I am looking to purchase a new computer and I have it narrowed down between a sager or a Macbook. My budget is 2500 and I know that this could build me a very nice PC laptop that would outperform any Macbook but I like Macs OSX and the ability to run windows parallel with it. I am also wanting one because I can use software in both OSX and Windows for Audio producing.
1) My main question is can the Macbook Pro game?
I am an avid gamer and I would still like to play games while still being able to work. I would be playing games like Dayz, Shogun 2, Blackops 2, BF3, and a lot more graphics intense games.I want the Macbook to perform well on all the games running them at high graphics if possible.
2) Is the Retina display worth the price?
I know it looks great but a lot of the web doesnt even utilize that type of screen yet so it makes it kinda pointless to own.
3) Hardrive space?
I am worried that the flash storage wouldn't be enough for me. With installing games and running programs I am afraid of filling it up to quickly. Is there a way to get at least a 750gb hardrive?
4) Is the gtx 560m a worthy card?
In the PC equivalents that I made on websites like Xotic PC I can put a gtx 680m for the same price I am paying for the Macbook Pro. Does the GTX 560 perform well?
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Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
its a 650m, have you thought about the razer blade?
1)yes the 650m can game, check youtube for example on how fluid things are or not.
2)The retina display is a convoluted thing, depends on what you are doing, if you need extreme color accuracy, no its not worth it. If you are a res junkie, completely worth it. regarding sites... I see more spreadsheets than sites, so its worth to me.
3) its up to you. You can put your steam library on a external drive, be it usb or thunderbolt.
4) as I said the 650m is a good enough medium range gpu
5) the 680m is going to eat for breakfast the 650m and demand more, the difference is just around 200% -
It's not made for gaming. It is capable of playing modern games at medium and sometimes high settings, but you'll hear and feel it (heatwise) - not like a gamer oriented laptop like xotic sells. And of course, most AAA games still aren't really made with macs in mind, so you'll have to use funky workarounds or deal with reduced performance under bootcamp/parallels. The tradeoff you have to make is, if you buy a gaming laptop (of any brand really), you will have to deal with poor battery life and a big rig that you can really won't want to carry every day, and of course no OSX without making a hackintosh (more work on your part).
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Ok thanks for the input guys. I have a few more questions I know you guys probably wouldn't know much about this unless its your field but is it true that Macs are better at audio production? I have been reading about both sides of the argument and it seems that Mac is ahead software wise and PC is ahead hardware wise. Im also not sure if I want to deal with Boot Camp just to play my steam games and the fact that I would have to lug around an external drive just to play any of them kinda throws me off as well. The only reason I was a mac is for its OSX and programs pretty much...
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Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
well, I live with just a 120gb ssd, and dual boot it with windows. on the latter I usually have 1 game installed.
and hakira is wrong there is no performance loos when running bootcamp, parallels is another matter.
I dont know anything about sound software -
That is true though, I do like the Macbook for its portability and battery life as well. I'm going to be lugging this thing from college and back every other weekend but otherwise it will be on a desk most of the time. I still can't decide if I want a powerful PC laptop or a Macbook
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Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
one word of advice, dont get any sager machine thinking that it has good audio out, it doesnt, there is a scary variation of latencies there. m18x is also out, the m17x is a good option, I dont know how the msi machines behave that way
AFAIK, mac either uses cirrus logic chips for audio out or the dreaded realtek ones.
and I still dont know anything about audio -
I was planning on getting this one
Sager NP9370 / Clevo P370EM - XOTIC PC - 17.3" Custom Gaming Laptop
Whats wrong with the Audio outs on them? -
Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
dpc latencies
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I have a Sager NP9150 and the normal audio out does suck. But it's no that much to add a good external sound card, and with that my laptop sounds much better through the audio output that my dad's mac book pro. For performance, go with the Sager hands down and slap a GTX680M in there. Only thing is you might want to get a good external sound card, but luckily those aren't too expensive
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2 -
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Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
it will be aparent if the gpus are under load, that machine makes quite a bit of noise, there is review on notebookcheck that might give you a base on what to expect
and FIY there is no optimus, the gpus will be always running, albeit with very different clocks
why dont you get the aw m17x? the battery life on clevos is nothing short of pathetic, at least on the m17x you can safely chose the 7970m and you wont deal with any enduro issues, saving you a bit of money, also the battery life in those models is noticeably better than anything clevo offers and there is also the warranty thing, dell offers NBD and ACD on aw machines.
another idea would be to wait the asus ux51 aka u500 -
saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate
As mentioned above, the Alienware M17x would be an excellent option. -
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It may not be as elegant as doing it all on one machine but based on the OP's needs an AIO machine isn't for him. My recommendation is to just get a basic or lower cost Macbook for OS X and music production and get a PC notebook for his gaming needs.
