Please convince me :-)

Hi guys,

I will get a new laptop this xmas and since I can't wait, I'm already looking around for which one to buy!
As you probably guessed, I'm looking towards a Mac (i woudn't be here otherwise ) and more specifically at the 15" mbp.

But I'm quite fond of online gaming (counter-strike in particular) and therefore still on whether or not I should really buy a mbp...

But on the other hand, I'm getting tired of windows... but unfortunately, can't do without for some games..

Also, is it possible, and if it is, is it a good idea to run bootcamp from a USB/external HDD to play my windows games??

Waiting eagerly your advices!!

 

It's easy to run Windows on Mac. I use a program called Q. I have the 15" MBP and could never recommend a better piece of kit. I heard someone managed to get steam to run directly off the OSX operating system but this is very difficult if indeed possible.

 

I play F.E.A.R. on my 17" Macbook Pro under Windows Vista using Bootcamp. I've yet to run into a single problem. F.E.A.R. runs MAX/MAX with 1680x1050 set as the resolution.

 

thanks guys, that is a really good motivation that will certainly seal my choice!!

but: running bootcamp on USB/external HD; possible? do you need to run the antivirus on windows or not?

 

If it's just old games like Counter Strike you want to play, then you will be able to play them without a problem using a Virtual Machine such as Parallels or VMWare. I occasionally play CS via Parallels on my GMA950 Macbook, and it works flawlessly. On a MBP, I would expect you will be able to run games like HL2, WoW, CS:S etc. without a hitch in a VM.

If you are fully set on using Boot Camp, you will be able to run a Windows partition from an external drive if the drive was Firewire. Macs, just like Windows, is unable to boot from USB. However, Firewire is fine.
I currently do not have anti virus installed on my Windows partition, but if you feel the need to, then do so. The Windows OS on your partition in Boot Camp/VM is just as vulnerable as any other Windows OS.

 

ok thank you Budding.
Well no, i just assumed bootcamp was best to play windows games. But if you say that counter strike would play without lags....then i'll try!

when you play, i guess you don't use the Mac mouse...which one do you use and do you use it even when you're not under windows anymore?

thanks again

 

You will see better performance by gaming through Bootcamp rather than VM.

 

Bootcamp IS the best way (performance wise) to play games on your Mac. I'm playing Crysis, Oblivion, HL2 suite (Original, Ep1, Ep2, Portal - no CS sorry), but the games run pretty awesome!

As far as the mouse goes, I'm still using the wired Mighty Mouse. It does have a right click, so it's pretty okay to game with it. But of course you can get any Logitech or other gaming mouse and it will run both with OS X and Windows.

 

I personally use my trusted Logitech MX518 for gaming.

 

Switched from Windows to Mac two weeks ago. I'm not a gamer but just set Fusion up on an external usb drive -- an older one I had handy. And it boots the machine. I think all intel Macs will boot from usb external hard drives. But firewire is faster.

I should have made the switch years ago. Even the inside of this machine is way cool!

 

You can run a VM Image off a USB or even a networked drive, but you cannot natively boot into Windows that way. If you want to Boot Camp into a Windows partition on an external HD, you will have to use a Firewire drive.

 

If you've bootcamped then you can use any Windows mouse. I use VM and CS:S is fine playing at max settings although that is the only game I play and even that I only play occasionally when I'm very tired as a form of relaxation.

I like my MacAlly mouse - you can right click with it so it's fine although I do prefer my G5 when I can use it.

 

guys, thanks you soooo much!!! this definetely sealed my choice!!!
and i guess i'll test both VM and bootcamp and tell you guys my opinion...!!!

Now i just have to wait till xmas :-s

thanks to all of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

oh and is vista ok performence wise to run via bootcamp/VM??? or XP is better?

 

Running Vista or XP under Bootcamp is the same as running Vista or XP on your PC. Sure, XP will be better performance wise, but the MBP and MB is more than capable of running Vista too. If you just use Bootcamp to play games, than XP would get you better FPS. Using Parallels or VMware with your Mac means running both OS's at the same time, so it would consume more CPU power and RAM compared to running one OS at a time with Bootcamp. If you decide that you only use Windows to play games, I would go with the free Bootcamp.

 

As a Mac owner, I have to recommend against getting any Mac if gaming is that important to you.

If you're willing to drop the cash on a MacBook Pro, you can generally find a much more powerful, and upgradeable, notebook for the same price.

