Going from a PC to a MAC ...

Hey guys,

I'm a musician who's thinking about making the move to a Mac from a PC. Currently I'm using Reason 3.0, ReCycle 2.1 and Adobe Audition 2.0, and a M-Audio Audiophile 2496 for my soundcard on my PC. I have an AMD Athalon 64 3500+ (2.2GHz) processor, a 75 Gig 10,000Rpm 8Mb cache Hardrive, and 1 Gig of PC-3200 RAM (2 x 512Mb sicks running in Dual Channel), running on Windows XP Pro. This setup has run Reason 3.0 really well for me for a couple of years now, but I need something more powerfull, I want to do more tracks and expand more.

The reasons why I'm wanting to make a move to a MAC is all the issues that the Intel 945PM Chipset (Intel Core 2 Duo) is causing with the Windows based laptops, from what I've read in many articels. I've seen many a ***** about the firewire stuff, and something about Direct Procedure Call latency. And other wacky things. To be honest, I've kind of had it up to here with Windows, crap doesn't ever seen to work 100% all the time. The laptop I was going to buy was a fully loaded Compal HEL-80, with Windows XP Pro ... but I've been reading bad things about it and some music programs (Pro Tools, Cubase). So after much fearmongering, and tiring windows action .. I'm ready for the unifired architecture that is Apple. Plus, Vista blows monkey chunks.

So I've got a couple of questions for you Intel Mac owners, what are the big diffs between the Macbook and the Macbook Pro? If I'm only interested in doing music stuff, and maybe photoshop, should I just stay with Macbook? Here's my Macbook config :

2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA drive @ 5400 rpm
Superdrive 6x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Apple Mini-DVI to DVI Adapter
Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook/iBook - Auto-enroll
AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth

Subtotal $1,691.00

It's a shame there's no 7,200 rmp hardrive option. Ugh. Will this be able to run Leapord as well? Sorry, I have to ask ... I've never owned an Apple product before.

If you suggest Macbook Pro, than this is the config I can afford.

2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
SuperDrive 6x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
Accessory Kit

Subtotal $1,957.00

And I wouldn't be able to afford that AppleCare Protection Plan for the Macbook Pro.

I learn really quickly, so I know it won't take long for me to get to learn the GUI and such. I really look forward to learning a new system actually. I'm tired of dealing with dodgy b.s. on Windows based laptops, I just want to be able to play vsts/soft synths and record stuff without a hassle. I need a laptop, for some serious music action.

If you think that I should go with the Macbook Pro, please list your reasons ... or anybody chime in here please. If I go with the Macbook, then I might have more money to invest in more music programs which is a plus, so please help me decide!!!

I'm also a student so I figured in my discounts on both laptops above, and I only have $2,000 (usd) for a new laptop.

Again any suggestions/comments are highly appreciated thanks!!!

 

Processor and performance-wise the two computers would be nearly identical. You can certainly run Leopard on both. You can run your old Windows programs using Parallels or Boot Camp as well. I thought you could get a 7200rpm option on both, but I may be mistaken. You can also find instructions on the web on how to do the hard drive swap yourself. It's easy on the MacBook but may be a bigger pain on the MacBook Pro.

The main reason for going with the Pro is for a better graphics card and higher screen resolution for basically the same weight computer. I don't think you'd care about the former but the latter is nice to see bigger windows or more windows. If you've got the budget, go for it. Many people get AppleCare, but I've never. If it's going to have a problem, it will happen right away while it's still under warranty (like the initial overheating and fan problems that have since been fixed). AppleCare wouldn't cover physical damage and drops anyway, so you'll want to be careful with it in any case. The other way to save a few hundred bucks is to get a refurb.

 

I see no real reason for you to go with the MacBook Pro over the MacBook. The only possibility is if you wanted to use an ExpressCard, but other than that the MacBook should be fine. The hard drive on the MacBook is user-replaceable and will not void your warranty if you do upgrade. I would definitely suggest going 7200 RPM as soon as you can. If you are going to record tracks the faster the drive the better.

