MBP 2.2 vs. Vaio SZ640

Between these two laptops, what do you suggest. Please don't be biast. In terms of QUALITY, BUILT, what is better? Aside from the OS X vs. Vista.

If you had a choice, what would you take?

 

I would take the MacBook Pro. No biased opinion. Looking at the overall design, the MacBook Pro is more sleek and consistent. The little features such as the backlit keyboard, LED-backlit screen and MagSafe power cord contribute even more to my decision.

Build quality for the MacBook Pro is very good. With that said, it ain't no Thinkpad, but its still very good already.

Quality control is about the same for Apple and Sony, but Apple offers much better customer service than Sony does. If anything goes wrong Apple is more likely to fix it quickly or replace it than Sony would. The customer service experience is much smoother with Apple.

 

If build quality is your main concern, get the Sony.

Aluminum is about as fragile as it gets for a computer case.

 

I'm confused Vaio boi, are you just asking a generalized question because I thought you posted a couple of weeks back that you got a Macbook Pro?

 

He returned it because of a yellow screen and a RAM problem. He couldn't get away from his VAIO-roots .

 

The MBP is better built. The new SZ (not so new anymore, but new compared to the S series) is flimsy, there is no other word for it. The screen is very flexible and feels like it could be ripped off at any moment, the hinge isn't all that great, and although the palm rest is metal (magnesium? not sure) and very sturdy, there was something a while back about electric shocks through it, which seems rather concerning.

The MBP is a solid, tried and true design dating 3 years (from the PB G4!), but still as sexy as ever. Its not perfect, mind you, but its pretty darn good, and much better than the SZ. I personally think that the MB is more solid than the MBP, but that may be because of the weight to size ratio, and the fact that it is slightly thicker, smaller, and is a glossy plastic instead of the aluminum on the MBP.

And if I had a choice, I would take the MBP. More powerful, less overpriced, better looking, thinner, better built, and it runs Windows.

 

I am a new user of MBP so I can at least offer unbiased view on this. I also considered SZ6 before settling for MBP. SZ wins over MBP for its light and small yet tough factor. ~1.7kg is amazingly light for frequent travellers. It has 2 graphics card as well - integrated and dedicated, which is a plus. Carbon fibre is as sexy and attractive as MBP's aluminium body. It has LED screen just like MBP but it is much thinner, making it very attractive yet fragile. One last plus for SZ6 - it comes with more options for configurations, even those latest advances like SSD, TurboMemory and etc.

On the other hand, MBP wins SZ6 with bigger screen size and more powerful graphics. Makes it a better entertainment notebook. Although SZ6 is lighter and smaller, with 15.4" screen size and 1" thickness, MBP is definitely the thinnest and lightest notebook in this mainstream category.

Build quality-wise, both more or less are equal. Just sometimes ppl get unlucky and receive manufacture defects on their machines. In the end, ur decision has to be made based on ur needs and desire. If u need a superb, mobile notebook with lesser entertainment capacity, go for SZ6. If u want something more powerful and bigger screen, go for MBP. They are both desirable and superb machines. Whichever one u choose, u will be satisfied.

 

It's ultra-portable vs full featured here. The Sony is pretty good in terms of specs, and the stamina mode a definite plus.

I did take a very close look at that SZ in the store. Its very small and very light which is cool but I did not like the flimsy feel of the display. They might say it's good to be flexible but frankly I have never found that to be true when it comes to displays. On such a small and expensive machine, I want an ultra-rigid carbon fiber lid, nothing else.

I also think Sony really screwed up design-wise with the latest models, the keyboards are all messed up an asymmetrical, the color choices are weird, and next to the MBP or MacBook they just look like a huge mess. I expected better, esp. for the top end models.

It might be a question of design philosophy but I really dislike that Sony always tries to make their notebooks "look" thinner than they are - form fights function in the Sony notebooks because, clearly, the optimal smallest shape is rectangular. Sony wants to make them look thin so they make the front of the notebook very thin, and the back thick, and paint the underside black so it looks thinner. Overall you end up with a sub-optimal shape for carrying, bags, etc, and the only thing you gain is an optical illusion.