For example, for $100 less than the entry MacBook Pro, you can get a 17" Toshiba with an HD-DVD drive, DUAL GeForce 8600M GT 512MB (256MBx2, running in SLI mode), Santa Rosa Core 2 Duo, etc. If you're looking at the $2500 MacBook Pro, you can even look into Alienware or other high end gaming machines that have dual GeForce Go 7950GTXs with 1GB or so of memory, running in SLI mode. A system running a dual GeForce Go 7950GTX in SLI with 1GB of memory is going to get you as much as 4x more performance than the MBP with the GeForce 8600M GT 256.

A Dell Inspiron 1520 for around $1350 (2GB of RAM purchased yourself for $60 from newegg) will come with a 2.2GHz Santa Rosa based Core 2 Duo, GeForce 8600M GT 256MB (yes its GDDR2, compared to the MBPs GDDR3.. real world performance is only about 10% less, max) 250GB HDD, DVD writer, 9 cell battery (same battery life as the MBP in real world situations), and a 1680x1050 screen. The Dell will also come with an HDCP certified HDMI output so you can get the optional blu-ray drive, or an external combo HD-DVD/blu-ray drive, and play HD movies on an HDTV. That system will be about 90% of the $2500 MacBook Pro for more than $1100 less.

Sure some people will say the MBP has better "Features". Such as? A backlit keyboard. Honestly, I think thats useless and I'd turn it off. Sure the MBP looks "better" and its "thinner" (by about half an inch in the rear).. but that pretty and thin aluminum case will be your greatest enemy.

Why?

Macs get H O T. For some reason, nobody talks about this. I don't know why. MacBooks and especially the MBPs get extremely hot. Just browsing the web or watching a DVD will get the system so warm that you cannot comfortably use it on your lap. It will get hot enough so that you can't sit through a full DVD, nor will you be able ot use it for more than half an hour or so browsing the web. If I use my MacBook on the desk for a couple of hours at night to browse, chat, and listen to music... I can put my hand under the desk where the Mac was sitting and the DESK will be extremely warm. Now imagine if you're playing games.. that aluminum case is going to get extremely hot to the touch.

PCs don't have this problem because of their "wedge" design, and the fact that nearly all of them have an in-take fan on the bottom that sucks air up and pushes it away from your lap and legs.

My HP (C2D SR 2GHz, GeForce 8400M) can play games for hours and barely be warm to the touch. Infact, I could play HL2 for a couple of hours, unplug it, take it in the other room, and use it as a "laptop". With the Mac, I'd have to let it cool down after doing something as simple as browsing or syncing my iPod/iPhone before it'd be cool and comfortable enough to use on my lap.

I was tired of Windows too when I bought my Mac. That was half of the reason I bought it. But you know what? After months of using OS X, it really isn't that much better than Windows. It has its positives, such as software installations being much simpler. But it has its downsides too, such as the extreme lack of software and freeware. There are no OS X equivalents for Nero or WinDVD (DVD Player in OS X is an absolute joke). There are no free firewalls that control outbound traffic. Aside from a couple of apps, you'll need to pay for just about every piece of software you'll need. And some applications that claim to be "freeware" force you to "donate" as much as $50 to get access to it.

You might be tired of Windows, but you'll grow tired of OS X and either having to buy so much, use junk freeware... or, finding yourself going back to Windows so often to use useful, free, and high quality software.

If you're going to be using Windows on your Mac for gaming, you'll find yourself sitting in Windows and using it a lot more often than OS X once the "honeymoon" and the whole "wow this is neat" phase wears off. Then, like me, you'll realize you should have just bought a better PC for less money.

I have a Mac, but because of all of those reasons and quite a few others (like Apple ripping those of us who bought iPod games off by trying to force us to buy them again for new iPods) I will not buy another Mac (or iPod) again. I'm only keeping my iPhone because there is no good alternative.. I am, however, considering unlocking it so Apple doesn't make $18 a month off of me.

 

this is the problem that i was facing. However i will soon be paying slightly more for a mbp do in large part that it seems to be a much more reliable machine, and a good investment in the long term. I could go and save a few hundred by getting a dell 1520 , but i am concerned that a dell (or any other pc) would not last me as longas a mbp. it just seems like the mbp is going to live up to my needs more so.

 

The MBP is due for a refresh early 08, if you can wait.

 

I've aksed before about if the MBP gets hot and so many people say no. I have read many places otherwise. I was reading on macrumors.com about that problem people are having with the new narrower aluminum iMac...and it sounds like it is a heat problem that is affecting their graphics card or graphics memory. Why does Apple have to make things smaller and narrower all the time if it affects the hardware negatively. Would anyone really care if the MBP was 1 1/4 inch? I am considering a MBP, but the heat issue bothers me. And I often wonder if OS X would fulfill all my needs...even though I do read good things about it, as well as negative things. I personally don't see the point of getting a Mac if immediately have the need to buy Windows and install that too to be satisfied. Why is Mac so great then?

