Now that Boot Camp has been released....

... do you think that Apple will release standalone Mac OS for Windows-running PC's?

 

Never - Mac makes, sells and supports its own platform. I think they only introduced Boot Camp to lure in Windows users to buy their new hardware.

 

Yep theres no way they will sell sell their OS for other machines, or their notebooks with XP on them. The whole purpose here (and its working well from what ive seen) is to get Windows users to buy their nifty hardware... and if some of them become mac converts along the way since their exposed to it, so much the better for apple.

Im a Windows person, do software development and thats where the money is, because the majority of users are there... Havent looked at a Mac since the Mac Classic (I thought it was cool in a retro way) but suddenly the Mac Book Pro is a contender.

Its still not a slam dunk... due to its low x1600 graphics performance but its now a valid option and has alot of folks looking. Apples going to gain market share over this.

 

If they did that would be interesting but I doubt it. ON this topic see Voodoo PC's Rahul sood's blog

I like the style somewhat (not a huge fan of the apple really, I like AW's alien better and voodoo's and falcon's) anyway also not to excited about the performance of the hardware either. I think I'd still rather get a PC and I could probably get one cheaper to (non boutique of course)

 

That would finish Apple off! They will never release their os to the PC platform.

 

I think it's not only probable, but likely. It's only a matter of time. Most of the Mac software has already been ported to Winodws, so except for some very selective (and Apple) devloped apps, there's no reason to run a Mac.

I think the release of boot camp was a shot over bow of the diehard OSX users. If they gain "hardware" market share, then the switch is ON. After all, how long can you sell hardware if you've only got 3-4% market share. This would allow them to focus on the hardware and reduce the diversion of maintaining and OS.

Read Dvorak's article in PCMAG online. He predicted the release of boot camp and the adoption of Windows by Apple weeks before it happened. And I agree.

 

Boot Camp is a very clever move to try to draw us XP users to get hooked on apples OS , and very shortly purchase a apple notebook , as for apple ever creating a OS for the Win PC it will never happen due to it will then cause the apple pc sales to nosedive and apple wil then have to put all its ability into forever updating its OS and dealing w/ never ending security issues , there will never be a worldwide market for the apple OS since as long as Microsoft keeps providing a updated OS that will run every PC worldwide. Apple simply does not have the skill , expertise and foresite in doing so.

Bill G

 

I wouldn't put anything past Apple... They can choose either path -- depending on where the money is.

Yes if they go the software route they will have to beef up their software support department -- but they no longer have to worry about hardware support -- which I'm sure is no small feat. Of course going software they have to be prepared to stand smack in way of the Micro$oft fist -- something that not many companies has done, and lived.

But don't discount on Apple developing something in secret, as is their way -- to compete against Windows on the PC platform. Remember the shock when Mr. Jobs announced that OSX has been ported to Intel platform -- since FIVE years ago? Who'd have thought with his reality-distortion field about the power of G5 vs. the Wintel crowd, that 5 years ago Apple was not only eyeing the Intel platform, but knee-deep in actively developing OS that would run on it?

I bet they are doing something similiar right now, just waiting for the right moment -- eventually, the port from OSX to other Intel machines will be smoother and more professionally done, and as the interest in OSX grows, Apple will drop the bomb: We have been in development of an XP competitor since when we first launched our Intel based Macs! And here it is!

Of course we don't know that, and if they don't deem that it's the right time, Apple is perfectly willing to just hold on to the project, making upgrades to it, until when the market is ready for it. The cost of that is minimal, the potential reward -- way more than any hardware-based solution can muster. Don't think that Apple isn't envious of MSFT's profit margins, in fact, everyone is. The trick is that Apple *has* a pretty much universally aclaimed OS, and they HAVE moved their platform to the same as MSFTs, and surprisingly, they has been doing this in secret since FIVE years ago! You think they did all that just so they can release the next Macbook/iBook/iMac?

