MBA and MBP lifespan

Hi,

I was just wondering how long you would expect a MBA or MBP to last before it breaks or stop being powerful enough?

I was also wondering if the old C2D model MBAs are better or worse made then the latest models?

Thanks for any help!

 

I recommend reading through this excellent review at AnandTech to get a better understanding of MBA performance and how it compares to the previous versions:

AnandTech - The 2011 MacBook Air (11 & 13-inch): Thoroughly Reviewed

 

Thanks but I was thinking more in terms of build quality and endurance of the machine itself rather then absolute power.

 

I think 3-4 years should be average, but then you could be unlucky and get a lemon for some reason. You might actually lengthen the lifespan of your computer if you are able to swap out components, like I have this lenovo that is close to three years old, and except for the matte screen that I swapped for the glossy one because I found this bright spot in the middle of the screen annoying in word, the computer has worked like a champ.

I know my professor has a Macbook, which was the first intel model that came out in 2006 and it still works even though its white trackpad has taken a beating as it is not white anymore.

 

I think 3-4 years is a reasonable expectation.

I purchased my MBP in late 2008. Aside from an odd ticking/resonance when it's cold, it runs well. I'm replacing the hard drive on Monday, so maybe that'll fix the ticking/resonance. I think it's either that or the cooling fans. But for the most part, everything still feels solid. This is one real advantage of the aluminum unibody frame. There's no creak or flex in the chassis as it ages.

Periodically opening the bottom to clean out the internals with a can of compressed air is highly recommended. It makes a huge difference in heat dissipation, and heat is the enemy of longevity.

For what it's worth, my mother's MacBook Pro's motherboard died at four years of age.

 

When new, the metal body is shiny and nice with a little friction. How will it hold up over the years? Scratches, wear on palmrest and keyboard etc?

 

that depends how you treat it...

its pretty common to get scratches on the bottom of the machines, as they slide around on surfaces at times.

I have a 5 and a half year old Macbook Pro, and I took care of it.. it basically has no scratches or dents or anything besides a few minor scratches on the bottom of the case from surfaces. Other than that, the metal is the same as the day it was bought.

 

I expect to get 4 good years out of my MBP before I really need to replace it. It will probably become outdated, technology wise, in two years or maybe even next year when Ivy Bridge comes out. It is hard predicting how long technology will remain on top like that simply because Apple uses Intel processors and they are always constantly evolving. New chipsets, new CPUs, new IGPs, smaller footprints, less power consumption, less heat production, etc.

I would not worry about the sturdiness of a C2D MBP (assuming it is a late 201 model) vs the new ones simply because they are the same casing and everything, the only aspects that changed are the internal components. It wasn't a complete re-design. The slate 2010 introduction was a re-design from the previous MBA whereas now Apple just updated the internal specs. Just like the 2011 MBP compared to the 2010 models, they are the same except for their internal hardware (and maybe a few other small differences but the casing is all the same).

 

If you take care of it, I don't see why it wouldn't last 10+ years(Ancient, but still running)

 

Thanks everyone! but do you think that a macbook pro now would be too underpowered even for simple tasks in 4 yrs time?

Also, when do you think that apple will release a 13" version of MBA ir MBP with better graphics (if ever) - I know this is unrelated but I wasnt sure where else to post.

 

no one knows for certain

 

Depends what you mean by "simple tasks." I can still to email, facebook, word processing on my Powerbook G4 (which was purchased in 2004 and is still running), and I can still watch DVDs smoothly on it, though when I do YouTube or iTunes videos, the frame rate isn't so great.

With the MacBook Air's latest generation, the 13" MacBook Pro has a bit of an identity crisis. I would think that the next-gen 13" MacBook Pro would have a discrete GPU to better distinguish it from the 13" MBA, but I don't pretend to be able to predict what Steve Jobs thinks is a good idea.

 

Well, I have a a very powerful laptop that runs any game I want, but I am 2 yrs into a 6 year degree and not having a portable laptop that I can take in everyday is starting to bug me. What I am thinking is that getting a good laptop with good warranty - like a macbook pro - would mean that I get a laptop that will fulfill all of my needs until I finish my degree. However, I need this laptop to still be able to do essay writing, HD film watching and internet stuff for the remainder of my degree (i.e. 4 yrs)

This is what I was wondering, because if so I might not buy one for a month or two so I can see how the ground lies.

