Maybe a typical question but can you convinvce me to buy a Macbook over similar Dell?

I am on the fence between an Apple Macbook 15 and a Dell (Dell Studio Laptop with Intel® Core™ i5 Processor: S15Z-2249CPN). They seem to have similar specs but the Apple is about $1800 while the Dell is $950

I posted a similar type of question in the "what should i buy" thread but I got limited replies. So I figured posting here with specific questions about Apple, may help.

I have friends who love their Macs and push Macs. My one friend said she'd pay 3x as much for her Apple..she had a very bad experience with her previous PC. I know Apples are a better machine. But I am having a tough time getting past the $850 (almost double!) price premium for the Macbook.

I figured this would be the place to talk me into it.

So I know the OS is better, they seem to be built tougher, less prone to viruses, programs are more intuitive etc. but for someone who is basically using their laptop to surf the internet, email, view and print pictures, play music etc. is it worth the premium?

Like I said, I'm on the fence so what else is it that makes them SO much more expensive than a PC? We're not talking a couple hundred, we're talking almost a thousand more.

Thanks in advance!

 

Quick answer to the title would be: Nope, can't do it.

The only person who can convince you to buy a Mac is you. If you're happy with Windows and the PC world stay there and don't fall prey to peer pressure. If you are looking for an alternative to Windows or are truly interested in Mac it will be a different story. The advantages are hard to explain to someone who looks at specs and price. I was a 20+ year PC user who laughed at people buying Apple computers and asked the same questions you do. Vista was my tipping point that opened me up to alternatives. When my wife insisted on replacing her Dell (when it died) with a Mac I got a chance to use one and became hooked. Playing around at a store or with a friend's system doesn't really give you a chance to see the differences other than the ones that turn off PC users because they are not the same as Windows.

I would look at the dock and huff "where's the start menu". Then I'd try to maximize a window using the green button and it would only open up enough to lose the scroll bar at the bottom. I'd look to the top right corner for the "x" and it wasn't there so I would think "who the hell designed this thing". While it took me a couple of days of use to get used to the changes I like OS X's way of doing these things better now.

If you are really interested in OS X ask some specific questions. If you're not really interested my original comment still applies, you cannot be convinced so stay in PC land.

 

OK, I just went through your previous posts to get a better idea of what you are doing with the system and your requirements. Here is a quote for others who may want to respond.

You're actually in a good position to make the switch to OS X since you are currently using XP. Vista and 7 are quite different than XP in many ways so there will be some adjustments if you stay with PC or go Mac. I see you have mentioned using Office and that you take quite a few pictures. If you are still using Office, what exactly are you doing with it since Office for Mac is a little less functional. Do you currently use any programs with your pictures or are you just using the picture gallery in XP? I'm just trying to get a real feel for your needs here.

 

The simple fact that you're even contemplating on buying a Macbook is enough sign that you should actually buy it.

Macbooks have this effect on all my peers and everybody I've talked to. Their "magnet" is much stronger than any Dell's, Acer's, HP's, etc.

Go into an Apple Store if you can, and play around with one for a couple of hours. That's the best way to get an idea.

Same thing happened with me when I bought my first MBP back in '07. I was weighing left and right and finally couldn't resist the build quality, OS X and pretty much just trying a new way of thinking about computers.

Totally paid off in the end, no buyers remorse what-so-ever.

Don't mean to sound like a do&#he, but now I look at people with Sony Vaios and HPs and Dells and can't help but ask: "Why are you people torturing yourselves like that??"

Cheers!

 

mac is perfact for you since you only do simple things on computer. you'll enjoy osx more. the reason behind my statement is that i find it is easier to read stuffs on mac osx than windows. and the LCD screens apple use are top notch.

the question is really down to does price primium justify the pleasures you'll gain from mac osx. because with that much money, you could buy 2 laptops.

 

It's really closer to 3 computers for the price of that MBP 15". My sister-in-law picked up a Core i3 powered Acer down at Costco for under $600 w/ 2yr warranty for her parents. It's a boat at 6lb but if it never leaves the house you're not likely to notice the difference in build quality. They're brand new to computing but Win7 isn't exactly a steep learning curve for basic functions.

The 15" MBP wins slightly on portability, build quality, battery life, and the performance advantage only really shows up when heavily loaded. The 1440x900 screen is a bit nicer in res and quality but reading web pages and looking at pictures are fine on almost any screen available these days. If it doesn't leave the house often, there's little argument for a 7hr battery.

The cheapo Acer wins on longer warranty, matches on memory, hd space, and connectivity by including ESata, HDMI, and more USB ports. The all plastic construction may not last if tossed in a bag daily and hauled around the world but I don't consider a MBP a truly travel ready workhorse given how delicate its aluminum finish is.