Heck no.

wait and see.

cheers,

yass

 

Lets look at apples past history ,Mr jobs is developing something in secret for the next event to compete against Windows on the PC platform and is waiting for the right moment to drop the bomb (apple OS) and and if they don't deem that it's the right time, apple is perfectly willing to just hold on to the project, making upgrades to it, until when the market is ready for it.Historically connecting the dots apple has had numerous "right moments to drop the bomb" but for some incredible unseen reason due to his secret development projects, it will never happen , there will allways be another delay ,meanwhile Microsoft will perfect the Win OS forever getting closer to what the apple OS is.Until then all apple pc users will be under the dellusion that Mr jobs will be the allmighty savior bringing the word of das mac OS, only to discover the harsh reality that it is to little and way to late.

Bill G.

 

Every companies has had flops, failures, and bad timings.

MSFT had MS Bob (lol?), IBM has had so many that the mind boggles, Xerox had... well, lets not even talk about how Xerox missed the boat... heh

Apple had Newton, the Mac Cube, ironically, Windows, and others, but they also did plenty of things right. The fact is, Apple isn't shy about trying something new -- due to their smallness in size and Steve Job's obsession/reality-distortion field.

The very fact that he had a full team working on OSX86 in secret while he openly preached about the power of the PowerPC architecture sorta indicates the depth of the company -- sell what you have right now, but plan for the future!

Apple knows that once they move into the Intel realm, really what separates them from any other OEM/ODM, are 2 things -- their style, and their OS. Of these 2, while the style arguably is more valuable to the company, it's the OS that is the "core" of Apple. And style is a fickle thing: Some love it, some hate it, some are completely indifferent to it(like myself). For Apple to expand past their 5% market share, they need something more reliable: convince other ppl that their OS is superior -- put all that marketing muscle into their CORE differentiator.

cheers,

yass

 

It is unlikley to happen.

Apple have a road map where they want to take the Mac (and it started with the Intel switch) and it's unlikley it involves releasing their operating system.

Of course never say never and if they feel they may entice even more users to make the switch by releasing a 'lighter' version of OS X for PC users - who knows?

Whatever their plan, it's likley to involve making more people switch.

 

Apple will never release their OS onto PCs - that can be assured. Their OS is the main thing that separates them from other PC makers, without it, they're just another face in the crowd. What I'm thinking they may do is something like Virtual Mac for PC to let users try out the Mac OS on their PCs and see if they like it or not.

 

If their OS is the main thing that separates them from other PC makers -- then they really aren't a "PC maker", now aren't they?

Their PCs are nothing more than commodity-machines, wrapped in a fancy shell. It's the OS that separates them. Why not market that as such -- their TRUE selling point? You are right, without osx they ARE just another face in the crowd, so OSX is what's truly valuable, not Apple hardware.

Margins in hardware is at best passable, and oftentimes, dismal. Margins in software, on the other hand... is quite amazing. If more ppl started switching to OSX, the next logical step isn't trying to force Apple hardware down ppl's throats at tiny margins, but trying to open up the market by offering OSX to more ppl, at much greater margin.

cheers,

yass

 

Again, I'd like to point out that 5 years ago, Intel wasn't on any offical "roadmap" of Apple. Even a year ago you ask a Mac user if he anticipates his entire platform to be moved to Intel, he'll probably laugh at you.

They will not release a "light" version -- that's suicide. They want to show that their OSX is superior to Windows -- why shoot themselves in the foot by releasing a crippled version? Again, ppl thinks Apple want ppl to switch so they can sell more hardware, but I think that their attitude is slowly but surely changing -- into being more of a SOFTWARE company. Their hardware no longer differentiates aside from style, their software is still as unique and robust as ever.

Apple want to make more ppl to switch, to OSX.

I know a lot of ppl, myself included, who would love to run OSX, but have no desire to have to buy a new Apple machine to run it. Now that they opened up the possibility of Windows on Apple machines, it gives more ppl a chance to look at OSX who might not have wanted to otherwise -- notice that the focus here is the OSX -- not the hardware -- Apple didn't do this so more ppl can experience the hardware, which is wholly unremarkable, but they want more ppl to experience OSX.

cheers,

yass

 

Every build of OS X over the last 5 years has been designed for Intel chips.

It wasn't that they knew they will switch, granted, but it was a way "of keeping their options open".

I agree. My main point is never say never generally.

It's the Apple hardware that complements the software and it is this that provides the total computing experience that so many enjoy.

