Is Apple worth the money

Hi,

I'm over here in Aus and was wondering peoples experience of whether the Apple Powerbook G4 (15") is really worth the money. It seems you can get an equivalent speced Dell for about $1000 Aus less than the Apple retails for.

Usage: General downloading, creating DVD's. Creating CD's, editing Digital Photo's and eventually DVD's

thanks

 

You just answered you own question. As with many things, part of it is perceived value. I personally think the Apple product is worth it.

It really falls on your needs and affordability.

Dell Inspiron 8600:
* 1.6 Ghz Pentium M * 1024 MB DDR SDRAM * 60 GB 7200 RPM HD * 15.4" WSXGA+ * Internal Bluetooth * Intel Pro/Wireless 2200 * 4x CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) * ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 Pro Turbo 128 MB * Win XP Pro SP2 *

* Apple 17" PowerBook G4 * 14" Toshiba Tecra 8000 * Apple 14" iBook G4 *

 

Why Apple is worth it:

1. The best quality. Apple computers, powerbooks, etc, are clearly built using high quality materials and workmanship. Look at many PC's, cheap plastic, misaligned keyboards, not built to last.

2. Apple computers are a thing of beauty. My powerbook is a great blend of form and function. Vaio PC's are the only PC's that might come close, but, they don't have the quality of the Mac.

3. No better operating system for general use than OS/X. You have to use OS/X to be a real convert. It's efficient, stable and it's fun. Using XP at work is a drag for me, I can't stand the rigidity of it. It has no "feel" for the work like OS/X does. OS/X is a very intuitive interface than ties in well with projects and data, much better IMO than Windows and XP.

4. OS/X equals much better security. Windows and XP are a hackers delight. Just how many patches does Microsoft have to come up with? And, how compromised is XP? Do you ever wonder how many "back doors" it has in it? Rumor is PGP, for example, is hackable if you know the XP backdoor and can work with a little computer code.

5. OS/X is stability. XP will crash and of course gets loaded up with adware, spyware, junkware, scumware, malware, and it goes on and on. OS/X is much less susceptible mainly because of its limited use as an OS, but, also because the operating system is so accessible via the Terminal. The language is much more transparent than XP and therefore also much more difficult to introdue bugs into that won't be quickly discovered.

6. Mac is cool. No doubt about it. PC "is the man" and "the machine." Microsoft owns the planet, if you did not notice. Well Mr. Gates, some of us just don't want to "play ball," we want to innovate, create and discover.

So, these are a few of the reasons and there are more. The biggest disadvantge IMO of Mac is only sometimes availability of software. If your a gamer, you should check this out (I am not), but, Mac has also gone a long way to come up with some cool games, like I saw in the Apple store the other day. So, I really don't know on that. Most software applications do have OS/X equivalents. There is more freeware/shareware for Windows for sure, but, then again, sometimes what comes free has its own little surprises
(ie, adware, malware, various pop up scum). So, some of this stuff its just a blessing you can't easily get it.

So, those are a few reasons for the Mac. Once you go Mac, you never go back. Good Luck!

 

2 of those are informed statements. The rest are debatable, pretentious, or simply a matter of opinion.

without a doubt, apple powerbooks are quality product and are very aesthetically minded from the hardware right down to the operating system.

but os 10 doesn't necessarily equal security. given a packet sniffer, an open wifi spot, and a bunch of individuals playing in Mail would be a hackers delight. hell, it could be your regular joe's delight. wondering about the amount of backdoors in XP is no reason to not wonder about the backdoors in os 10. much of the reason why os 10 is safe is because it is something that exists in a niche market. its the same reason why "linux" is so safe. not so much because it's security-minded, but making a virus for 10% of the computers is hardly something to celebrate in your respective circles. in regards to the stability of os 10, i don't know if you've ever used os 10.2; it was like mystery-program-close season. it still happens in 10.3 btw but less frequently. and let's not forget the lovely thought that it is possible to have someone remote desktop onto os 10... while you're logged into your account too.

