having MS Visio on my MBP ... It's a program I have become so used to and it's not available natively for OS X.

 

virtual machines are quite intensive... they definitely need a strong processor and plenty of memory... a couple extra gig for the VM is nice.

Crossover uses Wine, which is just an implementation of Windows APIs so that the software runs directly. I believe MS Office and Visio are both supported programs running on it. Wine has to translate some things.. like Direct3D to OpenGL and such... so there is some loss in speed vs running native in Windows, but not nearly the loss you see in a virtual machine. Depending on how well the app runs, it will run from around 70% to 95% as fast/good as it would run on Windows on the same machine. Being Office and Visio are supported apps, they run better than most others.

 

Have you considered using openoffice?
I moved from MS office to openoffice since it is free and
it is compatible with ms office. Also it looks and feels the same
in windows and OSX. Functionality wise so far I have not missed anything
and it has supprised me on how good it is actually.
Give it a try, after all it is free

 

Silent, I use it at home some times just to keep things quiet, stock HDD makes some noise when seeking, not surfing, etc. but thats it. Never heard processor noise, I would be kinda pissed if I did though

NOT true at all for me so far, initial, and my 3 week review is unparalleled. My dad had a little lenovo touchscreen, and I feel the MBP is above that quality, and solidity.

Never used it yet but I know people who do and they like it. I never thought I would say this, a year ago I would have killed me, but once you get used to the mac os x its hard to use windows, just cause it takes a little more effort and time to do everything, and the seconds add up...

Supposedly great, I havent had anything go wrong, but from everyone I know who has ever owned one, the loved it and the service, that helped me to start looking this way...
All my applecare support calls have been great...

Decent for a laptop, get load enough for me so far, not as good as the Envy 15, though I dont know about the 13...

 

I was thinking the same thing. I don't like paying for software.

 

Hello everybody,
I have to say that I have begun to seriously consider this option. I've had a look at a real MacBook Pro today and liked it - felt solid, was silent, had a good screen....all in all it's probably inevitable I will have to try a Mac once in my life too. Thank you for telling me about the possibilities with MS Office.

Now allow me to ask you the following: what MacBook Pro should I buy? I know there are various generations and I can see that some new MacBook Pros on Amazon can be as each as 1000USD. I have money so I can spend more, just don't know whether it's necessary. Your recommendations + where to look for good deals?
thank you all.

 

Take the new 2010 base model (2.4 GHz, 4GB, 320GB). Better CPU, more memory, bigger hard drive and up to 10 hours battery life.

It's $1199 at Apple.com. Usually there are ceaper deals on Ebay with Bing cash back and (r)etailers.

 

x2
its the best "value" of all the macs

 

Sorry Moosez3, could you tell me what x2 is? i am still now well versed in the Apple lingo.
I've found that Apple offers 100USD discount for students. I might use that and buy the computer through my friend who is in grad. school. That is probably the best deal out there, right? (i.e. buy it from Apple store with a 100USD discount)

 

The x2 means "times two" as in that he agreed with my advice to buy the base 2010 model.

If you can get the student discount that would be great. Sometimes there's also a deal for students that includes a printer and a free iPod. Might be worth researching.

 

I see. Phil, as i am looking at the Apple Store and the base model I see that there are not too many customizable items on the MPB (unlike, e.g.,when I buy Lenovo etc.). I am also puzzled as to why extra 4GB RAM (i.e. 8GB ) would cost 400USD more? That sounds like a very steep price to me? Is there a way one could buy these extras elsewhere and install them without voiding the warranty?
Also, when it comes to warranty, there's a standard 1 year included with the MacBook, isn't that right? Can you extend it to 2-3 years and is it worth it?
Last but not least, would you know whether OS X has a good support of East Asian Languages (specifically Japanese)? I've already posted a separate thread on this but maybe you would know. thank you again.

 

Why would you want more than 4GB?

One stick of 4GB can be very expensive so I'm not surprised by $400.

It's easy to install a SSD or a 500GB 7200rpm drive yourself, w/o voiding warranty.

