Getting sick of OS X crashing

So I thought the freezing problems had been solved with 10.5.4.

Here I am looking at screenshots of videogames at the gamespot website. I click "next" and the entire system locks up. Nice.

I'm getting REALLY tired of this.

I'm on the edge of selling this thing or just wiping the drive and putting Windows XP on it because Windows NEVER did this when I had it installed on here.

 

Is the whole system freezing or just the browser?

 

System.

Doesn't happen in Windows installed via Boot Camp, which I'm on the edge of putting back on.

I'm either going to sell it out of frustration or put Windows on it. One of the two.

 

What browser are you using & have you tried using other browsers?

 

It happens in Safari and Firefox 2/3. It happens randomly other times too. I can never repeat it. One time it happened while emptying the trash. Another time it happened while clicking "Burn" in a Burn Folder. Another time it happened in the middle of a Skype call.

It doesn't happen in Windows though. And up until recently, I gave Windows and OS X equal time on the MacBook.

I don't get it.

 

I started having this problem beginning with 10.5.4. Shut down time machine. If the crashes stop it's a corrupted sparsebundle file. I know. How stoopid. Who in their right mind would design a backup solution that panics the kernel simply because the target volume is corrupted. Apple did. That's who. The good news is that if you shut down TM and your kernel panics cease, it's a simple matter of deleting the target sparsebundle file and starting TM over again. What causes this? Can you believe another blunder. Allowing a Mac to sleep can cause corruption in the backups if they are done over wifi. How did I trigger this? I turned on sleep after 3 hours just as I walked out the door for a 2 week vacation. Is TM intelligent enough to inhibit sleep while it's backing up? NO! Certainly a blunder I hope gets fixed soon. Please confirm if your crashes are TM related.

I'm elated that OS X runs on a Linux Kernel, unfortunately Apple takes some liberties with their software architecture and they do things that I don't agree with.

Spend some quality time on the phone with Apple. I made it to level 3 support before I got to the guy who identified the Time Machine / Time Capsule / Wifi sparsebundle corruption issue.

Another reason for Kernel panics is also a common culprit for Windows bluescreens: A hardware problem can be the cause of Kernel panics as well. I would expect a problem severe enough to panic OS X should also affect Windows in Boot Camp but you never know. When OS X is running right, it never panics and never reboots except for the occasional update or power failure. Instability can be frustrating but don't give up on OS X too quickly.

 

But what if I don't use Time Machine? I haven't had it activated at all. This just happens.

Everything was going so smoothly until today.

 

Could it be another issue regarding the graphic glitches?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=248908&highlight=nvchannel
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=270942&highlight=nvchannel

Have a look at your system.log and see if you can find anything similar of these..

 

Running the Apple Hardware Test right now. Clicked the "Perform extended testing" option.

Will report back as soon as its done, whenever it is.

 

There could be something up with your leopard install. Something might have been changed or something.

Maybe try repairing disk permissions. And if that doesn't work, try a fresh install of leopard.
Also try not to install anything weird after the install. Maybe only firefox, and a couple other "big name" programs. If its still acting up after reinstalling, then you have a hardware issue.

 

if you go into an Apple store or call for help, they will most likely tell you to try to do an archive install or complete reformat and OS reinstall, that is your best option. if you have done that and are continuing to have problems, there is most likely a problem with the hardware, things running apparently smoothly in windows has nothing to do with how it performs in OS X.

 

Well, the hardware test is still running. Progress bar is about 2/3 done now. Neat little app, I have to admit that.

Though I don't see how it could be a hardware issue. It is literally impossible for there to be faulty hardware that only affects OS X but not Windows. Faulty hardware would equally affect both OSes.

And I've reinstalled OS X God knows how many times. I've lost count. Its not like I install a bunch of no-name apps. Just basic iLife '08, Firefox, etc. I honestly don't get much use out of OS X.

