MacOS X

it seems cool how the minor updates work...you have everything under a single package and it brings security/stability/compatibility to many features, right?

under Windows, the updates through 'windows update' don't bring anything really useful to the system

 

I switched from an fully IBM office exactly 2 years ago. We bought a G5 server and 11 workstations.
The first thing I noticed is that one machine arrived dead and 3 others went down in the first 3 months.
I called Apple about the dead machine and they said it was up to the dealer to replace it--they wouldn't take responsiblitiy. We are running a proprietary medical software so that machine could not be put on the network until a replacement arrived and I have to call out the software guys (at my expense) to set it up---a few hundred extra dollars for that!

When the other 3 machines went (2 were ethernet boards and the other was just a keyboard problem) it took about 2 -3 hr each on the phone with Apple as they made me jump through hoops diagnosing things and then I almost had to threaten legal action on one occasion to get them to honour the 'on-site' portion of the warranty I paid for.
Believe it or not, I have to wait 10 days each time for Etherent boards to arrive---in the meantime my iMacs sat there useless.

When I had IBM, I would call and a service person would be on-site within 4 hrs and he would have a part couriered, usually within 30 minutes.

Ours server crashes about every 3 wks....thankfully at night so I just have to spend 20 mintues the next morning getting it up and running again.

I had to buy new two-button mice for all the machines.

As for OSX, it's fine but I don't see that it's so much better than XP. When I go into the dock to check my display setting (we had terrible problems at first because the machines would always boot on the lowest brightess and we couldn't find the mouse curser to change it---until we downloaded a patch---and that's another story because Apple absolutely denied they knew anything about this problem until I found it on several Apple-related sites and found the right patch) it automatically changes the resolution to 800x200 without any input from me. So I have to go back and change it anytime I open up the dock.

I must admit, I've never used such a flaky operating system.

Physically, I love the form factor...my patients things my office is so 'high-tech' because of the beautiful machines.
I always laugh and tell my patients 'if only they worked 1/2 as well as they look'.

My son, who is starting graduate work in physics needs to buy a Mac because, apparently, all the theoretical physicists are using Macs because they are Unix-based OS. So I guess my entire family will soon, unhappily, be all Macs.

I guess I'll just have to make my peace with it all. But when people rant about how bad IBM is, I just grin and wish Apple could learn a lesson about service from them!

 

I can verify the HP thing. I recently bought a new HP all in one with photo, my PC has booted up slower and run slower ever since.

 

Heck of a story fred.

Yeah, I think g4/g5's were terrible. Complete rubbish they were. We had (maybe still have some left) at our univ, and a lot of them randomly crash and have other hardware issues.

 

I can't help but see the irony here. The PowerPC architecture was developed by, guess who? IBM (along with Apple and Motorola). Beyond that, IBM still uses PowerPC chips in a LOT of their applications, including the Xbox 360, Wii, PS3, blade servers, and clusters. You must have been using the x-series servers.

However, I have to say that I have heard a lot of good things about Apple's service on this site. Maybe it was because you had an outside retailer?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'an outside retailer'. I bought from the University Computer Shop using an educational/faculty card.
I would not have thought that that would have disqualified me for proper service.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell my story. I've made my peace with what I have. I just live with the occasional shutdowns, spinning beachballs and flaky hardware.

I have tried to find something positive in all this and may try out a macbook sometime soon.

 

fredf, your experience was definitely bad but also unique. The faulty hardware could be a result of how it was treated by the University. Keep in mind that Apple was using IBM hardware at that time

But honestly, your experience was an exception to the rule. For every one bad experience I hear with Apple I could easily find another 1,000 examples from another company. Look at my experience with HP. I've had to threaten legal action, file multiple BBB complaints, etc. and they still are dragging their feet with my lemon dv5030us. I even had to tell the case manager at HP that HP already had my computer and he still didn't believe me until he looked it up for himself! It's amazing, really.

I wouldn't put too much on IBM's support any more either, considering they sold their consumer division off to a 3rd rate Chinese company.

 

You mentioned that Apple said you need to contact your retailer in your original post, so this is what I was referring to. It is still no excuse for bad support, but like I said, I've heard mostly good reports about Apple support. Sounds like you just had issues. Sorry to hear it, but it happens to every company.

 

I Love mac os x and i will never go back to windows

 

has anyone here used macosx through its evolution (10.4,10.3, 10,2,etc.)?

one thing that attracts me is that macosx seems to evolve at a good speed...their are releases often that add new features to something that is already revolutionary in some areas (vs Windows...6 years since XP to release Vista)

am I wrong?

