MBP Are there problems?

I am starting to narrow my search for my laptops down, and I am interested in the macbook pro 17". Are there any problems with these laptops that I should know of before I buy them? I will be using it for the adobe suit, finalcut pro, internet, word documents,lots of music, and some photos. I have an 30g vid ipod so I need it to handle all the music for that.

Does anyone have a link to a good price for finalcut pro, or the adobe suit? Thanks for help.

 

I'm not sure if there is educational pricing on FCP. For the Creative Suite though and other software, since you have a student discount, you can get a good price at http://www.academicsuperstore.com.

Regarding the 17" MBP, it doesn't seem to have quite as many problems as the first gen 15" MBP, and some of the significant problems it did have apparently were resolved by a recent firmware update.

It seems like most of the problems though have been related to either a whining sound, or the fans not coming on at the right time, or general heat issues, etc. Probably a good idea to make sure of the return policy before you buy, and also to consider getting the AppleCare extended warranty, in case you run into any problems down the road.

 

Yes, there are several. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro lists seven problems including various noises, excessive heat, (by-design) GPU underclocking, etc. Additionally, Apple has recently admitted to a discolouration problem.

That said, it's still a pretty spiffy laptop. You can find MUCH cheaper similarly-equipped laptops from other manufacturers, however, such as the ASUS Z96J which, when I priced it out, was about 55% the price of a similarly equipped MacBook Pro. If you go with an Apple laptop, you'd probably want to go with after-market RAM upgrades.

 

Zadillo, you stated that apple might be revising the mbp and have a new one out august/september? Does anyone know of this? I am pretty sure I want to go with the apple because of the programs I will be using.

 

Just to clarify, the discolouration problem seems to be just related to the white MacBooks, not the MBP's.

That's good advice about the RAM. Definitely cheaper to buy it from ramjet.com or newegg.com or whatever.

Of the MBP problems listed on the wiki article, I think some of those related to the early 15" models, not the later 15" models or the 17" models. It seems like people who are getting more recently constructed MBP's haven't had as many of these issues, but it's hard to tell.

I think that's really the main thing, if you do still get a model with one of these problems, the big thing seems to be to make sure you can return it (or at least get it repaired under warranty, if necessary).

Just to ask, where were you able to price out a Z96J so cheaply? When I tried to put one together with a 2 GHz Core Duo, 512 megs of memoruy, 80GB 5400 RPM SATA HD, multidrive (perhaps not completely fair since the Z96J can do DL burning while the MBP can't) and Windows XP Pro, the price came out to $1629. Still not bad, but not that far off from the $1999 MSRP of the similar 15" MBP (not 55% of the price I mean).

-Zadillo

 

I don't think anyone knows any details for sure. As it is, the 15" MBP's have already had one revision (when they boosted the CPU speeds, etc.). The main speculation has been though that Apple will at the very least be offering upgraded MBP's with Merom chips.

Apple's annual Worldwide Developer's Conference (WWDC) is August 7th-11th, and Apple often releases new or updated hardware then. It's considered almost definite that Apple will be releasing new tower desktops (since the Power Mac G5 is the oldest computer in Apple's product line, and the one product that hasn't been switched over to Intel yet).

But most people assume that the MBP's will at least get Core 2 Duo upgrades as well in August/September. I think the general hope would be that these models might also get rid of most of the build quality and heat issues, etc. people have been complaining about, but there's no way to know until they're actually out.

There isn't anything official yet though - it's basically just speculation that Apple will almost certainly be releasing Core 2 Duo upgraded laptops - I wouldn't necessarily expect them to have any significant upgrades beyond the processor though.

-Zadillo

 

Okay, I'm pricing out a system with specific requirements and am doing so in Canada.

MilestonePC:
Z96J
2.16 Ghz CPU
DVDRW (comes with)
2GB RAM (went for the high end stuff, could have saved some money)
100GB 7200 RPM seagate (again, could have saved a chunk of money here)
wireless
Modem (comes with)
NO O/S, will be running Linux
Extended warranty +2 years
$2059 Canuck

Apple:
MacBook Pro 15.4"
2.16 Ghz CPU
DVDRW (comes with, though only single-layer burner)
2GB RAM upgrade (though you'd probably do this after-market)
7200 RPM hard drive upgrade
Modem
Extended warranty
$3678 Canuck

The ASUS works out to 56% of the price of the MacBook Pro with similar specs. The ASUS has a non-underclocked GPU and a higher resolution screen for that price. It's also cheaper enough that you could buy an ASUS _and_ a non-Pro MacBook for the price of a similarly equipped MacBook Pro.

 

When I buy the MBP should I get the 120g at 5400 rpm or the 7200 rpm with 100g? And I am using that student membership deal, it seems it will work, so I can get that 17 inch model for 2500 fully loaded.