the lack of spyware etc available for os 10 is a wonderful reason to use the operating system, especially if you're a mobile person. but again, it's not only spyware, malware, adware,... but it's software. i was very close to purchasing a 12" powerbook because the price is delicious and i was a machead early on. my first computer ran mac os 7.5. but as an engineering student there is a whole host of development and statistical software that just aren't available and i don't know if it ever will be. in elementary school, the object pascal in the codewarrior ide was fine for me. as an adult, i would rather opt to use .NET -and- GCC. oh, and as much as it would be great, minitab, a pillar of statistical strength, will probably lack representation on that operating system for a while. also, one of the most frustrating things... FUGU was developped at my school, and it is horrible. horrible happens when you take unix commands and throw a cocoa GUI over it. :[

and i don't know exactly why powerbooks are so awesome for art students either. i dabble in illustration, and given the money, i'd purchase a fujitsu stylistic tablet pc. tablet pc's don't run os 10 (although it may be nice). i guess i don't see why running photoshop without a significant increase in performance (and it's not significant) is supposed to be a compelling reason either. but hey, art students are a different animal than engineers with different needs and different expectations. apple is definitely a brand company with a cult-like following. owning an apple product has become a testament to your 'aesthetic awareness' and personal fortune. "oh wow, that apple must have been expensive, it must be good."

if you're film and video, i would certainly recommend a mac, but perhaps not a notebook for doing so. using a mobile solution to do something like throw a large dv file, clip it up in final cut, and throw it through compressor will definitely show the bottlenecks. i mean, there's a reason why we use desktops too. there's better way to make a DVD on a windows equivalent application. there is no cheaper solution than iMovie. FCP is a little out of the price range of most folk. the thing i respect most about apple is their pro line of software. which is ironic because the thing i respect least is the lack of software available.

the command prompt is just as familiar as the apple/unix terminal if you've been using pc's for a while.

mac users... i don't know about you, but i had the hardest time trying to find a mac friendly hot spot in korea. i lugged around an ibook with the expectation of taking advantage of the various arrays of hotspots available. but they all required a proprietary vpn client... which is great, security is always great, BUT the client was only available for PCs. so international consumers out there, the lack of ubiquity of os 10 is remarkably frustrating.

there's no reason to go mac then not go back. sometimes you have to. after going mac, i went the ways of the "ibm pc" (gosh, what happened to ibm) and go back occasionally when i am at work. i do admit that os 10 is a beautiful thing... but, IMHO, not that much more beautiful than Windows XP. i would certainly purchase a powerbook for its workmanship but i don't want to be nailed to the software limits of the platform or the complete dependence on a single company for everything. with all the complaints about microsoft's monopoly, at least they aren't building your desktops and notebooks too.

just some things to think about. don't get hung up in fad purchases. computers are utilities; simply make a decision based on what you can do with the computer.



<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by sofla

 

<quote>as an adult, i would rather opt to use .NET -and- GCC.</quote>

Well, strictly speaking, as someone who's been involved with .NET and MONO, I can tell you that you CAN have OS X and >.NET<.....use MONO. There's MONODEVELOP, a port of SharpDevelop. And GCC ? Uh...you DO know that XCODE comes installed on EVERY MAC out there, right ?

While I agree that the lack of VPN Client software may be an issue, especially if it's a SPECIFIC VPN Client you must have. But, that being said there are VPN Clients for OS X( VPN Tracker , Cisco VPN Client, etc..etc. ).

As for security while using a public hotspot, you HAVE heard of personal firewall software, right ?

I agree with some of your statements ( which are logically sound ), but I want to make sure you've got your story straight.



Mas sabe el diablo por viejo, que por diablo.