 

It's a computer. It won't last any less longer than any other laptop should. A decade from now it should run. The question is more about the software you use and how fast you want it to be, you know?

My '05 Dell core duo runs office and web browsing just fine. Even photoshop runs well. But video transcoding takes many hours longer than a modern i7 can do the task in. Stuff like 1080p video is hit or miss.

So it will depend on the state of software 5 years from now relative to your software wants/needs that will dictate how long the machine lasts you. But it is much more likely to be sold or retired than it ever dying.

 

That was a great answer, thanks.

 

Also remember technology now is far superior than what it was 5 years ago. So 5 years ago if you bought a laptop and it had a Core Duo which would have been insufficient for your everyday tasks two years later. But nowadays with quad core in laptops you can get more from a laptop bought now then say a new laptop back 5 years ago.

 

But quad-core really wouldn't help with watching a video now, would it? That is more of an internet connection + video card thing.

 

Right, it is more something that relies on the video card especially now that they have support for hardware decoding (and even hardware encoding with the HD 3000). Still, a graphics cards capable of decoding 1080p videos now will be able to decode 1080p videos until the notebook breaks down. There isn't something that is going to magically change unless the movie industry starts thinking we need content above 1080p. So that will all depend on the movie industries and whatnot, it has nothing to do with the actual inability of the hardware but rather changing standards.

In all honesty, a modern system such as a 13", 15", or 17" MBP will be more than capable of handling basic tasks in the coming years. In fact, that is what many people do with their older computers. They buy a pretty good system, use it for 2-3 years, and then retire it to essentially "netbook" status and only do basics tasks on it until the computer won't turn on anymore.

I purchased a 13" MBP and fully expect it to be fine with more advanced stuff (particularly MATLAB and AutoCAD) for at least another year (2012), AutoCAD functionality might drop off but MATLAB will still be good for another 2 years (2013), and other tasks such as office productivity, media playback, and just generally surfing the internet will last until the notebook stops working (2015+). By then I will have a job (I will probably have a permanent position in 2013 after getting my MS) and already be looking at my next computer system. My 2011 MBP's goal is to get me comfortably through graduate school with my MBA and MS (I finished my MBA earlier this year and am already starting my MS which will be my last degree). I will be happy if it does that. Then I will probably retire it to just a media PC to remain docked to one of my HDTVs while I upgrade to something new.

 

I have an early 2008 17 inch MBP (Penryn) and it still does all that I need it to do and performance is fine. I use it for work and sometimes watching videos. I upgraded it to 4 GB of RAM and added an ExpressCard SSD and I run VMs, do programming, look at stocks, log into the office, read email, etc. with it. So far, Apple hasn't given me a good enough reason to replace it. A 17 inch MacBook Air might do that or a 15 inch with HD resolution.

I can see myself using this for another couple of years in terms of meeting my needs.

My daughters 15 inch MacBook Pro is a little over four years old and she is still fine with it.

 

Break up? Usually the fan and battery requires replacing after 3 years, the screen after 4 years of use.... platter hdd around 4 to 5 years.... so you have to weigh up the repair cost and the cost of downtime/servicing versus purchasing a new laptop.

 

I have an 11-year-old Dell Inspiron 4000. The battery doesn't hold a charge (old NiCad) and I had to replace the disk but it still runs. Never had to change a fan on a laptop and I have others that are quite old. The battery on my MacBook Pro seems to be fine after 3.5 years - I hope that it stays that way for a long time.

 

The reason why i bought the MBP with 6750m is because of this exact reason of lifespan. Ivy bridge will be a shrink as was Westmere. What did it bring to the table that Nehalem had not except for some minor stuff.

Now the next real change will be Haswell which has more to do with GPU than CPU but CPU power will be increased. Here is where Sandy bridge dual cores will seem bit under powered when compared to Haswell's. It will not be until Broadwell that our Quad Sandy bridge would seem old and ineffective.



EDIT: Oppps posted too quick seems people were talking about the build/durability than the hardware

 

In terms of durability, your battery probably won't last 4-5 years. However, they can be replaced rather easily, although they are not supposed to be user-replaceable... Another common "cause of death" is hard drive failure. If you are looking for longevity, go for solid state storage. People who knows nothing will scare you saying that SSD has limited write cycle, and yes they do, but it's really not something a normal users needs to worry. If you are lucky, a spinning harddrive can last a long time, but my experience with spinning harddrive is that their death is rather unpredictable. They can be working fine today, and die of a stroke tomorrow.