 

Depends entirely on what you will be doing with the MacBook Pro. Lots of video editing? Go with the 100GB 7200 RPM drive. Not a lot? Go for the 120 GB 5400 RPM drive.

It's unlikely anything else you have listed would significantly benefit from 7200 RPM but of course, everything would benefit from an extra 20GB of hard drive space.

 

Yamala: The Z96J is only 15", it seems to me he wants a 17". Also, the RAM upgrade you put on there is $300 from the Apple Store. Take that away and you take away a chunk of your price advantage.

As for the programs you wanted Toyota00, Final Cut Studio (can't get Final Cut Pro anymore by itself that I know of) is $699 with the educational discount, although if you buy it at the same time as the computer they may give you a better price. The Adobe Suite costs $1199 normally and I believe the educational discount brings that to $999, but it will not be in Universal Binary, so it will run slow. The Universal edition won't be available until CS3 which january or so.

 

True, the Z96J is 15.4" but so was the MacBook Pro I was pricing out. The 17" MacBook Pro is even more expensive.

And I did point out that the memory upgrade added a fair chunk. You'd save $360 by going after-market but then would need to spend approximately $120 for after-market RAM, plus installation if you weren't comfortable with doing it yourself. So you'd end up saving only $240 (ram upgrade is $360 Canuck), less if you were doing installation yourself. That's significant but there's still $1379 to account for.

 

its not $360 canadian....tigerdirect sells 1gb of ocz pc5400 sodimm ddr2 for $98.99 after $7 rebate.

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2217057&CatId=2268

and you can buy it at the store if your in ontario...markham and etobicoke.

if anything...add your own ocz stick after....."only $240"? ...technically that could buy another 2GB of ram....and that could also buy a 100gb 7200RPM HDD...

but if that $240 were mine...i'd go with a FirmTek SATA ExpressCard/34 adapter and a nice SATA external hdd....that owns any internal hdd and firewire 400 or 800 hdd.

 

Fair enough. I no longer deal with TigerDirect since I caught them fraudulently adding charges weeks after my initial order and full payment. But yes, you can save another $21 or so. But as the Z96J would have the RAM installed for that price, you probably need to add some for installation for a closer apples-to-apples comparison. Except, of course, installing RAM is easy.

My point isn't that the MacBook Pro is exactly a certain amount more than a comparable ASUS Z96J, only that it is considerably more for a similar system to what I want and that this is a strike against the MacBook Pro. May not be a sigificant strike, mind you.

 

Then no one would be buying a Mac right? Because comparable specs mean everything....

No but for those who like Mac OS X and Apple software, it's worth the extra few hours of work.

Now I'm not holding anything against you but it seems as if you are comparing apples to oranges....pc notebooks with XP don't really compare against mac notebooks with OS X. I for one, believe they were made for different purposes and those who want an XP-like experience won't be happy using a mac. For me, I love OS X and the Final Cut Studio along with Shake, great programs for people who live off of what is produced by these applications..that's why I have one...but my XP desktop handles the gaming most of the time.

 

Just an FYI there is terrific deal going on at Dell with 38% off systems. I got a 17" dell precision 2ghz core duo WUXGA for 1670+taxes+shipping with a 3 year warranty.
Dell's inspiron cannot be compared to macs, but for their business liines, its a different story.

Check in the notebook deals section

 

There's simply no doubt in my mind that Mac OS X is the superior operating system to Windows XP. That said, my primary operating system is Ubuntu Linux and OS X isn't a real alternative for me (I'm employed writing Linux software). For VERY MANY PEOPLE, the extra cost of an OS X laptop is more than made up for in OS X itself. Other people believe that MacBooks and MacBook Pros have higher hardware quality than comparable Wintel systems, though this is less clear given that ASUS makes the MacBooks and Quanta (?) makes the MacBook Pros. Heck, I considered it strongly and I would primarily have been running Linux on it.

For other people, though, the added cost is NOT offset by what they get in a MacBook Pro. For me, saving over $1500 while getting a laptop with better graphics capabilities (higher-clocked GPU, higher res screen) was the deciding factor. That was my only point.

My mother is thinking of going to England for an extended period and needs a laptop. It's very unlikely she'll get anything other than a MacBook.

 

My apologies to Toyota00. It seems your thread has been hijacked! LOL! Have your questions been answered? Are there any others we can try to help with?

 

Ahh, I see now. I wasn't factoring in the expensive RAM and HD upgrades, which as you noted are cheaper to do yourself, but even so - I also didn't realize you were configuring the ASUS without XP on it, so that also helps. I also wasn't thinking about the extended warranty costs. So I see how it all comes to that price.

So, yeah, I see how you got such a huge price difference, and that does make sense.

Thanks,

Zadillo

 

Actually, no. Configuring the system the same way on the U.S. store brings the cost to $3297 U.S. At the current exchange rate, that's less than a $20 price difference between the two stores.

