Running Windows on a Macbook

Hi everyone.

I'm going to uni next year to study CSc and have been told nearly every system they run is an XP machine. I also checked what software they run, and it turns out the majority aren't available for the mac. I asked them what would be best for the course and they told me I would get better support if I had a PC and that there may be workarounds for macs. However, the person I spoke to (head of faculty) has no experience whatsoever with OS X.

Anyway, the thing is I want to keep my current macbook mainly because I find it hard to part with and the second being I don't have the cash to dish out on another notebook of comparable quality.

The question: Which version of Windows (XP/Vista/7) runs best on a Macbook?

By this I mean which has the greater support (drivers), and is most stable to work with (incl/ battery life, less glitches etc).
Also, will Snow Leopard provide better compatibility with Windows and how? Thank you in advance for any information you can provide me with.

 

Snow Leopard is irrelevent since all you are interested in is bootcamp - basically an added layer that allows windows to be installed.

It's very very easy, and in my humble opinion, XP FTW, especially in your case when every computer around you will be XP.

Just go into OSX, partition for bootcamp....well, just look at this guide. It's a little old, but still valid

http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how_do_i_install_windows_xp_on_my_mac_using_boot_camp_1.html

HTH

 

But is it true Apple has to write the drivers for XP themselves? What does this entail and how far have they gone to perfecting it? As i've heard of macs overheating when running windows.
Also, if the Windows partition becomes corrupted somehow by a virus or for whatever reason, would it effect the OSX partition? Would this mean i'd have to format the whole hard drive? Sorry about all the questions, i'm just a very cautious person.

Edit: It's threads like this that make me nervous.

 

The vast majority of people experience no issues at all. Have a google around for "the best windows machine is a mac" and see all the people LOLZING at how a mac is better running windows than PC's are. There are even people who have bought a mac and mostly run windows on it.

I've heard of macs overheating when running OSX too. Given the amount of technology out there at the moment, pick any item and about 5% of the userbase will have god awful problems with it. The problem is that these 5% whine about it, while the 95% experiencing no problems stay silent. It makes problems look worse than they are.

Some people swear blind that the new unibodies overheat like crazy. I have not experienced this at all. So it's swings and roundabouts really. YMMV.

Err, don't think so? Unless the virus destroys the partition setup itself maybe? Haven't heard of a virus doing that mind you.

I'm pretty confident in saying no. I haven't experienced a virus on windows for years though.

Nope. Just follow the link I showed you. You just get boodcamp to create an isolated little space on the HDD for Windows, then just install windows on it and it only effects that partition.

See above. You'll always get that. Someone somewhere will have so many problems and issues that their computer will actually acheive awareness and kills children. Doesn't mean that yours will though.

As I said, some people swear blind that the unibodies are buggy, fragile, overheat and break so often that they are worse than PC's. Mine doesn't, and nor does most.

 

Thanks again for the quick replies. You've been a big help and I think I will be sticking with the Macbook. Repped.

 

And.. that is like what.. 2-3 years ago's old news. Right now, the most powerful windows based laptop (about as expensive as mid end macbook pro) are much more faster than any or even the most expensive macbook/pro.

Anyways.. that's beside the point.

Apple does indeed write their own driver for Windows, but they're far from perfect.

1) The power mangement driver for Windows is horrible. Expect 25-50% loss of battery run time when running windows.

2) Expect higher operating temperature due to faulty EC driver (which doesn't properly control the fan speed) and the some what none functional power mangement driver.

3) Some user claimed the touchpad isn't as reliable/feature rich as in OSX.

Other than the top 3 points, you should be able to run Windows on a Mac smoothly without much trouble.

 

Other than running Boot Camp natively, the second option is purchasing VMWare Fusion or Parallels.

You'll need more memory (4GB recommended), but it'll run perfectly fine with 2GB-3GB. It'll be slightly slower since it's a virtual machine, but the performance is acceptable. I run this to bridge both OS X and Windows apps together and most people are "astonished" with what I'm able to do on both operating systems. You can drag drop files from both systems, install MacFuse + NTFS3G and you'll have a cross-file transfer ability. With features like "unity" or parallel's equivalent you can have applications unified with the OS X dock and have them overlaying your OS X apps.

