Is a Macbook Pro for me?

I am looking to purchase a new computer and I have it narrowed down between a sager or a Macbook. My budget is 2500 and I know that this could build me a very nice PC laptop that would outperform any Macbook but I like Macs OSX and the ability to run windows parallel with it. I am also wanting one because I can use software in both OSX and Windows for Audio producing.

1) My main question is can the Macbook Pro game?

I am an avid gamer and I would still like to play games while still being able to work. I would be playing games like Dayz, Shogun 2, Blackops 2, BF3, and a lot more graphics intense games.I want the Macbook to perform well on all the games running them at high graphics if possible.

2) Is the Retina display worth the price?

I know it looks great but a lot of the web doesnt even utilize that type of screen yet so it makes it kinda pointless to own.

3) Hardrive space?

I am worried that the flash storage wouldn't be enough for me. With installing games and running programs I am afraid of filling it up to quickly. Is there a way to get at least a 750gb hardrive?

4) Is the gtx 560m a worthy card?

In the PC equivalents that I made on websites like Xotic PC I can put a gtx 680m for the same price I am paying for the Macbook Pro. Does the GTX 560 perform well?

 

its a 650m, have you thought about the razer blade?

1)yes the 650m can game, check youtube for example on how fluid things are or not.

2)The retina display is a convoluted thing, depends on what you are doing, if you need extreme color accuracy, no its not worth it. If you are a res junkie, completely worth it. regarding sites... I see more spreadsheets than sites, so its worth to me.

3) its up to you. You can put your steam library on a external drive, be it usb or thunderbolt.

4) as I said the 650m is a good enough medium range gpu

5) the 680m is going to eat for breakfast the 650m and demand more, the difference is just around 200%

 

It's not made for gaming. It is capable of playing modern games at medium and sometimes high settings, but you'll hear and feel it (heatwise) - not like a gamer oriented laptop like xotic sells. And of course, most AAA games still aren't really made with macs in mind, so you'll have to use funky workarounds or deal with reduced performance under bootcamp/parallels. The tradeoff you have to make is, if you buy a gaming laptop (of any brand really), you will have to deal with poor battery life and a big rig that you can really won't want to carry every day, and of course no OSX without making a hackintosh (more work on your part).

 

Ok thanks for the input guys. I have a few more questions I know you guys probably wouldn't know much about this unless its your field but is it true that Macs are better at audio production? I have been reading about both sides of the argument and it seems that Mac is ahead software wise and PC is ahead hardware wise. Im also not sure if I want to deal with Boot Camp just to play my steam games and the fact that I would have to lug around an external drive just to play any of them kinda throws me off as well. The only reason I was a mac is for its OSX and programs pretty much...

 

well, I live with just a 120gb ssd, and dual boot it with windows. on the latter I usually have 1 game installed.

and hakira is wrong there is no performance loos when running bootcamp, parallels is another matter.

I dont know anything about sound software

 

That is true though, I do like the Macbook for its portability and battery life as well. I'm going to be lugging this thing from college and back every other weekend but otherwise it will be on a desk most of the time. I still can't decide if I want a powerful PC laptop or a Macbook

 

There is absolutely nothing inherent to the Mac hardware that makes it "better at audio." Nothing. The hardware itself is very close to any PC laptop. Where the "better than" comes in is in the software. The Mac has grandfathered audio software from the distant past. That said, many of the Mac-only apps have acquired Windows counterparts in the last few years.

 

So at this point its basically just preference? I really want the laptop to be good with audio production but if the PC equivalent is just as good I think I might stick with the PC.

 

one word of advice, dont get any sager machine thinking that it has good audio out, it doesnt, there is a scary variation of latencies there. m18x is also out, the m17x is a good option, I dont know how the msi machines behave that way

AFAIK, mac either uses cirrus logic chips for audio out or the dreaded realtek ones.

and I still dont know anything about audio

 

Ahhh that sucks I had a whole Sager/Clevo Machine already built I was planning on getting this one

Sager NP9370 / Clevo P370EM - XOTIC PC - 17.3" Custom Gaming Laptop

Whats wrong with the Audio outs on them?