In the end not everyone needs a Macbook Pro. Arguing that it views web pages better is a bit pointless since that's one of the most basic tasks a computer from 2002 can still do well. That and Flash pages on Mac are incredibly heavy due to poor integration. Buying a MBP to sit around the house doing light tasks is a big waste of money. Being able to swipe around a bit more for a few web pages is a poor return on investment of the added 1200-1400 over an average laptop from one of the big PC manufacturers.

As for the OSX advantage, I've had a few Macs over the years and never found much benefit from running it. My current Mac Mini spends 99% of its time in Windows 7 via bootcamp and I see no reason to ever load OSX.

If you need serious portability, there are pro-grade options from Dell (not the Studio line), HP, and Lenovo that are built just as well as any Apple and not all are covered in easily scratched aluminum. Those machines are more suited to compete against the Apple and most are well over the 1k mark.

To the OP, go try a MBP out at the store like BestBuy where they have them out alongside regular PC's. If you feel the web browsing experience is $1,200 better...then feel free to buy one.

 

I can see this is going to go downhill quickly (as usual). You're going to get arguments on both sides of the fence. You need to compare more than a few select items when deciding which is better. Anyone can find something to "prove" one system is better than another but it doesn't mean they are right. In the end only the OP can decide what is the best fit for him. For some people the extra cost of a Mac is a larger value due to easy of use, build quality, resale value, iLife suite and less headaches. Others prefer cheapest price and put up with the annoyances of a cheap system. The real question is which category does the OP fall into.

 

I can see this point. I was one of those people "happy with my PC", actually several of them. I bought my Mac as toy, nothing more. I was getting bored with my personal PC's, and figured the headaches of purging, fighting malware, viruses, and OS instability was just maintenance issues you had to live with. I had become so savvy, that I am the IT person within my company, and the guy people would call upon to fix their computer when the Geek Squad wanted $400 or more to solve other people's issues.

So, I bought my "toy", and gradually became almost a convert. I am far from being a Mac expert. The beauty of the Mac is you don't have to be an expert to derive a pleasurable experience doing nearly all the same things on a Mac, what would be work on a PC, when counting all the other tasks that have to be done, not to mention the constant vigilance required to make sure that the system remains smoothly working at peak performance.

As I write this, my Macbook rests on top of a PC notebook of my FIL that I just spent a few hours this weekend "repairing". He's had this computer for less time than I've had my MB, and he was ready to chuck it over the nagging issues of crashes, hangups, and slug slow performance that had taken hold. When he handed it to me, it wouldn't even boot up anymore.

Some Mac users have either forgotten, or have never had the trials that a great many novice PC users are aggravated over, every day. If you are busy on the net, you are going to be either busy maintaining your system or suffer system degradation and failure that Mac users are spared, for the most part.

Is the Mac some sort of perfection? Heck no. If the application genre you use is PC-centric, then as many people have said, A Mac makes a poor PC...and they are right. But if I put myself in the shoes of someone like the person who started this thread, then I really think that a Mac may be an excellent choice.

I say look at the applications you will be using and gauge the support of such on the Mac. When evaluating the costs of the Mac, make sure you evaluate the savings as well. No antivirus to update, and re-buy every year. Really none of the requisite utilities to purge, restore degradation, and fighting other malware. Evaluate the price you place on aggravation.

At this time, I still spend 10x plus as much time on a PC than a Mac. But when I am on my time, and it is my choice, I rarely open any of my personally owned PC's anymore, and that includes a Toshiba I just got for Christmas.

 

Word for word ... You just described my situation.

Sure I am on my Desktop PC right now, but that's because I need a huge monitor for my thesis write ups. When I'm on my own time and doing the casual thing on the internet ... I will always use my Mac over my PC.

 

The only thing I can say that I love about having a Macbook is:

A) Mac osx + Windows + Linux + Unix on one system
B) Trackpad is huge and amazing to use.
C) Build Quality is similar if not better then Lenovo!

 

I don't even consider it a premium.

When I'm doing basic day to day stuff and multitasking the MBP is just more pleasant to use than any of the 3 PCs I own (2 of which are dell laptops).

Sure the hardware is older ... But unless you've actually used a MBP I suggest you do yourself a favor and get that "Oh but it's got lower specs" nonsense out of your head. This thing will run circles around any PC with similar or "slightly" better specs.

 

I am getting side-tracked from this thread.

Lenovo? Really now. From the experience @ Apple Store, I agree that MacBook feels quite sturdy..but even at the store in a high ventilated area, the 15" feels warm... I get it.. it is alumnium (what do I expect from metal that conducts heat?), but still, I am a little unsure about buying a laptop that can heat up too much. And that's with two fans! My ThinkPad also has a discrete GPU, but it only needs one fan and it is whisper quiet (because of ThinkPad' fan design inspired by owl). Very rarely the fan would go over 6000 RPM (normally hovers around 1800-ish RPM).

