Mac vs. PC

What "better" about Macs? Why are they supposed to be better than PCs? I personally like PCs so much better. I've tried using Macs, but they are so confusing, IMO. What do Macs have that Windows doesn't? I think the whole thing about Macs being more secure and all that is a bunch of BS. PCs can run just as secure. PC illeterates just don't know how to get adequate protection. Windows has so many more features, IMO. They are just as good, if not BETTER than Macs. What do you guys think? Please let me know.

 

Macs have better designed outlook. OS X is much secure than PC if you are using XP. But it is about the same security level to Linux.

The risk of using OS X is about the same to XP in term of security hole. It is not opened source code, totally rely on Apple testing(same thing with XP). Since not too much fanboy really know OS X well, currently it is secure. But who knows what will happen later on.

I think OS X installation is as friendly as XP, but Linux does not especially driver.

Macs are secure just because they were using PowerPC arch, and nobody really like to hack it with such small user base. Now, Mac shifts their platform to Intel, hackers will get much interest on it.

 

Macs were more secure... but OS X still remains more secure over XP. I'm sure if 97% of the world used OS X and the rest used XP then everyone would say OS X sucked and XP was great. I for one can't stand using OS X... most likely because I'm so used to Windows.

 

A note to future posters - keep it civil in here, and appropriate. These types of threads have a tendancy to get a bit rowdy. The posts up there ^ are fine.

Thanks,
Chaz

 

I'm not a Mac user but here's what I know. As far as Mac's being more secure, there are only a handful of viruses for them, while for Windows there's thousands, probably even millions, of viruses and spyware. To keep from getting infected you'd need good spyware removal programs (update regularly), and at least one good virus protection program (also update regularly). I need to run scans every day after getting on the internet to keep spyware off my PC, b/c something gets on it everyday. On a Mac you'd probably rarely get spyware or even a virus on it. Mac's crash much less, if at all. I know someone that has a Mac that hasn't shut it down in 6 months, I can do this w/ my windows computer by putting it in hibernation, but I'd have to restart it at least once a week or I'd get really slow and might crash. Mac's are better for multimedia applications, for example video editing. It's true, if you have been a windows user for a long time you will find the Mac interface to be confusing, I haven't had much experience w/ OS X so I find it confusing, but I'm willing to learn when I get a Mac. It's kinda a matter of opinion whether you think Mac is better than Windows, IMO Mac is better than Windows, this coming from a Windows user that has had only limited amount of time using a Mac. This is all just my opinion.

 

i believe that macs are more secure purely because dorky losers who program viruses want to send it to as many computers as possible. since the majority uses xp, the viruses are designed to attack windows systems, and they don't bother trying to program it for osx. sure pcs are more secure with all the av protection, but you don't even need to install that on a mac in order for it to be secure, and that is difference. also, i hear for people who do video and graphics editing, some of the mac only software are very good with no equivalent on pcs.

 

Besides being more secured, what else does Macs have advantage over XP? Because I definitely prefer XP over OS X since I don't have any probably with virus.

 

Well this is both a pro and con for Windows (and obviously applies to macs inversely). Microsoft works to make all new OS's backwards compatible so you can run dated software on your new OS. While this is convenient, it makes Windows much more bulky to code, because it can't streamline its code as easily, making it a less stable system. So while I think it is a noble endeavor of microsoft, as more time passes it is becoming less and less feasible.

 

Has anyone else ever used Final Cut Pro? I had a class in high school, and I practically fell in love with this program. I was all ready to pay the money to buy it for my home PC... but I figured out that it was for macs only. This program alone would make me buy a Mac (If I had the money ). I have tried Adobe Premiere, and its not even close.

 

Adobe Premiere and Vegas Video are both great programs.

 

I cant believe someone even started this thread. Neither is better. Its all about preference. but have things the other doesnt.

 

well, I used PCs for my whole life untill about 2 years ago and I was looking on eBay and I saw a powermac G3 for like $60 with OS X, I bought it to just fool around with and try out OS X. I am quite computer literate I would say, I've built my own computers and I've done a lot of stuff with them, but honestly, it gets annoying have to do all the BS you have to do with windows sometimes, with OS X it just plain works.
Sorry to sound like an apple ad but its true, you click on the wireless icon, select the network you want and boom its done. That simple. go to preferences and then printers, enter the IP address if your networked printer and boom, its done. But the biggest thing is iLife. iTunes, iMovie HD, iPhoto, iDVD, and garage band are amazing, its all you need for basically everything. Once you get Photoshop, roxio and Final Cut Pro you've got everything you could ever want. Plus it just looks so much better and once you figure out how to use the OS X desktop, its so much more efficient than the XP, espically for multitasking.