 

dpc latencies

 

I have a Sager NP9150 and the normal audio out does suck. But it's no that much to add a good external sound card, and with that my laptop sounds much better through the audio output that my dad's mac book pro. For performance, go with the Sager hands down and slap a GTX680M in there. Only thing is you might want to get a good external sound card, but luckily those aren't too expensive

Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

 

I was actually planning on getting dual GTX680ms just to future proof it but I'm worried about heat and the noise. I am wanting to record audio with this machine as well do you think dual 680s would make a loud humming noise or any noticeable background noise?

 

it will be aparent if the gpus are under load, that machine makes quite a bit of noise, there is review on notebookcheck that might give you a base on what to expect

and FIY there is no optimus, the gpus will be always running, albeit with very different clocks

why dont you get the aw m17x? the battery life on clevos is nothing short of pathetic, at least on the m17x you can safely chose the 7970m and you wont deal with any enduro issues, saving you a bit of money, also the battery life in those models is noticeably better than anything clevo offers and there is also the warranty thing, dell offers NBD and ACD on aw machines.

another idea would be to wait the asus ux51 aka u500

 

That's not a good reason to spend so much extra money because you'll never make it back when it comes time to sell. It would be wiser to spend less on something you can use for 2-3 years and put the money you're not spending now into something that will be more powerful down the road.

As mentioned above, the Alienware M17x would be an excellent option.

 

The alienwares seem over priced and tacky to me (feel free to prove me wrong) I like them but they just seem like something you would just take to lan parties. I am looking for something that is simplistic and I can bring it to an office environment without getting stares, which is why I initially chose a Sager. How would dual gpus not future proof me? One 680 can max just about any game so 2 would benefit me in the future.

 

It may not be as elegant as doing it all on one machine but based on the OP's needs an AIO machine isn't for him. My recommendation is to just get a basic or lower cost Macbook for OS X and music production and get a PC notebook for his gaming needs.

 

Hmm you don't think an all in one Sager would work? May I ask why? But, what MacBook would you recommend?

 

Oh I'm sorry I probably wasn't clear. When I said AIO, I meant getting a Macbook to run both OS X and Windows, meaning combining all your needs into one machine. Not AIO as in an iMac-type of computer. A Sager (since it doesn't run OS X) is not the type of AIO I was referring to. I don't know anything about Sager products but I would say if the screen and build quality are good and it offers a good GPU for your gaming needs then I would say you should consider it. I would stay away from Alienware or Dell since they are the same company and Alienware from a "visual" standpoint is attractive to teen gamers due to all the flashing colored lights but I've seen them in person and they extremely big, heavy, bulky and the build quality suffers.

As far as a Macbook I would recommend getting a 2.9 Ghz 13" Macbook Pro (not retina) with the 750GB hard disk. It will run your audio production programs extremely well but the hard disk spins at 5400RPM's. You may either want to install your own 3rd party 7200RPM drive or an SSD. Apple's upgrades are too pricey. Now the Thunderbolt port on the Macbooks will open up a lot of connectivity opportunities for you but one extra port on the 15" Macbook Pro might be of interest to you and that would be the dedicated Audio in and Audio out ports. On the 13" you're only getting a combined Audio in/out port. With separate ports you can connect your headphones to monitor your audio recordings while the line in port is connected to an external board that you might be using to input audio. Not many PC laptops have a dedicated low level line-in port and that's just one of the reasons pros still prefer a Mac for audio production.

 

you were thinking of buying a np9370 and thinking of bringing it to an office? now.... we have different opinions on this matter.