 

desertmike, doesn't sound like you should get a Mac then. All in all, most people get a Mac for OS X. If you don't see that you need Mac OS X, then just stick with a Windows PC .

As for the heat issue, its not that big of a deal, really. I mean, the heat is not in any way going to damage the components, just don't expect to use it on your lap while wearing shorts. With that said, most notebooks these days are like this as well, and are best used on a table.

 

Depends...I mean, its pretty likely a business machine such as a Thinkpad or HP and Dell business series will be just as or even more reliable than a MBP. But if you ask me, yes, the MBP is more reliable and built better than an Inspiron 1520.

 

After my experience with my Mac and reading so many other users experiences with them, I can't say that a Mac is reliable at all. Just go over to Macrumors and see how many people have all kinds of various issues with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. There was a digg story not too long ago about whether AppleCare was worth it or not. About 9 out of 10 people who responded saying they had purchased AppleCare had used it because of some hardware failure.

My DVD drive in my MacBook failed after just a couple of months. I sent it in for repair.. it came back all scratched up and the mouse button no longer worked. Sent it back out. They replaced the casing. Scratched it anew. Sent it back. Mouse button still didn't work. Did I mention the DVD drive wasn't replaced? They re-aligned the laser, which actually made it unable to read any discs at all. Apple ended up replacing the system.

And if you read around at MacRumors and other Apple related forums, you'll literally read hundreds of posts about how the MBP has screen issues, build quality issues, etc.

Plus I'd be greatly concerned about the MacBook Pro's overall lifespan. As HOT as the system gets, I can't imagine it would last very long. Thats one of the reasons I'm considering selling my MacBook while its still under warranty. Macs get so ridiculously hot that I wonder just how long they will last.

Also, with the MacBook Pro, there are no easy ways for the user to replace the two components that are the most likely to fail. The HDD and optical drive are not intended to be replaced or upgraded by the user. You'll have to pull the entire system apart to replace either one.

And if you're wondering about warranty service... Dell has Apple beat there. AppleCare gives you 3 years of coverage. But AppleCare's phone support is only open from 6am to 6pm Pacific, Monday through Friday. Even if you have an Apple Store nearby, your system still will get sent in for repairs. You had better hope your system doesn't get sent to FlexTronics either. They'll basically destroy it and you'll have to send it out multiple times (usually going without it for 6-8 weeks total) before Apple will finally replace it. That happened to me and too many other people to count over at macrumors.

Dell offers up to 4 years of on-site and accidental coverage. 24/7 phone support.

Plus the Dell is built in the US Not in a Chinese slave factory.

Honestly, anybody who says their Mac doesn't get hot is a big fat liar. I havea friend who is a very typical Apple fanboy. But he recently stopped using his MacBook Pro as his primary computer. Why? Because he was worried about the heat (and it was burning him up when he used it on his lap).

Like I said before, my MacBook gets uncomfortably warm just by browsing the web. It gets hot enough to where I can't have it sitting on my lap for a full DVD movie. Where my HP, on the other hand, will only be slightly warm to the touch after playing games for a few hours.

Any Mac user who says their MacBook or MBP doesn't get "that hot" or hot at all hasn't used a Windows notebook. If you're used to a Windows notebook, you will definitely be bothered by the heat generated by the Macs. They can and do get uncomfortably warm, and downright hot to the touch under the right conditions. Anybody who says otherwise is either lying or hasn't experienced a non-Apple notebook.

As for your final question... a few months ago I would have been able to answer that. But after owning a Mac for several months now, and seeing Apple's recent business practices....... I can't recommend Macs at all. Infact, I've even stopped recommending iPods and turned a few people away from the iPhone just by telling them that Apple forces you to buy ringtones rather than (officially) letting you use your own. I know people who are happier with their Zunes than I am with my iPods. Then again, they didn't buy anything from the Zune Marketplace and then have Microsoft tell them they had to repurchase it to keep using it like Apple did with the iPod games.

My HP (C2D 2GHz, GeForce 8400M) can play games for hours and barely be warm to the touch. Even if I am using it to full capacity, the fan on the bottom takes the heat up and pushes out the back. Where the Macs generally tend to heat up the entire bottom of the case because theres no in-take and exhaust, only exhaust. Air gets blown out, but theres nothing moving the heat away.

My old Athlon XP based desktop put off less heat than a MacBook or MacBook Pro does, to be honest with you.