Configuring a Z96J as closely as possible to the base 2.16 Ghz MacBook Pro would bring the price to $1731 Canadian. That's without operating system but also without an underclocked GPU but with a higher-res screen, a dual-layer DVDRW burner, and a modem. Compare that to $2799 Canadian for the base 2.16 Ghz MacBook Pro and you can see there's still a SUBSTANTIAL price difference.

 

Yeah, just noticed that and edited my previous post since it was incorrect.

One thing though, is the Z96J really a comparable laptop in terms of Asus's lineup? I was looking at the dimensions of the Z96J, and it seems to be 1.5" thick. It seems like Asus's 1" thin notebooks would be more comparable to the MBP. I was just trying to think about what accounts for the massive price difference aside from the general price premium on MBP's (and the upgrades). It seems like the Z96J is designed more to be a cheaper but high-specced laptop, which the higher end Asus laptops aren't necessarily, but those are probably what the MBP is more comparable with.

It seems like it would be interesting if Apple would make a 1.5" thick MBP (perhaps more comparable in form factor to the old PowerBook's), which seems like it could allow for better heat management and a cheaper price since they wouldn't be trying to cram so much into a 1" chassis.

-Zadillo

 

Yeap, that's a good point. The MBPs are thinner. http://www.milestonepc.com/canada/product_info.php?products_id=1325 claims the Z96J is lighter (5.5 lb compared to 5.6 lb for the MacBook Pro) but that may be without the DVD drive and very likely is without the hard drive. I presume Apple's measurement is including optical drive, hard drive, and RAM.

And yes, the Z96J (and also S96J) is part of their build-to-order line. It's not meant to be the height of fashion, unlike the MBP. And that's not derogatory, there's a lot to be said for the style of the MB and MBP.

In the end, it's a trade-off. The thinness and (possible) lighter weight of the MBP may be a deciding factor. OS X certainly should be for many people. Others aren't willing to settle for such a lower clocked GPU or want a higher res screen. For me, price was the deciding factor. I'm satisfied with the tradeoffs inherent in the Z96J.

 

I would also say, judging by other members comments that the s/z96j would not be as well built as the Apple. Not to say they are junk, they aren't, but the are made of cheaper plastic while the MBP is made of all aluminum.

 

Myth #1
MBP's video cards are significantly crippled.

**yes, they are underclocked, however, they score EQUAL to or even above the Compal HEL80's X1600 which is a 256 Mb X1600.

Myth #2
MBP's are hot. I'm not talking warm all laptops get warm, im refuting the claims of HOT. I played WoW for four hours and the left speaker grille was hardly warm. did I get lucky? maybe, but it was cetrainly a non issue.

 

You are mistaken. The Compal HEL80 doesn't come with an X1600. It comes with an nVidia 7600. MBP X1600s are underclocked approximately 35%.

Unless you are playing games, you aren't going to notice the difference, of course.

 

**edit** you're right mate, for some reason i connecting HEL80 and S96J since theyre essentially the same comp . The 7600 in the HEL and the X160 in the MBP ARE however still stock clocked right around the same 330 vs. 310 I believe and the MBP is only about 100 pts less in 3dMark05, even though the 7600 has twice the VRAM. Don't believe me? ask donald stratton proprietor of powernotebooks, he posted teh stock clocks and 3dmark results on the compal forum.

 

I must admit, I was a little surprised to see this. I'm not sure why the 7600 in the HEL80 would score so low. The benchmarks I've seen with the X1600 when it isn't underclocked have shown approximately a 30% improvement over what ships with the MBP, roughly what I'd expect given the 35% underclocking. For the nVidia 7600 to score at about the same rate as an underclocked X1600 really confuses me. I'd like to see more extensive benchmarks of the HEL80, MBP, and Z96J.

 

Also do not forget, the stock X1600 clocks that you are used to seeing are in the W3J which has a 512 Hyper... the S96j 3dMark scores are about 3300 to 3400 according to Donald as well.

I asked for an explanation as to why a 256mb 7600 only did as well as a 128 MB underclocked X1600 and noone was able to do so.

 

I think the only x1600 that is not underclocked is the Acer 8200's. Everyone else seems to underclock to varying degrees. I for one think ATI and NVidia need to rethink their mobile cards. They are getting hotter each year it seems.

 

OC'd with omegas, the S96J makes right near 4000 3DM05

 

what people are forgetting is 1, the difference in total memory, and 2, difference in ddr2 and ddr3. the 7600go that scores similarly to the x1600 with 256mb (ddr3!) has 512 mb dedicated (not shared). so it makes sense that when you have the x1600 with 128 mb, it will score similarly with the 7600go with 256mb. also, ddr3 memory has higher stock clocks and can oc a lot higher than the ddr2 version. i believe that the 256 mb version of the 7600go may be ddr2, but i am not 100% sure on that.