Personally I run Vista on VMWare and I've basically bypassed all the Vista driver issues and stuff mentioned from Jackluo above since VMware supplies fully tested vista drivers within the VM. Same can be applied via Parallels. If I need to run Boot Camp natively, I can simply just reboot the system. I find myself booting OSX + VMWare bootcamp more often than actually booting Windows Vista alone. Of course if you need to play games and such, Vista is the only way.

 

D3X:

I want to buy a MacBookPro and use it with Windows XP through VMFusion or Parallels for some applications, such as Visual Studio 2008, MS Office 2007 and others etc. Could you please answer me these questions:

1. Are 4GB enough?
2. Is the VM Windows speed good enough? Do you do any compilation, java or c++?
3. Is there any particular reason why you used VM Fusion over Parallels?
4. Can you drag and drop files between your running VM Fusion XP and OS X?
5. Can you create an VM Fusion image from an existing XP installation?

Currently I use a Dell XPS laptop with windows XP at work but I grew tired of Windows XP and the permanent fear of getting viruses by simply going to some website. And I have to tell you, I hate having to run anti-viruses (I am not running one). And Vista, I shouldn't even begin talking about it. I have heard that Windows 7 just looks like Vista - even though there seems to be a current of opinion that windows 7 is much better than Vista but I have my doubts and I don't have spare hardware to install the MS crap. So, I want to do the switch for other reasons as well.

Thanks

 

Yes. Depending on how much Ram you give your Virtual machine. For my Vista, I assign 1.8GB and it runs fine.

I would say yes, but be aware that there will be slower performance to whatever you will be compiling compared to running it natively. I don't see a huge problem if your doing any type of programming though. I'm a UI graphic designer and I use my VM to use Visual Studio 2008 with no problems what so ever.

Not really. Was by personal experience, I had a little bit of trouble with Parallels in the past and gone the other way this time around just to try it out.

You can only drag and drop files from your VM to OS X. Not the other way around. For OS X to access the VM,, you'll need to set up a SMB network connection. You can also setup document sharing, which sets up specific folders in which the VM could access.

You mean Boot Camp partition? Yes. Both Parallels and VMWare can do that.

 

Thanks for your answers!

At 5 I meant to take a Hdd with an Win XP installation and create a VM Fusion, let's say, image.

 

So you're argument is that Windows has gotten slower on Mac's compared with just a year and a half ago? Just because the benchmarks were done 18 months ago doesn't make them less valid in any way at all :/

The most expensive windows based laptop costs a shed load more than a macbook pro.

The point is here is whether Windows on a mac is usable for the OP. The answer is that not only is it usable, it will give him better performance than all but the most high powered and expensive Windows laptops.

I haven't experienced any of those issues, and nor has my friends with mac's.

Not saying you haven't experienced issues or anything, just that it's disingenious to try to say that those three problems are in any way typical. They aren't. Most people use bootcamp without a single issue.

 

Actually the three issues that Jack posted are pretty relevant to Macs when they boot into Windows via bootcamp. Well more so numbers 1 and 2. You get a lot less battery life then you compare it to OS X because of their power management driver but not 25%-50%, something like 10-15%.

If you look through this forum you will see several posts about those issues mentioned above when running Windows via Bootcamp on a Mac.

 

Personally, I'd leave it as "Macs can run Windows very, very well. And you have nice options regarding how to do it."

The rhetoric about the best Windows machines being Macs is little more than PR fluff, IMO.*

Unless you like the added security of a virtual machine for your sketchy internet needs. But I don't think that's what most folks have in mind (-:

 

The battery issue isn't a bug. In Windows Boot Camp, the 9600GT is the active video card whereas in OS X you get to toggle between Performance(9600GT) or Battery (9400M).

 

Please reread what I've wrote.
I did not say that Windows will run on Mac slower after 18 month. I'm saying that macbook/pro is far from best Windows Machine hardware wise at the current situation. Windows based laptop can now be more than twice as fast as the best Macbook/Pro. And the price isn't steep either. $1500-$2000 will get you a killer quadcore laptop which pretty much beats the best Macbook in cpu, gpu, hdd and all other main specs.