I would actually just get a np9150 and call it a day, put a 680m in there and be happy with it. The added cost and hassle of the 680m sli isnt worth it

 

I initially wanted a MacBook but I'm not positive that the GPU they offer would be sufficient for my gaming needs. The Sager I was thinking about would have a 17inch screen Atleast 1 680m, 16gb RAM, a 750gb 7200 RPM hard drive and a 250GB SSD boot drive, and just the baseline processor. I think it's 2.4ghz but I'm not positive. If I was getting a Mac I would want it to run a lot of my games on high or better, and I would more than likely want the 15-inch screen.

 

Like I said earlier, you don't buy a mac if your intention is to game (with AAA games that you've mentioned) on it on a regular basis. They simply don't have the power to drive high powered gaming (since you wanted to achieve high settings). You're in a tough spot because that magical niche doesn't exist yet; we don't have a computer that has 7 hrs of battery life and weighs less than 5lbs - something you could carry with you every day without complaints - that has a strong dedicated GPU and other good specs. You either have to make a sacrifice one way or the other (the heavy, terrible battery life but powerful sager, or the lightweight but weaker macbook), or do what a lot of us do and simply buy one of each.

You probably don't need a 2500 machine to play games. Look at an asus g75 (or a desktop if you really want the best power for your money) and then buy a 13" macbook pro/air. Both of those together will run you less than 3k USD, and that's after taxes and upgrades. Best of both worlds, that's what I have.

 

Yes.

When I was examining and cross comparing music schools to improve my skills in electronic music, all the instructors/guest speaker producers were using a MBP/iMacs because Logic is OSX-exclusive. I've studied long and hard at the Windows vs OSX debate for music production and have determined that the Logic/Ableton Live combo is the best route to go. The most popular music school dropped FL Studio from their program due to lack of popularity and interest. I will be making the switch myself in a few weeks.

If you want to game, the 650m is perfectly fine in the MBP15, however if you desire something light, then I would suggest a MBA13 + Decent gaming desktop that you build on your own. Total should be 2.1k-ish for it all. MBA13 refurbs with 256GB from Apple run at around 1150$-ish.

MBA13 vs MBP13
Air = Superior resolution, less than 3LBS, matte which equals less reflections, SSD standard, better battery life
Pro = Better colours/contrast glossy, more ports, HD cam, bigger HD, replace optical with 2nd HD

Note: The MBP13 comes with a 5400rpm HD - making music on a HD this slow is unbearable, so if you choose the MBP13, you will need to upgrade to minimum 7200rpm immediately or else you will face significant lag and delays.

Personally I like the air 13 over the mbp13.

Edited: EGPU option listed below is a very good idea.

 

You should look into external graphics. Buy a cheap macbook air for os x, then plug it into an egpu for your windows gaming to experience games on near-desktop performance. You can check out my setup in my signature.

 

The E-GPU option slipped my mind.

This is definitely something I would also be interested in doing myself later this year.

Mind breaking down the cost of your EGPU setup?

Edit: $279 for the 4 Plus, right? Reading the EGPU forums, it appears that one can use a lesser model if you don't mind using a less power hungry GPU. Will have to read up on it further.

 

currently my mind is to get a sonnet echo express se at provantage and a 7750, so no fiddling with anything besides cutting the pcie slot to fit the card. And by doing this its actually sensible in terms of costs compared to going for the 4plus.

 

I'd go for an NVidia card. With those, it's possible to use the internal laptop screen and not be forced to use an external monitor. Would definitely help if your on the go.

The NVidia 650 is a good card for the job, and has actually been confirmed to work with the sonnet echo se and macbook air. I can't find the thread, but he posted an image of his macbook air connected to the sonnet echo se and nvidia 650 (because the 650 could use more than the 60w of power, I'd consider under clocking the card a bit or maybe buying an nvidia 640).