AppleCare is very cheap on Ebay. And yes that may be worthwhile if you plan on keeping your laptop for three years.

 

you can buy the memory yourself elsewhere and put it in. Memory upgrades from a vendor (not just Apple) are always a bit more expensive... but getting two 4gb memory sticks to get to 8gb is not cheap. Crucial.com charges $499 for a pair of 4gb sticks for the Macbooks. at other online stores you can buy a couple of brands cheaper than that... but will still cost around $320 bare minimum to buy the ram to put it in yourself. 2gb sticks are much much cheaper than 4gb sticks.

 

As for more than 4GB...I thought (still in the windows world that in case i need to run some WM7 programs having more memory would be good.But maybe it's excessive for what I want from the computer.

Phil, i can get AppleCare for 183 USD (with the student discount).
But then I saw this:
Can cheap AppleCare on eBay be trusted? | Wise Bread
So it seems it's possible to get ebay Apple Care for 3 years for as little as 100-130USD. that's fabulous.
You say that it's easy to install the SSD myself: there probably isn't any room for two drives...so if I wanted to have SSD (I imagine this helps boost the peformance on Macs as much as it does on Windows) I would have to get that one and get rid(sell the one I am going to buy--500GB). How much are approximately good SSDs today?

 

4GB will be enough for your programs I expect. More than enough.

Good SSD: $400 for 160GB Intel 160 GB Internal hard drive
$200 for 80GB http://www.google.com/products/cata...-JL4my-QbgsoXRDQ&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

I said easy, well it's easy if you know how to handle a screwdriver (torx). And there's many guides on google and youtube that show you how to do it.

 

As a recent first time OSX user and MacBook Pro owner I will give you my experiences after a mouth of ownership with my MBP. The quick background is my company is testing out integration of Macs in our previously all windows/VM-Ware environment, I am lucky enough to work in the IT department and I got a nice shiny top of the line 15” model, well it was the top of the line model until the current core i5/i7 lineup came out two weeks after I got mine! But mine is still plenty powerful with a 2.8 GHz C2D, 4 GB of RAM and a 500 GB 5400 RPM HDD which is the only bottleneck IMO and I am going to be replacing it with an 80 GB Intel SSD very soon. And yes that is super easy to do, I have already taken mine apart to get the hard drive out and it was very simple, they even tell you how to do it in the manual. Here is a picture of it opened with the bottom plate off…



As for your questions...

1. I too cannot stand loud computers, esp. laptops and my MBP is the quietest notebook I have ever used as well as the only notebook I have used that I could not heard it kicking into overdrive so to speak, you know when things reach a certian temp and the fan kicks in full blast, well that never happens with the MBP, maybe because it has two fans that spin at a low RPM but I have never heard them even when my CPU was at 170 F. Also the HDD in mine is silent and if you get an SSD that will be silent as well.

2. The build quality of my MBP if second to none, I will put it this way, it feels well built and sturdy when you use it and after getting used to it every HP, Dell, Lenovo, other brand I touch feels cheap in comparison and I find flaws like flexing around the keyboard or something like that. And I used to think that Lenvo's were built the best, and while I still think they are good they are not built nearly as well as this is.

3. No Comment here as I have yet to use BootCamp.

4. Again No Comment as I have not had to use it yet so no experiences.

5. Eh wrong person to ask, I love high end Audio so to me anything short of a 2.1 setup using studio monitors and a 10" powered sub sounds like crap and laptop speakers always sound like crap to me no matter what. That said they could suck a lot worse and at least there are two of them. If you are not a sound snob like me they should be fine as they are clear enough and can be heard when you turn them up, I would still recommend using headphones however.