And talk about security, I've never once had an issue with OS X, and I constantly get slow downs in XP, and you need virus software and stuff to keep it away. You always get windows pop-ups saying to update and you have no virus protection and stuff, that dosent happen with OS X, its just all in perfect harmony. Once you use it you love it... really try it and then decide.

 

Kingcrowing is right. Pretty much everything is just a little easier. For instance, I got my bluetooth mouse to work on my MBP in about a minute. It took alot of "voodoo" to get it up on my PC. Same with printers, since Apple has a better implementation of Universal Plug n' Play. Another thing is the ability to tailor the OS to your needs through AppleScript and Automator. I can use Automator to make a small application that everytime plug my dig camera into the computer it will ask prompt me to give a general name for the pics and import them with that name followed by a sequential number, i.e. yosemitee_001, etc. That way it isn't just img_001 when I already have five others by the same name. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. With AppleScript and Automator, if OS X doesn't already do it, just create it. And for most things it only take 10 or 15 minutes and then its always there.

For security. I will say that part of the reason it is more secure is hackers write what they know, which is Windows. However, OS X is also fundamentally more secure. It requires admin password to install or change anything in the system (Vista will implement this although as a layer on top of the OS, which can be gotten around). Also, you can actually run as a limited user in OSX. That means, even if there is a hole (which there are many, like any software) it cannot be exploited because you don't have the system rights to install it, and therefore neither does the virus/hacker. For those that have tried running Windows as limited user, you have found how hard that can be. Nearly impossible. Basically, Unix was built wiht security in mind from the beginning, it has always been built as a multi-user OS. Windows was not. And, since Microsoft is so huge they have to support legacy software which makes it difficult for them to migrate to a more multi-user platform.

Now there are myths. OS X does not really crash, but neither does XP. XP is rock solid. Most software except for business and games are available on both or have very good equivilants. It is also remarkable that Windows will run on about anything.

Now why did you ask this question?

 

My dad and sister are Mac users and I used one until I was 11, Personally I think Macs have a certain elegance to them and are quite beutiful to look at unfortunatly thats where it ends for me I find the interface clunky and confusing with needless intermediary steps. My sister is not very computer literate and despite having a very expensive mac she manages to crash it frequently enough, I use XP and havent had any virus's or spyware in a long while.

 

I have to disagree with "it simply works on a mac" comments. 99 percent of the hardware out there is designed to work with windows whereas you have to pick your hardware carefully to make sure it's OS X compatible; printers, scanners, webcams, tuner-cards (if you can find a pci one that works) or graphics cards won't work unless the drivers are built in to OS X or available through the vendor. Since the drivers are probably already built in to OS X it seems like a simpler process to set the hardware up but the point is OS X is just like Windows or Linux for that matter, unless there is specific effort on the vendors front nothing will work properly. Now, I would agree that it is easier to get things right with Mac but so is to get things right on a Dell. The reason that Mac's are on average more stable (compared to DIY PCs) on the software and more reliable on the hardware side is simply because the hardware + software is very much identical on two macs of the same model plus there are only a few models anyway. With windows, you can get 3 different models of mainboard from the same vendor using the same chipset, add graphics, memory, optical drives etc... to that equation along with different versions of Windows/Linux and you are more likely to bump into trouble somewhere along. I don't see mac people going around and buying 7600GT graphics cards because they have 1.2ns memory instead of 1.4 or buying motherboards tuned for extreme performance, as their demand from their PCs are different than the average PC crowd so they buy a Mac. If they wanted to game they would sell their Macs in an instant not to be the whipping boy of the lan parties

If you want absolute stability/reliability on a regular PC here is your formula
1- Intel mainboard with Intel chipset with integrated graphics
2- Kingston or Corsair memory preferably ECC (other brand vendors would do)
3- raid 0+1 setup
4- a decent case with proper airflow and good psu (Antec perhaps?)

or you can always go with an Opteron Dual Dual Core setup like I did. Workstation motherboards are built for absolute stability as long as you check the QVL...

 

Well the thing is though, Unix IS different, it has nothing to do with the hardware ro anything, a Dell with Unix is more stable than a Dell with XP, and since Macs use Unix (OS X is a type of unix) it is more stable than a computer with XP most of the time. I also don't think that people are trying to defend macs as gaming machines either... Now that Intel Macs are out though games such as Doom 3 which used to run poorly on macs now run very well.