 

Some people I know have. They say it's always been a nice improvement (and not expensive to upgrade).

I'm working on getting the beta of 10.5 this week, and I'll let you guys know how it is. So far my friend says it's incredibly stable and very fast.

 

thank you hollownail

before the next windows release there will be at least leopard release+another macosx release so it gives me the impression that macosx could lead in a lot of areas

 

OS X is already well ahead of Windows Vista is sort of like OS 10.2 with a couple of features stolen from 10.3 and Tiger and thrown in as an after-thought (the "Sidebar" comes to mind, as well as "Flip3D" which is just plain stupid).

 

To be fair, Windows and OS X actually have the same amount of time between releases traditionally. Vista was just extremely delayed. Vista's follow up should arrive around late 2009 which would coincide with the 1.5-2 year release cycle OS X has had.

 

cashmonee: it's true but it's not impossible that the next windows release could also be delayed....and if it's not delayed at all, there is a possibility that there won't be any major new features

 

That is true. But we have already seen Leopard delayed once as well. All I am saying is that the intended release cycle for both OS X and Windows is the same; about 2 years.

 

hollownail: when you try 10.5, please let me know what you think about "Time Machine"

 

After checking out Mac OS X in the store for a while compared to my Vista laptop, Vista seems much more modern and easy to use. I feel like I'd be much less productive. Just a general observation. The design is BEAUTIFUL though..I love it (the MacBooks).

 

I'm happy with my Ubuntu's 6 month release cycle. It gives plenty of time to add new features and upgrades, but at the same time, is consistent and provides you with all the latest possible drivers and application/utility updates.

 

I already try it for 2 minutes (will try it soon for a longer period) and at first I consider that I'm less productive with it like you....but I won't forget when I do my choice that Windows is the first OS I used and that I have used it 99,9% of the time so it's just natural and normal that it seems easier for us. It would be almost impossible to find someone who used Windows for a lot of years saying that macosx is more productive in the first minutes/hours

That's why I'm trying to learn about potential productivity of MacOSX for me because It doesn't matter for me to learn an entire new os if I consider it would bring me some advantages...

 

As far as I've seen, the largest benefits of OS X seem to occur if you live in a closed Apple system. Apple applications seem to like to manage things for you, and handle your data and metadata and give you a shiny frontend. Applications are ever aware of the contents of your home directory, your pictures, documents, video files, calendar...

Then they do interoperability stuff, so you wind up with cool ways of fiddling with information and files and things... Quicksilver is the definitive Mac app. It launches and controls everything. (In fact, I just used it to send my brother out for pizza by typing "Brother-tab-MakeNew-tab-HungerPizza". True story.) Yojimbo is a good example of Macism too... the way it provides this means of archiving / indexing / searching / tagging your notes and web pages and things...

All this isn't the greatest thing for me, since all that metadata relationshippey stuff doesn't always integrate Windows/Linux very well. I always start to feel a little uneasy when things get more abstracted too -- I prefer being closer to the metal than further. Even so, I still get a little wistful when working on my macbook. It's such a bundle of interesting applications and functions... (Usually this feeling is soon crushed by something irritating. I'm lucky that way. Heheh.)

I don't see higher productivity... actually I have more than the usual problems with the platform. The Finder is atrocious. Part of what I like about it is what I hate. (For instance, the assumption that iTunes should add every music file I play to my "library" seems stupid. I don't always want an app to search my home directory and shove all the crap I've got piled up there in my face, either...) It is a lot more fun to minimize windows though.

 

l33t_c0w: thanks for the information...how long have you been using MacOSX?

 

I was a beta tester for Windows Vista and have the final version of Vista. I've had my MacBook for a month and a half now.

Using Windows Vista (or XP) after OS X is like going back in time. XP is like going back in time to the Windows 95 days and Vista is sort of like when XP came out but not the big jump that XP was. Vista is what XP SP3 should have been, really.

Theres tons of little things I already listed in my other post that make Windows far less efficient to use than OS X. For example, I've been spending some time in Windows lately. I've had a lot of windows open and it's a complete hassle having to switch between windows. In OS X I just swipe my mouse to the bottom left corner (the corner I have setup as a hot corner for Expose) and all of my windows come up and I can click what I want.