It's the 'computing experience' imo which is what Apple look for.

Two examples of this is iSight and iChat or the Apple remote and Front Row, for instance.

 

That may be true when Mac was still on the POWER architecture, but now? I think it hardly matters. Everyone knows it's the same as the other OEM/ODM brands marked "Intel Inside". The camera thing isn't really unique anymore, Asus has whitebooks that has it, Sony has had it for quite some time (before Apple even, in Japan). Other companies didn't follow suite because they see it as a gimmick -- and more or less that is true. Those little bits and ends really doesn't differentiate the Apple hardware -- at its core it is still just another Intel machine. The whole experience? The whole experience is nothing more than the uniqueness of the OS.

There's nothing magical about Apple's hardware, they have styles that many ppl like, I will give them that. But peel back the exterior its all exactly the same -- the difference and the added-value being the OS alone.

cheers,

yass

 

Though Intel wasn't on any offical "roadmap" of Apple it was going to happen due to intel finnaly coming up to speed w/ what quality apple's pc were at to run apple's OS , therefore saving apple R&D , manufacturing and assembly cost.
I predict as more hardware comes up to apple's speed the more Win pc components you will see in there new apple pc's , until you will not be able to tell the Win pc from the apple's pc.(Except for the logos and apple's unusual outer shell design.)By then Microsoft system will have liberated all the great work apple has put into its OS and will claim them as its own, and Microsoft will rein supreme over the pc's of the earth and all will bow down at the alter of the workstation and give homage to the Win OS.Verily I say to thee , not the mac user tossing the sledghammer into the face of the bloated system will prevail , but as programmers and there blinded leaders will they will surely walk as in lockstep off the face of the cliff as lemmings.(But only during half time.)



Bill G.

 

Pfft, you made it sound as if Apple had a choice. Just because Apple's marketing has been touting the "supercomputer" that is the G5, and how it runs 3x faster than a comparable P4, doesn't mean it's actually TRUE. The truth of the matter was, that throughout the life of the POWER architecture, it's been playing a game of catchup. Unfortunately IBM/Motorola/whoever was unable to scale the G5 as fast as Intel/AMD can, with theirs, and the heat was REALLY beginning to becoming an issue as well -- The G5 was "watercooled", not because it's the cool thing to do -- but because it was NECESSARY! Even the extremely power-hungry and cook-your-egg-on-it P4EE can still be aircooled...

What I found it ironic was when Apple first announced their Intel iMac line, on their very website you can see their marketing touting it to be 1.5x faster than the G5, and the G5 being 2x faster than the P4... lol

Of course that bit about the G5 was removed very promptly... Another example of Steve Job's RDF (reality distortion field) in overdrive...

As to Apple -- they accounts to 5% of the PC Market, Intel has no reason to bow to any of their demands when the true juggernauts like DELL still has exclusive contracts with them. Apple is a niche market still, for them to breakout would require them to market their OS separately. I don't give a **** about their hardware "design" -- especially now that what's inside is exactly the same as in a Dell. Oh yeah there might be slight differences like ohhhh an included VIDEO CAMERA! But the core system is the same: ddr2 memory, Intel notebook cpu. I do think their OS is elegant thou (elegant, but not FAST), and another competitor to msft is always a good thing...

Differentiation for the sake of differentiation is stupid, as all it does is making the playing field that much more confusing. Differentiate because you have a superior product -- now THAT's something else.

cheers,

yass

 

"Pfft, you made it sound as if Apple had a choice."

Never had a choice due to its OS allways directly connected to its own hardware design, and rethinking about BootCamp , apple designed it not to lure Win PC users to apple , it designed it to keep its diminishing followers to stay w/ its apple OS and intel apple pc along with its dissapearing software.


"Apple is a niche market still, for them to breakout would require them to market their OS separately."

A wishful statement that would most likely p.o. the majority of apple users and would help in apple's survival and a pain in Microsoft backside.

"I don't give a **** about their hardware "design" -- especially now that what's inside is exactly the same as in a Dell. Oh yeah there might be slight differences like ohhhh an included VIDEO CAMERA! But the core system is the same: ddr2 memory, Intel notebook cpu."