 

You can also get a 160gb 5400rpm drive, since the performance on those are only slightly less than the 100 gb 7200 drives (lower rpm, but higher densitiy), and you get 60 gb more storage. You can check performance at http://www23.tomshardware.com/storage25.html

 

Nice chart fabarati.. thanks for the link. I would say Macbook, not pro. My biggest reason against the pro is you really should get Applecare. If you can't afford it, and still can't later..then there's 1 big negative. The Pro is not enough better than the Macbook to justify going with out, especially for audio work. The only thing you will miss is Firewire 800 which in the future may be a desire. But since money is tight now, I wouldn't believe you could afford all the gear that would saturate above an F400 anyways. For the difference in screen realestate, you can buy a cheap lcd or crt 19" - 20" and retain portability for on the go. Also with a new mac you can pick up Final Cut express HD on rebate $99, which comes with Sound works.. it seems better than Garageband, but not much better than say Peak( with multi-track editing ). I'm not aware if either are great for midi because I don't have a controller yet. Don't waste money on Final Cut unless you have an extra 100 bones. Fortunately you can still run XP under bootcamp.. this will save your initial software investment hopefully.

 

The 160 GB Perpendicular Drive is not significantly slower than a 7200 drive. Not to mention more space, less power consumption, less noise, less heat.

 

mac book is too small, i even find macbook pro not big enough maybe because of the wide screen... apple should offer a laptop with 15 - 19 inches with normal ratio 4:3

 

for audio you want:
-a high resolution screen.

-a Firewire 800 port if you are going to be doing any serious multitrack audio recording/playback. A separate external drive is best for laptop audio production and Firewire 800 transfers data the fastest. More data transferred = more tracks you can playback/reocord. This type of setup is not necessary for Reason and audio production that is mostly MIDI/soft synth based, unless you decide to print your sequences to audio tracks.

-a faster processor means more of everything (tracks, plug-ins, soft synths).

Sorry to hear about your bad PC experiences, my HP NC8430 runs 32 track Protools LE sessions (with an external HDD), Live, Reason and other programs without a glitch.

 

You will need to get the MBP. The MB really shouldn't be an option, depending on how big of a musician you are. You will also want FW800 for external music/HDD devices.

The MBP's Express slot will also end up being a big advantage as you should be able to find some good audio hardware to plug into that in a few years.
But you will really want a 15" or 17" screen (or get an external monitor) for some of your work.

Unfortunantly missing no 7200 rpm drive is a drag. Replacing it is very difficult and will void the warranty. hence the advantage of having a FW800 or e.SATA drive connected, they suffer from little to no latency.

You'll probably want to try out Logic and Abelton Live. Though, if you end up using Pro Tools, Logic may not be as usefull.

 

I think you are all right. The MBP is the only real option for all the above reasons. I couldn't agree more, except the OP is on a tight budget. I would absolutely say go MBP if you had the money. I don't think a Macbook will be crippled though. You can attach an external monitor at home and retain portability. The processor at any speed is more than ample for multi track processing besides that you're doing mostly MIDI right? A fast drive seems more logical if you're pushing uncompressed audio around, but midi? I dunno, am i wrong? Todays computers are fast enough to do plenty, even with a 5400 rpm drive. Anyhow if you spend all your money on an MBP you'll be left with nothing for software, and bootcamp is 30 bucks after leopard is out. You won't be able to buy the drive that works with firewire 800, or nice external midi control interfaces. With a macbook you can have it all, minus the drive. The bonus is you can user upgrade the drive in the macbook to anything you like. If faster disks are a real concern..get an Imac 20" instead

 

Hey guys, sorry it's taken me a bit to come back and post ... I've been visiting about 30 other forums trying to do more research.

I've actually come up with a bit more money, and this is what I'm looking at right now :

Macbook Pro

# 2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
# 2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
# 120GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
# SuperDrive 6x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
# MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
# Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
# Accessory Kit

Subtotal = $ 2,299.00

or ......

Macbook Pro

# 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
# 2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
# 120GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
# SuperDrive 6x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
# MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
# Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
# Accessory Kit
# AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro/PowerBook (w/or w/o Display) - Auto-enroll

Subtotal = $ 2,196.00

I read somewhere that you can opt to pay for the AppleCare later, as long as it's within a year of your purchase, is this true?

I'm also somewhere in the middle about the screens as well. Should I upgrade to glossy, or leave them matte? Glossy makes things look much sweeter, but will have lots of glare when I am playing on stage (from the lights and stuff onstage) ... that's what I think is the biggest selling point of the matte screen.