Spending 2 minutes with OS X in CompUSA with a computer that has been obviously screwed with by the people who play with it is not a clear demonstration of what the OS is capable of.

And as I said before, the whole "learning" the OS is overblown. It takes a whole 2 days to learn the ins and outs and once you do "learn" it you'll wonder why you stuck with Windows for so long.

Learning OS X is easier than learning how to ride a bike.

 

^ agreed. I have been a Windows user (and Mac hater) for the last 11 years, made the switch in March (and then switched back in April, but thats cause I installed XP through Boot Camp). I like the Mac OS very much, even more so than XP to be honest; the only reason I still run XP is that most of my software is for Windows, and I do not want to pay for the Mac versions where they exist (like MS office).

It took me less than 2 days to learn how to use the OS, with the keyboard shortcuts. Granted, I was using a desktop, so I didn't need to learn how to use that annoying 1 button touchpad.

 

Since January or so... around three months.

 

Yeah, that's definitely enough time to test and check it out to see if you like it.

 

Spending a few minutes in a store is not going to give any real idea of what it is like. You should try spending as much time as possible and keep going back, that will give a little better idea.

As for productivity, I find myself much more productive, so much so that I actually get bored sometimes. I don't have to spend time tinkering like I did in Windows, I can actually do work! That is only my experience, others can't make the switch.

 

Yeah, you're right. I'm thinking about getting an old Mac with OS X Tiger on it to just try it out...

 

Heheheh. That's a funny comparison. I don't know about you, but learning to ride a bike as a kid for me was tough. Then I was pretty young... and I've never been that coordinated...

Regarding Windows... how's the taskbar work out for you? I tend to alt-tab or just click (taskbar or window itself) when I want to change the window that has focus. It's not as cool as Expose, but it's just as effective. (It occurs to me that it could be less effective in a low-resolution environment.)

Could you give any examples of the tinkering? I can't think of anything that fits the bill, so I'm curious.

 

I have also heard some people talking about a system easier to maintain

What does it mean? How does it compare to Windows? (which require for example defrag,scandisk,temp files and registry cleaning,antispyware,antivirus, etc) Are there tools that ease some tasks?

thanks

 

None of those utilities you mention are needed in OS X. There is no registry, defragging is done on the fly, and of course there are no viruses or spyware at the moment. I also find that things usually work easier. Take synergy for example, my virtual keyboard mouse switch. It was a breeze to setup on the Mac, but a real pain on Windows. Little things like that.

 

it's cool...I must admit that all these tasks can take a lot of time on Windows...how many times I have helped people cleaning the junk and viruses on their computer, defragmenting,etc. and sometimes it took me many hours of hard work

 

None of that stuff's really needed inside Windows either, besides the defragging. I thought Synergy was easier in Windows... It hasn't got a GUI that I know of in OS X. Graphical stuff is more intuitive, if not less effort for an experienced user.

 

What? You need all of that stuff in Windows. Not having anti-virus and anti-spyware software installed in Windows is insanity, even while using Firefox. Windows is just too insecure and unstable and too many things can be run without the users knowledge.

You definitely need to clean the registry too. Do you realize how bloated and messed up it can get just under regular use? Even simple things like creating files or shortcuts on your desktop can make new registry entries. Most software uninstallers do NOT properly delete their registry entries even if they say they are. The registry can get all kinds of bloated and messed up and cause stability and speed issues in Windows. It's easy to say that the registry is one of the major causes of problems in Windows.

I've used Onyx twice so far in OSX to clean up and optimize the system (a simple one click step under "automation") and it's helped keep my boot times around 24 seconds.

 

The only times I've seen Windows slow and useless were with all those tools installed. I run without them, and things work great. I'm nearly certain registry cleaners are a case of "take something that works, and ask it to break" -- who cares if it's a mess. It's not your living room, that it should be kept "tidy".

There's too much Windows FUD. I haven't had my Windows laptop crash on me that I can rememebr since I got the thing some 8 months ago. Say it's crashed twice and I don't remember -- I've had way more problems on my Macbook anyways. Checked your OS X updates lately? Security problems don't exist on the Mac platform too? *cough*

I'm not saying OS X doesn't have a lot going for it, or even that it isn't better than Windows for most people. I'm just frustrated by the nonsense that is regurgitated by every Mac fan I bump into.

 

I've been using Windows since the Windows 3.0 days. The only time I've seen Windows able to survive and not require a complete reinstall every 4 weeks was with those tools installed.