In terms of performance... that's really hard to say. Sure, given the high performance of Sandy Bridge processors today, your MBP/MBA will definitely be fine doing what you are doing today 5 years later. But will you be doing the same thing on the computer 5 years later as you are today? Probably not. Software development goes hand to hand with hardware development. With improvement in CPU raw power, software developers can write softwares with features that were not possible before. It is childish to think that the hardware requirement of softwares would stay the same, while hardware simply get faster and faster. Another thing to note is that, OS X is a 10-year old operating system. It is very likely that you will see a new version of Mac OS in the next 5 years, and that would definitely change the hardware requirement for running certain softwares too.

 

All the parts within the MBP (like any other laptop) have different lifespans. Generally speaking, the parts most susceptible to failure are the LCD power inverter, the HDD, and possibly the fan. The battery will also wear out over time.

Granted the MBA will probably last longer due to the SSD it uses, but ultimately the longevity of any laptop depends on the quality of the parts, the care taken by the user and the tasks being performed.

 

typing on a first generation intel macbook pro early 2006 model.

The "3" key sticks and the "left arrow/home" key doesn't work at all. The inverter board failed and had to be replaced, and the screen had to be replaced after being stepped on by a co-worker.

The hard drive needed to be replaced after being kicked off a 4 foot high night table onto a hardwood floor.

The case is beat up real nice, and the top of the case doesn't fit the bottom like it should (leaving a gap)

The power plug needed to be replaced because of the angle of the wire and the mag safe charger... the Battery doesn't hold a charge beyond 30minutes.

I can't use adobe CS5 on it, but CS2 seems to work just fine. It can still play videos, netflix, dvds, etc.

It's my wife's computer and she uses it to surf the internet and do things wives do on the computer.

 

I will be a first-time Mac owner very soon (awaiting my MBA). I am actually more worried about Apple's support for legacy hardware.

I know my original iphone was only allowed to install up to iOS3. And I heard snow leopard stops supporting any hardware prior to the Intel switch.

Can anyone give me a good idea as to how long I can expect apple to continue providing software update on my MBA? Thanks.

 

Apple will continue to support the Intel platform for a while now though some are theorizing that they are going to switch to ARM here in ~5 years (which is the soonest something like this will happen if it ever does). Apple stopped supporting legacy hardware with Snow Leopard as that could only be installed on Intel system. Lion actually narrows that down further by only supporting 64-bit Intel Processors (Core 2 Duo and above). That is the last major change for OS X unless Apple starts supporting ARM in 2016. So, given that Lion came out in 2011 and it doesn't support the first MacBook Pro models released in 2006, I would say you have a good 5 years of software support from Apple if they ever stop supporting Intel hardware. You will likely have a new primary system by then anyway and your MBA will be downgraded to a secondary "give to the wife or kids" setup where it won't really matter if anything happens to it.

The technology industry is always changing so you have to take that into account. Apple is also hard to predict and will do whatever they want to do regardless of customer opinion.

 

Thanks. Apple's legacy hardware support just seems very arbitrary. Not that I want to use the same machine for 5 years, but it's nice to know it will still be supported by then.

Actually, Microsoft is starting to do what Apple has been doing for years. My X41t can't run windows movie maker nor is it allowed to do video chat in live messenger. Minor stuff but annoying nontheless.

 

That is what happens when you take a blanket software approach. Apple has always been a hardware and software company designing each to go hand-in-hand. As the hardware changes, the software will also change to keep up with what they are designing. Past hardware support becomes less of a priority than getting a new OS up and running on the newer hardware.

Microsoft takes the whole blanket software design approach as they have always done: they design their software to run on a larger spectrum of hardware so long as the manufacturers of said hardware provide some type of driver support. With Windows 7 being 32-bit and 64-bit, it can run on everything from a Pentium 4 all the way up to new Sandy Bridge processors (again, so long as proper drivers are provided). Newer hardware comes out and MS supports it but they slowly drop legacy support simply because they focus solely on developing the software. They don't have to worry about pushing out a new notebook along with a new OS, they can just focus on the OS and work with all the different manufacturers.