But where the macs really shine is in creative applications like everything Adobe and iLife. Photoshop is so much better in OS X, for that matter so is Microsoft Office X, since they devlop the mac office later, they add more features and from my expirience it runs much better and has better features.

The thing is with hardware though, its not an issue, If you buy a new mac it has everything you need, you dont need to go out and buy a bunch of other crap. Macs use the same RAM and HDs as most other PCs too so thats not an issue either. and if you go to a store like www.macsales.com they have very good prices and have everything from high end mac graphics cards, RAM, hard drives, to processor upgrades and cases. I understand some people just dont like how OS X works, but thats not a good reason to say its bad and you dont like it because of its UI. Like obviously you dont prefer it and you just here to bash it, people have told you why they think its better and so have you, is there naything else you want to know? go to www.apple.com/switch if you want to know all the benifits of it

 

Actually, I think the reason prefer PCs over Macs is because they don't have to buy softwares for it and you know what I'm talking about.

 

kingcrowning you are thinking inside US only, even in central Europe you can not easily find processors, graphics cards etc for mac... Also have you looked at how much Mac graphics cards or other parts cost compared to PC's recently ? If you wanted to uprade your graphics card on an AGP PowerMac you would be paying a lot of cash for outdated technology. On a side note, afaik powerMac's are designed so that even if you can install a faster processor (some unlucky people have their processors soldered onto their mobos) it works at the highest speed the board allows it to run. I don't believe that even the most hardcore Mac fans would argue the fact that they are paying way too much for hardware so that they can use os x. I bought two dual core Opteron 270 for 800$ total and added two 7800GT's (one later) which cost me a lot less then what a Mac would cost and performs above any dual core Mac (perhaps the quad too). I prefer regular PCs over Macs for two reasons that I believe are very important : 1- I can upgrade/replace parts cheaper and easier 2- Everything I choose to install is my "choice", the looks and the performance of the PC is exactly the way I want it. (hint hint, I don't care for white much)

 

Ufster, as far as hardware upgrades, that could quickly and will likely become a thing of the past now that we are seeing them use the x86 platform. As far as mac mobo's throttling cpu's to a single speed, many pc vendors also make it difficult for you to overclcok your cpu, while perhaps not the same issue, similar in relation.

Also I think the fact is that they don't really cater to modders. They have typically had this "computer for normal/home user" approach rather then for the modder/hobbyist. You have to admit that based on that premise they really do a good job of it.

For this reason I wouldn't buy a Mac desktop, but certainly wouldn't mind buying a notebook as very few modify their notebook beyond ram.

 

Well, I am sorry if I was unclear on the subect, what I meant is that for example the board for dual G5 1.8 GHz will not accept 2.0 GHz G5 processors running at 2.0 GHz but instead run them at 1.8 GHz as the two processors have different front side bus speeds.

I totally agree that Mac users have valid reasons of their own for using Macs and I respect that but when people claim baseless and ignorant things such as "on a mac everything just works, a mac never stalls or crashes, a mac never blah blah (you get the point)" I find it really annoying.

The idea is simple, if you know the right hardware to buy for your PC, there is no way in hell you are going to suffer from instability. People put together 300$ PCs with crappy memory and power supply and obviously they encounter some problems, this doesn't reflect what a PC is capable of imho. Put crappy memoey on a Mac and get ready for the fireworks.

As I was saying, Mac people can brag about the stability of their systems but doing so while trashing PCs as being the opposite is just ignorant. As a PC person, I have considered buying a Mac recently since I work with Maya and finally a Quadro card was available but on the whole the PC I built is no less of a performer day in and day out compared to a G5 Quad and I haven't had a single stability issue. I don't like to pay any system an extra grand because it runs OS X you know... For me the OS is just a tool that I use to run a couple of programs on, don't really care if it has a GUI rendered by the graphics card or a lot of other eye candy...

 

Well the other thing you need to consider, You can buy a 450MHz G3 Powermac for less than $100 and it can still run OS X 10.4, albeit a bit slow, it still runs and its perfectly fine for basic office/music/internet stuff. Thats a 7 year old computer running the newest OS, I have a 3 year old Dell laptop that has issues with XP, an almost 5 year old OS. You cannot upgrade the CPUs on any of the G5s, thats just how they were designed, which isn't really an issue because its not like people go and buy Dells then upgrade their processors very often either, and this is a notebook forum, so even less people upgrade anything other than RAM and HDs in a laptop so that point is null in this argument.

