Hello 8800m, hello new Macbook Pro?

So, what are your toughts?

Alienware is humping this monster of a 8800m GTX in a 15" chassis. Apple next?

Would love it.

Okay now for the braniacs who a couple of weeks back were all like "you can't fit 8800 into a 15" laptop", "blah", "blah", "Apple WILL NEVER blah", "blah", do yourselves a favor and just type google.com in your browser address bar, thanks

 

Well...it might be under clocked by a fair amount...

 

I don't know - one thing I haven't seen anyone state yet is the weight or thickness of that 15" Alienware machine.

Somehow I suspect that the 8800M might do OK in that Alienware chassis, but I'm not so sure it would run properly in a 1" thick chassis like the current MBP.

The issue isn't just "can you fit it into a 15" chassis", cause obviously Alienware has shown you can. But can you fit the 8800M and whatever heat it generates into the MBP's chassis specifically?

-Zadillo

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see an 8800m in a MBP upon next refresh. Of course, they may go the route of an HD3850/3870 if there's a mobile version by then. Either way, it'll be a step up if they do upgrade.

But then you have to look at how long the x1600 was in the MBP before it was update(anybody have dates?). I know it was a really long time.

 

if this ever happens I am going to upgrade immediately. im tired of the weak x1600

 

The thing is, the X1600 was in the MBP pretty much up until the point there was a significantly better new GPU to replace it with. As I understand it, even if Apple had replaced it with an X1700 or even a GeForce Go 7700, the performance improvement wouldn't have been dramatic.

The 8600M GT became available with the MBP pretty quickly (coinciding with the Santa Rosa update).

So if the 8800M was suitable for the MBP chassis, I wouldn't be surprised to see the next MBP update get it.

So far though I am not clear on whether it would be.

-Zadillo

 

Just read through the alienware thread to see if anyone had actually posted details of the physical dimensions/etc. yet.

The most I could read was people commenting that the chassis appeared to be very thick (I think someone suggested 2.5" thick...... not sure if its that thick though, but who knows) and that the chassis overall seemed pretty large (with a pretty large bezel around the 15" screen).

So I just suspect that the only way you're seeing an 8800M in a 15.4" chassis is by making it fairly large and thick (and presumably heavy). I wouldn't count on seeing Apple release a thick machine......

 

I cant see it being 2.5'' tbh...thats kind of over the top maybe 1.5'' (excluding screen).

 

It's not just the heat, even with a 65nm process, a 8800M is going to use quite a bit more power than the current 8600M GT, and I can't see Apple giving up it's battery 6 hr battery life claims. And it was mentioned in the gaming forum that the Alienware M15x sells for $1300 at base configuration, and the 8800M is a $500 upgrade. There is no way Apple is going to bump up their prices by that much and make it a stock configuration and even as an option it's extremely unlikely since they'd have to redesign the thermal characteristics of the whole 15" line just to support a low volume, high-priced option.

The likely outcome of what's coming in January is that the 8600M GT will remain, but the RAM amounts will probably be doubled to 256MB base and 512MB higher-end, since 128MB is getting ridiculous now. The clock speeds will probably be bumped up a bit too, like how the X1600 in the Napa Core 2 Duos were clocked higher than the Napa Core Duos. If Apple is generous they may offer the 8700M GT as an option for the 17" since it has the thermal room, and the 8700M GT is just an overclocked 8600M GT anyways so they probably don't even need to start a separate supply chain. nVidia might even give Apple a deal on the 8700M GT if Dell, Alienware, and other gaming laptops are moving over to the 8800M.

 

You will never see that high end of a card in a MBP. First issue is that the chassis of the MBP is way too small to accommodate it. Second is the power issue, battery life with that thing would be terrible. Honestly, if graphics are that important to you, get a desktop.

 

The 8600 doesn't have the memory bandwidth to really take advantage of 512 MB. They should just make 256 MB standard across the board and maybe bump the clock speeds a bit on the higher-end models.

 

I'll agree with that. On Apple's current design and roadmap, I don't see something like this showing up. But if Apple decides to revamp, then maybe.

 

The 8800 might happen on the 17 inch MBP, maybe even the 15". Before everyone goes crying foul about heat and all, you guys should remember how hot the 6800 ran, and that card is about as fast as today's 8400!