Please note that the only reason I mention Sony design at all is that Sony makes well designed laptops. I wouldn't bother criticizing hopeless cases like Dell or Acer, HP in the same way you wouldn't find a food critic reviewing McDonald's.

Service is a big deal in my book as most laptops I ever owned went to service at least once. And here, Sony has the worst reputation of all manufacturers - comparable to chinese no-name brands. Have heard this many times over the years. Apple has great service.

Quality is comparable.

If small things count, the MBP has a lot of little loving touches - like the lit-up keyboard.

Lately, I am loving the remote control. I am travelling and watching DVDs in the hotel room etc, as I used to do for many years. But this time, I have the tiny, pretty Apple remote which takes the experience to the next level - now I have a real DVD player/TV in my pocket. Plus, I can wow friends with the insanely cool "desktop zooms into the background and media center menu appears"-effect You won't need the remote very often, but when you do, it's just simply awesome.

 

Right now I'm looking at both of these..
Which laptop do you guys think would be more suited for a college student? Apparently most students don't take their laptop to class, so is portability not an issue? The fact that I can take the SZ anywhere (class, library, coffee shop, etc.) and then just plug it into an external display in my dorm sounds more appealing than trying to lug around the 15" MBP.
Any college kids here have any experience w/ this?

 

Most students don't take their laptop to class? Most people who have laptops take them to class to take notes (at least they do around here). Of course if it's a class that doesn't involve note taking then maybe not.

I wouldn't say that a 15" MBP requires "lugging". It's the smallest 15" I've ever seen. If you can carry a 13" MacBook then you should be able to carry a MBP. It's only a bit bigger and slightly thinner. Don't forget about the power cord either! The MBP has a small power unit whereas some other portables have huge bricks. Something to look at.

 

I'm sick of constantly hearing this myth about the MBP size compared to the MB. Here are the actual dimensions:

Macbook
1.08 x 12.78 x 8.92 inches

15 inch Macbook Pro
1 x 14.1 x 9.6 inches

In the world of portable electronics we're usually speaking in terms of millimeters making a big difference. Yet, when comparing the MB and MBP, Macbook Pro owners seem to completely ignore nearly an inch and a half in width and over a half an inch in depth. That is a significant size difference for something that many people carry with them almost everywhere.

This myth about the size difference needs to stop. It's misleading to potential buyers. I know MBP owners find this hard to stomach, but there are some ways that the Macbook is better than the Macbook Pro.

 

Where can I purchase an SZ640? I can't find it on Amazon.

 

Good question. It's not even on Sony's site.

 

The SZ650 is on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VGN-SZ65...0?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1186769428&sr=8-1
Someone on the Sony forum reported 1 day shipping, another person received it in 3 days.

People have been waiting for it to appear on the SonyStyle site for a while, they're probably trying to clean out their SZ4 inventory; it should be up in a week or two.

Here are the full list of specs from the Sony business site:
http://b2b.sony.com/Solutions/subcategory/notebooks/sz-series

 

Where did I even mention the Macbook? I am comparing the portability of the SZ, a 13.3" laptop that weighs less than 4 pounds to a MBP which is a 15.4", 5.6 pound desktop replacement. Both are very different in terms of portability, but the SZ has all the power the MBP has (except for the graphics card) in a much smaller package.

 

Its still slightly thinner (note the slightly qualifier used) and for the screen size disparity, the MBP weighs only 0.3lbs more, about what an optical mouse weighs. The MB is a smaller computer, yes, but it is not much more portable because its weight is so high.

 

I think what Mick was trying to get at is you can stick a 10kg iron bar in a space which is 2" x 2" if it was 1.9" x 1.9" - yet you can't stick a 1kg aluminium bar which is 3" x 3" into the same area.

