Help me switch to Apple: worried about fan noise

I'm a potential switcher, longterm Windows user who wants to buy a 15" MBP. My partner has the 15" last generation MBP (I think with a 9400M/9600M), and the new high resolution screens (at last!) are enough to make me want to switch too, finally.

However whenever we use anything graphics-intensive (e.g. Second Life), the fans go crazy. They don't sound bad, rattly or ill, but in comparison to my Windows laptop (with an 8600M card), it's like a plane taking off. I spend a lot of time on SL, and I couldn't bear it. What I don't know is if they're faulty or if this is just to be expected on a Mac.

The new MBPs are obviously more capable graphically, but I expect pretty soon after starting SL fans would still need to run fast. It's hard to do comparative judgements of course, but could someone who runs graphics-intensive apps (preferably Second Life, but whatever) please tell me if I'm likely to encounter such fan noise on the new MBPs? I'd likely use a lap cooler of some sort, but I need to be able to use this standalone too.

While I'm here, if someone who knows much more about graphics could tell me if Second Life specifically would benefit significantly from the 512M GT 330M rather than the 256M, I'd be grateful. I'm aware it's more capable generally of course, but I don't want to overspend if SL can't make the most of it.

Thanks!

 

I don't believe second life is that demanding on the gpu, as wmw71190 said its most likely your processor that is causing the problem. It could be stressing it, or there could just be a kernel problem. As an example - I play crysis on my apple (and did on my '07 model too). Crysis is much more demanding in terms of gpu and cpu than second life, yet I never had any fan problems.

 

Hm, thanks. I currently run SL on a windows machine with an 8600M GPU (256M) and SL is definitely limited by the card, so I want to make sure my next buy is a good leap forwards.

Kernel/software: my partner's MBP's OSX is up to date and using the latest SL clients.

I'm not much of a Mac user yet, so treat me as an idiot (although I am comfortable and happy with Linux and thus probably OSX internals). I'm happy to try any diagnostics suggested on my partner's MBP to convince myself that noise could go away. Could you start me off on what to look at?

Zarzak, your comments about Crysis are encouraging. When you say no fan problems - when they kick in (without a cooler) are they still fairly silent?

 

Yes they are, as much as fans can be. I have very good hearing, and can hear high-pitched electric whines and the like, and these fans did not bother me. They were completely inaudible if I had any sort of music on.

Do you know if it is an 8600M GT or an 8600M GS?

 

OK that's interesting - my partner's MBP's sound like a jet.

My current windows laptop has a 8600M GT, and I have to run SL on low graphics, or medium at a push.

 

Its likely something involving software then - that means the fans are running full blast continuously.

As for 256 vs 512 ... I'd say you want the 512 330M GT, but it only has a 128 bit bus ... I don't know how that interacts with the 256 vs 512 issue.

 

SL pushes the machine harder than it should. You'll be having the fans at 5000 to 6000 rpm most of the time... just like it does in heavy gaming. At that speed the fans are noticeable. The only laptops I've found that can be pushed hard without noticeable fans, are ones that are really huge comparatively... with more room for heatsink and air flow... with bigger fans that can run slower RPMs and cool just as much.

SL doesn't really run fast on hardly any machine, but you'd be able to run it on Ultra in most areas unless there were like 40+ people around I believe... but I'm not sure thats going to be a huge difference from a 8600, but it should be noticeable. You'll get better graphics on SL if you don't use the slider, and use the custom settings and set exactly what you what and what you don't mind being lower.

In SL, i doubt you'll see a difference in a 512 or 256, maybe gray textures a bit less often, if like spinning in a circle, but your connection speed to the servers make the most difference since unlike most online "games" this is streaming basically everything to you, not just positions of things.

I'd also suggest using an older based client off of the 1.4 SnowGlobe viewers.. like the Emerald Betas. Viewer 2.0 ran like total $#!^ for me compared to the older viewers on the same machine.

 

Yeah, my big 17" Dell is huge and ugly, doh123 - hope I'm not doomed to choose between ugly and non-portable, and beautiful and loud. Although I need a cooling stand even for that with SL. And yes, I use the Emerald client.

I currently get on average the following FPS on my Dell/8600M/256M:
Mid: 12FPS
High: 9FPS
Ultra: 5FPS

From this I assume that with a better graphics card (and more CPU) these figures would improve dramatically? But is the 330M (with 256) going to make a dramatic difference to this? Secondly, from what you're saying, I might be better to stick to the i5/256 models, as the i7/512 won't help much (and I assume might be hotter)?

Do you run SL on one of the new MBP's doh123? I'm guessing not, but if you do, I'd really gain some comfort factor from switching if someone could tell me it's not very loud - or as loud as I'm hearing on my partner's older Unibody.

Finally, people suggested a kernel problem may be responsible above. If anyone can suggest diagnostics I could use to find what's making those fans boom, I'd gain some comfort from proving to myself it may not be a permanent problem.

 

the fans spin fast because they need to. I have some hearing issues, so I'm not the best to say how loud or annoying they are, but I've been told its easy to ignore it and you forget its even there... so I doubt its that super loud, maybe the one you've heard has a slightly bad fan thats making some unusual noise?