I could list the hundreds of reasons why I want to move to a Mac ... mainly, I'm just looking to cut Windows XP out of my life and get something I know is actually going to work for my music. I'm tired of having to tweak stuff constantly and deal with wacky driver issues. For one, I am wanting new hardwear and just ... something new. Microsofts Vista is a complete crock of s**t and ... well there's just too many **** problems to list. Leopard will be coming out this spring, and with it bringing a (finally) 64-bit OS that's gonna run like a **** charm.

I thought about getting all this new hardwear and staying with Windows XP, but I'm just about done with Windows. I can't find anyone who's using a Intel Core 2 Duo (Windows) laptop that's having good results. I was thinking about getting the Compal HEL-90 [PowerPro L 8:15] fully loaded to the brim, from powernotebooks.com originally. I read about constant issues with Firewire interfaces (such as MOTU) on the new Windows laptops (due to the Intel 945OM Chipset), I know the Dell forums are still hot with that topic. So that just only drives me away from that. I've used Windows for years now ... but I'm looking into newer programs, and wanting something fresh ... and I know XP isn't going to be giving me anything fresh. Plus I am really looking forward to a more sleek and sexy GUI.

I know that there are people using the MOTU Ultralite and the MOTU Traveller on the Macbook Pros and are having great results. I would also think that there are benifits to having a unified architecture, and I would also think that my music programs I'm using now are going to be running a lot better (and faster) on a Intel-Mac.

I decided to go with the Macbook Pro because it has the Firewire 400 and 800 connections, not to mention the expresscard as well. I was thinking that I could run the MOTU Ultralite thru the Firewire 400, and get a Firewire 800 external hardrive (7,200) for all my recording needs. And then I'd have the option of getting one of those expresscard things that would allow me to have a future Firewire or eSata connection, just in case I needed it down the road.

I plan on using Reason 3.0 for the Macbook Pro, and Kontact 2. I have yet to find a suitable host program for the Mac. I was thinking about getting Cubase 4, but after reading thru the Cubase.net forums it seems that Steinberg doesn't really give a rats ass about Mac customers. The program seems to be a trainwreck on the Mac. So now I'm thinking about Logic. I hate Pro Tools, and have actually taken classes with it, but I need something that has way more options and has tons more of VST stuff. That's why I was originally thinking about Cubase 4, before I read those forums. Now I wonder about how good Logic is, and if it would be a suitable replacement and would work well for my needs. I also wonder if I can get Kontact 2 to work well with Logic, as I'm really interested in recording soft synths.

For me, I like to record a lot of soft synths and then record them straight into a DAW with no latency. But we also record with bass, guitars, rhoades, vibes, and drums ... so I'm definitely going to be looking into a Firewire 800 external hardrive (7,200). I was also wondering, if the programs are installed on my Mac HD will they run okay ... or should I think about installing them on the external HD? Or is it only necessary for me to be recording audio to the external HD?

It seems as the days pass, more and more companies are adding the Universal Binary support, and with Leopard only months away from debuting ... I think that I would be an idiot to go with a Windows laptop. I would think that there are people already working on optimizing their new programs on C2D Intel-Macs running Leopard ... and I would think that it would have to smoke the competition (Windows) away.

Thanks for reading this long post, I'm just really trying to go for the best deal and what is best for me. With a tour coming up this year for us, I don't want to look forward to headaches, just concentrating on writing and playing the music.

 

The upgrade to a 2.33 cpu isnt' worth it. It won't be noticable in the least.

Logic, Absynth and Ableton Live would suit you well.
I honestly think those 3 will make you laugh at Reason (it did for me) and Cubase.

BTW, since you want synth heavy stuff, what kind of music are you doing?

 

I can't thank any of you enough for replying, this whole shopping for a new laptop thing has become a nightmare to me, and has had me pretty stressed out ... I've even found it's hard for me to get to sleep at night because I'm always constantly thinking about this stuff.

It's good to see that the bump up the the 2.33 isn't much ... it is only a .17Ghz increase after all. Then maybe I could configure the 2.16Ghz one with a bigger HD, such as the 160 Gig one ... which I read has comparable speeds to the 7,200 RPM model. I really wish that the 15.4 inch Macbook Pro had the option for a 7,200 RPM drive. Why do they only have it available on the 17-inch ? UGH. That's why I'm now thinking that I may have to get 2 Firewire hard drives ... one for the samples/programs ... and then one for all the recorded audio. I'd run the MOTU out of the Firewire 400, samples/program hard drive out of the Firewire 800 ... and then I'd have to get one of those Expresscard to Firewire 800 things so I could hook up another drive for the recorded audio.