I'm annoyed that the MBP won't fit into one of the cheaper Crumpler messenger bags, but the Macbook will, which means I'd have to fork out more for a bigger bag, which looks worse and is uglier, all else being equal, and the smaller unit even 2kg heavier, I might not mind it.

However, all else is NOT equal, so I'm still getting an MBP.

 

There's more that goes into what makes a computer portable than weight. You're taking the one dimension that fits your point of view, and saying that that makes it nearly as portable.

In portable terms, the MBP takes up quite a bit more physical space. The fact remains, not only is a Macbook physically smaller, it is also lighter, if only by a little bit. Lighter is lighter. Smaller is smaller. The numbers don't lie.

 

Wow, that VAIO VGN-SZ650N looks kind of hot. Hmm... it's really not fair to compare this to MBP though, it's more comparable to MB or better yet the Dell M1330.

 

Thats like having a Civic weigh 6000lbs, comparing it to the 6700lb Hummer H2, and saying smaller is smaller, lighter is lighter.

Yes, I agree that the MBP takes up more space, but the fact remains that the MacBook is disproportionately heavy. Take a comparably priced, comparably equipped XPS M1330: 4.0lbs, a full 1.1lbs lighter than the MB. Sony SZ: more expensive, but with dedicated graphics, and again, over a pound lighter, and close to 1.5lbs difference when you get the LED backlit premium model. Asus W7J/S, again with dedicated graphics, but 0.9lbs lighter; the Z35F (with integrated graphics), a full pound lighter. By the same token, the MBP is disproportionately light, being a full pound less than the average 15.4" notebook.

I will restate my original statement, with an added qualifier:
To anyone who is carrying their notebook around in a bag, the MBP is nearly as portable. Better?

 

You and I just aren't going to see eye-to-eye on this one.

 

I bought MBP 2 weeks ago. Have to say it is kind of a nice machine - but now I would go for Sony (SZ or FZ model) if Sony would have more choice in screen resolutions (for example 1680x1050 on FZ model).
The BIG problem with MBP is HEAT. It is fu**ing HOT - you can not have it on the lap. That is the first notebook that I have and I can not have it on my lap while sitting on a couch. I had plenty of Sony laptops (A180, S380, 3xPictureBooks, FS180) and I was completely happy with all of them. No complaints at all.

 

First of all, yes that is an issue with the portable Macs. But secondly, on a side note, most notebooks are getting hotter nowadays as well as graphics cards and processors run hotter. So its not just a Mac issue.

But, it is true that Apple designed the MacBook and MacBook Pro for passive cooling rather than using loud, strong fans. To keep the MB and MBP quiet, Apple decided to let the notebook cool itself through its materials rather than having lots of vents and noisy fans.

 

Passive coolling? With the Macbook's plastic exterior? With the MBP's processor itself running hotter than normal? The SZ is designed to be much cooler.

With the SZ you are getting a silent, highly portable machine with the power of the MBP; that is what mick and I are trying to convey. If you do heavy graphics work/gaming, go with the MBP. For all other purposes the SZ is a superior machine as you can hook up an external display when it's sitting at your desk or take the thing with you wherever (class, work, airports... your lap).

 

I can't speak for the other machines you've listed, but as having owned a few Picturebooks myself, I can comment on those.

It's a bit of an unfair comparison, the Picturebook and MBP. The Picturebooks used low power CPUs, that were built for better battery life, and by design, ran cool. The MBP has a high horse power CPU, and a high end GPU. If you're going for that kind of power, you have to expect a lot of heat.

 

Really, I don't know a damn thing about the Sony, other than, having owned several Sony computers, I do know they have exceptional build quality. For me the SZ640, or whatever the hell the number was, is an unknown quantity. I literally know nothing about it.

What I do know, is the build quality of current Apple notebooks is sub-par. Because of this I have a hard time recommending them to anyone. So, I know that Sony builds sturdy machines. I know, currently, Apple does not. I told the OP to get the Sony based solely on that.

Is the SZ superior? Hell if I know, but I'd be willing to bet it can take more of a beating than a MBP.