I use SL on a MBP 13" 2010... the 320m IGP works pretty good, the 330m should be even better. Of course frame rates vary depending on where you are.. and how well built the area you are in is... some people built horrid places that run like total $#!^. With Emerald Beta 2270, my frame rates are around (if I use default settings, in non-crowded open door areas)...
low - 27 to 34 fps
med - 23 to 32 fps
high - 19 to 30 fps
ultra - 10 to 19 fps

in a crowded (37 people) open door area...
low - 15 to 20 fps
med - 11 to 17 fps
high - 10 to 14 fps
ultra - 7 to 10 fps

 

I have a new 15" Core i5 with the Nvidia GeForce GT330m card and I play SL (when I have nothing else to do as it's really just a waste of time IMO) and my fans either don't come on or they are very silent when I'm playing the game. When I do decide to waste time on SL I'm on it for a good hour or so and my MBP stays very silent and moderately warm.

 

No, MBP's are loud if you're doing something actually stressful. Your average user just iTunes'ing and randomly browsing web-sites won't hear anything because those things don't stress the CPU.

 

Wrong, Period! Check my post before yours.

 

I have the older core 2 duo version and my ears don't pick up any fan sounds either.

 

This is all great news - thanks for all contributing. I can confirm that my partner's MBP (I think Fall 2009, 9600M) really does sound like a jet engine within 1 minute of starting SL, so something's up (and very happy to take clues as to what to look at - it's up to date, but I'm an OSX novice). I assumed this was par for the course. There's no way you could ignore that noise while playing music. The fans don't sound rattly or bad - just loud.

Coupled with that I read some reports about severe problems with SL and the 330m on OSX overnight - see later comments in this report on the SL Jira and linked issues. There are anecdotal claims that 10.6.4 fixed the problem - HLdan and others, can you confirm this?

 

Oh and HLdan - how much video memory do you have, and what setting graphics so you use on SL to have it stay near silent (Low/Mid/High/Ultra)?

 

Use SmcFanControl to set max fan speed, you will have a silent notebook. I always set it to max 3000rpm, no gaming, perfect for me.

 

smcfancontrol sets the minimum fan speed, not the max... unless you manually go edit the plists to change it around, even then it doesn't work all the time on all systems.

 

Don´t know about new machines, but runs perfect on old c2d .

 

Well, to be honest, before your post I never knew you could change the graphics settings on SL. As I mentioned I only play it occasionally and I thought the graphics were dependent upon the internet bandwidth. After reading your OP I changed the graphics to Ultra Quality, UI size is 1.15, 128MB Texture Memory, all shaders are checked, Reflection Detail is set to Everything and AA is turned off. Before the changes everything was set to low to medium quality.

After the changes and about an hour of playing SL I can't tell the difference in heat on the Macbook, the fan was actually running but I couldn't hear it unless I put my ear near the ports. It just sounded like a nice breeze of soft air coming out of the vents.

The Nvidia GT 330M isn't fully compatible with SL as of yet. I have the latest version of SL which is Viewer 2 but each time I log on a message appears saying my GPU isn't recognized but it works just fine. My MBP has 256MB of video memory.

 

HLdan, very encouraging that you're not hearing much sound. Not worried about the SL non-compatibilty messages, it happens frequently.

Any chance that you could tell me what FPS you're getting in SL with the various settings? On Windows you can see FPS with shift-control-1, but not sure is it's the same on a Mac.

 

I don't use Windows but on Mac OS X it's Shift-Command-1 so thanks for that, I wouldn't have known how to do FPS on Mac. In terms of the FPS on SL it really varies depending on what your doing in the game. I hang out a lot in the dance club rooms and on Ultra Quality I get anywhere from 10-20FPS. Generally about 10FPS when there's a lot of people dancing in the chat room. When I walk through areas where there are very few people the FPS jumps to about 15-20FPS. In Medium Quality I would get about 15FPS with a lot of people dancing and about 20FPS in Low Quality. Incidentally, when in Medium Quality and just a few people around I get about 25-35 FPS.

The FPS scores are not HIGH but are decent for the 330 and Apple is expected on the next software update to include updated drivers for the Nvidia graphics cards.

 

Thanks! 25-35 empty sounds respectable. I'm kind of hoping I could run at Ultra but it sounds not.. Having been reassured about fan speed, now I guess I have to decide between expense and beauty (MBP) and super hot graphics in a nasty big body on a Dell/Asus...

 

Another change that will help is if you open the Debug menu (CTRL-ALT-D) and under "Rendering" check the "Enable Multiple Threads" option. SL still thinks everyone has a single core CPU and disables this by default.

 

KimoT: already enabled!

Grr, I measured and am actually already getting 29FPS on a very quiet sim in High, and 22FPS in mid on my 3 year old 8600M Windows laptop. On that basis OSX+330m doesn't seem like an improvement at all based on figures above.

Someone give me a reason to still buy at MBP!

 

That does not take into account that the 330 is probably running with more effects enabled...the 8600 struggles with full atmospheric effects and water reflections. You might get the same FPS, but it will look better.

 

Ah I see - so even with the same settings the 330M may be displaying more? I was hoping to be able to run permanently on Ultra with high FPS.. or at least being able to do that now would prove to me it would be good for 3 years