That is not true at all. Just go to macrumors or the Apple support forums. The MBP's ship with all kinds of problems. Everything from yellowing screens to bent cases. Built better? Not at all. It's all aluminum that can and does scratch and dent. Not to mention the heat issue. The Dell has a nice fan on the bottom that pulls heat up and away from the user. Where the MBP will generally heat up that entire aluminum bottom.

You also can't upgrade or replace 2 critical components on the MacBook Pro, the optical drive and the HDD.

The MBP isn't anywhere near the "business" notebooks from other manufacturers either. They all generally come with 4GB of RAM standard (for the same price as the MBPs), as well as 3-4 years of on-site service included in the standard warranty and price. They also generally have workstation class GPUs with double the memory of the MBPs.

 

I just don't like this claim. As I've said before, forums are for getting help and giving help. You will always see threads titled, "I NEED HELP", because people with issues will obviously talk about it, either to vent or to get the issue solved! How often do you see "I DON'T NEED HELP" threads? That's because those that don't have issues aren't going to be vocal about it; most don't even come to forums. The ones with issues will want to get help for it, and they will come to forums to ask.

So I do not think that you should use the forums as a way of saying Apple has bad hardware. It will be the same story in any manufacturer's forum, really.

And you also have to look at it from another angle. Apple sold 2 million Macs this quarter. If 1% of them had issues, that's 20'000 Macs with issues! Say only 10% of those owners went on a forum to complain. Still, there's 2000 complaints that is enough to flood a forum. So the percentage of defects may be the same, but because of the volume of it, it will seem that a product has more issues that affects a larger percentage than it actually does.

And once again, this isn't limited to Apple. This is for everything.

 

Really? I didn't know that...as far as I knew basically the entire industry builds its electronics in China, except for some exceptions such as Fujitsu. Are you sure Dells are built in the US? Because that seems pretty unlikely to me...the labour costs would be pretty high.

And they're not exactly slave factories . The Chinese are paid less than Westerners do here, but its pretty decent living over there.

 

Wow thank you SauronMOS.... it is true that I've only read +ve stuff so far and it is good (if you get what I mean) to hear some -ve as well!!

Well, I guess I'll just have to buy the best I can afford then..

Thanks all of you guys anyways!

 

Hit the nail on the head. Complainers have louder voices than praisers.

My Dell was assembled in Malaysia. Though I don't quite see what the difference would have been if it had been built in the US. Maybe a little more postage cost, I dunno.

As for the OP, it really sounds like you want a "PC." The reasons you are giving are not the reasons people normally switch to OS X. A high end PC from Asus, Dell, etc will most likely have better warranty conditions than Apple, and the fact you could get more power means you wouldn't want to replace your computer as quickly. Games are out now that will bring the 17" MBP to it's knees, and I don't see games getting anymore streamlined in the future.

Now, I'm getting a new MacBook (4GB 800MHz + 250GB HDD aftermarket baby!) because I already have a Playstation 3 for gaming (GH3 > Crysis). I just need something simple and light, and fully featured (webcam, mic, DVD burner, etc) to do my blogging, facebook and web development on.

The MBP fits the bill for the "casual mobile professional" who may want to occasionally do some rendering or CAD work whilst on the road, and doesn't want something huge and heavy, and is willing to sacrifice some power for that. It fits the casual gamer too, but a lot of other PC's do as well. If you're a serious gamer, I would have to advise you to steer clear of the MBP.

Atleast, that's the way I see it, you may think differently.

Just remember, never make a laptop choice you'll regret after the first month. 3 months is okay, because at that stage, any laptop is old and outdated.

 

Some may be assembled in the US, but where do you think the parts themselves come from?

 

I would suggest a Thinkpad T61p. It comes with a Quadro FX570 with 256mb ddr3 which is the equivalent to a 8600gt. You can install geforce drivers from laptopvideo2go.
I've had one for almost a month now and it's not only good, but also beautiful and it was like 1200 bucks!!!!! roughly half the price! That because I got a sweet discount. They come and go, so if you surf around the lenovo part of the forum you'll find out when they're running.

 

Sam, you misinterpreted my statement. I want to get a MBP...I love the style. I hear good things about OS X. But from what I read on hear it seems many immediately also install Windows, for whatever reason. I would like nothing more to have OS X be the only operating system I used. But from what I read in these forums I wonder if that is possible. Are there any Mac users that just have the Mac OS on their notebook?

 

You can also go the Parallels way.
Here at work I don't have bootcamp, just parallels for autocad, winrar (couldn't find any half decent program for mac to open .rar files) and printers not supported in os x. It works quite well. Of course you don't game in it, but it works well for general tasks.