But to each his own, I have had lots of expirience with both OS's and I CAN get a PC to work perfectly fine WITHOUT spyware/viruses etc, however there are things you need to do preemptivly to keep them away (firewalls virus scanners etc) and although they may not be much work or anything, its still one extra thing to do, and I havn't ever put any virus scanning software or firewall on a mac and I've never once gotten any virus' or spyware.

and mikez I'm assuming you are talking about downloading software off bit torrent or limewire, and for the record there is limewire and bit torrent for OS X as well as OS X apps on them. although that is illegal and shouldn't be discussed on this forum.

For many people who dont know how to build their own PCs macs are much easier, as you said, if you know what to buy and get high quality RAM/PSU etc then you can have a very stable PC, but with a mac you just go to the apple store, buy it and boom thats that they have picked out everything you need for stability.

It sounds like you've never really seriously used a mac before so I dont think any of the stuff you are saying has too much weight. I use PCs for school, and I'm on a PC right now, I've built a gaming PC before and I've used PCs for my whole life. I have also used macs for about 2 years, I've had everything from a G3 powermac and iBook to a G5 iMac and G5 powermac, and I've got an intel Macbook Pro 17" in the mail right now, and I think I can be pretty unbiased when I say that Macs are just nicer to use.

 

PC for the win. Personally I think PC's are way better than macs. I dont like macs, I dont like OSX 10. Plus they are overpriced, maybe if they werent so costly and under spec'd for the price...

 

Well the Powermacs and Macbook Pro are really for pros, If you compare a D820 to a Macbook Pro 15", the prices are actually fairly similar (you do get morewith the Dell though) so its not rediclious. And the 13" macbook is actually quite a good deal, at least with the student discount, as is the iMac espically with the built in widescreen displays. But you get what you pay for, the 17" Macbook Pro is as thin as many ultraportables, and its as light as most 15" Widescreen laptops. So it really is a give and take thing, if you spend more money you get a nicer laptop, if money is a big issue, then get a Dell or Asus and get a cheaper laptop that in my opinion isnt quite as nice.

 

Kingcrowing, what makes a laptop nice in your opinion? Having the Apple logo? The 17" MBP is way overpriced. $2800 and you only get a gig of RAM?

 

Normally I hate to nitpick people's comments but I feel I have to at this point

How can you assume that a p3 cannot run Windows XP smoothly for such simple tasks as you described ? As long as you are not gaming a p3 coupled with enough memory is more than enough to run Windows XP. I thought this was common knowledge but hey, never hurts to remind people.

The topic is not about Apple notebooks vs PC notebooks, it is about Apple vs PC on the general. So, I don't get how you managed to come to that conclusion. To be exact, you can change processors on most PC notebooks as they are not usually soldered. Last year I opened up a dead p4 notebook (t30) of my buddies and replaced the processor with a mobile one we bought used. Guess what, it worked like a charm. On the general PC notebook parts or PC parts are much easier to find as 90x more PCs are sold which also means as the supply is greater the prices are a whole lot lower than Mac parts, it's just natural course of the economy.

So you really think double clicking to install some software which updates itself automatically, scans for virii automatically, blocks ads automatically is too much of a trouble. Best of all you do it once a year maximum, that is if you want to upgrade your software. I also read somewhere it took an hacker 25 minutes to get admin rights on OS X so you are not as safe as you think.

I get what you mean. If you have the money and want to buy a computer that looks good, is easy to use, reasonably fast, stable and reliable a Mac is one of the better options out there. They also keep their value much better than brands like Dell or Sony. But any true "professional" will have very specific needs and Macs are too "vague" computers to fulfill those needs imho, they almost always lack some important thing you need(want). Like with Nvidia Quadro SLI (even Quad SLI is possible now) that should do marvels with Nvidia Gelato which is not available for Mac yet - neither is regular SLI for that matter. Gamers seriosly should look elsewhere also....

That comment is absolutely useless and does nothing for anybody. It is just your opinion and it doesn't change if you had a thousand PCs and thousand Macs, for me there is no difference between using OS X (which I did at work for a long time) or Windows or Linux since all I do is double click the icon of the program I want to launch and go on with my business. So excuse me if I don't drool at expose or genie effect minimizing windows. I really don't care much for eye candy that just uses up system resources I paid for.

 

alsojust a thing to check with your old laptop that can not run XP
notebooks usually slow down because of hard-drives getting old so just buy a new hard-drive and let it work marvels for you as Windows XP uses a lot of virtual memory so a faster/better shaped hard-drive is a big boost to performance on many occasions. P3 is a good processor, I bet it is faster than a G3.