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As far as a Macbook I would recommend getting a 2.9 Ghz 13" Macbook Pro (not retina) with the 750GB hard disk. It will run your audio production programs extremely well but the hard disk spins at 5400RPM's. You may either want to install your own 3rd party 7200RPM drive or an SSD. Apple's upgrades are too pricey. Now the Thunderbolt port on the Macbooks will open up a lot of connectivity opportunities for you but one extra port on the 15" Macbook Pro might be of interest to you and that would be the dedicated Audio in and Audio out ports. On the 13" you're only getting a combined Audio in/out port. With separate ports you can connect your headphones to monitor your audio recordings while the line in port is connected to an external board that you might be using to input audio. Not many PC laptops have a dedicated low level line-in port and that's just one of the reasons pros still prefer a Mac for audio production. -
Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
I would actually just get a np9150 and call it a day, put a 680m in there and be happy with it. The added cost and hassle of the 680m sli isnt worth it -
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You probably don't need a 2500 machine to play games. Look at an asus g75 (or a desktop if you really want the best power for your money) and then buy a 13" macbook pro/air. Both of those together will run you less than 3k USD, and that's after taxes and upgrades. Best of both worlds, that's what I have. -
When I was examining and cross comparing music schools to improve my skills in electronic music, all the instructors/guest speaker producers were using a MBP/iMacs because Logic is OSX-exclusive. I've studied long and hard at the Windows vs OSX debate for music production and have determined that the Logic/Ableton Live combo is the best route to go. The most popular music school dropped FL Studio from their program due to lack of popularity and interest. I will be making the switch myself in a few weeks.
If you want to game, the 650m is perfectly fine in the MBP15, however if you desire something light, then I would suggest a MBA13 + Decent gaming desktop that you build on your own. Total should be 2.1k-ish for it all. MBA13 refurbs with 256GB from Apple run at around 1150$-ish.
MBA13 vs MBP13
Air = Superior resolution, less than 3LBS, matte which equals less reflections, SSD standard, better battery life
Pro = Better colours/contrast glossy, more ports, HD cam, bigger HD, replace optical with 2nd HD
Note: The MBP13 comes with a 5400rpm HD - making music on a HD this slow is unbearable, so if you choose the MBP13, you will need to upgrade to minimum 7200rpm immediately or else you will face significant lag and delays.
Personally I like the air 13 over the mbp13.
Edited: EGPU option listed below is a very good idea. -
You should look into external graphics. Buy a cheap macbook air for os x, then plug it into an egpu for your windows gaming to experience games on near-desktop performance. You can check out my setup in my signature.
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This is definitely something I would also be interested in doing myself later this year.
Mind breaking down the cost of your EGPU setup?
Edit: $279 for the 4 Plus, right? Reading the EGPU forums, it appears that one can use a lesser model if you don't mind using a less power hungry GPU. Will have to read up on it further. -
Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
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I'd go for an NVidia card. With those, it's possible to use the internal laptop screen and not be forced to use an external monitor. Would definitely help if your on the go.
The NVidia 650 is a good card for the job, and has actually been confirmed to work with the sonnet echo se and macbook air. I can't find the thread, but he posted an image of his macbook air connected to the sonnet echo se and nvidia 650 (because the 650 could use more than the 60w of power, I'd consider under clocking the card a bit or maybe buying an nvidia 640).
Hope this made sense :l
Edit: Ok, disregard what I said about the 650. It might be a better option to just go ahead and get the 640. Also heres the link to the page.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/e-gpu-external-graphics-discussion/688931-thunderbolt-e-gpu-setup-sonnet-echo-express-pro-review-tomshardware.html
Optimus isn't working yet, but it's all a matter of time -
Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
I chose the 7750 because there is no need for 6 pin connector or other types of power plugs, the 640 doesnt use the connectors
actually, looking for the performance numbers, I would go definitely for the 7750, much more power -
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Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
given that you accomplish around the same performance, its not worth the added cost and hassle. Its a valid idea for people with much smaller notebooks that dont come with gpus or those are too underpowered, not a 650m
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Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
you forgot to mention that they dont have the hardware as well.
well focus on what you want:
Game: terrible battery life, great display, good performance, great gaming, not so good build quality and materials
Sound: great battery life, great display, good performance, average gaming, good build quality and materials.