Remember the BIOS differance.something Microsoft is also trying to change such as something similiar to , lets say "apple"


"I do think their OS is elegant thou (elegant, but not FAST), and another competitor to msft is always a good thing... "

Competitor???? but on a completely different playing field , apples own choice and eventual doom.


Bill G.

 

That's a rather fatalistic IMO. Apple *used* to have their special POWER architecture, but not anymore. Now their OS is NOT connected to anything unique. Apple doesn't have diminishing followers, in fact they are as popular now as ever. Their stocks have gone through the roof in the last few years, they've posted record earnings for many quarters. They are not looking to maintain their current base of users -- whom for the most part, are extremely loyal, bordering on fanatical about their PC. They are looking to EXPAND their userbase.

No I don't think OSX will disappear, and it will not be absorbed into Windows. Windows might be able to immitate the interface (big deal), but the BSDcore is what separates OSX from XP, not some fancy transparency effects.

At any rate, only time will tell, but to write off Apple as a has-been isn't something new -- back in 1997 when they re-hired Steve Jobs, Apple was written off as a has-been, and they recovered beautifully. The report of it's immenent demise is once again, greatly exaggerated.

cheers,

yass

 

I must say, I highly agree. Although I wouldn't call myself a fanatical Mac fan (because I like Windows too), the Operating System is what separates Macs from the rest of the Windows competition. Boot Camp was intended to make normal users (ones who don't do hard-core gaming), want to switch over to a new MacIntel, because they would be able to feel comfortable knowing they have Windows, but are also able to play around with OS X (and hopefully for Apple, become hooked). I don't see the demise of Apple anywhere close in the future, so unless something major happens, they're here to stay.

 

I can't wait to try out Bootcamp.

I'm working on an intel iMac at work, and putting together my thesis in MS Word, but dangit if Word doesn't slow WAYY down as I'm approaching 60 pages of text and numerous figures. I know that this will speed up once native version of Office are available, but for now I really look forward to installing BootCamp, XP, and Office, and editing this document with blazing speed under XP on this iMac.

Firefox is also slow, although the beta universal version of Camino is quick, I still find myself using Safari for speed reasons.

Its sorta funny that as apps are ported to run natively, these intel Macs will be the first computers to actually get faster as they get older.

Now, to decide whether to get a 15" MBP, or the Toshiba Satellite M100.. or to wait for an Asus or even a 13" MBP....

 

"Apple doesn't have diminishing followers, in fact they are as popular now as ever , whom for the most part, are extremely loyal, bordering on fanatical about their PC.They are looking to EXPAND their userbase.At any rate, only time will tell, but to write off Apple as a has-been isn't something new -- back in 1997 when they re-hired Steve Jobs, Apple was written off as a has-been, and they recovered beautifully."

Can not hire any new mindset (old blood) only repeats previous redundancy,
as for the there followers , you make it sound similiar to every religous fanatic group that ignores reality by not admitting that its only the old followers sticking w/ the apple system keep it from sinking into oblivian and that all the younger generation is following the Win PC system due to its never ending choice of software and apples depleting supply of any new software.The BootCamp proves this on the desperation on its only purpose to keep the present users from going to Win PC , and trying to cover up this fact by making it look like apple is doing the world a favor by its non desperate generosity.

tHErEALIST :centrino:

 

I'm sorry I don't quite follow what you are saying -- are you an insider working for Apple HR? How do you know that they don't hire any new mindsets? If anything, Apple has always been innovative whereas MSFT has been content to follow and copy... Not quite sure where you are coming from with this...

again, "apples depleting supply of any new software" -- where are you getting those information? lol Last time I checked, every major piece of software that Apple used to have, still are working, in fact, there are several best-in-class softwares that are not available on PC -- like FinalCut and Apature.

You kept on saying the Apple is "desparate" -- do you have any proof of that other than your *opinion* that Bootcamp is the last desparate attempt at keeping apple afloat? lol I'd have to say that Apple's financial statements say otherwise...

again, not sure what you are trying to say... "doing the world a favor"? huh?
It's a company -- like any other, who wants to expand it's business and be more profitable. I don't think Apple is in the business of doing anyone a favor. Nor is this an act of generosity -- it's simply a good business decision.

cheers,

yass