I have owned nuermous number of PC laptops/notebooks in the past. The hottest (temperature wise) is the one with Pentium 4 mobile CPU inside (it was a Compaq Evo). And the second worst is the HP DV2000t with CoreDuo (HP really sucks at heat management)

So in terms of build quality (appearance and feel), Lenovo & Apple really goes neck to neck
But in terms of heat management + fan noise mitigation... Lenovo tops, Dell comes in second, and Apple comes in third, and finally HP.

 

It all depends on your own experience and what system you are using as a reference point. The Dells I owned were noisy as heck and would torch my lap. Did you ever see the review here about the xps 16 that gets to 115 degrees in spots?



The lenovo in my house isn't as noisy as the Dell but does get quite warm. My mac has been silent except for a couple of times where I could hear the fans kick up to 4000 rpm. I can say that my Mac has never got as warm as the lenovo and the Dell systems. I think I'd rather revert to a reputable source when looking at reliability. Check out consumer reports and see what you find.

 

I would say heat is model (design) dependent than brand.
It depends on many factors, heatsink layout/size, fan algorithm, thermal interface material and vent design.

I have 2 Acers.
1 maxes out at 80 degrees on CPU and 75 degrees on GPU when I max out the CPU and GPU (how many of you can max out the CPU and GPU simultaneously without the computer overheating on you?) while the other auto turns off (Overheat) and I live in a hot country.
The 1 with excellent heat dissipation has the GPU closer to the fan sink than the CPU, larger heatsink with better vent holes.

I don't know why people always has this silly notion about branding when logically speaking it has always been the design.

The way the factory does the thermal paste application is messy and impede thermal flow, I reapplied it using my own thermal paste and the temps went down.

 

Wow, I post on the other thread and got 2. I post here and 18 hours later I get 10 replies. Whoo hoo! Let me do some reading and do some answering..

 

Regarding Office, that is a big thing for me. I use Excel and Word every day (should have mentioned that in the other thread) and it's important that I don't lose that functionality. I understand that one can load on Microsoft Office onto a Macbook? If so, do they run as they would on a PC? I'm assuming not since you say it's a "little less functional". I think that's something I need to look into, but I don't know anyone with Excel on their Macbook. I really don't want to have to learn/use another spreadsheet program because many of the Excel/Word files I use on my laptop get transferred back and forth from work (PC with Microsoft Office).

So can someone confirm the usability of Office on Macbook?

Regarding pictures, I usually just use Picasa to do some basic editing. I'd love to do more but simply don't have the time that I used to (two kids under 3). I realize I could use iPhoto (and I'd probably love it) but quite frankly, Picasa suits me fine for what I need.

Thanks!

 

Agree, I need to get into a store and play around. I actually went over to a friends house and played on their Macbook and did really like it. I'd really like to see what Excel looks like on it though.

I think where I am different than the typical PC user is that I simply have not had the horror stories with my PC. I've had my Dell laptop almost 4 years. I have run into an occasional virus but I simply went online and visited some forums (like this), did what they suggested, and basically fixed it myself. I run free malware, spyware, and virus programs so I just don't run into many problems. My OS has never crashed. My laptop did get appear bogged down a year ago but I simply researched how to reload Windows and I did so. I also replaced the hard drive and repartitioned..all learning on the fly and using help forums. I back up my files every month so I don't have the fear of "losing everything" as some anti-PC folks say.

So all the comments about needing technical service every 4 months or the OS crashing or replacing your PC every 2-3 years etc. just don't apply to me. Not yet at least!

THAT is what makes it so tough to spend so much extra for the Macbook. My friend who bought one last year, HATED her Dell. Hated, hated. So it was a no brainer for her. Not so easy for me, since I can actually say I've had a pleasant experience with my Dell...

 

Like someone said earlier, if you are even considering a Mac then go for it. If you go with the masses and get another common PC you will wish you had tried the Mac just because. OS X is amazing OS and you should have very little concerns in terms of software. In fact the UI on many apps that are made for both Mac OS X and Windows looks much better on Mac OS X and is generally more intuitive.

 

hmmm sounds to me you just want a good quality computer - one that works with no risk of overheating and with good warranty coverage just in case? and for it to look decent with Al? have a decent screen and specs? well you don't need to buy a mac to do that...

look at the HP Elitebook 8530p/w(these are least gen, but should be cheap aka less than a 1000$) or one of the new HP 8540w. these computers are built with Magnesium alloy frame with an Aluminum shell I've heard there is video of someone taking steel wool to the palmrest area and there not being a scratch afterwards. p series has 3year return to depot warranty. w has 3 year next business day.

oh and don't confuse HP's consumer line to the Elitebook line they even have there own separate phone numbers. in many areas the Elitebooks are far better than Thinkpads.

but by all means if you really want a mac get a mac, but I strongly recommend playing with one at the apple store first... I wish I had done that when I bought my mac... my mac experiment didn't go as well as other people in this thread... it really is a personal preference thing, I just hate the OSX interface (along with a few other things), but I won't elaborate because I'm not in the mood for a flame war.

any way good luck!

