MBP or Air?

My story is pretty similar to this guy's - I was a mac user, moved to Windows for many years, and am now considering coming back.

My current computer is a Vaio Z. I'm unhappy with it in enough ways to want to switch, but what I really like is that it weighs only 2.5 lbs, yet has a full voltage dual core i7 processor. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent in the mac line.

I walk a lot carrying my laptop. The weight of the MacBook Pro is a huge downside for me. My compute power needs are mainly modest, but I do video editing work and some programming, which means I appreciate having high CPU power from time to time.

My question is, do people find the Air's ULV i5/i7 to be sufficiently powerful for the occasional compute-intensive task, or is the Air really to be thought of as a toy for executives to do their email on? Do I need to suck it up and carry the MBP around?

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

Are you just carrying a laptop or other things as well? Aside from the good exercise (I would recommend Asus G73 for that ), I think a good investment in a padded backpack really makes things a lot easier.

PS Why do you hate your Vaio? Is it because of the fan issue (newer ones have separate dock for dedicated GPU) or is it the scratch attracting carbon fiber body? I have a Z and it has scratches on the inside even though I treat it like a baby. I am wondering if Sony would fix it even if I take a gulp at their longer than usual depot turn around times for repairs.

 

I wouldn't say that I hate it; it just didn't work out to be everything I had hoped. The keyboard is awful; the display is very high dpi, but Windows' scaling features don't work that well; the power media dock does not provide the level of graphics I was hoping for. I actually have avoided getting any scratches so far. Good luck with yours

It's more an issue that I had a few programs that were tying me to Windows
and as time moves forward, there are fewer and fewer, so I can contemplate a move back to mac.

 

Well both the 13" MBP and Airs feature integrated graphics, so either way you're not going to enjoy video editing.

You'll not find a laptop with the Vaio Z's specs in the 13" form factor. In the Mac world, you'd have to move up to the 15" to get a proper discrete video card. I couldn't recommend any less for someone thinking about a mac laptop for video editing.

 

I would agree the MBP is heavy for it's size. Are you only considering Macs? There certainly some PCs that might work too. The X220 is a fantastic ultraportable and it offers full voltage CPUs. The Dell E6320, ThinkPad T420s or Sony Vaio SE could be options too. The Sony is a 15", but weighs the same as the 13" MBP and has a gorgeous IPS screen.

 

Unless you do very intensive video editing, a discrete GPU isn't really mandatory. A faster standard-voltage CPU will help, but to be honest, there it'll still work just fine on a MBA. The MBA 13 has the added benefit over the MBP 13 of having greater screen resolution to fit more work on your screen.

Unless an optical drive is a must, I would generally recommend the MBA 13 over the MBP 13.

 

I would point out, when pushing the CPU, the fan gets quite loud on the Air, though it's certainly not the only laptop that does so.

 

Right. The fan in the MBP can get just as loud when the system is pushed. Light to medium video editing should be fine on a 13" MBA. I wouldn't try to render 3D animations or drastically change the lighting of a scene but more basic tasks should be alright. I do many basic tasks with my 13" MBA that range from fixing scenes up (changing the contrast and color saturation along with applying motion smoothing), adding subtitles, transitions, custom music, etc. I am doing this all with 1080p 30fps and 1080i 60fps video sources (deinterlacing the 1080i video too) and outputting 1080p 30fps videos.

I am definitely not trying to make my own Avatar and am instead focusing on home videos that I shot myself while also helping friends out with their home videos. My MBA's fans generally kick on when I am exporting the video during the encoding process and that is about it. Even with Garageband fired up in the background (where I am making the "music"), the system operates very smoothly.

 

Do you have a carbon fiber body? I wish I hadn't gotten that in hindsight!

 

Thanks for the very helpful replies. I am sure that the HD3000 integrated graphics will be perfectly adequate, since that is what my current computer has, and it works just fine.

My concern is more with the slower ULV CPU in the Air. Nobody has addressed that explicitly so far, which makes me think it isn't likely a problem, or y'all would have said... Thanks again!

(@shriek11 - yes, I have the CF... been lucky so far, I guess...)

 

It's not really going to be a problem. The CPU is very formidable and can pretty much handle anything you can throw at it (aside from complex rendering or gaming). In fact, benchmarks out the 1.7GHz Core i5 in the MBA at about the same level as the dual-core Core i7 in the 2010 17" MBP.

 

Yep. The ULV CPU in the MBA 13 is more powerful than many of the higher-clocked CPUs from the last Core i_ generation, and certainly tops the Core 2 Duos which already handle video editing just fine.

 

If considering a used 2010 vs 2011 MBA 13'', is it worth the price premium to get the 2011 with the 1.7GHz Core i5 vs the 1.8Ghz C2D? All the other specs seem identical besides the graphics.

Say $1150 for the 2011 and $900 for the 2010.

 

I would say it is worth the money, from my experience the C2D is a severely underpowered and old processor and just not even comparable to the Core i5.