 

I don't disagree necessarily on a lot of this, it could be debated back and forth. For hotspots, I doubt it is much of a problem anymore. Also, I do use XP a lot of course, who does not, and I do have software that will only run on it or is made specifically for it. What I really don't like however is that Windows so dominates the market, they set their own prices and little guys hardly now or ever had much of a chance. And, who can argue with my logic here. As for backdoors and traps with the OS systems, IMO, its just logical to assume XP would have a lot of them. Look at the complexity of the code. Look at the fact that a few years ago the gov wanted to put into all computers little "clipper chips" because of encryption. Suddenly they backed off, didn't they? Wouldn't it be logical to go to the company that controls 95% of the world's operating systems and have a litle talk with him. Espcially when the guy is being accused big time of anti-trust. I don't want to be all paranoid here or a kook conspirator theory guy - but, if you use XP and want to encrypt, you better forget PGP and a bunch more systems with XP. Lots of rumors are out that XP has back doors to ferret out the keys. You might ask is this bad, in this age of terror and such. Maybe not, but, I just don't like it - I like to think back to the Constitution. Well, anyway, that is just how some of us think. Maybe we are like that Don Juan guy taking on windmills, I don't know. But one other thing, you cannot argue with me that at least OS/X is pleasant to use and a breeze.

 

I'm aware that there are options for coders using os 10. It's just that for my purposes, .NET is a IDE that I am becoming comfortable with. The creation process is fairly quick and painless in .NET, especially since a lot of the things I will need to code my field of study is quick-and-fast and needs a GUI. Also, being able to run it on a platform that is ubiquitous is a necessity. There aren't many companies that use strictly macs. Hell, some companies use archaic versions of windows (daimler chrysler JUST upgraded for example, which is scary considering that i drive a dodge). If I'm asked to whip up a small application that sifts through employee info in a a rather common MS access database, I'm not going to show them something that only works on my laptop rather than all of the companies machines. I suppose I could make it up to them by noting how very shiny my GUI is in os 10.

A nontrivial amount of people running os 10 have little to no idea what a firewall is, and after purchasing a mac, have been lulled into such a false sense of security that even if they did, few of them feel the need to find one for os 10. Yes, I know what a firewall is, and I would use and install one. But ask most of your powerbook and ibook owners if they 1) know what a firewall is 2) have made it a point to use one.

There are VPN clients for os 10, but that doesn't mean much in places like Korea. I doubt I could piece together any coherant question such as "Which concentrator do you guys use?" in that language. Yes, it is a specific client they have associated with a company that commonly offers wifi to a lot of places. The only other mac I found in Korea was an australian man with a powerbook in a korean starbucks. I asked him what VPN client he used and he gave me a funny look. He said that there might be an ethernet jack (I didn't look) but that he hasn't use wifi in Korea.

My story is straight, and pretty sad. I would love to use os 10 again, but it just isn't common enough yet. If I have expensive software licenses for things that run only in Windows, it just isn't appealing or practical for me struggle with the pricepoint of not only the hardware but the software as well, at least not for my hard-earned student dollar.

<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by xencoder

 

<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by sofla

 

Hmm....it didn't occur to me at the time of my first post, but after giving it some thought, it occurs to me that if the WiFi spots there require a VPN or some sort of comm manager, that they must be doing it to control costing ( more so than actual asset protection ). Just the same, I would think that one of the off the market VPN's would work just as well for you, becuase unless the VPN systems they're running there are using some non-standard protocol ( something other than IPSEC, 3DES, etc. ) or are tunneling in some (again) non-standard way ( like the Aventail SINE that munges up UDP-base communications ), they should be able to connect with the VPN service operated at the WiFi spot.

Yes, it's open and debatable on SOME of the strengths and weaknesses of OS X vs XP. Yes, XP is more, but that's because it's more "accessible" because of sheer numbers of deployment. It's been an open issue in the OS community that if Apple were to EVER release a port of OS X for x86 processors, what would happen to Windows ( and Linux for that matter ) ? Me, I program to windows because I HAVE to, to make a living. But where do I enjoy the "computing experience" more ? OS X....are you kidding ?

Now as to .NET. .NET is the framework, what you're referring to is Visual Studio, and frankly, I would recommend that you check out SharpDevelop. It's free, open source, and as I stated earlier, there is a port to Mono ( Open source .NET ), for Linux, and yes, OS X !
As a matter of fact, for OS X, the install for MONO is even easier than it is for Linux. Now, if what you're looking for is "interoperability", check out Eclipse ( and SWT ), there are native ports for Windows, Linux, OS X...even AIX/X11 ! One of the guys at work wrote a test harness for some server side software we were developing. He wrote it under Windows at work, and when we went to test it, the backend systems were running AIX, all they had to do was install a tgz onto the AIX box, and voila ! the test harness worked ...no recompiles...nada. Sure, Eclipse is Java, and for your needs you may want .NET, but then there's Mono again. The idea is that many people think that they HAVE to work with Windows. The fact is that more and more, the number of alternatives and options of what is available to them, is increasing...RAPIDLY.