Is that overkill, or will I be okay hosting the samples/programs on the Macs harddrive?

If you'd like to peer into what kind of music I'm doing you can hear some songs on our MySpace page :

www.myspace.com/jatun

Warning tho, if you don't like electronica, shoegazer, dream-pop stuffs .. then you probably won't like.

I've heard great things about Absynth before. One thing that's nice is that I'm going to school at the moment, so I can get a student discount (which I figured into my Macs above) on this software.

I tend to like to hammer in (MPC style) my beats with my Korg padKONTROL, in Reason ... and I also use my Korg Kontrol 49 for all things keys. Reason 3.0 has been great to me so far, but I feel as it's the first step for me as I am yearning to try somethings that are bigger, and are going to help me out more. My good friends Syntaks, and Manual are still using their old Pentium 4 (2.8Ghz) laptops with Cubase SX3 and Kontact 2 ... and are getting great results still. I thought about taking the simular approach, but as I've said ... only Cubase 4 is running on the Intel-Mac, and even then it's running like complete garbage, VSTs not working, older VSTs not working at all, many plug-ins not working ....

So I really am wondering if Logic and Kontact 2 might be a great combo for me. I tried out Ableton 5 some time ago, and it seems to me that it's more of a DJ program, I could be wrong tho. I write all of our songs out from beginning to end, and they're played the same way everynight, so in that I was thinking that Ableton 5 wouldn't be a great choice. Plus you have to buy that expansion pack to have more synths stuff for Ableton right? I think that's why I've just stayed with Reason 3.0 so far.

 

The bump to 2.33Ghz is not worth it, and IMO neither is going from a 160gb 5400 drive to a 100 gb 7200 drive. I'm not even sure if the bump from 2 ghz to 2.16 is worth it, but that's a judgement call. But yeah, the second option is the better one. Also, about the glossy screen: if you have a vendor selling apples, check to see if the screens glossyness atracts a lot of glare. If it's a good one, the glare is not as annoying and you can ignore it.

On a sidenote, your music was awesome, and i'm so going to add you to my friends in myspace. I especially liked "The Temptation of Joy" and "Ghost and Grey".

 

Thanks fabarati, glad you enjoyed! Yeah I think that I should take a trip down to the Mac store here in Portland to see the screens myself. My friend just picked up a new Toshiba laptop and it has a glossy screen, he's saying that he'd have much rather had a matte screen instead. So I gotta see what they're all about ...

 

Glad to hear your budget has expanded. Tight music. Motu rocks. You can buy apple care within the year. Have you ever tried Reaktor or Max/MSP for synth generation? Apples Glossies are excellent and much less glare prone than many I've seen. You'll see when you get there. Just make sure you look at the display if you can, to ensure it's evenly lit with out leakage. Also, you can ask for a "refreshed" model which they'll definitley let you see first hand. Schedule a "talk mac" session for best results. I'm not sure if you can get the student discount on top of the 10% off refreshed models. If you can that would rock. Refreshed means..it was brought back within the first 14 days and returned to stock,but not refurbed. I got one and it's awesome, no damage or problems out of the norm. The only catch is you can't return it if you're dissatisfied. good luck

 

Thanks Jimmy! I haven't tried Reaktor or Max/MSP for synth stuff. I know that Johnny Greenwood (Radiohead) loooves that Max/MSP program. I actually would love to try it out one day, although I might have to take a class on it here in Portland. I've heard great things about Absynth, Reaktor, and Kontact 2 as far as soft synth stuff goes. I'm willing to try just about anything actually, just as long it works!

My friends say that Cubase SX 3 and Kontact 2 work amazing well with each other, and they get no latency at all, when recording. So I'm kinda hoping that I will be able to do the same with Kontact 2 and Logic ... since (from what I'm reading) Logic seems to be a very suitable replacement for Cubase. I really love recording stuff with my old analog synths, but I'm deathly afraid of touring with them ... that's why I like to use soft synths a lot, plus you can do a lot of stuff with a soft synth, especially when using all sorts of cool chained effects.

I'll definitely check out the "refreshed" models, and see what they have. Some part of me thinks that it's gonna be best to go with a new model, but this "refreshed" thing sounds interesting. Can you get AppleCare with those ?