 

Definitely go for the 2011 MBA. Additionally, the Intel HD 3000 in the 2011 model is very, very comparable to the Nvidia 320m in the 2010 MBA. The 320m performs some tasks better and the HD 3000 pulls ahead for others. All-in-all, the HD 3000 is a nice integrated solution (the 320m was also integrated, it wasn't desecrate graphics).

Also don't forget that the 2011 model adds Thunderbolt and a backlight keyboard, the 2010 does not have a backlight keyboard. The Core i5 in the 2011 MBA simply wipes the floor with even the highest end C2D that was found in the 2010 MBA. That performance increase alone (which puts the 2011 MBA above the top-of-the-line 2010 17" MBP in terms of the CPU) is worth the extra money let alone the backlight keyboard and possible implementations of Thunderbolt (which still has a ways to go before proving itself).

 

According to NotebookCheck, Geforce 320M is 10% faster than Intel's HD 3000. In fact the 320M is as powerful as the discrete Radeon 6470M which is currently in the Sony Vaio SE, for example. I currently have that laptop and I find gaming much much better on the 6470M switchable graphics than running on the integrated HD 3000.

Then again, I have to agree with you the i5 seems much faster than the C2D according to benchmarks. I guess i5+3000 > C2D+320M

Backlit keys, I find those more distracting than helpful, so I usually leave them off. As for thunderbolt, only time will tell...

 

10% faster means "much much better gaming"?

I'm interested to see what happens with the upcoming HD 4000, which one rumour claims to be 50% faster than the HD 3000.

 

Sorry, have to say it~

Air, because it's free!

Seriously, do you have a need for high performance processing?

 

For all intents and purposes, the 6470M is just as onboard as the 320M is onboard.

 

Get the 2011 model, After I sell my T420s I'll be looking to get either a MBA 2011 or wait and see what the Ivy Bridge refresh of the Macs will look like.

 

Benchmarks are benchmarks. People may reference them from time to time but such insignificant differences between the two aren't going to be noticeable. Just like benchmarks between different processors or other graphical solutions.

Now, if benchmarks are pointing to a significant difference, I believe they can be used to express further real world differences. Small gaps between difference pieces of tech often don't translate well so that they are noticeable in the real world. So I wouldn't worry about a difference that small (especially when each IGP has their own set of tasks that they do better than the other).

 

Are you saying you can not see the difference between 22 frames per second and 23 frames per second when playing a game in low?

 

Hi,
I have a Sony Z series and while happy with it - feel somilar & am considering the MAC AIR.

Did you opt for the Air in the end - what dd you decide; I would welcome your view?

I like the MAC AIR for its light weight but concerns are
1/ performace & lag when running mutiple programmes
2/ Battery performance (as I bought Z for 5hr batt & only see 2.hr - with Mac Air can I expect a more real 5hrs under normal usage?
3/ Also does battery 'really' retain charge while in standby (because I always use standby for fast start)
4/ Finally, I have 8Gb RAM in Sony but Air only comes with max of 4Gb - is this really sufficent?

Any options welcome,
Cheers,
t

 

1. Not an issue. I continually have multiple programs open (Safari, iTunes, MATLAB with multiple 1000+ lines of code in about 30 different macros, Word 2011, Excel 2011, and Preview) and my MBA performs just fine. I don't notice a difference between that and my early 2011 13" MBP when doing those tasks.

2. It depends on what you are doing, if wi-fi and Bluetooth are on or off, etc. I normally get about 5.5 -6.5 hours of real world usage. 5.5 when I am running my extensive MATLAB code (it is an extreme resource hog when macros are executed) and 6.5 for general wi-fi on usage.

3. Yep. I never shut my MBA down, i simply out it in standby mode and call it a day. In fact, I believe turning off the MBA and having it go through the boot cycle consumes more battery life than just putting it into standby mode (ie closing he lid).

4. Unless you are running multiple VM's, 4GB of RAM is going to be plenty. I went from an early 2011 13" MBP with 8GB of RAM to my mid 2011 13" MBA with 4GB. I haven't had any issues and I run a Win 7 ultimate VM for MATLAB.

 

Thank you very much for your quick response & answers which I appreciate greatly.

I do not intend using VMs or Windows in Mac - but I do use MS Office & tend to have a lot open, like dropbox, twitter, MS Mesh, Skype, MSN, Yahoo, Evernote etc etc & I could go on - so my demands for a signle programme are minimal but I do have a lot of smaller progs running in the background.

My main concern was lag (due to 4Gb & ULVM) plus battery performance but seems from your experience, this is not an issue.

Thanks - now placing my order

 

Actually, I decided to wait for now. My current computer is working fine, and I'm eager to see what the new MBP looks like before committing. If it's a little lighter and smaller than the current one (which the rumours appear to hint at) then it could be a winner. I can certainly hang on for two or three months, by which point we should know more.