I think MS will start to weed out hardware support with Windows 8. They are still supporting 32-bit architecture but I wouldn't be surprised if some features are taken out. On a completely side and ironic note, it is funny that MS is adding more functionality to Windows that was taken from Windows Phone 7 just as Apple added some iOS function to OS X Lion. I am not saying that MS stole this idea from Apple, it is just funny that the whole mobile experience is being brought into a desktop environment for both platforms.

 

My late 2006 Macbook Pro is still alive and kicking, and actually in decent shape. I haven't replaced anything on it, which means the battery doesn't hold much of a charge and the HDD is probably on its last legs, but otherwise the machine is fine.

It does feel a bit unbearably slow to use at this point, but I keep it around just to have a Mac if I need it anyways.

 

I still have the laptop in my sig it is now 3 years old. Its not a better build mac book it is a cheap plastic laptop.

Things I have noticed, a small increase in ram after about 2 years will make the laptop last and run faster. The hard drive may fail after 2 years so upgrading from stock 5400 rpm drive to a 7200 rpm drive will make the laptop run so much faster. The battery on the laptop do not expect it to last more than 2 years as well.

For the best longevity make sure you skip the intel intergrated and get a dedicated graphics card for the laptop this will be the most important thing this is what will determine if you will be able to watch the next generation stuff on your computer....


all in all most stock mbp are pretty ready for the future ( as long as you stay above the 13in range ).

 

I am considering upgrading the HD on my 3+ YO MBP as I need more space and it would be a cheap upgrade and I don't see myself buying a new one anytime soon (because the old one is so good). I just need to find a place to do the swap. A TB HD + the SSD would be very nice. 5400 is fine with me as most of the work is done on the SSD. My battery is original and the laptop will run for two hours on a charge.

 

To date, SSDs don't seem to have superior longevity to conventional HDDs, although it's hard to say is results were skewed by rejected memory chips being used in consumer SSDs. My gut tells me that the proprietary SSD in the MacBook Air uses higher quality chips than some of the highly discounted, common form factor SSD drives that tend to fail.

As far as non-upgradeable RAM, I also have mixed emotions, especially the base 11" MBA that ships with only 2GB. No, I haven't ever had an issue with corrupted RAM, but I'd hate to throw away $1,000 notebook over such a trivial issue.

Personally, I'm not entirely convinced by the Macbook Air, and probably won't be until Apple makes the move from Intel CULV CPUs to ARM processors. I do think that Apple has devoted a lot of resources and time to making the MBA a success, sticking with the concept while the PC manufacturers threw in the towel, and it will take a lot more than $300 million from Intel to make the Windows based "Ultrabook" concept successful when the MBA already has that market locked down.

Basically, if I needed exceptional longevity, I'd go for something that's upgradeable, and that means the Macbook Pro.

 

Switching to ARM (which won't happen until at least 2015 if it ever actually occurs) is going to fix problems associated with bad RAM and SSD chips how? Also, PC manufacturers definitely haven't thrown in the towel when it comes to ultra portable notebooks. If anything, the MBA lit a fire under their butts and they are starting to come out with models. Dell, Sony, and Samsung have all come out with ultra portable notebooks to compete with the MBA. That is lot more than in 2008 when the MBA was all by its lonesome. The ultrabook releases are also going to come out soon and they too will go right up against the MBA especially when manufacturers are going to offer 13" models for $1000 or less which will essentially undercut Apple.

I am not sure what all of that has to do with how long an Apple product lasts but whatever.

 

Ditto on a 12 yr old Dell Inspiron 7000 that cost 4k but it is silly slow now & belongs in a museum. Anything I've bought in the last 5 years works fine for most tasks, obviously video encoding or gaming are more taxing.

MBA or MBP with SSD should hold up well but I wouldn't count on Apple to support it forever. Hopefully swapping its battery in 3-5 years won't be an issue.

Assuming the cloud computing & faster broadband trends continue, some processing may be done remotely making for longer lasting devices at least for webcentric tasks.

The MBA 10 years from now may still look somewhat modern but I expect more Asus Transformer like devices (single or even dual detachable tablet screens)..Thoughts?

 

my 5 yr old 2006 laptop with a core duo 1.6ghz, 4gb ram (even if proc only supports 32bit memory) can still run all the modern apps released till now. For simple to intermediate tasks it can run; it will just finish slower compared to the latest hw.

but since an MBA is not really upgradeable; I think the chances of one of the key HW failing and not being able to repair it (without costing a fortune) is riskier than that of a MBP. You should either upgrade every 2-3yrs or once the extended applecare runs out (3yrs).