 

Your experiment was a bit different as you bought a used mac to tinker with so you could say you had experience with it. I know a new version of office is coming but you should really look into the comparability between the two versions. You would need to purchase an OS X version of office which will add to your cost. I prefer the iWork suite but there are issues converting between it and office. It's looking less and less like a Mac is your best choice. You seem happy with Windows, office and Dell so suggest you stay away from Mac for now. Who knows maybe in another 4 years you'll be ready.

 

lithnights,
I can't really be of any good guide. I am waiting for my first MacBook Pro to arrive this Friday. But let me tell you how I ended up buying a MacBook. only 14 days ago I would not even think about it: for all the good reasons (not wanting to relearn things, compability issues, not wanting to join this Mac-cult world , etc. etc. etc.). So why did I eventually decide on a Mac? I needed something portable, quiet, reliable, durable. And Lenovo didn't do it for me this time (problems with noise..CPU whining and other issues..I returned a new t400s). Then I reviewed user experiences on many sites and found, quite surprisingly, that almost no user complained about his/her Mac experience...that was, honestly, quite stunning for you will find a lot of complaints on any other brand including brands such as Lenovo (i'd say 70% satisfied, 30% dissatisfied...with Mac these figures looked much more like 90% to 10% if not better...really tough to find anyone who complained..try it yourself). But eventually for me it was really the hardware rather than software that sold me on Mac.
Now no one has really backed-up the opinion of Mishab here but I think he's got a point: if you don't plan on moving your computer around too much (i.e. if it stays at home most of the time) I don't see the need to pay the extra premium, to be honest. I got Mac cause I need something that will be able to travel with me- and traveling I do a lot. And finding a reliable machine that can do that is not that simple (basically I'd say it's only Lenovo and Mac given their build quality). But you can get a really nice system for much less money and chances of that machine getting broken are slim if you don't move it around too much.
As for the software issues on Mac: I can't comment cause I have no comparative experience yet. There are, however, ways how you can quite easily run Windows in OS X these days (e.g. Parallels etc.) and you might want to look into it before you make a decision.
To sum it up: If i was in your situation I would probably go for something much cheaper just because you can - you really don't require too much from you computer. With a 3-year guarantee even a cheaper computer won't be any risk to your investment (in this sense Acers look really good for the money).
good luck and let us know how you've decided.

btw. as you said this is a great sub-forum. Mac community (and the same applies to Lenovo) is really alive. I like to come here to get advice from people who seem to know a lot!

 

Here's an article on Office 2011 for Mac that is supposed to fix the functionality differences between the PC and Mac versions of Office. Even though the computer will not be moved around doesn't necessarily mean a PC is a better choice. My father never moves his computer and has had reliability problems with Dell and Toshiba systems. I still think a PC is a better choice for the OP.

 

of course you can use Crossover Mac and just run MS Office for Windows....

or worst case, use VMware or Parallels just for office, but I'd stay clear of virtual machines if at all possible, serious resource hogs.

 

I agree...a PC is a better choice for the OP.

 

I've read all these replies and I really appreciate all the advice. I assumed posting in the Apple forum wold have given me some really biased answers but so far I've been pleased with the openmindedness of the replies.

The more I have thought about, and just spoke to my brother who has a Mac, I am thinking the Excel issue is a big one. I literally have one or two Excel spreadsheets open on my laptop all day, every day. One is a daily schedule sort of thing I've used for years and I rely on it a dozen times a day. It has macros, formulas, multiple tabs, lists etc. so it's not just a simple calendar. My wife has a similar type of spreadsheet that she uses every day. I need what I have and won't stop using that.

My brother said I could use Excel but it would either require me to use bootcamp, parallel, fusion or something like that.. or I could buy Office for Mac. Well I own Office 07 for Windows so I don't see myself spending yet another $200? just to use a Mac. He said I could also just run the Windows version but I'd have to go back and forth between OS X and Windows. Not happening.

Another concern is the learning curve for a Mac..not for me but for my wife. She still has issues with some basic Windows stuff so I can't imagine trying to teach a whole other OS to her. She has to use Windows at work so it's not like she can forget about Windows. Also if Excel acts a bit different on a Mac then I'm stuck trying to explain those differences to her. I'm willing, but if I don't to, life is easier. : )

Also, and for most this is no big deal and probably laughable, but... no page up and page down keys? I use these a ton with my spreadsheets, long Word docs, and some long emails. I know there are other ways to get through data but page up/down key is the simplest. My old Sony Vaio (10 years old..slow but still kicking) doesn't have page up/down keys (had to hit function up arrow or function down arrow) and it drove me crazy for years until I got my Dell.