I think you would love the 13" MBP and power wise it should be fine, the CPU is fast and 4 GB of RAM is plenty, the only thing you may want to consider upgrading is the HDD but you may be fine with the one it comes with. There are some things that peeve me off with my MBP and I wont get into them here but stuff like how I had to pay $100 for an adapter to use my 30" LCD at its 2560 x 1600 resolution and that adapter is sometimes flaky and hogs a USB port for power, and since measly two USB ports they give you are so close together I sometimes cannot plug another device into the other port. Also they removed the express card slot for an SD slot, that move made me cry as I had to get a new USB Aircard which again when in use blocks my only other USB port so I cannot even use most of my thumb drives at the same time. The general lack of ports makes me mad, two USB isn't a big deal in the office where I have a 4 port hub, but on the road it can really be a pain to deal with. Also in addition to the $100 Dual Link DVI Adapter I also have to carry two others around with me, mini displayport to VGA and mini displayport to DVI. That was more money, more stuff to get lost or damaged and just a general pain. I do like how I can use VGA, DVI and HDMI with one interface but they could not have used a normal displayport interface? Common the port isn't that big, it is no taller than the RJ-45 jack but supposedly it would not fit because the laptop is so slim, just a ploy to make more money from adapter sales IMO. At least you can get them for $8 a piece online at places like Monoprice instead of paying $30 each from Apple. Anyway I went off on a rant, get the MAC you will love it bottom line.

 

just be sure to not get the Monoprice HDMI adapter if you want to do audio... it will do video only on the 2010 Macbook Pros even though they support audio... make sure if you get a HDMI adapter, it specifically has been tested and works right with audio on the 2010 models.

 

Matt_Smi,
great write-up. Thank you.
There is no way I am not going to buy MacBook anymore. I am buying today!!!
Honestly I've been doing a lot of research in the last 14 days and was going crazy: couldn't go back to Lenovo for the whine issues I mentioned. was not sure about the new Vaio Z not just because it's so expensive but because i was not certain of the build quality. Was thinking about many other computers,...and i have to tell you, without having to flatter anyone, that the reviews I get form Mac users border on unbelievable=...while you willl always find people who complain about the best PC machines it's very hard for me to find much negative feedback on Macs. I guess this sold me on it. I still dont like the fact that I willl be giving up or leaving the Windows world but life is change. Honestly a few days ago I would never have considered bying a Mac. For compability issues but also because it is a sort of "image" product for a few people who I am surrounded by - liberal academics. I am also in the business of academia myself. But as I said, so far I have just not been able to find people who would say anything negative that would really make me think twice.
And I LOVE WHEN COMPUTER ARE SILENT!!! Somehow they stop making silent computers in the PC world.

 

Thanks for the heads up and that is good to mention is case other users read this, I have the "mid 2009 model" so mine does not support audio out via the Mini Displayport so it didn't matter to me, I ended up getting the Cables to Go brand Cables To Go video / audio adapter - DisplayPort / HDMI and other Audio/Video Cables at CDW.com
It works fine for my needs and if I want Audio I just use a mini optical to Toslink cable I have to get digital out from the MacBook, yeah I need two cables with with the amount I have to carry anyway its not a big deal.

But for those who do have a newer 2010 MacBook Pro and wish to have video/audio passed though the HDMI adapter then make sure it specially says that it will support Audio out function, right on the Monoprice website in red it says theirs does not and on the cable to go site it says "*Audio signal is not supported through the HDMI output." Like you mentioned a few vendors have been authorized by Apple to sell Mini Displayport to HDMI adapters that DO pass audio as well as video signals, one vendor that comes to mind and has a fair priced adapter is made by SendStation
SendStation - Products - Mini DisplayPort Adapter

It says on that page that "All SendStation Mini DisplayPort Adapters are built under license from Apple" and that the HDMI adapter supports digital audio if it is supplied though the MDP connector and then it says "currently not on any Mac model" which is incorrect they just need to update their website.

That is the one I would get if I needed audio, I did find some cheapish no name one that claimed to support audio as well for $8 but it certainly was not built under license from Apple. I wonder why Apple doesn't release their own adapter? Doesn't make any sense as they could be making a ton of money off it, I believe I heard a tech at the Apple store say they were coming out with one soon, which would make sense as they prob wanted to wait and release one that supports audio to not further people off who had already bought their "video only adapter".