Hope this made sense :l

Edit: Ok, disregard what I said about the 650. It might be a better option to just go ahead and get the 640. Also heres the link to the page.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/e-gpu-external-graphics-discussion/688931-thunderbolt-e-gpu-setup-sonnet-echo-express-pro-review-tomshardware.html

Optimus isn't working yet, but it's all a matter of time

 

I chose the 7750 because there is no need for 6 pin connector or other types of power plugs, the 640 doesnt use the connectors

actually, looking for the performance numbers, I would go definitely for the 7750, much more power

 

I haven't really had any experience with external GPUs would it be in my best interest to buy a 15-inch Macbook Pro and just use an external graphics card? Is there anyway to figure out what graphics cards would be compatible with a Macbook running windows as well?

 

given that you accomplish around the same performance, its not worth the added cost and hassle. Its a valid idea for people with much smaller notebooks that dont come with gpus or those are too underpowered, not a 650m

 

Ok thanks alot. I am basically at the point to where I like Macs but they don't have the hardware I am looking for, and I like PC's but they don't have the software. I don't know what to do

 

you forgot to mention that they dont have the hardware as well.

well focus on what you want:

Game: terrible battery life, great display, good performance, great gaming, not so good build quality and materials

Sound: great battery life, great display, good performance, average gaming, good build quality and materials.

I wouldnt actually chose the 9370, I would go for the 9150 and just put a 680m in there. It avoids the headache that is sli, and the custom profiles for each game and so forth, annoying.

 

I agree with you that there is a massive hassle that comes with SLI because some games don't take duel graphics cards very well, but the only reason I would like them is to future proof the laptop. In consideration I guess there is no real need to future proof a laptop that is more for desktops.

Do you think a 9150 could meet my needs involving audio as well? I am not necessarily going to be DJing or anything like that any time soon, I just enjoy making music in my free time and I have heard that Macs have better software for Audio Production.

 

Google search... run osx on PC, I didn't research it but there may be a way to run some Mac apps on your new gaming machine... possibly

 

I have researched it thats what a hackintosh is. I'm not sure it would work because it would require certain parts for it.

 

Ok, so your budget is $2500.

2012 13inch macbook pro 2.9ghz i7: $1500
Sonnet Echo Express Pro: $800
AMD 7850: $200
total is $2500
or

2012 13inch macbook pro 2.9ghz i7: $1500
Vidock 4: $240
Sonnet Echo Thunderbolt Adapter + Cable= $200
NVidia 660: $230
Total is $2170

Once you buy either setup, solely upgrading the graphics card will be needed to increase performance.

 

Btw, heres a video of me playing Crysis 2 via an e-gpu (constant 60fps without fraps)

Crysis2 Macbook Pro gameplay using ViDock 4+ - YouTube

 

Keep in mind, if you want a 680m, alienware and sager are not the only players.

MSI also ships a 15" laptop with a 680m.
The GT60 is around 7.7 lbs and is definitely thicker and heavier than a retina mbp... but 7.7lbs is plenty mobile for any adult who isn't crippled. (you aren't going to find a 5lb laptop with 680m.)

MSI's audio hardware is impressive and the MSI laptops (GT series) we have here perform suitably in DPC latency.

This of course doesn't address the software issue if you absolutely want to use Logic.

There are lots of excellent audio production software offerings out there for PC. It is simply up to the user and whatever method to learn audio production (and the product any workplace would support) that determines which is actually better for you.

On the gaming side, the rMBP is capable of gaming and the 650m is decent, but a rMBP is not an ideal gaming platform.
The rMBP's cooling is not suitable for extended gaming.
The rMBP has troubles with extended processing as well. The CPU reaches over 110C after just 10 minutes of video playback.
IF you choose to game or do extended video or audio processing on a rMBP, I'd advise a cooling pad.


Perhaps the best combo here is a macbook air for music production ($999) which leaves you $1500 to build a gaming desktop.
(enough for a decent x-fire or SLI setup!)

For those of you who said there is no market for enthusiast gaming + macbook...
Here's at least one.