 

I never made any point about that. I just wanted to give a "heads-up" to alenas that yes heat is an issue and I explained why it is hotter than other laptops. I don't know what point you're making...

 

Sony quality has sharply dropped since the PenM days. The FS/FJ/FE lines were complete trash as are the N and CR series. The C and FZ are better, but still nowhere near the level that Sony was at back in the day. The SZ is inferior to the S in build quality by a long ways. Apple quality has not changed since the G4 days, the MBP is using the exact same case and thus has the exact same build quality, and the MB has better build quality than the iBook G4.

And I definitely would not put any money at all on the SZ surviving any kind of beating at all...There was a thread in the Sony forums about a guy dropping his SZ from chest height on accident, and the screen was completely gone - the lid provides no protection whatsoever.

 

That's a shame. Sounds like Sony's gone down hill. Like I said, I really didn't know anything about the SZ, and based my opinion more on the MBP than anything.

Well, I say back to the drawing board. Seeing as the only opinion I've heard of the SZ is negative, I can't recommend either.

I can't agree with you on G4 iBook build quality being lower than the Macbook. I've owned several iBooks. Those things were tough as nails. Apple has gone way too thin on the Macbook plastics.

 

Oh yea, and Sony support is useless, and the repair center is pathetically incompetent, whereas Apple's support team seems to be pretty responsive as far as I have seen.

And with the iBook vs. MacBook build quality, you may be right, since the iBook G4 that I used was pretty beat up, not treated well at all. The MB is still MUCH better than the SZ though.

 

Sorry to get back to the Apple heat thing.

Where do they exactly get hot (MacBook and MBP)? Just in the inside with the fan cooling them a bit? Or do really have both models heat issues on the palmrests and on the bottom side of the notebook? Does it get really hot on the lap or is this just fantasy? Or is it only when the CPU gets over 60 or 70 % usage?
This would be my first MacBook or MBP...and I'm really unsure if I should get one or wait for some other notebook.

 

They are powerful computers housed in extremely thin enclosures, and also, they get hot because of the Apple design, which uses the bottom of the case as a passive heat dissipater and an integral part of the cooling system.

 

My MBP gets pretty hot on the underside. No gaming with laptop in lap!

For typing, it's OK - I have this thing sitting on my knees as I am typing this and had it there for the last hour. Be sure to not put any laptops over where the family jewels are or suffer the consequences. But that's true for all laptops. My Acer gets pretty hot on the underside as well, I have to say.

The heat dissipation design of the MBP is obviously to suck air in via speaker grilles and keyboard (top case) and blow it out the back, there are very large vents cleverly hidden in the screen hinge. The effect is that the lower back side of the MBP gets the warmest. Hand rests and top case are totally fine since the hot air is directed away from them.

And the feet of the MBP are extremely short so when it's sitting on a table the underside will get hot.

The SZ looks like one of those missing items in Apple's line-up and as such isn't directly comparable to any Mac.

It's like a black MacBook with optional dedicated graphics (but $500 more), or, alternatively, like a mini MacBook Pro with smaller screen. There is no use comparing the two on features/price because there is no direct match - one form factor / combination of features will be best for you and that's what you go with. Unless Sony support scares you off it and from all I hear that would be pretty reasonable

I'd personally take a black MacBook if I could live with a 13" screen. The only reason I have a MBP is that I need every inch of screen real estate but at the same time can't imagine shlepping a 17" monster around.

I'll make a little decision matrix for you:
- If you need both 13" and dedicated gfx => Sony!
- If you need 13" screen but no dedicated gfx => black MacBook
- If you need dedicated gfx but don't mind 15" screen => MacBook Pro
- If you just plain like Sony => Sony!
- If you want dedicated gfx, 13" screen, OS X, Apple support and quality => Sorry, you are screwed. No such thing. Wait for the 12" MacBook Pro. Though that could take forever

 

Thanks for your answer! Does it make a difference if it's a old MBP or a new one (Santa Rosa)? Or if it's the 2.2 or the 2.4 GHz? Or maybe even if it's a 5400 or a 7200rpm harddisk?

p.s. I will be in Thailand in November/December...that's one reason to have a notebook until then.