I wouldnt actually chose the 9370, I would go for the 9150 and just put a 680m in there. It avoids the headache that is sli, and the custom profiles for each game and so forth, annoying. -
Do you think a 9150 could meet my needs involving audio as well? I am not necessarily going to be DJing or anything like that any time soon, I just enjoy making music in my free time and I have heard that Macs have better software for Audio Production. -
Google search... run osx on PC, I didn't research it but there may be a way to run some Mac apps on your new gaming machine... possibly
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Ok, so your budget is $2500.
2012 13inch macbook pro 2.9ghz i7: $1500
Sonnet Echo Express Pro: $800
AMD 7850: $200
total is $2500
or
2012 13inch macbook pro 2.9ghz i7: $1500
Vidock 4: $240
Sonnet Echo Thunderbolt Adapter + Cable= $200
NVidia 660: $230
Total is $2170
Once you buy either setup, solely upgrading the graphics card will be needed to increase performance. -
Btw, heres a video of me playing Crysis 2 via an e-gpu (constant 60fps without fraps)
Crysis2 Macbook Pro gameplay using ViDock 4+ - YouTube -
Keep in mind, if you want a 680m, alienware and sager are not the only players.
MSI also ships a 15" laptop with a 680m.
The GT60 is around 7.7 lbs and is definitely thicker and heavier than a retina mbp... but 7.7lbs is plenty mobile for any adult who isn't crippled. (you aren't going to find a 5lb laptop with 680m.)
MSI's audio hardware is impressive and the MSI laptops (GT series) we have here perform suitably in DPC latency.
This of course doesn't address the software issue if you absolutely want to use Logic.
There are lots of excellent audio production software offerings out there for PC. It is simply up to the user and whatever method to learn audio production (and the product any workplace would support) that determines which is actually better for you.
On the gaming side, the rMBP is capable of gaming and the 650m is decent, but a rMBP is not an ideal gaming platform.
The rMBP's cooling is not suitable for extended gaming.
The rMBP has troubles with extended processing as well. The CPU reaches over 110C after just 10 minutes of video playback.
IF you choose to game or do extended video or audio processing on a rMBP, I'd advise a cooling pad.
Perhaps the best combo here is a macbook air for music production ($999) which leaves you $1500 to build a gaming desktop.
(enough for a decent x-fire or SLI setup!)
For those of you who said there is no market for enthusiast gaming + macbook...
Here's at least one. -
The 17x/18x (alienwares) excel in using Radeon GPU's, because the 680M on the dell throttles (as mentioned on a thread by widezu)
On the other hand the GT 6/70ON-E's packs a better 680M and is much more favorable than the dell 680M
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Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
The gt 60 is a good option, and in a barebones version can be had for 1500 with a 680m, so very much a good buy.
das link
FORCE/MSI 16F3 (36-024) 680M | XOTIC PC -
Also I know its probably out of the question but with the Sager NP9370, say I just put one 680 in it now but later on down the road would it be possible to add in another manually if I wanted to? -
Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
it would be possible, but its going to cost you around 800 for that 680m + heatsink
its up to you on what to choose -
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Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
the price of those gpus rarely fall much more than what they are, they are just discountinued and you have to go for the second hand market
and when a 680m aint cutting anymore, you are probably going to benefit more in changing for newer gpu or notebook, instead of adding one more.
its not like you are buying a mid range gpu, you are buying the most powerful mobile gpu out there, and its a 670, and yes you can overclock things to get to that level pretty easily. -
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saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate
That being said, if you're interested in Sager, I would strongly recommend a system built by MYTHLOGIC. They're an integrator (not a reseller like XoticPC or Powernotebooks) that builds machines from the same shells (Clevo) as Sager. The main difference, and where I believe MYTH is superior, is the attention to detail and testing they conduct with each and every build. They handle all the warranty and support in-house, rather than you having to go through a Sager reseller or Sager themselves. Many of the items that are standard on MYTHLOGIC machines are extra-cost items with Sager, so comparably equipped, the prices are roughly the same. Head over into the reseller feedback section of the Sager/Clevo sub forum here, and there are pages of threads singing the praises of MYTHLOGIC. I've used them before, and while I needed to return what I bought from them because I needed a Mac, I would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone who's interested in getting a powerful notebook. -
Is a Macbook Pro for me?
Discussion in 'Apple and Mac OS X' started by Obvioushail, Oct 6, 2012.