 

Well, what makes a computer nice in my opinion is many things, a combonation of looks, performance, stability, build quality, service/support, and the cool-factor. And I think that All Apples have that.

And I'm not stupid, I know that a P3 can Run XP, I had an old Gateway 450MHz P2 that I had XP on with only 288MB of RAM... I know that it works, but its far from acceptable, but that really is besides the point.

As I said, I know its possible to upgrade laptop processors, daystar and newertech have released processor upgrades for every laptop mac has made up to the Powerbook G4s (there are none for the macbook pros yet, but if it can be done on a windows laptop it will be done on the macs too)

Again, as I said its not a huge hassel to have a window pop up for 30 seconds and have little update windows com up once a month and stuff for virus protections, but as I said it is one more thing to deal wiht thats not an issue with OS X, as I said its not a huge deal but its one less thing...

If macs are so "vague" as you said, how come so many creative professionals use them for music, video and graphic editing, everything, they can be used for many things if thats what you mean but thats broad not vague...

 

Might I point out again, the processor and hardware arguements are quickly becoming null and void as mac adopts the x86 platform and logically the x64 that is gaining popularity. Meaning you can run windows on an apple machine and osx on a pc.

For this reason I think we should be comparing software and not hardware.

With that said, I think you have to admit the Mac typically leads the way between the two when it comes to OS innovation. While the GUI is largely a matter of personally preference, keep in mind windows often draws from Mac's interfaces. Macs I think more stable just due to design practice. It is based off of Unix and they don't make much effort to be backwards compatible, keeping their coding more simple (Yes this can also be considered a vice).

Windows does have the benefit of being quite universal, hence more programs written for it, as well as more hardware being optimized for it. As I mentioned before, Microsoft works to make new OSs backwards compatible with the old programs and hardware, and while nice for users it makes programming much more complicated leading instability and was one of the major hurdles that really tripped up Longhorn.

Really it comes down to a difference in programming mentality by the two companies and marketshare.

 

It takes me 5 seconds to get admin rights on a Mac, but can I actually use it? No I can't... You failed to understand just because someone gets in doesn't mean its all over, its definitely not, they have to go through much more to truely get the access they desire. I did this once at my school, I got the admin rights but I couldn't do jack with it, thats because once you come over one obstacle there is another, now since you said your an linux user, you should already know how hard it is to get into a linux box, you end up having to rely on rare exploits to actually do something, well granted Mac isn't linux, but it is unix, which linux is basically modeled after.

Mac users dont care about SLi, how many times does every one need to be told that Macs aren't made for gaming, Steve Jobs isn't worried about that right now.

 

I am saying it for the last time, I do believe there is a use for Macs (just not one for me to buy one) and I don't have anything against people who buy them. What I stated is my personal opinion and it basically says that no one can say that Macs are better because they think/feel the OS X is better, the cool factor is more etc... All arguments people put forward are non-technical and therefore can not be calculated to say like OS X is 9 units secure and windows is 6 units secure. So just because you think or believe that OS X is more secure or the mac is more stable does not make it so, most people here do not know why/how OS X would be more secure than Windows, they just read that in some Apple website. FYI, I don't know it either...

Just to remind, for years apple users swore by power pc architecture and all the little fxxk they knew was based on apple propaganda and because some bald guy said so. Now all of a sudden Apple decides to use X86 cpus and the power pc is no longer "cool" and everyone should buy Macbooks instead ??? What's worse is that I have read a thousand of these apple vs pc threads and I haven't heard much from any Mac user that sounded remotely "original".

edit : removed last part of my post cuz I realized it sounded offensive...

 

Well the PPC wasnt about being cool at all, it was about what they used at the time, and when Apple went to the PPC way back a long time ago, it was far better than Intel so thats why they chose it, and a G5 is very comprable to most high end Intel desktop chips, but they maxed out the PPC and moved on, not because its 'cool' but because its cool, they run cooler and they can put them into laptops. Its that simple, the G5 was at an end and they couldnt put one into a laptop, so they moved one when they hit a dead end.

And so what you just said is that there is no way of saying why one system is better than another. The difference, as stated above by Bryan is the OS and UI, not the hardware espically since macs are now using the same hardware as many PCs, and maybe they are more expensive, I paid $2600 for a 17" Macbook Pro+iPod+Printer, so thats like $2300 for a 17" macbook pro, which is not that expensive compared to like a 17" HP dv200t. But the benifit is its 1" Thin and its really cool looking, plus it comes with iLife which is supurb.

