How Rugged & Reliable Are Macs Physically?

I have been using PC for all my life, Dell to explain rather specifically. The reason was Windows being a lot more familiar to be and I did not quite like the design of Macs.

But I am starting to realize that so many PC makers of ultraportable laptops are sort of copying off the Macbook Pro look. And that kind of got me thinking, "hmm maybe the designs are not as bad as I thought?" And of course.. The battery life is quite attractive.

Anyways, I currently use couple of rugged systems but not in a field environment. I am running mostly school and business related applications, so the processing power (graphics specifically) is not so important anymore.

So how rugged are Macbook Pros? In regards to physical challenges like water spills, drops, and etc? I could not find specifications that indicate testings done.

And if I may add.. How relevant are Macs in the field of finance? At work do people actually use Macs or still just Dell Latitudes?

Thanks for you reply in advance! I really don't know anything about Macs!

 

Macs in general are extremely solid in build quality. The unibody aluminum case helps with that and with the addition of SSD's, I can't imagine anything being broken by a simple drop (worst case the screen cracks). However, they are EXTREMELY prone to water. I killed a macbook pro with some water going into the back vent. The keyboard area is also most likely game over.

Most people in finance don't use Macs. Excel shortcuts are terrible and the office suite for Mac is just not up to par for more advanced work.

 

treat them as high consumer, don't treat them as enterprise class, specially don't treat them as rugged enterprise class

water will kill it, to various degrees, I have spilled water and vodka on mine several times, once I dropped rum (lets not entertain the thought of why I was drinking rum), but its working I did had to change the mobo 3x because of a known bug with my model

depends on what kind of financial tools you are using? generally they don't have many financial platforms for macs and excel isn't as good as the windows counterpart aside that I haven't fiddled much with numbers (apple equivalent of excel)

 

Ah those are perfect answers to what I was looking for. Yeah I have heard that Macs are not too good with water (also had a friend who got water through that back vent and had to replace mobo).

Didn't know about that office suite situation neither. What I heard was that the appearances of the functionality were quite different with Macs. Treating as high end consumer line makes good sense.

 

Pretty much any laptop without drainage holes will be highly prone to liquid damage (not just Macs). Something like a Thinkpad, and iirc Toughtbooks, Latitude E6xxx/Precision, and most Elitebook will be exempt from most liquid damage.

All-metal laptops like the MBA/MBP are also prone to denting when physically abused, especially dropped onto a hard surface. And, depending on the forces involved, it might damage the electronics inside (display, motherboard, etc). But, this is true of any laptop with an all-metal body, since the metals used in laptops simply don't "bounce back" like ABS plastic does.

The thing you have to worry about the most, however, is serious damage and how to deal with (like a cracked screen, busted motherboard, etc). AppleCare will *not* cover accidental damage whatsoever (it's just an extended factory warranty in essence), so any repairs will be out-of-pocket, and Apple repairs can be pretty pricey (sometimes to the point of it being more cost effective to buy a new laptop instead). Not sure how a third-party service like SquareTrade would deal with this, though with a business-class laptop (or, I suppose a consumer-class laptop with NBD + Accidental), repairing such damage wouldn't be a problem for the most part. At worst, you might be out of a laptop for a day or two, but mostly things should be able to be fixed at your home/business the next day (NBD).

As for the software, not sure about financial software specifically. Though most places I've been to (some businesses, schools, etc), I usually see Dell or HP business-class laptops; funny enough, I've only seen Thinkpads at one place. I've yet to see a MBA/MBP used in a non-BYOD setting aside from that college student running a side-job as a web designer or some other basic at-home task.

 

I did use my mac on my broker work, from what I remember there were 2 platforms that worked on mac, so I used it mostly for communication and my desktop would serve as a platform holder

 

I've had my MacBook Pro since late November 2011 and have yet to have any problems with the computer. No overheating, no hard drive failure, no RAM issues, etc. I have dropped my computer a couple of times, but both times were onto a carpet, so no damage was caused to the computer. Also, through the 22 months that I've had my laptop, I've only managed to get two noticeable scratches on the bottom of the computer, a small, almost unnoticeable scratch on the lower rear corner of the lid, and a small nick around the Apple logo on the lid.