It's true that the most expensive laptop will cost you a fortune, upwards of 10K for some of those custom made ones. It's like comparing a ford with a ferrarri. Mac is the Ford and Ferrarri is those ultra expensive everything custom built niche laptops. Macs have absolutely no competition there thus you can't compare a Mac with those machines.

Performance wise, if the laptop has the same configuration, it'll perform roughly the same. Though, with windows based laptops, a.k.a "PC, in apple's marketing term", you'll get better value for roughly the same hardware configuration. Most of the time, you're strictly looking for performance or value, "PC" is no doubt the best option.

Problems are user dependant. Some people chose to see those 3 points as nothing and some people see them as a major problem.

 

Every single thing you wrote screams "I hate macs"

A quad core windows Laptop that blows a Macbook out of the water for $1500? Not on this planet. Does it come with a pony too?

Also, i'd love to see the 1 second battery life on such an overpowered laptop.

Please stop saying that your issues with macs apply to everyone. They don't apply to me or anyone else I know with a mac.

 

Just because Mac OS isn't for me doesn't mean I hate it.

Bestbuy has HP HDX laptop with intel quadcore Q9000 processor, 4GB of ram, 500GB hdd, nvidia 9600MGT for $1850. Base Macbook Pro 17" cost $2799 from apple.
The quadcore laptop's battery will last more than 2 hours.

Again, I don't hate Mac. I'm just pointing out that there are a number of issues regarding to running windows in bootcamp on a Macbook/pro. Whether these issue is a problem for you, it's your own opinion. Some people don't care about battery life because their laptop is always plugged in. They might not regard the partially faulty ACPI driver issue a problem to them.

 

just because macs are expensive doesn't mean the user shouldn't buy it. If you like a mac, just get it. I run windows 7 RC and os x without any issues at all and i thank Bill Gates for solving all these issues with (mac hardware+Windows Vista). Not a single issue since i installed it nearly(in a few days) one month ago

 

Im with Jack on this one. I love my Mac. Its great. But when it comes down to it, for the price of this Mac, 1900, I could have gotten a super powerful PC with better specs in a heart beat. And there are issues with running bootcamp. I've had a few, posted a few threads to get answers and whatnot. However, Macs do run better with windows, despite the bad battery life that I and other have experienced, then most sub $1200 PC laptops. That is another reason I like my Mac, its two computers in 1.

And just because someone doesn't use Leopard, doesn't mean they are a Mac hater. It is a good OS, but sometimes people feel better using what they are used to, don't like the differences, etc. From what I read, Jack wasn't Mac bashing in any way.

 

i'm with jack on the three bullet points he made.

whether or not users notice it, this is actually a long running problem, affects 100% of users, and still hasn't been fixed.

there are ways to deal with it:

1. plug in to solve the power management problem
2. get an external mouse to solve the trackpad problem
3. set the fans in OSX with smcfancontrol and reboot without turning off

but these problems limit the "laptop" usability of the machine, so if windows is your primary OS, you might actually want to look somewhere else. the cost of thing is pretty high to have to give up most of your portability.

 

I never get it when people say crap like this. If you know that you can get "Super Power PC" with better specs then why didn't you just get it? So weird how people will contradict themselves saying they can get a better PC for way less but then buy a Mac anyway. By saying this you just counterpoint your own point.

 

There are other reasons for buying a mac besides the hardware configurations.

It's like getting an Ipod video vs Zune

Zune has better spec and cost less, but some people prefer to buy an iPod video instead.

 

As usual you always have a rude reply to me like your eyerolling. And of course you didn't get my point? Why would you? Yes, people do have other reasons for spending the money on a Mac but it's nonsense to say that you could've gotten a way better PC for a lot less money and buy a Mac anyway.
There are dozens of cars with more features for less money than the one I own but buy why acknowledge this as if what I bought was a waste of money because that's how the other poster wrote it.
I stand by what I say, it makes no sense to crap on how overpriced Macs are and say you can get so much more on a cheaper PC and buy the Mac anyway. It's obviously not overpriced if you decided to buy it.

 

You didn`t under stand his post....
What he`s saying is that for $1900 (the price for his Mac), he can easily get a much more powerful `PC`. He never said his purchase was a waste of money so you can't assume that.