So I guess other than the fact that PCs currently have more upgrade paths than macs (that will change completly once the Intel powermacs are out) why are PCs so much better? You said it ant have anything to do with the OS because you dont care about what you look at when you click the program, so what else does it have to do with?

And you say that you cant give a number to how secure the OS is, well thats true, but you could give the number of viruses/spyware for each os, and there are far less for OS X than windows. now maybe they could make a billion more viruses for OS X, but the reality is they arent there yet so right now if you get OS X you are less likley to get attacked by a virus than you are if you have XP.

Are you less likley to get AIDS in russia just because not as many people have it there? Not really, but you aren't necessacarily more likley to get AIDS in Africa either, but in practice, you would be more likely to get AIDS in Africa just because so many more people have it, its the same deal with XP and OS X, you can still get a virus in OS X, there are just so many less currently that in the end you are safer

 

The point is if Windows sucked so badly and was inoperable due to virii, instability and slowness, majority of computer users wouldn't be using it. I use linux and I like linux more than I like windows but I don't really like to trash Windows because I boot to Windows often and obviously it serves me good enough (along with millions). Heck, even if OS X is better, faster and safer from a technical standpoint (which I still insist can not be objectively tested) using Windows is just as good imho. If it weren't people would refuse to buy it, simple as that. I won't pay more money for same hardware just because it runs OS X and that's final.

About the processor, leaving G5 out of the equation for a sec, how about the sucky G4 processors you put up with on the notebooks and how they performed compared to Centrino notebooks, they were no match for Pentium-M but Apple insisted so with fake benchmarks and claims. Oddly enough the same Apple company claimed dual core Pentium-M s were 4x faster than G4 processors which makes Pentium-M twice as fast by scale. Lets be honest, PPC wasn't better than anything on the x86 front and it was costing Apple and Apple users a lot of money.

You paid twice as much on a G5 machine that the half priced Opteron or Xeon systems could easily match or better. PPC was just another way to make Apple users feel "distinct" and if it wasn't for the fact that IBM ditched Apple to focus on Xbox 360 and PS3, you would still be using the G4 suckers on your notebooks.

On the upgrade front, I hope you are right and with the switch to x86 components it will be possible to use regular graphics cards etc... on Apple systems. I would like to see that happening too.

How come you paid 2300$ for the MBP 17" which the Apple store sells starting from 2799 ? Well let me put it this way, if I configure your notebook

1- 2.16 GHz Core Duo
2- 1 GB DDR2-667 Ram
3- 120 GB HDD
4- 256MB X1600
5- DVD+RW etc...
6- 17"
from Apple store germany it costs 2729€

for 500€ less than that money you could buy a 17" laptop based on Clevo which has

2.16 Core Duo
2 GB DDR2-667
512MB 7900GTX (truly rapes the X1600)
120GB hdd 5400 rpm
DVD+RW
17"
has 2 year warranty compared to Apple's 1

compare the performance of the two notebooks and I see no reason to buy MBP, sorry. Also, with all the heat and noise issues I read about the MBPs please do not claim that MBP is so much better engineered, Clevo is good enough for Alienware therefore it is good enough fot everybody. Best thing is they can upgrade the display to WUXGA for 60€s to watch HD DVD's at native resolution.

 

I knew this was going to be an ugly thread when I saw the first post. This whole mac vs. pc thing is old, but I'll tread in with my two cents anyway:

Macs are great for grandmothers and graphic designers. They do some things really well (like graphic design, etc) and the OS is relatively stable/safe for computer illiterates who just want to check their email and look at their vacation pictures. This isn't an insult. I'm just trying to say that if my parents were going to buy a new computer, I would tell them to buy a mac mini or an imac so that they wouldn't have to deal with virii on their email/websurfing/picture viewing machines.

PCs offer choice that you will never find in the apple lineup. Apple offers something like 2 or 3 desktops and 2 or 3 laptops while you could probably have 2 or 3 dozen/hundred choices for PC desktops/laptops. This choice can translate into value ($400 dell laptops) or power (massive towers or 19" notebooks with dual graphics cards). You will always find better performance and better value in the PC world, but maybe not at the same time. The important thing is choice.

Also, I have had no crashes of my OS as long as I've been running XP Pro SP2. Although individual programs may get hung up, I can't imagine I have any more problems than the average OSX user.

