Macbook Pro experiences?

I'm very interested in the mbp 15 (i7) , mbp 13 and of course the Envy 14.
I've done quite some googling and asking around my macbook pro friends (they mainly used the 2008 or older generations) but I still have some questions that are keeping me away from buying a Macbook pro.

note: I'm mainly looking at the i7 Macbook pro 15 because of its power.
*and ps. I have read through some of the big threads here already.

You're experiences and insights with OSX and Macbook Pro's would be great.


*For background, I am a college student who will want (in order of importance):
1. Convenience (ease and slickness of use, like gestures to make life faster and easier on the laptop)

2. Game Power (ability to run most games on medium/high settings...like crysis and oblivion)

3. Stability (as a student I can't have the comp crashing especially if papers are due and etc.)



Some of the most critical factors are:

A Operating System and convenience.
I have heard that OSX and their various gestures and applications (Spaces, expose...etc.) convey greater convenience and productivity compared to windows 7 laptops. However, with synaptics drivers out, multitouch seems to be less of a difference now with pc laptops and mbps.

Basically I'm hugely concerned with the user experience on OSX mbp compared with that on a PC laptop (windows 7) ...assuming both are high specced laptops.

1. Can anyone comment on this?


B Graphics and Battery Life.
The switchable graphics on the new MBP's are okay but they seem to be on the weaker side for any gaming (such as Starcraft 2 on parrallels/ fusion).


2. However, the flip side I heard is that OSX is so efficient that if can use "weaker" hardware to achieve better results than a similarly specced pc laptop.

3. I have heard the integrated Intel graphics are EXTREMELY weak...meaning they will produce choppiness even when just minimizing windows... is this true? (I read this from this forum)

4. Power to emulate (fusion and parallels and such). I have much software (office and adobe suite ) for windows and I was wondering
if the MBP15 would be able to handle these applications in the emulator programs well enough....


Would it be able to game in the emulated windows?


Big one here:
5. USB 3.0 and other improvements in technology (so i heard) are coming out...to my knowledge the technology of the macbook pro's now will be behind (way behind) in a year or few.
What is the situation on this? Should I wait for the new refresh of macbook pros.


6. I heard the 2 usb ports on the 15 inch were too close to each other so that may sometimes limit you to actually ONE usb device on?

7. Will there be a fall refresh (or a student promotional ) mbp sale in the fall?
( I heard there was one last year?)

8. anything else I should consider in my decision for OSX (mbp) v Windows 7 (laptops) ?
I know there are a lot of questions...and this will be one big investment of a laptop for my family so I wanted to get my facts as accurate as possible.
I have heard that this apple "cult" (haha) here has been very active and helpful and so here I am asking for help to ensure that the Macbook pro is indeed fit to buy.
(I personally want one but I'm not sure if the concerns above may prove to be valid and guide me towards a cheaper, high end pc laptop)

Thank you so much!

 

Power and gaming seem to be large concerns to you which will put you more in line with a PC. If you want to use your Windows software you will need to install Windows on the Mac (via boot camp, virtual box, fusion or parallels). If you don't have a copy it would mean you would need to buy it plus the cost of fusion or parallels if you use them.

 

I state gaming because I would like it still to be an option when I get a mac.

However, if the other points listed above point me largely toward macbook pro's, I'd think that those would outweigh any PC advantages in gaming.

 

no matter the trackpad make or gestures in drivers... no other computer currently has a trackpad as nice as Apple's and how it works in OSX. When using it in Windows its not nearly s good.
how convenient things are or how productive you are depends on you, and what you can use better. OSX works better for some people, but not for everyone.

Gaming... you wont do any gaming on Fusion or Parallels unless its a very old or the game uses very little resources to run. Starcraft 2... this will be a PC/Mac game, so its something you'll run natively without even needing Windows in any way.

For gaming on Macs... its usually best to get a Mac *native* version... if thats not available (or multiplayer is poorly supported along with Windows versions), then your next best bet is a Windows version running in something Wine based... if that doesn't work and its a super low end program, you can try a virtual machine... but the old fall back is to use Bootcamp to set up a dual boot and just boot directly into Windows. Some people just prefer going to Bootcamp first, cuz they don't care about the OS or other software, they just want to easily play the game.

when a OS is more streamlined, and tailored to the hardware more... yes it doesn't need as much horsepower. This doesn't hold true on the Macs as much for gaming. GPUs are made catered to DirectX a lot more than OpenGL... DirectX is a proprietary Microsoft API. Usually a DirectX game in Windows will not be caught by a OpenGL game in OSX.... of course that are exceptions to every rule since programmers aren't perfect.