 

Lets hope to god nothing like that shows up... That would be... retarded.
I know some people like to game on their laptops, but after having actually owned a gaming laptop, they are a complete waste of money.

I think that the x1600 I have draws too much power as is. Besides heat issues you would have NO battery life. I'm still hoping for a 15" version of the MBP that has no dedicated video card. I need the screen real estate, but I want more battery life.

And people don't buy MBP for gaming machines. One would be better off getting a MB and then spending a grand to a grand in a half in a powerful gaming desktop.

 

I think that the 8800GTX will make the notebook thicker but either the 8800Gs or the 8700GTX would work perfectly with todays confg. What I think Apple needs mandatory is the 8700Gt so many people have bought a Hp8710P over a MBP because of the GPU difference. THe 8700GT is what I call the professional card it is not too weak like the 8600GT, but it isn't as radical as the 8800 series. Also it is the preferable card for 3D work because they do not, need(not all the time anyway) very high end cards it puts a dent in budget, but the 8700Gt is not weak but not very expensive either.

 

Won't happen. Apple doesn't update stuff for the heck of it. Look at how they rode herd on the X1600 and look at the Mac Pro lineup.


AnandTech on 8800M

Not too slim there.

 

If apple updates the 17" version with a better graphics card, I would get that. I know it's better and cheaper to game on a desktop, but I prefer to be mobile, and I like to have my laptop with me at all times. Weight is not really an issue so a 17" mbp would not bother me at all. Some people just prefer to game anywhere they want and run games at decent settings.

 

Yeah but the Clevo 570RU has been built for bigger video cards, I still believe they could put 1 8700Gt in or 2 8600Gs in sli, how does that sound?

 

I dont know about 2 8600's on the 15, but I do think apple is dropping the ball by not putting a more powerful card, like the 8700GT, on the 17" model, especially to support the higher 1680x1050 and 1920x1200 resolutions. The model has more room to dissipate heat like some members have already pointed out, but I guess it was the same thing with the craptastic x1600. Oh well.

 

I've said the 8600M GT doesn't have the power to take advantage of 512MB of VRAM many a time myself, but I was thinking that since Apple seems to like to maintain their existing price points, we might as well 512MB of VRAM if Apple isn't going to drop the price any.

nVidia is planning to release the G98 which is a 65nm shrink of the 8600M GS and 8400 series, for desktops in December. I was thinking a 65nm version of the 8400M GS or GT would be the perfect candidate for an ultra-portable MBP, although nVidia hasn't mentioned when the mobile version of the G98 will be available. Personally, I'm hoping for the G96 which is a 65nm shrink of the 8600M GT and 8700M GT. A 8700M GT in the thermal profile of the 8600M GT would be perfect for the MBP, but I doubt nVidia will have it ready for Macworld. ATI also has 55nm shrinks of their mid-low end GPUs, but the mobile versions aren't due until Q2 for the Montevina platform.

 

Forget about the MBP. Apple needs to stick a high-end NVIDIA GPU in the iMac. And update the Mac Pro.

 

I think what Apple needs is a new desktop tower. The Mac Pro is way too high-end, the iMac is at times not the best desktop computer (hard to upgrade, using notebook components, can't adjust or change display). I'd like a Mac desktop tower that is between the iMac and Mac Pro, and I think that would have the nice graphics card options.

 

With the constant worries about the future of the Mini, I was thinking maybe Apple would increase it's size a bit and make it user upgradable, something like a Shuttle XPC. I would guess maybe twice the size of the Mini, but still half the size of a Shuttle. It would just need to have enough space to fit a single "average" size double slot graphics card, nothing ridiculously long like the HD 3870X2 is looking to be. To save space, the DVD and HDD will be laptop sized, but there should be space for 2 2.5" HDDs and 1 optical drive, allowing a RAID setup. They'll probably stick to mobile chipsets and processors, although Shuttle has designs that even use quad core Xeon processors, so you'd think Apple could do desktop processors if they tried. Although I think the reason why the don't use desktop processors is simply that they would have to put in separate orders for mobile, desktop, and Xeons, which means they don't get as big bulk discounts.