Now, a couple of pet peeves about macs:

-The whole powerPC thing. Before apple switched, all the benchmarks showed G4's faster than pentium M's. Now the benchmarks show core duo processors (which are ~10-20% faster than pentium m's) 4x faster than the G4's. Doesn't this mean that pentium M's were always 2-3x faster than the G4's? The same thing applies for how mac users are now in love with the intel integrated graphics card after talking trash about it for so long.

-The idea that OSX is intuitive or easy or simple. I get confused about where files are stored, what programs are running, where programs' information/install data is kept, and how to open up contextual menus (like right-click). I'm not stupid, these things just are not intuitive and can be quite confusing.

-Expensive accessories that they hawk in the apple store. I know you can use most accessories for Mac's but why can't they offer mice cheaper than $60? It seems like they play on the naivete/exclusivity of mac users to buy apple-branded/associated accessories.

-The whole distinction between "pro" and "consumer" level goods. Are macbook pro's really just supposed to be for audio engineers/graphic designers? If I want to play video games on a laptop, do I have to be a professional? Whenever anyone brings up the idea that they want to have certain qualities in a notebook (like a graphics card for in a notebook less than $2000), people talk about how that's a "pro" feature and how you shouldn't expect to see that on a "consumer" level notebook. For example, why can't apple offer a small notebook with a dedicated graphics card or sell a 17" notebook for less than $2500?

-The love of gimmicks. Whenever macusers compare apple vs pc notebooks, it seems that someone overvalues stupid little things like light-up keyboards or slot-loading disk drives while overlooking things like processors, memory, graphics cards, LCD quality or price.

All of that said, macs definitely have their place, are beautiful (looking) machines and I would buy a MBP in a flash if it came with two trackpad buttons (I don't want to lug around mice and hate trackpad tapping and no, ctrl-apple-two finger tap is not an intuitive way to right-click).

EDIT: Sorry for the long post.

 

I'm not trying to nitpick, but from a historical perspective it is because Microsoft convinced IBM to ship their units with their OS and for IBM not to buy the OS from them, but to license it. IBM put enough of these units into people's hands and the rest is history, people just simply know the Microsoft OS. For the same reason a Mac user resists using Windows, and Windows user resists Mac, familiarity (ignoring issues of benefits for each).

 

Do you think the fact that Apple refused to license their software to other hardware manufactures hindered their popularity just a little bit? For a long time, apple computers cost a lot more than their PC counterparts.

Now I'm not too knowledgeable about the history of the mac clones, but its seems like if Apple allowed competition in the hardware manufacturing (by licensing their software) and made interoperability with MS a priority, it would have a much larger market share than it does now. Of course, this may hurt the bottom line, but there would be a bunch more apple users.

 

Ok, I was never comparing the G4 and Pentium M, I said WAY back when Apple FIRST started using PPC, it was better than x86, we're talking pre-G3, this was when it was like Pentium 1, back them PPC was much faster and better, its that simple, over time Intel did take the lead I obviously Agree because Thats what I just bought.

I get the Macbook Pro 17" for $2600 with student discount, and a free $100 printer and $180 iPod, that means I pay $2300 for the laptop itself. and the 17" MBP has none of the heat/noise issues of the 15", it runs very cool and has no whine at all.

And Apples are just a whole nothe level, I mean not to sound elitist but they do have that image, not everyone can afford an Apple and having one is a statement, espically the pro lines. Maybe a Porsche isn't as fast as a Pontiac GTO, but the Porsche has a totally different statement than a GTO. You can get a more powerful for the money PC (like the GTO) but its still not the same as an Apple (Porsche...) and for many people its as simple as that. I love OS X and every little 'gimmick' that the macbook pro has, and I'd rather have that kind of stuff than an HP that says "W I D E S C R E E N" accross the top... I know its a widescreen, and I'd rather have a light up keyboard than all the names of the ports written on the side of the KB, I know what a USB and firewire port are thank you very much.

But like I said, Porsche people will be Porsche people and GTO people with be GTO people.

 

I would suggest it is time for everyone to agree to disagree. Macs are good for some. PCs are good for some. And the vast majority of the world does not care what they use.

**EDIT** BTW, not to fan the flames, but all this upgrade talk. Last I checked this a notebook forum. Upgrades are very limited on EVERY laptop. As for desktops, Dell is the #1 seller. Anyone ever try to upgrade a major component of a Dell? It ain't straightfoward or easy.

 

Yes who cares about mac vs pc now.

Someone should lock this thread, it's pointless and I can only sense this whole thing is going to get more heated.

It's all personal preferences so lets just leave it at that and kill this thread.