 

That's what I do. I don't have Windows on my MacBook...I don't have a need for Windows other than gaming and Photoshop (can't afford Photoshop on Mac ), and I game on my desktop computer in Windows.

So yeah, unless you have software that is Windows-only (some business apps, gaming, etc.), then there's no need for Windows.

 

This rather broad claim just doesn't apply to me. In OS X my MBP gets warm underneath, but not hot (one person's "hot" is different than another's anyway). I used to run Windows via Bootcamp, and then, yes, the notebook got flat-out hot. I've since deleted that partition -- no need for it anymore. But it is a consideration. Otherwise, my OS X runs nice and easy no matter what the task. And I also have a Thinkpad -- it actually runs at about the same temps as the MBP, so there you have it.

And FYI: As for changing HDDs, I've swapped mine twice (upgrades) and I don't consider it rocket science -- again that's just me. This obviously means I'm content to fly it alone with the one-year warranty gone. I'll baby the machine and take my chances.

Finally, I agree that looking at forums to determine quality control is ridiculous. It's like asking Tech Support, Are your machines well-built? His honest answer would have to be, Don't ask me, as I do nothing but field problems all day. Get a MBP if you want solid hardware and, mostly, to run OS X.

 

Well, it's not so much about the number (as you go into later in your post), but about the content. If you browse most PC support forums, even here, you'll find that the content of the majority of the posts revolves around software issues or something the user did themselves. However, if you go to Apple related forums, you'll find that the majority of problem posts all revolve around hardware issues of some kind.

You go to macrumors and you'll find countless posts complaining about screen yellowing issues, bent MBPs, Apple denying warranties because of normal wear and tear marks on the MBP (scratches, dents). Yet you go to most PC forums and you'll find that the number of hardware related issues is much lower and that the worst problems people have usually just require them to reinstall Windows.

How many HPs, Dells, Sonys, Gateways, etc. do you hear about shipping from the factory (or being returned from service) scratched, dented, bent? How many HPs, Dells, etc. turn yellow with regular use? Yes that problem still exists and that was one of the reasons my MacBook went in for service. Or have the plastic chip off around the edge of the lid for no real reason? Or the new iMacs that have condensation problems under the screen. I don't know about you, but if I spend as much as $2200 on a desktop PC (that uses mobile components!) I better not see water under the screen!

The fact of the matter is that Apple has some real build quality issues. Not just with the Macs, but with the iPods too. Both the iPod touch and iPod nano (3G) have screen issues. I'm on my 3rd iPod nano (just arrived a few minutes ago) because of tilted screen problems. The iPod Classic has firmware issues that keep the HDD spinning and drain the battery as well as kill the overall life of the drive itself. Why hasn't Apple fixed that yet? You can go back pretty far to see issues too. Apple seemed to use 40GB drives in older iPods that were notorious for failures.

Theres a plant out in NC where the systems are built.

You can certainly get a PC from another manufacturer that meets all of those requirements for less money. It certainly won't bake your skin or risk discoloration with regular use either.

Even if someone doesn't want to use their PC to game, they're better off with a cheaper Windows PC + Xbox360. They'll save money and most likely get better customer service than if they were to go with a Mac. Even with the standard 1 year warranty, they at least get to call in for support an unlimited number of times 24/7, not just M-F for the first 90 days. They don't have to give up a CC number on hardware issues for diagnosis.. And like I said, if its Saturday morning and the system fails, they don't have to wait until Monday morning to call support like they would with a Mac. Not everyone lives by an Apple Store you know. They'll get better games out of the Xbox360 as well. All of the flagship titles for the PS3 so far, with the exception of Resistance and Ratchet (Insomniac is basically all Sony has left), have failed. Lair was a buggy piece of junk that played terrible when it did actually play, and Heavenly Sword is just another lame hack 'n slash. That leaves..... 3rd party games that are all Xbox360 ports that don't run as good as they did on the original console. The biggest game of the generation, GTA4, will be better on the Xbox360. I'll gladly take the Halo series, Forza, PC ports, Gears of War, etc. over Lair, Heavenly Sword, etc. The games Sony once relied on are now the laughing stock of the gaming world. Gran Turismo 5 still doesn't have car damage, and its going to be released in a manner that can only be described as micro-transaction hell. Final Fantasy has gone from "the" series to.... well, theres no polite way to describe it. Final Fantasy 12 was somehow worse than 10, and that in itself is amazing. You have to wonder what Square was thinking to actually spend years developing a game that came out worse than one of the worst games of all time.