 

yep I had dropped my mbp several times already, I have 2 dents on it, on the dreaded ports corner and one on the front

still its a high end consumer, it doesn't have materials that won't look damaged like the ones used in the enterprise class, nor does it have a roll cage

 

you have to treat like a baby as dents are easy to come by due to the malleable aluminum and if you wear a watch then you can easily scratch the area around the trackpad, unless you are the type of person who just likes to get things done and doesn't care about the aesthetics of the laptop. It is like how many people are about eating food when hungry but not caring about the flavor that much.

 

Build quality and durability is far better than your average consumer-class PC and at least comparable to the highest of the high-end consumer-class PCs, but don't think for a second that it's built tougher than a ThinkPad or particularly a Toughbook.

I've got a 2008 MacBook Pro that's still ticking along just fine; half that time it was carried with me regularly. Only maintenance and repairs were replacing the battery a couple times, replacing the hard drive once, and periodic dusting of the interior. It has minor surface scratching on the aluminum but otherwise still looks and feels nice.

 

I have another thread on here somewhere from 2011 where I replaced my 2009 MBP unibody case with one from iFixit. I accidentally dropped my MBP onto the cement in my garage (about a 2 or 3 ft drop).

Here are some photos showing the damage. I was very fortunate that the display lid did not get damaged. Even though it looks terrible in these photos, the MBP continued to work perfectly.




<after photos in following post>...

 

<continued from previous post>...

The replacement unibody case was about $250 or $300 from ifixit (can't remember exactly).

I basically gutted the bad unibody of all internals and the display and transferred them to the new unibody case. The new unibody came with new backlit keyboard preinstalled, so that was about the only thing I did not transfer over from the old unibody case. If I remember correctly it took me about an hour or two to complete everything. I took my time for obvious reasons and it went smoothly.

The only trouble I had was when trying to loosen the display hinges from the old unibody case. They would not budge. So I used a vice-grip clamped onto the screwdriver... with a friend applying downward force on the screwdriver, I slowly turned the drive with the vice grips. That solution worked amazingly well in loosening the hinge screws.




So yeah, the MBP can be dented up if dropped. Again, I was very fortunate not to have to replace the display or lid, I hear that is quite expensive.

 

In my opinion, Macs are very well built but are not necessarily designed for abuse, if thats what you mean. The unibody/aluminum is more inclinded to dent, rather than break (again, generalizing here). As for spills/water, these things are not healthy and I'm not aware of any specific features that would set them apart.

As for finance, all I can say is that they run Excel just like a PC, and an array of personal finance application. I'm not sure about the enterprise though.

 

They are relatively rugged and very reliable. I have had no issues with my MBPs (knock on wood) but I've seen threads where people have dropped them from 3 feet only to see a few scratches/gashes. Others have dropped them from 2 feet and are left with a cracked screen.

 

I've used Mac's and PC's side by side since the old Mac IIci days, and Apple builds pretty reliable hardware. My current Macbook Pro is 6 plus years old. It had its motherboard replaced around 4 years old because the Nvidia 8600 chip failed (known engineering defect), and it got dropped about a year ago and the chassis has a dent. That is about it, its worked like a champ all this time, I've had three replacement batteries as they lose capacity over time.

Personally, I don't think you can get better built computer hardware. Which is good because they are so expensive I don't upgrade as often, especially in the old days when I could never afford a new Apple computer.

 

Panasonic would like to have a word with you about better-built computers

 

Toughbook Failure Rates - Toughbook Leads in Reduced Computer Failure Rates

I don't think Apple can top a professional level laptop either.

Apple laptops aren't made for people for are used to insanely high build quality (see Panasonic ToughPads or ToughBooks).

If you want high end (think engineering , scientific work , military usage, etc.) you aren't going to get anything good enough from Apple since they don't concern themselves with that. Panasonic and other specialized companies fill in that niche.

 

I don't know of any Apple laptops that are made for the military or any organization that demands great build quality.