I wouldn't be surprised... Intel graphics are pure trash.

you should have the power.. with a i5 or i7 with a lot of ram. Only do this for programs you really need to do it for.. find replacement programs that are for the Mac... MS Office for Mac.. or OpenOffice... NeoOffice... iWork... see if you can trade in your Windows Adobe Suite license for the Mac version license (Adobe does do that type of stuff)... for other software, try to find other replacements. Even though you hear "Mac don't have much software" all the time, its really not true. Yes unlike Windows you wont have 500 different word processors to choose from, you may only have like 10 ... but do you really ever need more than 1 or 2?

no... not much if any.
You'd want to look into using Wine... Wineskin, or Crossover Games... for running Windows version games, and if that wont work for your game, dual boot with Windows and boot into Windows to play.

they update at a decent pace, and often before others, its not always laggy like this last refresh that took forever.
They'll have USB 3 as soon as Intel adds it to their chipsets.... blame intel for dragging their feet worse than anyone else.

they are exactly at USB specs for distance. USB devices that are extra wide and out of spec can block a port. You can use a normal extension cable to get around that.... or only buy USB devices that are within USB plug specs. I've never had a problem myself.

they will probably have a student promotional, yes... but its highly unlikely it will be with different laptops... maybe a new Macbook and Macbook Air, but its unlikely the Pros will get changed again this year.

 

Why are you looking at the i7 MBP because of its power? The Envy 14 is more powerful with quad-core configs and an ATI Radeon 5650, which is a good deal stronger than the 330m in the MBP. And the Intel graphics aren't that weak, they are fine for several tasks, including playing 1080p Hi Def video.

A big factor will be OS X vs Windows 7. I suggest you go to an Apple store and play around with OS X. Check out Spaces and the gestures and such and see if OS X is worth the extra $600-1000 versus the Envy 14.

Also, before you think about buying the i7 MBP 15, you should know that it will run hot. On a Cinebench test the CPU hit 100C+! It might be better to look to the i5 version.
Macbook Pro helps Core i7 hit 100 Degrees - News - PC Authority

 

As Steam is now available for mac which makes gaming much more convenient on the OSX.

 

Partially true. The Steam client is now available for Windows/Mac/Linux, but the games still use whatever graphics API they were originally coded with. For Valve games, they have been ported so they will run on Mac; but you should expect that these will be the only "big name" games for a while until others get with the program. You should also expect a fairly large performance decrease because of Apple's lack of "game ready" drivers. See Update: Mac OS X Portal Performance - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News for a performance comparison for Portal.

 

A few things to add..

The Intel graphics are not that bad. You won't see any choppiness or anything like that doing normal business, that's for sure. They are a big upgrade from previous generations although they are still not good enough for gaming. But for any normal use all the way up to watching HD video it will be plenty snappy, and you certainly won't be taxing it minimizing windows and stuff.

Heat is really not a big issue. I don't think the difference between i7 and i5 in heat will be anything you would ever notice. It's true that running benchmarks without upping the fan speed can get you running awfully hot, but in regular use you will never be touching 100C, even when taxing the CPU at full. I have an i7 and I *do* tax it, whether its with Matlab or running a multithreaded chess program in windows. I never get above about 70-75C doing anything I normally do and if I start to get warm I use smcFanControl to turn the fan speed up a bit. It's 75F here today and I'm doing idle Firefox business right now with the CPU hanging out at 36C and the fan at its lowest level (edit: in fairness I'm inside and it's probably 70F or less in here.. but you get the idea). The heat issues, from what I can tell, are comparable or better than previous generation MBPs and I wouldn't expect the i7 vs the i5 to differ in that regard.

One place I do expect the i7 and i5 to differ is in battery life. You will probably get around an extra half hour out of the i5, and it's unlikely you'll ever notice the difference in power, although you will end up with a slightly downgraded graphics card doing that. Your choice, but either processor will crush a core 2 duo.