A design like this doesn't have the expandability or power to compete with a Mac Pro or the form of the iMac. But, it does give expandability where it counts, in the graphics card (a single dual slot or a single slot and another expansion card) and the HDD. Although, I believe graphics cards need to have special BIOSes to work with EFI, so it's not like PC graphics cards can just be put in without extra work.

 

The thing is the Big seller right now for Apple is the MBP, although like Sam said it would be great if they had a mid ranged desktop, maybe a cheaper cinema display as well.

 

The 8800M would be clocked at around 100/100 to stay useable inside a MBP.

 

Here is why the 8800M series GPU will never appear in the MBP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_8

Scroll all the way down to the Geforece 8 Mobile section and you will see the power consumption.

If the MBP can't handle a 8700M GT, then it is never going to handle a 8800M. All talk from here on out is just wishful thinking. Unless the MBP gains 0.5 inch or more in thickness to accommadate this, and if Steve Jobs doesn't think that games are a waste of time, then its doable. I believe its the latter that you will need to convince IF this is going to happen.

 

Not sure what you mean by here, but the 570RU is 1 card only, it has no option for SLI. Only the Clevo 900C/901C has that configuration.

 

Apple Store says their biggest seller is the MB. MBP isn't even in the top 10.

 

You would want to look at Apple's actual sales numbers for everything - not the top 10 list on their online store. The MBP is still one of their top sellers (although the MacBook is as well; with laptops in general representing a large portion of Mac sales).

-Zadillo

 

I think Ichigo's right...as far as I've heard, since the MacBook was released it has been Apple's best-selling Mac in its current lineup.

You guys have to remember that Apple's market is more than just the techies like us who hang around forums. The not-so-technologically-knowledged, most of them absolutely adore the MacBook, as they see $2000 for a notebook as way too expensive.

 

A surprising number of art students get Macbook Pros because they think they need the graphics card. I've upset quite a few of my classmates(Major in CS, Minor in Graphic Arts) by telling them that a regular Macbook would have done fine for them, seeing as how 90% of their work is in Photoshop or Illustrator.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a trend at most universities.

related note: In my graphic design class there are 5 mbps, 2 mbs, 1 dell, 1 hp, 1 sony, and 1 alienware.

 

How true...I read about that quite a lot .

 

Personally, using those apps on a 1200x800 screen would be pretty cramped. Not that 1440x900 is a whole lot better, but it's better.

I've long since complained that Apple does not offer 1680x1050 on the 15" MBP.

True those apps do not "need" a video card in the same way Motion or After Effects or a 3d app would, but the video card frees the CPU and the system RAM and it drives an external monitor with more authority. I view the laptop as a system, and a video card without a doubt, helps the system perform.

 

My point was that you can't really judge things based on the "top 10" list in the Apple Online store.

Of course, it shouldn't be surprising that they are going to sell more $1000-1500 machines than $2000-2500 machines.

But the MBP still does very well for Apple - I don't think they actually do break down the sales performance of individual models though. All they said in the last Q3 earnings report was that notebook sales were up 42% over the same period last year, and represented 64% of total Mac sales.

-Zadillo

 

I think it would be awesome if the macbook pro and maybe the macbook got blu-ray drive upgrades next year. The macbook pro is understandable but the macbook's resolution is a little low, but if I remember correctly, the Sony Vaio FZ has the same reslution (1200 x 800) and it has a blu-ray drive and from what I've witnessed it looks quite amazing. Kind of branching off that topic, apple really should bump up the res on the macbook I think maybe like a 1440 x 900 get a little better pixel density in there...

 

Agree... Lets get a real desktop option. You either have AIO iMac... or Server level.

There just are no options for gamers who want to have a mac. No gamer needs a server system, and the imac is just not good enough.

 

Exactly but there are even less options for notebook mac gamers, they seriously need to upgrade there graphics cards. The new ATI 3 series have small dies compared to the nvidia 8 series. The ATI is at 55nm and the 8600GT is 80nm huge difference the ATI can be more powerful with less power and heat consumption.

 

i doubt the MBP will get a 8800. its got the 8600 in it already.

next gen cards will be more likely. the 9xxx cards, if thats the next lineup

i dont see it to be very beneficial to apple to update video cards that fast. they usually keep what they have in there for at least one intel update

 

That makes sense because Motevina platform is around the time that mobile 9 series gpu's come out.