Sofla......also from SoFLA here ! So....how long does that PB battery last, really ??

Mas sabe el diablo por viejo, que por diablo.

 

For 20 years they have been debating the merits of Mac and Windows across internet forums and chat rooms. It will never be settled of course. Probably if I was still a college kid or a big gamer I would have to say PC. My caution to you however is to really be careful. Mac's advantage on the Powerbook for example is that the thing is built like a tank. I have seen a lot of PC laptops, sorry to say, they can easily push 2 grand, and still you don't get much. Look at all the expensive laptos with integrated graphics, like Vaios FS series and Satellite A-45's and Qosmio. These things can push close to 2 grand, and what do you get? LOL... Vaio FS, you cannot (per Sony) even put more than 1gb of RAM into them, are they kidding? And I've had Vaio's that sound like vacuum cleaners with the fans, almost as bad as some Dell's. Qosmio, too heavy, limited battery life, outdated chip set, but you get a TV tuner, LOL.... On Dell, with the wireless, I'd almost swear you need
a 500 watt transmitter to connect. These guys are looking to cut costs so bad they will compromise on anything. So Apple, yea you will pay, but you will get quality, and if you compare fairly across the board, Powerbooks are easily competitive with these expensive Vaio and Toshiba's, and you can bet your not getting a fancy looking POS. If I was going PC laptop now I would probably go Avartec or Winbooks or something, stay away from these other guys who never seem to get a laptop config. right no matter how much it will cost.

Well that is my sermon. Battery life on the new Powerbook G4 15 inch really is pretty good, I actually did not expect to be pushing over 3 to 3.5 while running downloads and AirPort, but that really is what it has been running. So, I am very happy with that. The only thing is that the SuperDrive does whine a little bit on start up, but its minor. Otherwise, the thing is silent as a funeral home. Only other complaint, Apple tech support
is only 90 days if you don't buy the overpriced warranty which does not even include accidental damage, so that's a rip, but, you cannot have everything.

 

Has anybody considered LG notebooks? They're extremely expensive, but the build quality of their notebooks surpasses even Apple. So, IMO, if a person is willing to pay the price, they can find a higher quality PC notebook than Mac.

 

<blockquote id='quote'> quote:<hr height='1' noshade id='quote'>Originally posted by KrispyKreme50

 

For anyone basing their opinions on the look, sturdiness and style of a Mac, I'd suggest looking at the notebooks of the company that actually makes ibooks, etc. -- ASUS. The S5, W3V and V6V are the most beautiful laptops in existence today, and built as well or better than Ibooks and Powerbooks.

Still, I do agree that Apple products are beautiful and work well.

The opinion of a recent Asus convert.

 

have to agree on you with that....I'm a convert from Dell...and Asus made my dream/fantasy switch over from LG... :asus: :asus: :asus: :asus:

 

apparently the apple fans have never heard of IBM... If you want superior quality (the STANDARD of excellence), superior warranty and superior userability buy an IBM...

 

I know it's a matter of personal preference, but imo, Apple seriously needs to put enhanced screens in their next generation of notebooks.

 

IBM can't give you a really awesome design or Mac OS X though, and at the prices IBM charges... I'd take a Mac any day over the IBM.

 

If they won't do this, I will not buy their new PB. So simple it is.

Besides, high-end Apple computers/laptops seems to be overpriced for the specs given.

 

Keep in mind that the specs can't be directly compared to that of a Pentium M or Turion 64 etc. in terms of megahertz. A 1.5GHZ G4 is more than ideal for a laptop, the only problem with the PowerBook is the price. The 12" is too small of a screen for $1500, and $2000 is quite a bit for a 15".

I believe though that if your fed up with Windows, want Mac OS, and have the money, an iBook or PowerBook is a great choice.