I'm sure it will run Starcraft extremely well. I've seen my friend running the beta on his 2008 unibody and it looks great. I wouldn't worry about that. You won't be playing Crysis but besides that you'll have the horses to run any modern game.

Lack of USB 3.0 might be a bummer but any computer will show its age in 1-3 years. You can always wait and get something better, but for a new MBP you'll probably be waiting awhile. It's true that the ports are too close together .. for example a Kingston flash drive is ok, but the Sandisk Cruzers are wider and you'll struggle to use the other port with one of those plugged in.

In the end, play with one and see if you like it. I love my 15" i7 with the hi-res antiglare screen (don't pass on that option!), but your mileage may vary. It's sleek, runs super smooth, delivers 5-6 hours of battery life in normal operation, and I love the Apple trackpad. No multitouch PC trackpad comes close to what Apple has on that front, I promise. I am also a big fan of spaces and expose. I have a W7 desktop with two screens and find it's easier to manage a heavy multitasking workload on my MBP. I wouldn't trade it for any other notebook on the market today. But it ain't cheap.

 

^ I disagree. with Intel HD, you can see the minimization not as smooth as if you enable 330m (or compare it to the last model's 9400M integrated or the current 13" 320m). Also, run that gfxstatus app and force it into Intel HD, and watch any video full screen, tell me it doesn't look extremely pixelated.

Intel HD is fail imho. Even for simple purposes (and not gaming).

 

Thanks for the replies thus far.

So are there anyconveniences when using a mac (like usb port problem...etc) and if so what are the solutions?

Like is there a workaround for the USB close hubs?

SO. One last big thing which is HUGELY going to impact my decision is the RESALE price.

I have heard that macbook pro's hold their value extremely well...and so I was wondering (since I have over 300 dollars from normal price discounts) if I would say be able to sell it for around 250 dollars less than store price in about a year (or 1.5 years...whenever the next generation comes out).

FOR EXAMPLE.
Buy May 2010. Macbook pro 15 inch i7
MY PRICE: about 1900.
Normal Price: 2199.

Sell in June 2011 (when next generation technology comes out)
SELL FOR: 1900?

Is that realistic at all?
* I am not currently an ebay powerseller so I do not know how I will be able to effectively sell a macbook pro anyhow....(the forum section here a good place?)

Thanks so much for the help so far!

 

Well, I just disagree about the graphics. I don't know what you're seeing as far as choppy minimization with the intel graphics but you must have a lot better vision than I do.

As far as selling it for the same price you're paying for it when the next generation comes out.. I'd say there's zero chance of that!

 

try enabling 330m (in display of system preferences I think) and move the mouse around the dock with magnification enabled, then minimize/maximize a window (assuming you have genie effect enabled).

Tell me Intel HD is anywhere near as smooth as 330m. Not the case for me or the floor models.

 

indeed. expect a 25%-30% hit. though that's probably 20%-30% more than you'd get for a similar PC from any manufacturer after a year. but still a hit. and depending on how big the jump is from this year to next (personally, I'm not expecting as much as most), it could be an even bigger loss across the board.

as always, buy it if you need it.

 

I still don't understand people who buy computers and try to sell them the minute a minor upgrade (and trust me, the next one will be minor) is round the corner.

You won't see Blu-Ray, there's no significant processor upgrade to be made to the 15", best case scenario we get more capable graphics cards.

 

pretty much.

 

too vague to know... you'd need to look at the specifics.. what software is being used.. what file formats... etc...

 

Hm...

I'm still just getting stuck on the hardware downgrade of the Mac...
like you wont be getting usb 3.0 or enough usb ports, aged out graphics card ...

whereas the envy is upgraded.

OF COURSE, the main battle is the OS .

I've seen OS X run and played with it a little (not extensively) and of course, I am a windows 7 ultimate user so I know about that (I'm relatively techy with it so I haven't had any big problems)...

Can anyone comment on their experiences (who have used both) so that they can compare?

Software limitedbility on OSX (like no reputable alternative media player other than itunes?) + the risk of a change of OS (for problems that I may only find down the road + any potential unknown bad things about a MBP are the big questions that hinder me from jumping on either laptop.