 

Curious what you would expect to fail (beyond the battery charge cycles)?

Do people think AppleCare is really worth it these days?

 

AppleCare is worth it if you take your MacBook Air/Pro with you to a lot of places and also if you live near an Apple Store. I plan on purchasing AppleCare later this year for my MBP I picked up in February. You don't have to buy it right away with whatever Mac you want as you can take up to one year to buy it. I suggest buying AppleCare if you live near an Apple Store as that gives you an opportunity to take your Mac in and actually talk to someone face to face (unless you buy it through Best Buy and purchase their Black Tie extended warranty). Apple Store experiences tend to be much, much better than working with some call center (in a country that will not be named) especially if you are nice to the Apple employee.

Personally I think that a MBA has just as much of a chance as failing compared to a MBP and vice versa. Some people have issues with the RAM and SSD essentially being attached (and not connected) to the logic board. The RAM is actually soldered in there while the SSD is connected using some unknown hookup that looks like a miniaturized version of SATA III. Both the MBA and MBP have non-user replaceable batteries in them and that is going to be the first thing to die anyway. So either way, a MBP or MBA is going to cost quite a bit for its first repair unless one buys AppleCare.

 

The MBP will still be able to run every simple program from now until 10+ years. Browsing the web, office applications, etc... are never going to require a better computer than a MBP.

They might come out with a new operating system, maybe transfer over to 128-Bit interface (brainstorming here), maybe everything will go 3D, maybe it require more graphical power, etc. In that case, the MBP might not be able to run those things, but a MBP today will always be able to run the office applications, web browser, etc. that is out today, and these kinds of programs will probably never require more of a computer than they do right now.

The only thing that would prevent a MBP from running these things would be it breaking and not being repaired, but as long as it is running, it would do every day things just fine.

 

So which is it? You made a rather bold statement that can already be proven incorrect with the 10 year timeline. Office 2011 requires a Mac with an Intel processor yet Apple was still pushing out PPC systems 6 years ago. Right now iWork 09 can be installed on a system with at least a 500MHz PPC G4 processor but Apple will likely change that with the next release of iWork. That still doesn't help anyone who specifically requires MS Office (which many people do) as a 10 year old Mac (even a high end 10 year old Mac) would not be able to run it.

Saying that a 2011 MBP will be able to run programs for 10+ years from now is way too bold. First, no one can ever predict that type of timeline especially since technology is evolving. What happens if Apple switches to ARM in 2015 and stops supporting x86-64 the following year? There goes that whole 10 year time as it was reduced to 5 years. Although it is true that a 2011 MBP will be able to run any current program and be able to do so for a long time, there is no way that anyone can say anything about future programs especially using such a large time frame of 10 years.

 

both of those statements say the same thing. They also do not say machines made 10 years ago still run office apps today... The poster was only referring to current machines and 10 years from now.

And anyways... if Apple switches to ARM 5 years from now... the MBP will still be able to run non-ARM office then, just like machines from 10 years ago can still run office apps today Assuming you need Office 2011 to do anything is a big mistake... you don't even need MS Office period, but older versions still work fine.

10 years from now if Apple is using ARM CPUs, your best bet is to not buy Macs anymore anyways.

 

kornchild2002 said it for you. I agree with him.

HDD can fail. Memory can fail. Both can fail if your very unlucky.

It is just harder to find replacement parts for the MBA thus making applecare more attractive; they will replace the parts for you.

If I were to buy a MBP; I wouldn't be as much willing to spend on applecare since I can easily find those parts in the market. But if I have a MBA; I'd buy extended applecare just to save me the trouble of having to scavenge the net for replacement parts. Something is bound to happen within 3 yrs to the laptop; especially since I would be taking it with me everywhere.

 

I must have read it differently as, to me, it looked like they were saying that a notebook made today will be able to run office programs 10 years from now. Given that we cannot predict the future, I used the example of machines made 10 years ago trying to run office programs today. Is that not OK to do? I know they were referring to modern Macs running in the year 2021 but I thought my example was ample enough to show that one should not make such a bold statement as we never know what the future of computing holds and the whole 10 year timeframe is a rather large leap. I used the only examples I could come up with (ie computers that are 10 years old now) to show that the 10 year number should not be used for a valid refrence since it certainly isn't holding up today.