There are some companies that do make stuff for the military though.
Panasonic Defense Solutions for the Army - Panasonic Solutions Company

 

With all that being said (see above) , for most people , Apple laptops are built well enough.

I'd take a military grade laptop over a consumer class one any day but that's just me.

 

You're confusing the toughness level of a notebook with it's build quality. A notebook/tablet/whatever doesn't have to be military grade, able to survive a nuclear attack just for it to have solid build quality. The Microsoft Surface 2 has pretty good build quality, above most tablets. It's a solid piece of tech yet I know it wouldn't survive for even a week out in the Iraqi desert. That doesn't mean the build quality is terrible, it just means that the tablet has good build quality for the market it was designed for. 99.9999% of consumers do not require military grade equipment for their own systems.

Not only that but many of those high grade systems, such as the Panasonic Toughbook lines, cut back on the features. The Panasonic Toughbook 31, their highest rated notebook in terms of toughness, is available with a maximum of a Core i5 CPU, low resolution display, paltry graphics, and limited storage capacities (320GB or 500GB HDDs, 128GB or 256GB SSDs). The vast majority of people don't need something like that and would rather go with a notebooks, such as an aluminum Sony Vaio, that have much better specs but don't feature needless military grade construction.

The ruggedness level of a notebook does not equate to build quality when it comes to consumer level notebooks. That is a misunderstanding and is only applicable for people who absolutely need that level of ruggedness. When it comes to consumer grade notebooks, the build quality of Macs are above and beyond most other consumer grade notebooks out there. They also tend to carry a higher cost so of course they should be.

 

Is built-tough the same as having high build quality?

MacBooks have excellent build quality, the best out of many laptops I've owned. But no they're not tough. There's almost no give anywhere in the chassis or outer shell, which is what makes it dent easily. Drop it just once and you're sure to put a dent on it somewhere. I'm careful with my stuff and I don't need it to perform in a military environment so I'm good. You know how some like to judge car build quality by slamming the doors, a nice solid muted thud usually signals better quality than a hollow clunk. Well closing the lid on a MBP gives me that nice solid muted thud.

 

You forgot to mention that ToughBooks have some of the brightest screens on the market which is great for outdoor use.
If you are sitting in an office all day you probably wouldn't care though.

BTW did you look at the new ToughPad?

Rugged PC Review.com - Rugged Notebooks: Panasonic ToughPad G1
http://www.ruggedpcreview.com/images2/toughpad_g1_test_results.pdf

Generally when I refer to build quality , I refer to the whole laptop and not just how the outside feels.
Rugged computers can take more abuse than the best built consumer laptops.

If a laptop takes a 1-2 feet drop, I expect no damage at all.
Although Macs are well built they can get dented fairly easily which is why most people have to be careful with them.

I'd rather have a laptop I can use almost everywhere rather than in only relatively safe areas.
My future job may not be limited to just being an office or whatever so I think of it as future proofing.

You also do realize that the failure rate for Panasonic laptops is extremely low , right?
I don't think any consumer class laptops can match that since they aren't made for important work.
In essence , consumer class laptops are more disposable and cheaper as a result of that.
At this point in time , I've grown to not like consumer laptops. They are missing too many features that I've become accustomed to.
No fingerprint reader , no high quality NBD warranty , less user serviceability (overall) , etc.

 

Tell us more, Mr. Science!

 

Well , I have to state the obvious.
Apple fanboys tend to forget that Apple makes consumer class laptops so they think Apple laptops can compete with high end business/professional class machines.

Apple laptops aren't even as well built as my ThinkPads.
Too bad some new models of the ThinkPad line are getting downgraded to compete with some Apple laptops.

I think the thin and light craze is getting out of hand and Apple is mainly to blame.

 

There's nothing wrong with having a MBP, a Thinkpad, Toughbook, etc. You just have to keep in mind that Apple produces consumer-class products and thus you shouldn't expect it to be exceptionally durable. If you want/need OSX, Apple's your best bet (obviously). If you're worried about your computer fashion and want to be all hip and such, Apple's a decent choice (though cliché, imo). Just don't mistake them for being especially tough.