So, although I really wanted to get talked into getting a Mac and have heard lots of good arguments for it, I'm just not sure it's in my best interest. With that said, I'm always openminded, haven't made a final decision, and am very wishy washy..haha.. so feel free to comment.

Thanks all!

 

most Excel spreadsheets can run fine in other software that is excel compatible... wether its a different version of Office or non-MS software. Your best bet is to get your hands on a Mac (Apple store nearby?) and actually try out your spreadsheet in different things they probably have... Numbers, OpenOffice.... MS Office if they actually have it installed... see if it works.

yes... bootcamp lets you dual boot Windows and OSX. VMWare Fusion and Parallels (and VirtualBox which is almost as good, yet free) let you run a virtual machine in OSX so you can run Windows at the same time... so you can still be running OSX and all OSX apps, then just open Windows version of Excel as well.... requires a full Windows license since you have to install Windows on the virtual machine.

on the Macbook and desktop small keyboards, there is no dedicated PgUp and PgDn. If you hook up a full sized keyboards they work fine. On the smaller keyboards you just use Fn+Up Arrow and Fn+Down Arrow for page up and page down... like your Vaio. Theres also other short cuts using the CMD key (Apple key) and arrows.. moving paragraphs or end and home.. or moving whole pages or whole documents.. etc... but you can always plug in a full size keyboard when at your desk and just use a 'normal' keyboard.

You have to be willing to learn a different way of doing things...

 

You already know what will work for you, we can't keep giving you constant input on buying a Mac otherwise these posts are just for pure entertainment value for you rather than help. A Windows machine would be better for you, the majority of your posts talk more about running Windows in general and/or via Bootcamp so you can run your Windows software. Why go through so much trouble? You've spent more time in this post alone explaining your way OUT of buying a Mac. It's done, buy a Windows machine and be done with it.

Your concerns should've been addressed within just a few posts and I think most people here gave you some sound advice, most of them were recommending you buy Windows machine. We've offered help, it's not our job to convince you to buy a Mac, otherwise it becomes our responsibility if you are not happy with one.

 

Yes I do plan to take a couple files to a store and still check out the Macbook.

I want to avoid any type of virtual machine. And I do not want to buy a copy of Windows.

Agree about the keyboard option..that's actually what my brother does. But our laptop sits on our kitchen counter (bar height and not too deep) so there is no room for a keyboard.

I am more than willing to learn new things..I'm just afraid of my wife not being as receptive.

So when you add all these up, it feels like, as much as I may want it to be, it's just not meant to be..for my situation. If it was a typical desk location, limited Excel/Office use, no wife learning factor etc. I think I'd be ready to buy a Macbook. But with all the barriers and huge price premium, the initial $900 difference + potentially $200 for Windows + potentially $200 for Office, it just doesn't seem practical.

 

Are you serious? All I can say I guess is.. umm.. thanks. Thanks for the helpful post.

I already know what will work for me? Really, I wasn't aware of that. Actually I didn't know what would work for me..I'm still learning. My concerns were addressed in the first couple posts? Really? Nowhere in there did it talk in detail about Office and the potential limitations. I only learned about that in the last couple hours. Same with bootcamp or fusion, which I still don't fully understand. That's why I'm posting, and that's why helpful posters reply. In fact, last night I specifically asked "So can someone confirm the usability of Office on Macbook?" Since then, I made a grand total of 2 posts. I'm truly sorry for inundating the forum. And sorry that everyone else replied with thoughts, I guess they weren't as offended as you.

You say most advised me to buy a PC. Huh? A couple did but only after I further explained my situation. You may want to go back and read the other posts, the majority pushed the Mac..including YOU.

Oh well, while every other poster made this forum look great (huge thanks to everyone else!), you sure didn't. But then again, looking at most of your previous posts in multiple threads, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Keep up the great helpful work!

 

OK boys, play nice.

If your concern is your wife, I wouldn't worry too much. If you migrate from XP to Windows 7, there is a learning curve when dealing with settings and such. There is also the new UI in Windows 7 so either way there will be a change. I can tell you that my Wife and Mother-in-Law are by no means tech savvy and they were the driving factor to my house switching to Mac. They have taken to OS X like a fish to water on the most part and are enjoying their computers much more now. I went from constant questions and problems with them using Vista to occasional questions under OS X. I could easily spend a whole day (sometimes several when an update wouldn't install) doing maintenance on the 5 PCs I had in the house. Under OS X, I may spend 1/2 hour installing updates on 4 Macs but still need to pull my hair out on the final PC in the house which is only a little over a year old.