 

My ASUS uses realtek chips and the sound is decent

The 17x/18x (alienwares) excel in using Radeon GPU's, because the 680M on the dell throttles (as mentioned on a thread by widezu)
On the other hand the GT 6/70ON-E's packs a better 680M and is much more favorable than the dell 680M

Total overkill, just take a GT 6/70 and go with a single 680. Upgrade to a 685M/780M in the future

See my above post

I'd rather take the HD 7950, it's only priced slightly higher than the 660/660Ti but has a better performance

 

I completely agree with you that it would probably be in my best interest to get a light weight Macbook Air and then get a gaming desktop, but I am starting college in the following year and I need something that I can tote around to and from college. I am going to be staying there during the week and coming home on the weekends and I don't really want to packup a desktop every weekend. So, I am in the market for something more mobile that can do some audio production and still game. I thought of dropping the price and maybe buying a nice gaming laptop and then using the extra cash to buy a cheap Macbook.

 

The gt 60 is a good option, and in a barebones version can be had for 1500 with a 680m, so very much a good buy.

das link
FORCE/MSI 16F3 (36-024) 680M | XOTIC PC

 

Your right that is a very good buy! So basically i am not debating between the sager NP9170 or that ForceMSI. Dollar for dollar what laptop do you think would be better? With the Sager when I add a 680 it brings the price up to 1700.

Also I know its probably out of the question but with the Sager NP9370, say I just put one 680 in it now but later on down the road would it be possible to add in another manually if I wanted to?

 

it would be possible, but its going to cost you around 800 for that 680m + heatsink

its up to you on what to choose

 

Hmmm I might just purchase the Sager NP9370 and a little ways down the road if it cant max games anymore and I feel it needs an upgrade I could just add the second 680m. By that time the price would have dropped a little anyway. I was just wanting to confirm that the motherboard could still hold a second one even though I just ordered it with a single

 

the price of those gpus rarely fall much more than what they are, they are just discountinued and you have to go for the second hand market

and when a 680m aint cutting anymore, you are probably going to benefit more in changing for newer gpu or notebook, instead of adding one more.

its not like you are buying a mid range gpu, you are buying the most powerful mobile gpu out there, and its a 670, and yes you can overclock things to get to that level pretty easily.

 

I was just wondering, do you know why the NP9370 is so much more than the NP9170? Even though they have similar hardware I dont see a reason for that price jump, but I guess Its just between the sager NP9170 and the MSI one now. Which one do you think is better dollar for dollar?

 

Looking strictly at the Sager versus MSI, I'd pick the former. I had an MSI notebook previous to my Mac and really liked it. It was well built and easy to maintain and upgrade.

That being said, if you're interested in Sager, I would strongly recommend a system built by MYTHLOGIC. They're an integrator (not a reseller like XoticPC or Powernotebooks) that builds machines from the same shells (Clevo) as Sager. The main difference, and where I believe MYTH is superior, is the attention to detail and testing they conduct with each and every build. They handle all the warranty and support in-house, rather than you having to go through a Sager reseller or Sager themselves. Many of the items that are standard on MYTHLOGIC machines are extra-cost items with Sager, so comparably equipped, the prices are roughly the same. Head over into the reseller feedback section of the Sager/Clevo sub forum here, and there are pages of threads singing the praises of MYTHLOGIC. I've used them before, and while I needed to return what I bought from them because I needed a Mac, I would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone who's interested in getting a powerful notebook.

 

I checked out there website, over all they look like a really good deal, but the only problem is that my budget is that i have decided to use the 2.5K to buy a laptop and a desktop so I'm looking to spend around 1600 on a laptop and I also want a gtx680m in it. Any laptop on their website that I upgrade to a 680 instantly goes over my budget. I'm not sure why theres is so much more. For the Sager with a 17" screen and a 680 the price only comes up to 1600 while the 17" laptops on that site come to around 2000.