You're fooling yourself if you believe you have no spyware or viruses on your Windows system right now and you aren't running security software.

You haven't been using Windows for very long, have you? Windows gets incredibly slow and unstable if the registry gets bloated with lots of entries that lead nowhere or are obsolete.

I've had Windows crash on me more times than I have hairs on my head! And I haven't used it for anything more than light gaming, music listening, and digital photo editing. I've had Windows crash by just connecting USB devices. I could probably write a 1,000 page book of normal things I've done with my Mac that made Windows crash.

Such as?

When was the last time OS X had a virus? When was the last time OS X could get infected by simply connecting to the internet without a firewall, like pre-SP2 XP can? When was the last time OS X ran unsigned code and installed software without the user knowing like XP and Vista have a habit of doing? Exactly

What nonsense? It's a fact that you need AV and anti-spyware software on Windows. It's a fact that Windows pre-SP2 XP can get infected with a virus simply by connecting to the internet without a firewall. It's a fact that the registry will get bloated and bring the system down. It's a fact that you have to defrag and run scandisk to make sure your file system isn't corrupted. I know this because I used Windows for more than a decade before making the switch to OS X two months ago.

 

Oh come on..what an exaggeration.

 

Not untrue at all. Unless you'll settle for an unstable and slow OS. But I see you're running Vista Home Premium, so I guess you do

 

there's no exaggeration about the fact that antivirus/spyware(especially) are really a MUST...you can ignore the problem for a few weeks/months depending on your internet usage but after that you face a lot of problems, I've often repaired windows computers that were partially/completely unusable because of viruses/spyware

 

http://software.landryhetu.com/synergy/

That is the GUI for Synergy on OS X. And I am not saying it was hard to install on Windows, but it was easier on OS X, and it is easier to use on OS X as opposed to Windows.

As for the other comments. You can run a Windows box safely without antivirus/antispyware if you know what you are doing. And I would agree that registry cleaners often do more harm than good. However, Windows does definitely suffer from bit rot. A regularly used Windows box will slow down with time and a fresh install will fix that. OS X does not slow down with time in my experience so far.

But I do agree there is too much Windows FUD out there, just as there is too much OS X FUD. The fact is both are great OS's that do their intended job well. Some people just love turning these things into religious wars. Maybe one day they will realize it is just software.

 

cashmonee: I agree with you on the fact that both OS have their own qualities because they are both leaders in specific areas...it's useless to say OS1 is great and OS2 is pure ****

for the viruses, I would agree that it's ( in theory) possible to stay away from viruses by controlling each and every file we download/install but for the spyware, it's just everywhere and sometimes you just can't escape it. Nobody with a 3 year old Windows installation (for example) who goes frequently on the internet to navigate, chat, use P2P,etc. could affirm with certainty that its computer is spyware-free without a scan

 

*Long post warning*

So, I think I'm probably the best person to help you. I just got my MacBook Pro this past Monday after returning my HP dv9000t. I paid more for my MBP ($1750 compared to $1250, but it's worth every penny), so let me walk you through my experience for this past week.

Essentially, I bought a Mac because I was fed up with Windows Vista. I don't need to rant about why I didn't like it in the end, there are plenty of websites that will do that just fine. But, OSX... boy. It's like traveling into the future (seriously). Everything just WORKS. I'm not afraid to close the lid on my laptop to put it to sleep and carry it around in my backpack (a no, no on a Windows laptop).

So why is a Mac better? Here are a few things I've noticed so far:

1) Tight integration between hardware and software. Software utilities like Bluetooth and AirPort wireless work like no other. Also, I get advanced info about my battery too (how many charge cycles it has). And the nice thing is that all this information is availble at a system-wide level for any program to use. Very nice.

2) Expose. The ability to find the exact window I want from 20 windows in painstakingly easy with Expose. I consider Flip3D a bandaid to the solution because it requires a lot of effort in scrolling through windows.

3) Spotlight: Extremely fast search functionality. Vista may have it, but it still felt sluggish to me after the entire drive was indexed on my old laptop. Plus, it conveniently organizes searched data into groups for your ease.

4) Battery life: Amazing battery life, especially for the power I have in my MacBook Pro. 4 hours is no sweat.

5) Security: Yet to get a virus (ok, that was a cheap shot, but still valid)

6) Terminal: For true computer geeks, the ability to run any program from commandline is divine, especially because it opens up a whole new avenue of remotely controlling your computer. Plus, sometimes a GUI is just plain slow!