Sad thing is, I used to be a Sony fanboy. But now I can only laugh at what they're doing and how they're trying to pawn off gimped systems for $399.

Anyway, back on topic.

Honestly, I've tried that probably 5 times the entire time I've had a Mac and I have never been successful just having OS X as my only operating system.
The only way I can see someone being content with JUST OS X on their Mac is if they have been Mac users their entire lives. If you're coming from Windows, then you'll have to be willing to make a lot of sacrifices to be happy with just OS X. Everything from IM programs to burning software lacks features compared to what you find on Windows, with the exception of Photoshop. But if you don't use Photoshop, then Windows offers much better (cheaper or free) alternatives.

Burning software? Toast doesn't hold a candle to Nero. Completely different leagues. Nero is 10x better and the video compression on Nero is leaps and bounds above what Toast does, while being significantly faster. DVD playback? DVD Player in OS X, while much better in Leopard than in Tiger, is still a joke. You still can't get it to decode LFE (no good sounding bass), the "advanced deinterlacing" that Apple bragged about as being one of Leopard's new features wreaks havoc on TV-based content, and it still lacks features that Windows DVD players have had for years now.. Again, LFE decoding.. but more important features as well, like disc caching to save the life of your optical drive and improve your battery life.

You can be happy with OS X as long as you just stick to the iLife applications (and, seriously, how many people here actually use iLife apps other than iPhoto on a regular basis?), you're willing to take a step backwards in DVD playback quality, and everybody you'll chat with already has a Mac with iChat or uses AIM. Oh, and for the record, Adium sucks.

You really have to think about this.... Apple's sales with the Macs only took off AFTER they were able to run Windows and Apple started advertising that fact. Many people here and at other forums, including Apple's own, admit that they would have never purchased or considered a Mac without true Windows compatibility.

Mac OS X itself is great. However, 3rd party software is what breaks OS X. If you stick to just the iLife apps, or do basic things like just chatting (without webcams) and browsing, then OS X will be great and stable. But if you're just chatting, browsing, email, etc... then a cheaper PC will be better for you.

Or you generally just want to use good software like Nero or you want decent qualtiy DVD playback....

Well, I was watching a movie lastnight and I used both my Mac and HP. I used both for an hour. All I did was browse and chat during the movie. Movie was not played on either system. After the first hour, the HP was just as cool as it had been when I first booted it up. I then switched to the Mac. After 30 minutes the system was uncomfortably warm. When the hour was up, I had already had the system off for 10 minutes and resting on the table because it was so warm.

I live in the desert too, so heat usually isn't an issue with me. When I'm saying that the MacBook gets too warm to use comfortably, then you know its getting hot.

But that doesn't change the fact that the HDD in the MBP is NOT meant to be accessed by the user. You do have to tear the entire system apart to access it. With a Windows PC, all you have to do is flip the system over, remove a couple of screws to pop off the specific HDD cover, pull the little tab to lift the drive out, remove the 4 standard screws on the case (Apple uses a screw that can only be removed by a tool found in more expensive tool kits), swap the case, put the drive back in, replace the screws and you're done.

Replacing the optical drive is also a great hassle. On most Windows notebooks, you just turn the system over and remove a single screw. Slide the drive out. Slide the new one in, replace the screw and you're done.

Again, the content of the posts is what I was referring to. You go to Windows based PC support forums and you can see just how many of those posts are software or user related. Yet you go to Apple support forums (their own and others) and you'll find that the vast majority of the posts are hardware issues. Again, how many posts on forums do you see complaining about HPs and Dells shipping with bent, scratched, or dented casing like the MBP? How many posts do you find about PC discoloration?

 

No I can't. At $1350AU, the MacBook is the cheapest new 13" on the market.

Don't even go there. I'm happy with my PS3, and have no need for a 360.

 

Read this:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=145917

We should all thank the almighty Sam for this brilliant guide.

 

Thank you, Sam. That was very helpful to me.

 

No problem, desertmike. Any questions, just ask!

 

Whoa guy, the heat in the desert must be frying your brain. Let me clarify some things to relieve your ignorance.
I was a Windows user for 3 years and had 3 PC's consecutively and I absolutely hated Macs (because I had never used one before during my PC years) but I got sick of Windows and and went to the Mac OS since version 8.5 and never looked back at that Windows crap. See I can't deal with the Registry and all of what you say a PC can do is BS if I have to deal with the Registry slowing my system and forcing me to do clean ups. Too much maintenance and headache and nothing's changed with Windows.