Just anecdotal experiences, but most of the people I see around campus with MBPs and MBAs baby the hell out of those laptops due to the cost, and that's why their laptops last for so long. The only person with a MBP that I've seen mistreat it is to use the laptop as a "chalkboard" with his pencils, which surprised me first time I saw it. And a few weeks ago, someone's mainboard decided to die just before class, so he had to go to the campus IT department to get a new one (thankfully, the school covers stuff like that while still under AppleCare warranty, otherwise he'd been screwed by the cost of the mainboard). As for about a dozen others, I've seen those MBPs dented to hell (either one or two large dents, or many smaller ones); personally, I wouldn't call something that dents so easily as "durable". By that logic, my chair with a wobbly leg could also be classified as "durable" since it still works (just poorly).

On the other hand, I don't treat either of my laptops very well at all and I make no attempt to take care of my laptops other than the usual cleaning (wiping down keyboard, display, blowing out vents). Never, ever had a mechanical problem with my laptop other than popping a key on my W520 (only because I was taking a screwdriver to it and I was being an idiot), though NBD warranty took care of that. The W520's original battery also acted up early in the laptop's life, but thanks to a removable battery and NBD, that wasn't a problem after two days. And I've not heard of any problems with my friends' Precisions and Latitudes.

As for Toughbooks, there's a reason why they're used by the agencies that use them. Groups that simply can't have their laptops fail on them (police, emergency crews, military, etc) don't fool around with consumer-class laptops or even regular business-class laptops. One neat thing you could also do with those laptops is sterilize them (since they're completely sealed), something the medical community loves. Really, the only extreme environment that I've seen not use Toughbooks is the ISS, though they use Thinkpads that are typically attached to walls and such to keep them from moving around.

 

They might be bright but their quality still leaves a lot to be desired, especially when it comes to resolution.

No I didn't as it doesn't change any of my arguments.

So the highest quality consumer and business laptops would ALL have terrible build quality to you then as the Toughbook line is above and beyond all of them. Yep, that Lenovo you have is terrible because it can't survive a 5 ft drop. Might as well just throw it away and save up for that $3000 Toughbook in case aliens invade or for the eventual zombie virus outbreak.

So can every other consumer and business grade notebook. The right kind of drop will ruin anything. I've seen Dell business class notebooks ruined because they were dropped 2 ft onto thinly padded carpet. Does that mean they should of had a Toughbook instead? No, it just means they were clumsy and need to be more careful.

Unless your line of work requires it, buying a Toughbook "just in case" is drastic over-preparation. Everyone should buy an under equipped, $3000 Toughbook if we use your standards. That is absolute nonsense as Dell, Lenovo, HP, Acer, Asus, Sony, and Apple are all able to provide notebooks that are built more than well enough to last people years. The vast majority of people do not require a Toughbook, you're stretching scenarios and reaching for fantasy whenever you're arguing contrary to that.

The failure rate of a Toughbook is not enough to warrant its purchase for consumers. There is nothing about a Toughbook that makes it a required notebook for consumers, nothing. I've used a Toughbook but that is because I required a notebook to read information being sent to it from a water treatment system. Does that mean that I should have a Toughbook at home too? Absolutely not. I'm not going to use my notebook in a shower, on the roof of my apartment complex, outside in the rain, in the desert sand, or any other extreme situation you can think of. The vast majority of consumers and business workers won't do that either. There is nothing to warrant the purchase of a Toughbook for a consumer. Certain businesses? Sure. Certain agencies? Absolutely. The person who wants a notebook to use at home? Definitely no, it would be nothing more than a waste of money.

Again, I fail to see any logic in your arguments other than you being here to nitpick on Apple products (despite Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, and Sony all featuring the same setbacks). You bring up Apple fanboys yet there is another category that can be just as bad: anti-Apple fanboys.

 

BTW I wasn't aware that 1920 x 1080 on a 10" tablet was horrible ( see the new ToughPad).


All the Acer laptops I've use were a joke and one of them died on me while I was testing it.
The Sony ones I've used had Wifi problems.
Most of the $200 Dells I used had a horrible keyboard and touchpad.
My ThinkPads don't use high end IPS panels as they should.
Apple still uses 1280 x 800 TN panel screens on their 13" MacBook Pro.