Why is it a big mistake to assume that anyone needs a modern version of Office? For example, I need to run Office under OS X, period. It has to be Office because my work computers are all running Office 2007 and both iWork and OpenOffice mess with the formatting of many Word, Excel, and PowerPoint 2007 files. I also run a series of macros in many of my Excel files and, in order for them to work, I must run Office 2011 since MS didn't introduce macros compatibility until just now. Neither iWork nor OpenOffice work with the macros either, they are specifically formatted for Excel. So yes, not only do I need Office but I require Office 2011, period. I might be a minority but I am still an example of how the 10 year lifespan wouldn't work.

 

no, its not really valid. My point is... computer progress over time. Eventually for certain tasks, they will get to the point they are good enough and no future machine will really be necessary to do those certain tasks. Many Universities even have computer labs full of computers that do everything students need right now that are nearing, or over 10 years old. Of course they are not Macs... Macs had a major switch that killed some compatibility, which throws the numbers off some just for them. But a main point is... if you buy a machine that does a task right now. In 10 years it will still do that same task. Now if your trying to update it to do something it couldn't do before... like run a newer version of Office that didn't exist... thats a different case because you are changing it.

What I'm saying is .. your example doesn't hold true except maybe in a few special circumstances and mainly with Macs only... but mainly that the premiss is a bit flawed anyways. A Mac bought right now is much different than some PPC Mac bought long ago, because you have more options. Even if Apple decides to crap out on support, you have other OSes and such you can install and still keep up just fine.

I never said that no one needs it. I said to just assume that its needed is a mistake. I'm sure certain people do need it, but that has no affect on the statement that a MBP bought today will last someone for 10 years before there is a need to replace it. Even if a similar situation happens 10 years from now because of an ARM switch, you aren't stuck with a computer that was like a PPC machine that isn't compatible with most of the world. You could still install Windows worst case and run the programs you need for compatibility.

I'm just saying taking the statements made and trying to apply them to any machine on any timeline is flawed, you have to look very specifically at the current machines being discussed and the directions computers are moving.

 

That is true. I have a desktop that is almost 10 years old. It has a simple Pentium 4 non-HT processor with 1GB of RAM and a simple AGP 8x graphics card running Windows XP. I bought it in 2002 and it is running Office 2010 right now just fine. Granted, it is a little slow (though a recent reformat of the 10,000 RPM SCSI, remember that?, hard drive has drastically helped things) but it still runs current programs just fine and it is 9 years old. Macs are the odd ones out especially since Apple switched platforms. But that is also my point. Right now many are talking about Apple switching to ARM in the next 4-6 years. So, if they switch processor platforms yet again, we would see a repeat of their switch to Intel in that MBPs out now would not be able to run future software (even simple office programs) 10 years from now just as PPC Macs can't run modern office programs. Hence why I don't' understand how anyone can say that any Mac out now will be able to run software for 10 years. Yes, it will be able to run current software just fine but, if anyone needs to upgrade to newer software, they will be SOL. That is why I don't think anyone can make a valid statement of how long something will last especially in the technology arena where things are constantly changing.

Remember those old statements from computer salesmen in 1997 saying that a 266MHz Pentium II is all anyone would ever need, 32MB of RAM is more then enough to cook with Windows 95, a graphics card with 2MB of dedicated VRAM (hooked up through AGP2X) would be enough to run 3D content for a lifetime? Even Bill Gates made statements like that which were proven wrong in just a few years time. So I am not disagreeing that current Macs might be able to run constantly updated software for 10 years. I am just saying that it is too bold of a statement to make as we never know what will happen especially with Apple.

Umm...

OK, there is that part about how assuming that people need office is a mistake (even though it is the most used set of office productivity programs) but then there was this:

 

making the assumption without having all the facts is a mistake. I never said needing it is a mistake.. or that its not needed ever... just that making the assumption that you need it is a mistake, when you may not. Knowing you need it, and making an assumption that you need it, is not the same thing.

The second part of that was worded badly... sometimes I type faster than I re-read things and I miss a few words. You do not always need MS Office... yes sometimes certain people will need it, but there are many versions that could fit the bill, including non Mac versions in those really bad situations. For most people and what they do in Office, it isn't needed.