"it makes no sense to crap on how overpriced Macs are and say you can get so much more on a cheaper PC and buy the Mac anyway"

It makes sense to me and many other people here, except you're the only one of "crap" about it.

 

Oh, I see you become a fanboy for other posters on here by defending them. People can defend themselves okay? You seem to feel the need to correct people and defend others.

 

this thread is devolving quickly into a mac vs. pc fight, like half of them in this forum. there are reasons to buy a mac, but running windows and outperforming a similar priced pc isn't one of them. that's a given. anyone saying otherwise needs their head examined. (cavaet: i'm a mac and pc and find running windows 7 on my mac kind of pointless)

 

I recently bought a 15" MBP to replace my aging T60. I could have easily spent less for something similar to the MBP, or gotten a monster for the same price. However:

1) Any other laptop at this price point with respectable specs is also 15lbs+. I need the portability because I travel a lot for work; yet I want something that can easily play some casual games.

2) I need something simple and stable when I travel, so I'm not spending more time troubleshooting than working. While it's not always a problem, my T60 and I have had some....arguments.

3) My wife has a white MB and with the MBP, we can talk over iChat when I'm on the road; which is great for seeing my 6-month-old daughter when I can't be there.

4) Finally, I'm having a LOT of fun playing with OSX and Windows on one machine as well as poking my way through the intricacies of OSX.

Could I have found something better? Yes. Could I have found something better that I could travel with and see my wife on? No.

 

Which 15" laptop weighs 15 lbs. and haven't you ever heard of Skype(which is at rev. 3.x and I'm stuck on 2.7 for mac ) ?

Edit: a Thinkpad T400 with the same resolution as the 15" MBP is lighter...the T500 with much more resolution too.

 

Everyone has their reasons for buying PC or Mac. Which ever the reason, it's best for that person at the time. Let's just leave it at that. And you three are lucky I'm not a mod, or I'd be sending you to sit in the corner for awhile facing the wall with dunce caps on.

 

(tries desperately to veer conversation back on topic)

I have a brand new unibody 17" coming next week. I'm going to be throwing a 500GB hard drive in it, splitting the drive into two partitions, and going OS X / Windows 7. I haven't used Boot Camp before so I'm curious what functionality "changes" I'll have to make.

Are the various drivers for the laptop devices governed strictly by Apple? I mean can I use "nVidia's leaked driver of the week" in Windows on a Mac? I don't want to get stuck some some relic outdated Apple-specific graphics driver -.-;

How does the trackpad work in Windows? How is right-click done? Can I still tap with two fingers? I don't need the multitouch functionality, and I'll probably use a mouse a lot anyway, but as long as I can left and right click I don't need much more.

 

The only way you can get nvidia drivers to install (other than from the OS X intall disc) is to use a customized driver from laptopvideo2go. I downloaded once from nvidia, and it refused to install, stating my hardware was not supported. Obviously Apple wants to keep us using their driver only (which is not necessarily bad, I haven't had any issues with games whatsoever except one, but that's because it just hates new hardware).
Bootcamp just partitions the drive for you, and gives you a convenient UI to do it all from, then it asks you to insert your windows cd, and you click reboot and it goes from there like normal.
Running windows in bootcamp is native, so you wont get any performance hit from it. The EFI (which apple computers use) is backward compatible with BIOS, so it functions at native speed.

 

There is also Nvidia System Tools with ESA. This is completely new and comes with updater for drivers. http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia_system_tools_6.03.html

I've been using it on my boot camp, completely flawless and tons of performance features.

 

This is nothing new. nVidia has generally relied on the OEMs to handle driver releases, they only have a couple of actual "stock" laptop drivers. My main concern was the compatibility in general. I'm also curious about the 9400M/9600M thing, and how Windows handles these two chips.

 

Anyone know if Apple will update the Windows drivers for BootCamp when they release Snow Leopard?

 

False.

Recently (as of a few months ago) nvidia started supporting their mobile gpu's with the latest drivers.

You can literally go to the nvidia site and download the latest driver for your apple laptop (in windows).

I recommend not using laptopvideo2go hacked drivers when you can just get the stuff straight from nvidia.