 

Christina85,

Also to make your decision easier, the screen on the Macbook 13 is by far the best in the 13 inch category of notebooks which was one of the reasons I decided to purchase this laptop. This MBP 13 will be my first apple product, but I am really excited about this change from windows.

 

It is a really good screen. I wouldn't say the best. Sony Z and HP Envy 13 have very good screens. Both are more expensive than the base MBP of $1199.

 

I have compared all 3. IMHO, MBP 13 has the best screen. The Z has these diagonal lines on its screen and it's very annoying. The Envy 13 has a nice screen too. Again, my opinion is very subjective nonetheless.

 

I've compared the Macbook Pro with Sony Z. I've never seen diagonal lines on a Sony Z.

For a more objective comparison of the screen quality:
Notebookcheck: Test Sony Vaio VPCZ11X9E/B Notebook
Notebookcheck: Test Apple MacBook Pro 13 Mid 2009 2.53 GHz

The Z is a lot brighter and has a larger gamut. It's also usable outside. The Macbook Pro is nearly impossible to use outside. The screen isn't that bright and the glass layer causes many reflections. And of course Sony offers 1600*900 and 1920*1800 resolution, while MBP only offers 1200*800.

 

Yeah my sense is that the Vaio's Z screen will be very good. On top of it I like matte screens...don't really like glossy. But then again a glossy screen is better than a poor screen overall. I think that using computer outside is a bit of an overrated issue - how many of us do really use their computer outside? Sometimes in coffee shops, maybe. But generally you are likely to be in a closed room when using your laptop. Also, the basic Vaio starts at 1900$. Of course it's got SSD etc. but still this is a few hundred dollars more. And I am still doubtful about the general build quality..e.g. it still uses plastic where your palms are.

 

I would rate the build quality of the MBP higher than the Sony Z. So do Notebookcheck and Notebookjournal.

Sony Z is extremely light though. With 1.388 kg it's as light as the Macbook Air. Which is pretty amazing considering the specifications.

 

As far as i'm aware Notebookjournal haven't reviewed the new Z yet.

I've also read that new 13" MBP has a brighter display than the last gen model.

Also, you can buy a Z for $1,699
Micro Center - Sony VAIO VPC-Z112GX/S - Silver

 

Do you have a link for that?

 

I read it on the macrumors forum Phil.
This is one post, other members also have said the same thing.
Mac Forums - View Single Post - Why do 13" MBP screens look better than PC laptops?

 

It would be nice if it's true but I doubt anything has changed.

Let's wait for the measurements to come in.

What's also not helping is that the 2009 MBP 13 can use about 6 different panels. Some of them are brighter than others.

 

You might be right there Phil. I've seen you mention some part numbers for the older model that are being mentioned in this current thread here.
New MBP 13' LCD Panel? - Mac Forums

Edited to add:

My mistake i read that thread and although there seems to be several displays the 9CC2 that i saw mentioned actually belonged to the last gen MBP.

 

as of now I have officially become another member of the Apple/Mac/OS X family . I just purchased my first MacBook Pro - 2,4, 13.3, 320GB. Bought it with B&hphotovideo for 1248$. I'll get 30$ or so from Bing back (thus 1210$) and this mac comes with Parallels 5.0 installed as a bonus.
Thank you all for your help and input.

 

Congrats. Are you sure it comes with 320GB HD? I think the base model comes with 250GB.

 

Yes, I've ordered the one with 320GB...that's why the price is a bit higher. Have I ordered the base model I would have paid only 1099 with MacMall (after 100$ rebate).

 

Ah ok. I didn't know B&H offered different configs, that's cool.

 

Not true at all. The issue is high brightness of ambient light or lighting sources behind you.

In other words if you are in a room with a lot of windows and the sun at your back or if you have a light or lamp from behind you, then you do find that the glossy will reflect that light into your eye and you have a hard time seeing your screen as well. Or you strain your eyes trying to cope with it, same as if I was shining a soft loght directly into your eye for a long time.

So actually the situation comes up quite often. And you dont have to be outside to experience it.