I can understand your worries about MS Office but suggest you really look into it to see if you are actually affected by the differences. My understanding is that the biggest issue is virtual basic not being in the Mac version but MS says it will be in Office 2011.

 

I'll tell you that I absolutely love my MBP. I have a few other laptops but I ultimately end up using my MBP most of the time.

Having said that, the newer iCore dell studio laptops have great specs. I'm ordering one for my nephew because I just hired him on with our company. I'll be training him in Oracle Apps / EDI, PL/SQL development, and mostly working with our clients/customers in Windows environments. He can save his money and buy one later if he wants a Mac.

My first idea was to buy him a 13" or 15" MBP but ultimately decided to get a nicely speced out Dell 15" Studio (aka 1558).

i5-520M, Win7 Pro 64bit, HD display, 1gig ATI video, 500GB 7200 HDD, 6 GB RAM, and some nice ports: USB powered eSata combo port, express card, firewire, ethernet, USB2.0... it should have 3.0 Even has a backlit keyboard. Priced with 3 yrs full coverage includeing accidental coverage (don't have to worry about him spilling beverages on it)... about $1650

or I can option it with an i7-720QM quad with a 320GB for about the same price.

But again, if I were buying for myself I'd still get the MBP. I use Parallels Desktop 5, but I have 8GB ram and 1TB drive space.

in my opinion, you can't go wrong either way.

 

As someone who has owned a Mac for over 3 years now, has 5 iPods, an original iPhone, and had my iPad delivered the day it was released, I highly recommend against getting a Mac.

Theres just too many downsides too it. You hear a lot about how people go on and on about the build quality. Well, the build quality isn't all its made out to be. I'm on my third MacBook now (late 2008 aluminum unibody model) thanks to build quality issues being made worse by Apple's repair facility. The plastic model Macs are some of the worst built systems in the industry. They had top case cracking issues and bottom case cracking issues due to a poor cooling system design. Now the current "unibody" plastic MacBooks have severe issues with the top case/screen housing cracking around the hinges. You just don't don't see those types of issues in the PC world.

The previous generation MacBook Pros that shared the design with the PowerBooks had issues with warping due to heat, and were very easily scratched and dented. The current generation Core i5 MacBook Pro now has heating issues, because Apple chooses to make their computers fashion accessories rather than real tools. There is also issues with warping due to heat, still. And issues with the plastic hinge that holds the screen and base together. That has been known to crack and warp with heat.

The $2,200 Core i7 MacBook Pro literally costs double what a better spec'ed PC notebook costs.

The only real plus Macs have going for them would be the battery life. But even thats not an issue. Because, let's face it, in the real world, you're carrying your system around in some sort of bag. Hopefully a backpack for your own health, since carrying a one sided bag can affect your back over time. PCs have user replaceable batteries. That means you can toss an extra battery in your bag and get the same real world battery life as a Mac. I've had a double capacity battery for my HP for years now, as well as the higher capacity 6 cell. When I'm carrying the system and two batteries in my backpack I don't feel a thing. I've been getting 10 hours of real world battery life for years now. It's just not an issue. Plus, the real downside to Apple's battery life is that the batteries are extremely slow to recharge. I can have both of my HP batteries fully recharged in the time it takes my aluminum MacBook's 5 hour battery to recharge.

If you need to run Windows, you absolutely have to do it in Boot Camp. I don't care what VMWare or Parallels try to say, running Windows in a virtual machine is an absolute joke. It's like taking a Corvette and making it front wheel drive. Virtual machines completely ruin what Windows is capable of.

Then theres OS X. I know many "switchers" who have gone back and done a reverse switch, because OS X feels "too restricting" or "too limited". And with Windows 7's recent release, even more are switching back. I know a lot who have just wiped OS X off their drive all together and installed Windows 7.

OS X is nice. But it has too many limitations compared to Windows 7. Everything OS X can do, Windows 7 can as well. However, everything WIndows 7 can do, OS X cannot. Thats an inarguable fact. Mac OS X has a lot of catching up to do, especially in the "fun" department. If you want to play a game or watch a movie on your system then you have to switch over to Windows. Then at that point you realize your Mac can't keep up with the PC that would have cost you half as much.

Now that I have an iPad that can do nearly everything I needed a mobile computer to do, my MacBook sits on the desk with its lid closed hooked up to an external display. I think about how much the MacBook originally cost me. I could have built two good desktop PCs in that same amount of time and both of them would still be faster than the vast majority of desktops Apple is currently selling.

By buying a Mac, you are literally paying double, or triple in some cases, what a PC would cost you. And there is absolutely nothing about the "experience" that would justify that extra cost. Nothing. At all. Every so-called advantage you hear about OS X having over Windows is based on fluff arguments that only might have been true in the 90s, but no longer. Every bad thing you hear about Windows is also a myth.