7) Automator: Want to automatically copy files from one location to another with a click of a button? Automator can do that.

8) Dashboard: Terrific feature that gives you quick info about your system and stuff on the web. Vista's Sidebar sadly doesn't compete because you need to be loking at the desktop to see it. It also has limited space.

Now maybe I'm a bit biased because I've turned into a Mac fanboy and this is turned into free publicity for them, but I just wanted to let you know that I think Windows is rather backwards sometimes. I got the free 15-day trial for Parallels and didn't even use it after the 2nd day, there;s a lot of cool Mac software that filled all my needs.

 

Am Not!

Have too!

Is not!
Stupidface! *runs away*

I'm pretty careful, and I'm pretty confident that nothing bad is going on inside my PC. I've only had XP on there about a year since the last time I swapped hard drives or decided to have a different partition structure or something... but it runs great. (Here's to the next two )

It's true that on OS X you don't have to be as careful. You still should be. The platform isn't immune to problems, it's just architecturally better (at least it was. I don't know enough to say it is now, with Vista's "improved security" (blech.)). And part of the reason we've seen fewer exploits has to be that the money isn't there the same way it is for the crowd of Windows users.

I'll try to shut up about Windows now (even if I strongly disagree with something). It's a Mac forum after all.

 

You ever gone to a webiste with a JPEG l33t? Guess what, you have a virus. You cannot stop virus's in Windows without running anti-viral and anti-spyware software.
Ever connected to a network? You have viruses and worms.
When I had my windows notebook on campus, I would constantly get notifications from symantic that there were worms and viruses propagating on the network and trying to install on my computer. That was just form being on a wireless network.
Yeah, start installing software on windows. you're system will slow down. The registry does make a big difference. To say otherwise is pure ignorance. I'm not saying registry cleaners are good, I'm just saying that if you install a lot of software, you're system will go slower. And you can never really uninstall software.
Have you ever tried to uninstall Oracle? It takes FOREVER to clean out the registry.

It is so sad to see people that are running XP without security measures. They're the ones giving footholds to all the damn bots out there.

Every system has security holes and some problems here and there. But the design and architecture of *nix handles those so much better than windows. Even unix and linux have those holes.

 

You're painting a caricature of reality. Let's stay on topic.

This is my last post in this thread. Hopefully it's not too charred.

 

I finally tried a bit MacOSX today....I would'nt have any problem to learn it quickly

my only disappointment is that I thought the programs/folders would open in less time (I tried laptops with 1 GB of ram and even 2 GB)

 

If it's a new computer you tried, files could still be indexed by Spotlight. Other than that, I'm not really sure what could have caused that.

 

Funny, I noticed the same when checking out a MacBook. Design is amazing, but opening stuff up like Dashboard is slow..

 

Thats because OS X doesn't load all of your Dashboard widgets during boot. So the first time you open Dashboard is when OS X loads the widgets. After that it is instant. Waiting 5 seconds for Dashboard to "open" the first time is worth it to have the average 25 second boot time OS X does, compared to the minutes that Windows can take to boot on some systems. XP MCE 2005 took a full 2.5 minutes to boot on my dv5030us with no viruses or spyware and a clean install. And unlike Windows, sleep mode in OS X actually works. You can use sleep mode in OS X and not have to worry about rebooting afterwards because Windows can't access your network any more. And sleep mode on a Mac doesn't eat through your battery either. So the 5 second wait with Dashboard is something you'll rarely experience.

Browsing folders and opening software takes no more time than it does in Windows. For example, Firefox is as fast as a snail to open the first time after a fresh boot on both OSes. But Safari opens as fast as IE7 does.

Windows boots faster in Parallels than it does on dedicated Windows systems

 

Dashboard was not the problem (because it was already loaded)

I don't think it was spotlight because the laptops were not brand new and they stay open all days long so the indexing should be finished

the slowness problem was not necessarily with apps (I can understand that some big apps may take a few seconds to start) but for example with the "hark disk" icon on the desktop

even at the second or third opening, nothing has really changed...to give you a comparison, in Windows double-clicking on C:\ opens it quickly on my laptop with 512 of RAM and almost instantly on the second click

I don't know if it was normal or it is suppose to open almost instantly but it's deceiving if I consider that my laptop has a cheap single-processor sempron + 512 of RAM vs the macbook which had 1GB of RAM and a recent Intel CD2 processor