It seems consumer class laptops are going to be less customizable (like Apple laptops) as time goes on.

Different products exist for different reasons.
On some other forum or thread I admitted that even my ThinkPads aren't good enough for certain jobs (and that's where ToughPads might come in).

No Apple laptop (of course a Sony , Acer , etc. ) is going to match my W530 in durability but it doesn't need to.

I always need a dependable laptop that I can easily switch out some parts if needed. Apple doesn't provide that , neither does Acer. For that matter , I don't think many companies make laptops like that.

It seems I'm always going to end up needing multiple laptops.

 

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

 

Stuff in this thread was said before.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/app...most-reliable-laptop-world-3.html#post9261273 (beware of false advertising)

 

Ehh.. gold laptops look like crap imo. And the left looks somewhat like Acer's R7 (minus trackpad at the top of the body).

 

The Acer R7 is only about 9 years newer than that Sony on the left

 

Anyway, back to durability, I found these interesting test videos on the Lenovo subforum: http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo/735432-thinkpads-still-tough-stand-yours-prove.html

It's a CNet video, so I'm not confident that they're unbiased (they've already disproved themselves with the way they've handled other companies like Dish), so either they were lucky on the water test or replaced the mainboard. The other tests were very careful, relatively-speaking. Though the merits of that video were already discussed on another Apple/OSX thread.

 

I have a lenovo 420 that my work gave me. I use it a lot without a mouse and it looks like total crap in many ways. My Macs are flawless.

 

People tend to treat work-issued laptops like crap, since it's not their personal property. However, people tend to treat their own laptops pretty well.

 

Funny how that is. :-\ My first company issued laptop got the same good treatment as my other laptops. Then again I tend to be careful with all computers I deal with from my own, to my employer's and even my own client's.

Really enjoying some of these arguments and points. ::grabs popcorn::

Sent from my M470BSA using Tapatalk 2

 

And I wasn't aware that we had moved from notebooks to tablets. I'm sorry, silly me.

Of course every manufacturer is going to have issues with some of their lines. I wasn't talking about the cheap $200 all plastic notebooks. Pick up a Dell XPS 15 and it's construction is more than solid enough to last someone 2-4 years of use, the same goes for many other notebooks from most other companies. You've made the connection that cheap notebooks are cheap. That's pretty insightful. We are all aware of that and know that a $1200 notebook will have better build quality (and internal components) than a $250 Acer. That's just common sense.

Yes, aftermarket customization options seems to be decreasing as newer notebooks keep coming out. People initially lambasted Apple for not really allowing aftermarket modifications on the MacBook Air lines but then other companies started coming out with ultrabooks that were similar in concept. That's how manufacturers can increase battery life, make thinner units, etc. Some sacrifices have to be made and the average consumer really doesn't care. The only people who care about aftermarket upgrades are those who know about them (you and me). Most everyone else buys a notebook as-is and uses it until the thing dies. They don't care that it comes with 8GB of RAM and they can't upgrade it, they don't care about not being able to pop out the HDD/SDD to put a higher capacity drive in there, none of that matters to the average notebook consumer. They just want something to be reliable that will last them a set amount of time (mostly 2-4 years). You don't need a Toughbook for that.

For certain jobs? Absolutely. For everything that you implied in your previous post? Definitely not. Toughbooks fit an extreme niche of consumers, mainly those in certain businesses that require PC access in extreme conditions. I gave you an example of where we purchased a Toughbook. It was for a specific purpose though. Home consumers just don't need that.

Right, they don't need to. Not everyone requires a business-class notebook for home use. So why should people be focused on getting a Toughbook as you said in your previous post?

Apple did actually provide that experience with the standard MacBook Pro lines. They are dependable and many aspects (RAM, HDD, and even the optical drive) can be upgraded down the line. I have a friend with a 2010 13" MBP that is still ticking just fine more than 3 years down the line. I would say that is pretty dependable. He's also upgraded some internal components over time. Can you do that now with a MBPr? Nope, that market has since shifted to units that don't support aftermarket upgrades. Now, these different companies (including Apple) may not be able to provide the experience you want and that is perfectly fine. That doesn't mean that they aren't producing reliable systems though. Trying to use panic logic to justify a Toughbook, which is what you were doing in your previous post, is complete nonsense.