 

Just want to say two things before this thread gets sent into the bowels of Hell, where it rightfully belongs:

(1) The point of my post was not to say that PC's are inherently "better" or that Macs are "bad". I just wanted to make some points about some arguments some people (not necessarily in this forum) make that I disagree with.

(2) Shame on the mod who let this stupid thread live. This thread was flamebait from the beginning and it should be closed as soon as humanly possible. Nothing good can come from the "mac vs pc" thread.

 

Well I don't see any need to close this thread, by and large we have stayed on topic and haven't insulted each other.

As far as Apple not licensing its software, while I definitely agree it probably stunted their chance to become the standard windows has, who would really want Mac's OS since it they were written for the PowerPC which only Apple produced? The OS's were optimized for the PowerPC architecture and compiling for x86 really made little sense at the time.

The history between Apple/Mac and Microsoft is really pretty interesting. Apple missed a few oppurtunities to bury Microsoft and in ways gave Microsoft a jump start. Still I really think you would be hardpressed to argue that Microsoft doesn't have a tendency to copy Mac.

 

i think that the disscussion/argument is great to read. its entertianing! i'm learning alot about the history of each company. (wat is a x86?) dont take this thread away. its a good read. i have been along time pc user and only now am starting to get into macs. i think they look better, have some very interresting "gimmicks", and are well built. Apple is different and i like that. sure pc's work great to but i find them plain and boring. apple is just offering some thing different, they are just and worried about performence as they are about design and usability. i think pc concentrate on the performence and in doing so they have lower prices but are for the most part are think and clunky. not as nice to look at. i for one am willing to spend the extra $200 or so to have a sexy looking piece of hardware. after all i'm spending thousands of dollars on a machine that i will be using everyday for a few years why cant it look good aswell and perform?

 

Go LINUX!!!!

Yeah, this is a matter (to some extent) of personal preference. I like XP, it works, I can control it, and it came with my computer.

I don't like white plastic mac computers, but some of their stuff does look really snazzy! My friends are Mac Addicts, and of course we have huge "Mac vs PC" wars were we each bombard each other with every insult we can think of about the other type of computer (all in good fun), but in the end, I wouldn't mind having a mac, and my friend wouldn't mind having a windows machine.

So we can all live in harmony and bliss...

Cyrus

 

As a PC user for many years, I decided to go to my local campus shop to test drive Mac OSX. The operating itself is impressive and easy to use, but there are a few things that left a bad taste in my mouth...

1. When hitting the "+" button on the top of the window, it doesn't maximize but rather adjusts the window size for best viewing. This is a huge problem, because it could lead to desktop clutter especially if you are multitasking. What was apple thinking?

2. If you hit "X" on the top of the window, you are not really closing the program. What is the purpose of minimizing button then?

I consider these as... odd...

 

once you start using OS X you get used to not maximizing to the whole screen, its actually much more effective for multiple tasks and illiminates desktop clutter once you get used to it, it does take some time

 

I agree(d). After using it for a month now I am very used to and in fact love those features. The - minimizes and the x closes the window, not the program. This way it is readily available if you need it again, which I usually do.

 

I never use the + anyways, but I agree I love how when you hit X it just closes the window, and its still loaded for quick access later on. I usually use keyboard shortcuts to quit like Apple + Q

 

I have one question, with GeForce 8600GT supporting DX10, will I be able to run all the next gen games on the MBP? Will I have to use boot camp and load up XP/Vista in order to play the latest games on the Macbook?

 

lol.. for all of those (pc users) - I`ve been using pcs all my life..
yes I sometimes get problems!!! HEY they are made by humans... - we are imperfect ...

so both macs and pcs can crash from time to time...
but like other said.... there are millions of viruses for pcs because they are more popular than macs

It`s all about how you "maintain your car".. I`ve known people that changed and messed up their car because the way they were driving/taking care of..
I personally haven`t had problems with my car because I don`t drive crazy..
ok enough with these comparisons..

so... I rarely use antiviruses.. or spywares.. My computer (PC) almost all the times works as it should. VERY FAST (I guess it depends how old your machine is- mine is up to date)

remember this - you can only get viruses if you accept files - or click on something (that you don`t know what it is)

and like UFTER SAID (on comment above me) - most people assemble crappy pcs (cheap).. and not all of them are compatible...

there is a lot more going on that just this

final thought - pcs are more customizable and I don`t want to say fast, but I`m assuming they are by the specs..

but hey... they`ve become really close now.. technology changes every year

bottom line - stick with whatever you like... BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE after all you do the same things with both...

 

brunetziku,

This thread is far outdated now. Please don't revive old threads in the future. Thanks!