 

There are alternatives to iTunes but it all depends on if you want to sync to an iPod or iPhone. There's songbird but it doesn't work with all iPods. I'm sure there are others as well, I just didn't want to go digging to much to find them.

If you are really hung up on specs a Mac may not be the right choice for you. If you're happy with Windows 7, Mac may also not be the best choice. I guess it would be helpful to know the following: how many USB devices do you need to hook up at a time? Does the Envy come with USB 3.0 even though it isn't supported by Intel? how often do you actually use the full power of your system? How often do you go deep into Windows 7 to tweak things and what are you tweaking? Is your computer used for work and what software would you need to run on it?

Its better to consider what you are really doing with your computer rather than what you could do if you really wanted to.

 

I use both everyday.

I have a Desktop running Windows 7 and I have a Macbook Pro running Snow Leopard.

I don't really prefer one over the other, but I'll tell you now ... You will not regret buying a MBP.

I don't know what "potential unknown bad things" you're referring to but I haven't experienced any hiccups with mine, the thing runs just as I would want it.

There are times the 5400 rpm shows its age (I'll be changing it soon) but that's been remedied with repairing permissions and routine disk maintenance.

Lastly is the subject of software ... That's your own problem really, it depends what SW you need to run. As for me, I've never had a problem with iTunes. Only other essentials I need are Photoshop and Photomatix ... Both of which are on OS X.

 

I'm sure a lot of people impulse buy a lot more than they can honestly afford so some trades are out of necessity to make rent. Sure you can buy a 15" MBP for ~2k OTD and sell it in a yr for $1,400 if there aren't any major upgrades. If there are, your model will depreciate significantly more. Given the common 12mon/0% interest offers out there, I wonder how many people are actually upside down on the MBP's they're swapping out so often. For people w/ junky credit, I wonder how many are paying a multiple of the actual cost in CC finance charges.

If you do buy it cash, you do get back $1,400 but time/value of money means your cash was locked up doing nothing for the yr w/ the risk that you'll step on it and lose your investment. If you put $1k into a roughly spec-wise equivalent non-Apple computer, invest the 1k extra, and then sell the computer at the end of the year you probably end up ahead despite Apple's losing less value as a %. It's all moot if you never had the 2k to begin w/ and are financing it on a 20% CC that your parents will inevitably have to pay off when you default.

All computers are terrible investments unless you manage to get one far below the market price for a new one. Shopping based on depreciation is a bit stupid given the big up front cost. It's like saying a Ferrari is the best car to buy b/c as a % it loses the least value. Given the most powerful MBP will be grossly outdated in 3 yrs compared to the sub 1k laptops 3yrs from now, it doesn't make a ton of sense to lock up thousands into a machine that's out of warranty in 12 months.

Personally, I've noticed a bit of an inverse relationship between income and the need to upgrade MBP's...the barista at my local sbx or some undergrads always have the latest greatest MBP's while a lot of people that can easily afford them simply don't bother. My sister-in-law who does very well for herself goes through gadgets like no tomorrow...iPod's 1G-Nanos, BB's, Droid, etc. She won't touch a MBP even though I recommended one for her and she wound up w/ an equally expensive XPS1330 that she still loves. She has a watch collection that costs more than a small fleet of MBP's. In contrast, the week the first 13" unibody hit, I saw a guy at my school's B&N working on his resume w/a stack of career books he was too cheap to buy. In my MBA class, the people w/ jobs tend to use whatever computer their company provides while those living off student loans seem to direct a fair amt of their future income to a financed MBP. Even my g/f's close friend who was unemployed almost a year had a shiny new MBP to play w/ her new photography kick long before she got a new job. Maybe when people are playing w/ credit it doesn't seem like real money anymore.

 

an interesting analysis.

I've never bought a computer on credit. they're so relatively inexpensive, I'm surprised most people don't just save up for what they want.

right now, I'm playing with ~$2600 of refunded Sony laptop money, so for me it's essentially an already-paid-for upgrade.

anyway, looks like I'm going to jump in on this MBP today. I've now finally seen the Envy's specs, figured out the cost differential, pros and cons of each..rated each important factor...and the MBP came out a smidgen ahead. all things considered, it's time to give something different a try.