 

I don't think the HD makes a difference. 2.2 vs 2.4 should also have a pretty similar heat envelope. My 7200 RPM HD is on 40 degrees right now, left palm rest slightly warm.

The power saving settings and charging the laptop makes a difference. I have it set so it runs at maximum performance when charging, and on max. battery savings when unplugged. The latter is the coolest mode to operate, the former the hottest - not only does the CPU and other stuff run at full speed, the charging process itself also heats up the laptop. In this mode, having the laptop on the knees is a bit uncomfortable.

When I notice the machine getting hot I just prop it with a book or whatever other thing suitable for propping up I find.

Definitely give me a buzz if you pass by Chiang Mai or Pai in northern Thailand sorry couldn't resist the pun but I mean it

 

I went to the Apple store a few minutes ago to compare the (white) MacBook and the 15.4" MBP.

Could it be that the build quality of the MacBook is better than the one of the MBP? I only had a few minutes to "play" with them, maybe the MBP looks a bit fragile because of its size...don't know.
What are your experiences?

@orthorim
This year we will be in Bangkok and Koh Tao. Maybe next time we'll go up to the north

 

Two things.


1. The Macbook is a bit more durable that the MBP. The MBPs aluminum case is prone to bending and warping.

2. The Macbook case isn't as durable as it should be. You would think that the Macbook plastics would be able to take a pounding, but unfortunately, it seems that Apple went on the cheap for the plastics. Over time, the Macbook casing starts to cracks for no apparent reason, mainly around the venting, ports, and along the front edge.

So, what it comes down to is this. The Macbook is a pretty great computer. If you can live with the possibility that your case may start to crack, without any abuse, you'll be very happy with it. Case cracking aside, it's probably the best computer I've ever owned. Unfortunately, I'm not one of those types who can live with a cracked case.

If you want to know more about this problem, check out the Macrumors forums and do a search on Macbook case cracks. I'm not the only person who's had this problem.

 

Thanks for these information!

Is there a difference between the old and the new MacBooks? Or a difference between the colors? The black one is slightly more expensive (with a 160 instead of a 120 GB harddisk)

 

First off, mick, I don't doubt that its happened before, but once again there's also lots of people who've used their MacBooks since it was released and have no problems with it. Just a note to buzzman that not all MacBooks will be "defective".

And to answer your new question, buzzman, cosmetically there's been no change in the MacBook since its first release. The black MacBook does have a price premium; even if you configure the white MacBook with the same specs the black MacBook is still more expensive.

 

I previously owned a Sony notebook (wasn't an SZ, but a 13.3' model with Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8ghz, 2gb RAM, 160gb HD) but I took it back to Costco after about a month of owning it. The reason being was that it made a very annoying high pitch sound through the speakers when running on battery that could only be silenced if you plugged in head phones. That and the exhaust vent was on the right side of the computer right next to my hand which was extremely annoying when using a wireless mouse. =)

I have also used my friends Sony SZ series (same black carbon fiber case but a little older) which didn't have the two problems mentioned above. I thought it was a great notebook, extremely portable, and pretty well built. I'm not a big fan of how thin the screen is though. It seems like one slight hit from the side is all it needs.

Just recently (less than a week ago) I purchased a Macbook Pro (15.4', 2.2ghz, 2gb RAM, 120gb HD). Before that point I was really considering a 14.1' HP DV2500 custom built off Costco.com, or one of those Sony SZ series. After fighting a long mental battle of which notebook to purchase, I settled with the Macbook Pro. Originally, it wasn't even one of my options because the screen size was too big and I personally don't like how the Macbooks look (friend of mine has one which I use often - great little machine). After visiting the Apple store (a few times), I realized the MBP is so damn thin that it convinced me that I could settle for a 15.4'.