 

You must be on really low brightness and must not watch any videos? My battery seems fine (6800 mAh) but I never go to 5 hours but hover around 2.5 hours before I plug it in. Of course, I don't completely run it down to hibernate, though I don't think it would matter that much like add at most 20 minutes to the time.

 

I would not buy a new laptop in 2012 that still has a legacy optical drive. I'm waiting for new MacBook Pros to come out before ever considering them.

 

Brightness at 50% with bluetooth off and wi-fi on and connected to a network. I don't really use my MBA for watching videos on-the-go as I generally lean on my iPad for that. Additionally, when I browse the web, I make sure to visit sites that aren't Flash heavy as that kills the batter too.

 

Thanks for you posted - appreciated.

So, is 2.5hr more realistic for 'real usage' eg wifi on/ bt on & using email & web plus some you-tube ? As I am hoping for better plus you say brightness at 50% but is that automatic through sensor (to control creen brigtness).

Also, do you know at what low battery level the laptop auto closes? as with windows, its annoying that it will say 5% left yet it then hibenates - (why dont these manufactures you the batt level like a car fuel level & calabrate to zero for switch off.

Anyways, thanks.

Cheers,
t

 

usually at a room with good ambiance light brightness is at 50%, the brighter the ambient the brighter the display gets.

getting the battery down to zero would kill it faster.

Korn and I have usually different uses. For example now my current usage of battery is outside my office, it entails, outlook, msn, addium, chrome with usually 5-8 tabs and one of those pages is a trading platform that updates info by the second, icalendar, skype, brightness 50%, keyboard backlighting off, bluetooth off, wifi on. I can get 5-6h out of that, while I do have a mbp 13, the battery life is very similar.

Sincerely for me the general usage of a laptop now is to watch youtube, facebook, several tabs open on whatever browser that you use, have some instant messaging program. All this is flash heavy and it kills battery no matter what platform you are.

What you can do is to watch youtube on html5, it saves a little bit of power.

The battery life that you want you may be able to achieve on the x220, wtih the 9cell battery. Probably a thinkpad aint what you look in terms of style and thinness, however its quite light and have up to 20h+ of battery life if you use the slice + 6 cell battery.

 

how does one enable html5 the browser, as I thought it was enabled by default on safari, chrome, even FF?

@trevor: Ideally, you should plug it in around 40%, but at least in windows you actually can change at what percent your computer hibernates unlike Mac, if that is what you were going for. Also, you can't change the battery in Mac now or in the future. I know it looks cool with a flat bottom, but yeah it also means more money for Apple, as I don't know any reliable source that sells batterys if you can pry off the the bottom case in the 1st place.

 

are you sure html5 on youtube saves power? haven't they switched to webm video?

 

google youtube html5, and sign in for the beta

dunno, but from what I can gather from my own usage it indeed consumers less power

 

I would say more like 4-5 hours. It all depends on what version of YouTube you are accessing and what resolution of videos you are watching. Flash is a real resource hog and HTML provides some relief for that. My only issue with YouTube's HTML 5 site is that it is still buggy (for my anyway), I can't always make a video full screen, and sometimes videos just refuse to load. I know Google is working on it but my HTML 5 experience with YouTube hasn't really changed since they first opened it up.

The automatic sensor in the MBA (and MBP) is really only used for slight adjustments. I haven't really observed drastically increasing or decreasing display brightness. It is pretty easy to decrease the brightness using the keyboard though, there are dedicated keys. The ambient sensor still does a better job than any other Windows notebook I have come across though. That doesn't mean that there aren't better ones out there, I just haven't experienced them.

There are Windows notebooks that will get better battery life than a MBP or MBA. The only difference between them and Macs is that Apple is able to pull off their battery life (which is still pretty good) using much thinner designs whereas Windows notebooks are thicker and/or require an additional battery sleeve. That is why people often say that the MBP/MBA have nice battery life. When compared to other notebooks in the same price range (especially the business models), the MBP isn't the best but it definitely isn't the worst. However, when you start looking at notebooks in the same price range with similar design factors (weight, thickness, etc.), the MBP (same for the MBA) is up there.

 

So you are leaving it to the Mac to adjust the light? Btw, there are notebooks on the windows side like Vaio Z that do it as well.

 

I always adjust the brightness myself on my MacBooks. It's always higher than what I need by default but I drain batteries pretty quick compared to the average user.

 

No, that's not what I said. I adjust the brightness manually as the ambient light sensor seems to only make marginal adjustments (at leas when I am trying to conserve the battery). As I said, it is still better than any Windows notebook I have come across. There might be better or worse solutions, I can't really tell if I don't have any experience with them. As previously pointed out, the brightness always seems to be higher than need be. Granted, I am only getting an additional ~20 minutes or so by manually adjusting the backlight brightness but it can add up when I know I won't be in front of an AC outlet for a while. I also work a lot under fluorescent lighting and that always seems to throw it off for some reason.

 

Same with my macbook pro