Also, can you guys suggest a blazing fast Firewire 800 external (7,200rpm) harddive? As long as it has at least 100gigs worth of space, that's plenty. And it's even better if it's affordable and doesn't cost and arm and a leg. It will definitely need to be fast since I plan on hosting samples on it, and recording audio to it.

Once again guys, thanks a lot for commenting! I've posted this (my story) in other big musician/gear forums and I've had little to no help. It seems pretty common with most forums, new guy comes on and asks for help ... and no one answers.

 

if you want a small firewire-drive and 7200 rpm, 100 gb is the max, but if size isn't as much of an issue, you can get a 3,5 inch external hardrive with sizes up to 1 TB (but **** those drives are expensive). And of course it's 7200 rpm. Or you can get a 10000 Rpm drive and a hardrive casing, but i'm not sure if firewire 800 is speedy enough to use that. And last but not least, if you need Serious speed you can get a eSATA drive and eSATA expresscard, but that's the most expensive route, and you might not need that much speed.



Ps. The overusage of the word speed was intentional, because if you read it in french, it sound funny (say it with me: spid)

 

yeah size isn't an issue, just as long as it has at least 100 gigs of space.

 

Refreshed models can be purchased with apple care, and any rebate offers available for new computers like Final cut for $99 at 200 instant rebate, and an HP printer scanner, free after rebate. I'm going to do a review really soon of all this. Also, IF you can't get the student discount with Refreshed product, check out the ADC program http://developer.apple.com/membership/hardware.html

I saw an external hard drive at the Apple store tonight which offered firewire 800, but they had non in stock.. i believe it was a 100gig 7200 3.5, for 189 , but i like this more http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817146603

When I was using MOTU hardware, back in G4 days, I used Digital Performer which was more or less a clone of Logic, but it was written specifically for MOTU. I don't know if it still exists today.

Now for Max/MSP you should head right over to http://www.cycling74.com/ tonight and check it out. They have a free 30 day version. It used to be easy to erase and reload it.. I don't know how that is today again, but it's worth it either way. It's deeeeeep. I've seen friends I know DJ with it and it's amazing. Basically imagine everything in your computer connected as triggers and sources to one another in any way you can imagine. Max can interface your programs to one another.. it's nuts. You build the program which is a visual library of modules and create the behaviors and paramaters. Then you decide the midi channel it commands.. and set your reactor or kontakt or whatever module program to the same channel... and viola! Now you're a live DJ. But it's really friggin deep. You can litterally spend an entire year of intense study getting the program down. MSP is for audio samples which can also be midi controled. Jitter and Cyclops work with video and motion to trigger and and control. So jump on it! Start with the tutorials and don't get frustrated.

 

Thanks Jimmy! Max/MSP is nuts! But really cool. I hope to take a class on it someday.

2.33GHz vs 2.16GHz .... how big of a difference is there really? I'm really wondering because of I go with the 2.16 model I can save almost 3 hundred dollars for my firewire device. Seems that the only diff is .17Ghz of power, and 128 of Video card ram.

What say you guys? I'm ready to buy me a mac!

 

I wouldn't stress worrying about the video card or cpu, unless you're gonna try to game with it, or use 3-d apps in either OSX or Windows. The gpu isn't much faster, but the ram could make an impact on certain 3-d programs now and in the future. I would save your money for sound hardware/software IMO.

 

I would recommend going with the top model because you will have this for a while and you want to make the best investment possible. It comes down to your needs and if you can spend the extra money.

 

I just ordered the 2.16Ghz C2D model with 2GB Ram, and a 160GB Harddrive! Everything came to $2,047 with my student discount. I'm a very happy man! Now I have just enough money for my Alesis io 26 Firewire Interface.

Now begins that looooong wait. I'm really happy to have finally purchased my laptop, and I'm very anxious to get started with our new recordings. Next month I'll be buying the Apple Care and Digital Performer 5.

I'm so excited, I don't know if I'll be able to sleep! I wonder how long it will take for me to get used to the OS X, and no right click. Thanks for the recommendations guys!!!

Is there anything that I should look for on arrival? I hope that it arrives in great condition, I feel a little worried from some of the stories on here about their machine arriving screwed up.

 

You can right click...just set the touchpad to "double tap for secondary click". if you tap the touchpad with two fingers, a right clikc gets registered. One finger = left click (obviously!).
Works really well, better than a physical button imo.

 

oh that is awesome queshy, thanks!!! 2 more days until it arrives!!!!