If the Envy had come out 2 months ago, I might have already been out of the market an in a new HP. sometimes timing is everything.

 

It will never happen.

My $2300 glossy 15" uMBP rev2 2.66/4/500 is tenatively sold for $1250.
I bought a $2600 15" uMBP rev2 2.8/4/500 for $1400.

The first one was bought in Sept 09 and the second Jan 2010.

All prices CDN.

(mind you my M17x was way worse - it was a $3600 machine and the best offer here and locally was $1500)

 

I see so I will be getting a big hit....

I'm really thinking about buying BOTH an Envy 14 and a i7 MBP at the same time (if I am able to return them both) and playing around with both simultaneously ...
as my laptop now is 2 years old and doens't have multitouch and is old tech.

If I AM able to have both to play and test for a week...what should I try out ?
(things I should really test that may come unnoticed until prolonged use).

 

IMO for notebooks in this class:
1. heat (you will be surprised how much this changes how you use the notebook)
2. battery life
3. portability (including the charger)

 

I see.

Thanks Lewdvig I'll take those into consideration.


It's still under my impression that a Mac is very limited in software. Like I search online for help with software and drivers and most of the time, its all for windows.
If its a program, its probably running on windows (and if you're lucky also on Mac OSX)...
Is this a REAL problem? I'm sure none of us want to be stuck with a OS X market that is SECONDARY to the main windows software market and that we will be second priority and lagging behind in software, software report and such...

 

I wouldn't say the OS X platform is very limited in software.

Every kind of windows software there is out there has an equivalent for OS X. There's also a huge amount of crappy apps for windows.

I saw you were talking about a media player a couple of pages ago. Windows Media Player is THE worst media player I've ever had to deal with.

A lot of people bash iTunes but they bash it because it does indeed run like crap on windows. On OS X, it's a whole different story.

Also, Plex is a very good Media Center app.

Just buy the Mac. You won't regret it. Just don't expect it to be a windows machine, because it isn't. It's a whole different beast.

 

The reason you find so many hits for Windows when searching online is that windows is about 90% of the operating system market. Obviously there will be more discussions about Windows than OS X. What software are you looking for specifically?

 

For myself, I just like the idea of being able to find support for various programs.
For example, my friend and I do much powerpoint editing and we use Powerplugs and are very accustomed to many small programs like that which I couldn't find for the mac...

1. How FREE is the world between the Mac OS X and the Emulated Windows? If they have VERY LITTLE barriers , like you can transfer files between and access them easily then the software and such may be less ofa problem...

like can i install a printer driver on the emulated windows and pritn with that?

2. I just cannot get the big differnece now between windows 7 and OS X. Both are great now and OS X has been known to be great. However both OS's operate very well and I don't know what factors (which was why I was very concerned with the conveniences and little things on a mac that will make it MUCH more pleasurable to use) will differentiate the two.

Like for the touchpad 4 finger expose, is there an equivalent (good equivalent, not switcher) for windows and such? It may be a small thing but these can go a long way in daily computer college use.

 

You are aware that you can run Windows on a Mac right? Because you're really beating this dead horse topic about software.

In the end it's only you who knows what's best for you. Everything that can be said has been said, go make a decision.

 

I stand by my original statement. Get a PC and be done with it.

 

I was very interested in the Envy 14 but ...
after doing some research such as on..
How Intel and AMD will make 2011 the year of the laptop

it seems like I SHOULD wait.

NOW, for the meantime, the reason I'm considering a MBP again is because:

1) It is good laptop that I can use for college this fall...and to buffer the wait time.

2) I have over 400 dollars in discounts from a special scholarship and the educational price (200 dollars each) off the macbook pro (compared to normal prices).
IN ADDITION, there is the ipod touch offer now...
so...
2350 mbp (i7 + antiglare), turns into 1950 + an ipod touch (which I can presumably sell for 150?)

So the FINAL cost for me may be 1800 for a 2350 laptop. (24% cheaper)

In that case, do you think I would be able to sell it for around 1800 in say...september 2011 ?

Thanks.
You guys have been very knowledgable and helpful so far!

 

$1400-$1500, Imo.

 

would not buy ANY laptop other than a Macbook Pro after owning one...solid machine.