 

Too some extent I would say it depends on the person of course build quality also is a major factor, but in general taking care of your things helps a lot. The problem with macbooks are that they easily get scratched and such. A Thinkpad looks kind of dull from the first day and therefore a can of compressed air and a cloth can make it look 95% like new even after 5 years of usage

My sister had a 12" Ibook some years back and she was having it in a sleeve and in general taking care of it in a normal way and not overprotecting. after two years of usage she sold it to my cousin and after 6 weeks it was a complete mess with coffee stains and creaked plastic due to being dropped several times

 

^^^ Well, I also use rubbing alcohol to take care of the keyboard, but I see your point . Thinkpads look dull, but some of us like that.

True, good, responsible individuals can treat their work-issued equipment as if it were their own. Though most people put priority on their personal belongings when taking care of things.

 

At work I have a pile of broken, damaged, bent, shattered MacBook Pros, 2009-2012 vintage.
Next to that pile, I have a pile of broken, damaged, bent, shattered Lenovo ThinkPad T/W-series laptops.

I use them to cannibalize for parts. It's depressing to have so many Mac carcasses.

I recently "inherited" a 15" Retina that was apparently dragged on the ground along the front. The screen is fine and functionally it's perfect (using it right now) but the whole front is chipped and dinged and the bottom has bent areas near there. It also had a bunch of broken keys that I managed to replace using keycaps from an old Air.

So really, as sturdy as Laptop X is, someone is gonna break it.

 

Yes, depending on the person and usage. My work Thinkpad T500 is pretty worn out due to a lot of travel etc. but my private T60 is as pretty as new, but has almost only been standing on my home desk since I bought it.

However in general I would say that high end business line laptops like Thinkpads, Elitebooks, latitude, precision and Macbook Pros are in a better build quality than other laptops. But I would say that Thinkpads and Elitebooks is on top of all of them, at least for previous generations.

 

It's a good point and you're mostly correct. I use my Macs for work to though. To be specific about something, I can say without a doubt the trackpad on the Lenovo is a total nightmare of wear and tear, whereas, the glassy Mac trackpad is utterly unblemished.

 

Which Lenovo laptop are you talking about?

BTW Lenovo and HP also use glass trackpads in some models of their laptops.

 

So are you all staying that MacBook Pros aren't good for people who travel a lot? I'm on the verge of being a ThinkPad user the last 10 years and switching to Apple now. But I'm a student and always on the go. The notebook is constantly pulled out of and put back into my backpack.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

 

I think people who own ThinkPads and Apple laptops say that ThinkPads can take a bit more of a beating.
ThinkPads satisfy some MIL Specs unlike Apple laptops so they are definitely more durable.

 

Probably the older models. My W520's trackpad is almost completely smooth due to all the use it has gotten. However, I use the TrackPoint far more often, so it's not a real issue for me, just cosmetic.

 

From what I've seen the new glass track pads in thinkpads are even worse. They show a lot of wear almost immediately.

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The trackpad on my W530 is still like new but I've only had my W530 since July of 2012 so it only has about 1.25 years of usage.

 

Macs are not rugged. While the aluminum exterior is aesthetically pleasing and has a fit/finish that is unmatched by other manufacturers, the aluminum is prone to scratching and denting. Comparing Macs to ThinkPads in terms of ruggedness is just an insult to ThinkPads. There are YouTube videos of people hurling their ThinkPads from balconies or against trees and then booting up with everything fully functional. Macs are not designed for ruggedness in any sense of the word.

 

And recovering them from a house fire, too

 

My mac's have always had exceptionally long service lives, so I consider them more rugged than most.

My most recent lasted 7 years, and had one dent in the frame from being dropped. It had no other obvious scratches even after 7 years of my watch interacting with the wrist wrest area. The track pad looked identical to when it was purchased, no wear, shine. Keyboard was normal looking with no wear on the keys. Other than the dent in the frame, the unit looks mint.