I don't use Windows and I have no need to. Toast is awesome for my needs and does more than what I need. Who cares if Nero offers more if I don't need the features.
There are plenty of great 3rd party apps for the Macintosh, you just never checked them out. Gimp is also free on the Mac for a Photoshop alternative. Neo Office is also free on the Mac. Maybe you should take a trip to San Francisco and go to MacWorld in January, you will see hundreds of 3rd party companies there that make fantastic software on the Mac.
Not everything about the Mac is about iLife but you certainly can't get anything on the PC side nearly as great for the price. I am power user and I use all of iLife since I create a lot of DVD's and movies and I run an entire office on Mac OS X and no Windows OS's around.

 

Not true. Apple's Mac sales have been steadily increasing for many years now, long before Boot Camp Beta was announced. While I agree that there are going to be people who bought a Mac recently for the purpose of using Windows, statistics have shown that Mac OS X market share is increasing along with Mac hardware sales, so I don't think you can use that argument effectively.

As I said above...I agree that being able to run Windows along with OS X on one machine has been a factor in driving Mac sales, but to blatantly say that Mac sales took off only because of Boot Camp is not true.

 

It wasn't Windows that did it, it was reasonably priced MacBooks and iMacs that started the climb. Plus the Intel speed boost helped a bit.

 

Well, according to Wikipedia, you're both right, kinda:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell#Manufacturing

 

Not exactly. But sometimes they can come uncomfortably close to being slave factories. This story about the iPod factories set off a flap last year:

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages...ews.html?in_article_id=401234&in_page_id=1770

Subsequently Apple did a little investigation and -- surprise -- didn't find conditions to be so bad.

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/ipodreport/

In any case, Apple's no different than your average electronics company using contract manufacturing.

 

You realize that the MacBook, even though the screen is 13.3", is only smaller than most 15.4" notebooks by only a cm or two in each direction, right? You can go to the Apple website and compare specs for yourself. MacBook, while only having that 13.3" screen, is not exactly a small or "ultra portable" notebook. It weighs almost as much as what most 15.4" notebooks do and its only a cm or so smaller in each direction than my HP dv65000t. Not enough to make a real world difference. Especially when you see the bigger screen on the HP that is just as bright and vibrant. While you're at the Apple site, you can see that the MacBook starts at $1,599AU new. No DVD writer, integrated graphics.

Here in the US at Dell, for $1,359 you can get the XPS M1330 with the DVD writer standard, 120GB HDD, 2GHz C2D (Santa Rosa), 128MB GeForce 8400M GS. Add another $50 for 2GB of RAM and you're good to go. That brings it to only a few dollars more than what my white MacBook WITH DVD writer cost. Thats just bad pricing and a bad deal for the Mac.

So you're content with an over priced and under powered system that developers have gone on record saying that they hate the architecture, and the only two games worth playing on the system are made by an independent developer that could up and leave Sony at any time? Gears of War is definitely better than Resistance. Halo 3 is pretty much better than anything else on the PS3 at the moment.

You were a Windows user for a FULL 3 years? You switched during OS 8.5?

So that means you used what? Windows 3.1 and Windows 95? Mac OS 8.5 used cooperative multitasking. You can't even call Windows 95/98/ME "crap" when Mac OS 7, 8, and 9 didn't even offer true multitasking.

I've been using Windows since the 3.0 days. I've had 3.0, 3.11, 95, 95B, 98, 98SE, ME, XP, and Vista. Do you know how many times I've had the Registry cause problems? 0. Do you know how many viruses I've had (and I have had anti-virus software installed)? 0. Do you know how many times I've had spyware installed on my system? 0.

Maintenance? Do you know how much I have to do? I run Disk Cleanup and Disk Defragmenter every so often. About as often as I run Onyx in OS X.

Issues that caused me to reinstall Windows? 1. Issues that caused me to reinstall OS X? 1. The Safari 3 beta hosed WebKit and all the applications that relied on it.

Windows XP/Vista are no more of a "headache" to use than Tiger/Leopard. OS X has the advantage of easier to install software, but Windows has the advantage of choice.

Toast is a classic example of the Mac version not offering as much as the Windows version, but charging the same or more.

Gimp is a joke on OS X and Windows. Even more so on OS X. The UI isn't integrated into OS X at all, and it requires X11 to be installed to be used. Your only other alternative is...... what? Seashore?

Which is a port of another piece of software, and really doesn't run all that good as the software it is porting to OS X.