I have a friend who recently got screwed over big time by AppleCare and that MacBook HDD warranty recall. She wanted to switch to a PC but she kept going on about "Windows maintenance". Again, its a myth. When I told her I have to run software update in OS X and Onyx just as much as I have to run Windows Update and ccleaner in Windows, she was surprised. For years, all of her Apple fan friends and family went on and on about all of these things. She told me all of them and its all a myth.

Go with the Dell. It has better hardware. If you're worried about post-purchase support, Dell offers warranties that Apple will never touch, like accidental damage and in-home servicing. Or better yet, sending YOU the part so you can put it in yourself.

Apple's post purchase support is terrible as well. Of all the pre-manufactured PCs I've owned, the manufacturer has always pushed through software or firmware updates that add new features of functionality, or improve the way certain things run. For instance, on my HP notebook, HP pushed through free software updates adding functionality that didn't come with the system. They pushed down a new fingerprint manager, different and more functional than the one it shipped with. They gave us a free copy of Cyberlink Youcam. They even released a firmware update so the built-in card reader would have better compatibility with newer higher capacity SD cards. Apple never does that sort of thing. Sure, they do with the iPhone. But how long will that last? Apple dropped support for the original iPhone and iPod touch, despite the fact that both are still perfectly functional and have the exact same internal hardware as the iPhone 3G and iPod touch 2G, which they continue to support. They even lied about why the original iPhone couldn't receive an update for MMS. I love my iPad, but with the 4.0 announcement, I nearly returned it. If I pay a premium for a product, I expect more than 2 years of support. I would have returned it if not for the fact that Apple would have charged me a 15% restocking fee and the money I would have lost on purchased apps thanks to Apple's no refund policy on the App Store.

All of this was typed on a MacBook while syncing my 32GB wifi iPad.

 

I will be sure to play nice. I was just taken aback by that post. I thought I had done everything right in this forum.. posted details of what I need, replied back promptly to helpful posters, not bashed either system, thanked helpful posters etc. And I get that post? Oh well. Can't please everyone.

You're right, I should check out Excel in Mac and that's exactly what I plan to do. In fact, just tonight I was over at a friends house who has Excel on her Mac and was playing. It had a different layout/look to it and I asked her about it but she didn't know and said "I just put the disk in and loaded it". She doesn't use Excel all that often to know the difference between Windows and Mac anyway. I will be heading to an Apple store with some of my Excel files.

And I heard the same about VB not in Mac Office but that's not a big deal to me. I used to use macros and write some basic VB code but not much anymore, and can live without it.

 

Well that's 3 minutes of my life, wasted.

 

Funny. I agree, that sure was a lot.

I was just thinking, if HLDan didn't like my posts, this one may make his head explode. Sorry that was too easy..

But seriously it is interesting to see posts like this..it's not often you see Apple users not happy with their products. I know they're out there, you just don't hear about them often I guess.

 

Jervis961, and you call on other people to play nice . I'd say that you should have been more thorough with your replay, not so dismissive as it appears. That's something I'd calling "playing it nice".

 

I though about commenting on her posting history which is full of complaints to the point of making you think she either has really bad luck or just likes to complain. I thought about giving a link to her previous glowing report about apple's customer service. I thought about posting a quote where she talks about how well her fragile Mac has held up without a scratch. I thought about asking if she needs to shut down her PC to switch batteries while a Mac user just keeps working. I thought about pointing out how much she's complained about HP even though she's praising it here. I even thought about pointing out how many of the claims she makes are a bit over the top and using absolutes like always and never take even more credibility away from those claims. In the end I decided to keep it short, which I think was being nice.

 

fair enough, seems I am not in the loop . Still new in this part of the forum.

 

I'm only commenting on the initial post, not any of the drama that may have happened in the thread since then.

I spent most of 2008 trying to get a defect-free Dell XPS 15 and then later a Dell Studio 17. Seriously, I'm not being picky, but, when the finger-print reader gives you 3rd degree burns, you've got issues.

My second Studio 17 was great for 14 months, then it spontaneously melted - I exaggerate you not When I disassembled it to rescue the HDs, it was simply the main wiring that was getting red-hot and destroying the media controls and screen hinge.

I then (some might say stupidly) tried a Studio XPS 16 in late Feb. It lasted exactly 1 week before the plug became un-seated. After considering re-seating it myself, I decided that THAT was it.

I returned my 8th bad Dell and switched to a MBP 17". Absolutely no regrets and guess what? I have had a few issues and Apple has deftly handled every one - above and beyond my expectations. My other half has had a 15" MBP for over a year. I just can't believe I was that dumb to go through 2 years of Round Rock Hell.

Go Mac, you will not go back.

 

It's funny how people start these kind of lame threads which end up in flame war.