Anyways, some of the reasons I went with the MBP:
-Size. For a 15.4', I don't think you'll find one smaller.
-Weight. Again, for it's size it's still very light!
-Design. Enough said. Simple and clean - just how I like it.
-Features:
--The auto backlit keyboard and auto-adjusting screen dim based on ambient light adds a real nice tough. In reality though, the backlit keyboard isn't that useful. The screen gives off enough lighting to easily see the keyboard. Still looks cool.
--The mag-safe charger. I don't know if Apple patent this design but I really hope every notebook uses this in the future. This feature alone would almost convince me to buy a MBP even if it didn't have anything else, lol. That and the size of the charger itself is just awesome.
--Best keyboard I've ever used. Very soft and quiet.
-Battery. I get about 3-4 hours under normal usage. Enough said. I have yet to find a 15.4', or even 14.1' PC notebook that can provide that battery life without some huge bulge (so to speak) coming out the bottom or rear.
-Noise. It's basically silent.
-Display. Simply beautiful. They definitely don't put cheap screens in these.
-Freedom. And by that I mean the freedom to run any OS you want. OS X, Windows, or Linux.

I use it at home and school and find it pretty portable. It is a bit tall, but the width and thickness are not an issue. Actually, if it wasn't for the Zeroshock notebook sleeve, the MBP would fit perfectly in my backpack but with the Zeroshock sleeve, it's a tight fit. I really wish the Zeroshock fit the MBP better. It's a little too big for it. I wasn't planning to run OS X much and installed Windows with Boot Camp and run it off Parallels as well, but the only time I've launched Windows it to see if it works. One thing about Macs is that Apple controls the hardware and designs OS X around it, so everything really does "just work". As for heat, it does get very hot. It seems like they just have the CPU mounted against the bottom of the case to act as a heatsink because it gets really hot down there if the computer is workin'. ;P Also, I did notice a little bit of screen flex. Not a huge issue but just something to note.

Other then that, I absolutely love the MBP and glad I made the choice. I've always been a PC user and this is my first Apple product (not an iPod fan, would never buy an Apple desktop, etc), but the MBP is on its own level when it comes to notebooks. So anyways, there's my two cents. Good luck with the purchase!

 

Actually, I think the MB feeling more stable than the MBP is at least in part due to the fact that its smaller, and thus flexes less. The plastic being stronger than aluminum is probably a factor too.

 

All I can base it on is my own experience, which includes two spontaneously cracking bottom cases. Personally, I think there are a lot of people who have cracks in their Macbooks and don't even know it. It takes some inspection to notice.

I like Apple computers, but I don't feel that it's my duty to convert people to the Apple way. I feel online forums are a place for people to learn. I'm giving people the information I have from my experiences. What they do with that information is up to them.

Out of curiosity, Sam, how many times have you given your Macbook plastics a good inspection?

 

Well, I don't have much to complain about; I got my MacBook for free . It was the prize of a web design contest I won. I got this MacBook in April and I did a check right away and I checked it a while ago. Granted, the build quality ain't perfect (the frame around the screen isn't perfectly flush against the screen), but nothing "fatal" like a crack or a dent or anything.

 

Sounds like you got a pretty good one. I'd keep an eye on it, though. Apple will take care of it under warranty.

Good luck, though. When you get a good one, the Macbook is a hell of a machine. I wish mine held up.

 

Plastic is not stronger than aluminum. In this case it is smaller, and lighter, and more narrow. Thus the rigidity factor make it seem somewhat more sturdy. The Aluminum Apple uses is the same grade used in making aircraft. It is also Anodized which makes it resistant to surface occlusions (take your fingernail and see if you can scratch the MBP...you cannot)

Would you like your flight from NY to LA on a plane make from the plastic used in the macbook? Me thinks not

 

Aluminum is aluminum. It's a soft metal. It bends easily.

I've seen enough bent up Powerbooks, Nanos, MBPs, and Minis, to know there's nothing magical about Apple's aluminum.