It doesn't matter how many 3rd party customers are making software when most people still can't get what they want. Why is it that I can't even have DVD playback in OS X and hear the LFE channel decoded into my headphones or stereo PC speakers like I can in Windows? Why is it that every little useful utility for the Mac costs something when the Windows equivalent is free? Why don't I have the choice of firewalls that block outbound connections? The only way to monitor outbound traffic in OS X is to BUY software. In Windows I can choose from a number of software that fits what I need and want.

Oh really? iPhoto has many alternatives on the PC. Vista's built-in ripoff of iPhoto works just as good for organization. You don't get the useless "events" feature, but for organizing and viewing it works just as good. As does Picassa 2.

iDVD? Sure, the themes are nice. But I always find animated menus to be distracting and waste space on the DVD that could be dedicated to the video bitrate. Better looking video is more important than some music and some looping animations. Nero also has a better (and faster) MPEG-2 encoder, and can encode Dolby Digital 5.1 sound.

iMovie? Its okay, but theres freeware video editing for Windows that does all of the basic tasks.

But we don't know a few things about that. For one, Apple counts OS X marketshare with every Mac sold. Just the same as Microsoft tries to say as many people are using Windows as there are Windows PCs shipping out of manufacturing plants. We all know that many, if not millions, of people buy systems pre-loaded with Windows and wipe it off and install Linux. And, look at myself as an example for the Mac. I used OS X more than Windows for many months on my Mac. Or at least, I thought I did. I found myself in Windows many times because I wanted to use Nero (like I said, Toast sucks), or I wanted to watch a DVD and DVD Player is pathetic.... or a Yahoo or MSN using friend wanted to use a webcam.

So how many of those "switchers" are using OS X exclusively? I know I've read more than a few reports of people just wanting Apple hardware and wiping OS X off and using Windows exclusively. You can even find people who are running Linux on their Mac instead of OS X.

How is it not true? How many people here, at macrumors, appleinsider, even Apple's own support forums have come out and specifically said "I would not have bought a Mac if not for Windows compatibility"? Look how well VMWare Fusion and Parallels sell. The ability to run Windows has directly affected and is directly responsible for the current sales of Mac hardware.

Theres nothing reasonably priced about the MacBook or iMac. iMac is a desktop PC that has very little room for upgrades and uses all mobile (except for the HDD) components. The MacBook is significantly underpowered compared to PCs in the same price bracket. You can get a 15.4" Dell Inspiron with the power of the $2500 MacBook Pro for the same price as the 13.3" MacBook w/SuperDrive. Thats sad to think... for what my MacBook w/SuperDrive cost after taxes, I could have had a Dell thats just as powerful as the $2500 MBP. But instead, I chose a system with a less powerful CPU, integrated graphics, bad software, and it gets uncomfortably hot so I can't even take advantage of its good battery life.

The only reason I haven't sold my Mac yet is because I would feel guilty about selling something the MacBook at a high price to someone else, but I refuse to take a large loss on my purchase. So I have to deal with my own guilt. Rip someone else off like Apple ripped me off? Or keep it and be out money and be unhappy?

By the way, my 3rd 3G 8GB iPod nano STILL has a measurably tilted screen and it even came with a scratch on the back. The only good thing about it is that it was new and not refurbished. Every device I've ever owned up that had a screen of some sort, until the nano, has had a perfectly aligned screen. Why is it so hard for Apple to release a unit with a perfectly aligned screen? Apple "quality" indeed I find it funny that they want me to repurchase every iPod game that I have already purchased to play on this new iPod, yet they can't even give me a properly functioning unit and no guarantee that the new games will work on future iPods. I also wonder how long it'll be before Apple blocks user made ringtones again for the iPhone.

Yes I'm very dissatisfied with Apple and I'm very close to selling all of my Apple products. My MacBook, four iPods, and the iPhone.

 

Actually, having used the MacBook, dv2000t, and Inspiron 1520, I can notice the difference in weight, which as a uni student who commutes for four hours a day, I can notice the real world difference. Not so much with the 14" HP, but they have unusable (for CSS) touchpads. Not to mention the HP starts at $1800 for a decent config.

$1450 for students, $1350 from my importer.

Congrats, unfortunately I don't live in the land of volume of sale.

GTFO, Troll.

 

No, that's not what I'm looking at. I'm looking at third party statistics and data that has shown that OS X usage share (not amount of copies sold, as you are stating) is increasing, and as Apple has reported, Mac sales have exploded as well.

And I use OS X exclusively.

And once again, how many people are just using OS X exclusively on their Mac, and not reporting it on the forums? As I said before, forums are not an accurate way of saying a statistic is true. Forums are used by only a minority of users, and unless you can get every Mac user to sound off on a forum, the statistic is not correct.