 

can you convince me to buy a BMW 328i over a similarly equipped Honda Accord? both have a similar-sized engine, leather interior, a steering wheel, speakers, satNav, 17" wheels, my favorite color, decent looks.

where's da justice in the Bimmer costing $14k more???

it's all about what you prioritize and how valuable those things are to you. my brother has a Mac and greatly prefers the experience, and he was raised PC. I've always been a PC guy and have never owned a Mac. I may join the Mac club. If you see something in OSX or the hardware that you find significantly compelling, go for it. If there's some app that you want/need access to that only comes with OSX...go for it. otherwise, you can be very happy with a PC. maybe "happy" is too strong a word. you'll be very "satisfied", as I've never been "happy" with Windows so much as content that it cooperates most of the time.

just don't buy an el-cheapo PC and expect the hardware to be of comparable quality and durability. if you want machines comparable to the MBP in those areas, you need to look at Dell Latitudes and HP ProBook's. otherwise, you're not really comparing apples to apples (like comparing a Honda to a BMW...at least step up to the Acura before comparing).

 

Hey! Don't diss the Accord, that's what I drive. Don't buy an overpriced BWM when an Accord does the same thing cheaper. Both have steering wheels, an engine, gas and break pedals. Both will get you from point a to point b safely. If you buy a Bimmer you just do it to get attention and don't defend them because I'll call you a fanboi!!

Sorry, couldn't help it.

 

MBP 15" here. Just switched from PC and will not look back! Love it.

 

ultimately, i think it's an effective analogy. why buy a $52k BMW 335i when you can buy a $38k Infiniti G37 and get 95% of the same performance? Why buy any Audi when you can get more performance for the same money from Mercedes or BMW? if you want power, why not just buy a Mustang (400hp+ in the new GT 5.0) instead of a MB C63AMG?

because sometimes there are reasons that go beyond the sum of their parts. because sometimes you realize you're buying more than just an engine (or a CPU and GPU). because you sometimes you realize things are similar on the surface, but very different when you go beyond skin depth. because for some people, the quietness of the cabin and smoothness of the ride are more important than the power of the engine...and visa versa. hell, for some people, the placement and convenience of the cup holders can make or break a car purchase.

bottom line: people buy things based on their priorities. nobody should be upset that their priorities are different from someone else's. I don't begrudge people that I may think are stupid for buying dual-GPU laptops or machines with mediocre displays. maybe all they do with a laptop is play games or write papers, in which case those kinds of machines are sufficient. why should anyone begrudge those who prioritize the things that make the MBP a strong candidate?

 

+1 to rep for that. For some reason the PC vs Mac debate gets pretty heated. The problems come when outlandish claims or exaggerations are made against either system. Sometimes people do have valid gripes on either side though and people get judged incorrectly (a mistake I've made and had made against me). Just buy what makes you happy.

 

ajreynol, well said. I think that sums it up. Everyone has different preferences, priorities, needs. What works for one, may not work for another. I think my constant demand for Excel may push me towards a PC. If it wasn't for that, I'd likely be pushed towards a Mac.

I didn't mean to start a "lame thread" but after scanning dozens of threads, I realized my situation was pretty unique so I thought I'd try to get some help. And I did get some good feedback.

To some of the more sensitive folks..please realize that many thread starters are far from experts, have done some initial research, and are simply looking for a little guidance. I won't say anymore..I don't want to risk getting bashed anymore for wasting people's time on a lame thread or already knowing what I want.

Thanks again all!

 

get the Envy 14 when it comes out June 27th.
it is going to be more powerful than a Mac but have about equal quality build,
and they do have pretty much the exact same look.

HP Envy 14 and 17 officially official, Envy 13 slowly waves goodbye -- Engadget

 

HP is ranked dead last is reliability according to consumer reports (and not by a small margin). The full specs aren't even known yet. The new Envy just may be the cat's meow of PCs but it not a good idea not to make those kind of claims before its even been released and tested.

 

there there now, i forgive you

 

skimmed the thread. to answer the OP's original call, my thoughts on reasons to buy a mac over a Dell:

- better build quality and tolerances
- higher quality internals
- thin, light, and durable aluminum unibody
- multitouch trackpad
- backlit keyboard
- magsafe power adapter
- better software (can run windows too if you disagree with me)
- adaptively charged lithium polymer battery allows for a lifespan many years greater than the Dell's battery (saving you both money and frustration)
- higher resale value
- far better customer service (phone support is north american based as opposed to being outsourced and apple stores allow you to talk face to face with a real person)
- Apple won't screw you over the way dell might (read the dell/alienware forums if you don't know what i'm talking about)

just my 2 cents off the top of my head. i wouldn't waste my time with dell. it may be cheaper initially but Dell systems have build quality and customer service that is laughable compared to Apple (again, read the forums). Additionally, the battery thing is HUGE for me. Having to replace your notebook battery 18 - 24 months into its life is such a PITA. and... MUCH better software.