 

yeah like I said, if it is an issue that is popping up enough to interfere with what you are diong, it can most likely replicated or described over the phone, and if it can't be fixed within software, it is most likely a hardware problem, and it could definitely be that, even if everything seems to be working properly under Windows, drivers for all of that hardware is entirely different on each OS, so not hardware per say, but what connects that hardware to the OS.

definitely just want to let you know it is not something I can say I am experiencing, and I don't think many others are as well, so don't be afraid to give Apple a call and make them get the issue resolved.

 

I sold mine out of frustration, and now have a much nicer, more pleasant computing experience, and didn't lose any money thanks to the premium people pay for Apple.

Just for the record, it doesn't run on a Linux kernel. If it did, Apple would have to release the source code, because of a nice little license called the GPL. OS X is a modified UNIX kernel, similar-ish to ones used in the BSD systems, which uses a BSD license, meaning code can be used without contributing back to the community.

 

Well if its still crashing after reinstalling osx, then theres obviously a hardware error somewhere. Are you using non-apple ram? Might wanna put the stock ram in, and run the computer for a while and see if it still crashes. If it still does, call apple and get a new computer. That simple.

And are you using any extra hardware?

 

Like I said, I can't ever replicate the issue. One time the system locked up while emptying the Trash. It has never done it again since. Another time it locked up when I clicked "Burn" in a "Burn Folder" and I have never been able to repeat that. One time it locked up during a Skype video chat and I have never been able to repeat that either. Other times it has been completely random and I have never been able to repeat it. Never.

But like I said, Windows has been completely rock solid on the same hardware. Completely.

Unfortunately, I would lose money. The highest offer I've gotten is $900. I paid $1406.

I am tempted to sell it though. I really am.

It happens both with and without the Apple stock RAM.

It happens in both Tiger and Leopard.

It does NOT happen in either Windows XP or Vista installed via Boot Camp.

Heres a picture (bad, from the iPhone) of my Apple Hardware Test results. "No trouble found" Took 1 hour and 47 minutes to complete.

 

Oops. I meant Unix kernel. I've gotten in the habit of using Linux and Unix interchangeably. Something I'm sure Linus would be very pleased about.

 

What sort of machine would you want to switch to?

Hey, I'd love it if Apple were using a Linux kernel, it'd mean free OS X for everyone.

 

Well, I already have an HP I got around the same time Apple sent me this system (was a replacement for another MacBook where the SuperDrive died and they pretty much botched the repair in every way possible).

Its nothing spectacular, but it plays my games at reasonable settings, has HDMI output so I can play those same games on my HDTV, etc.

So I really don't have any need for the MacBook at all.

I have considered building a cheap yet decent desktop system. I miss having a desktop and the power you can get for cheap these days is amazing.

I've also considered selling it and using the money to upgrade my portable audio rig haha.

I'm not sure. I have to say the biggest reason I haven't sold it yet is that I know this will be the only Mac I ever own, so if I sell it I will be rid of Mac OS for.. well, probably forever. hah.

 

Take some pictures of when it crashes, and take it to the apple store.

Even if you cant replicate it, I'd think if you tell them you've been having constant kernal panics, they'd replace something. If it was the logicboard, or the harddrive. Not sure, but some hardware sounds like its not working properly.

 

Well, I ran the Apple Hardware Test thats on the included Mac OS X discs (not retail discs).

The expanded test returned what I thought it, no problems found with the hardware.

So its definitely in OS X.

 

Reinstall. If that doesn't work bring it into the apple store.

 

Apparantly the Apple Hardware Test couldn't find anything wrong with my machine when I'm experiencing similar lockups with the system (graphical lockups to be a bit more precise).

Do a search in the Console in your system.log for "nvchannel" (after experiencing a system freeze) and see if it returns anything.

 

That Mac hardware checker is not unlike the old Checkit software back in the DOS days of PC's. It comes free with .mac and also comes free with AppleCare. To me it seems that it only finds glaring problems that if they were present you probably could not boot in the first place.

A better option to consider is Onyx. Going through things like deleting plists and repairing permissions can solve many OS X issues.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, unfortunately, Apple doesn't strictly follow the *nix rules and keep unstable software out of kernel space. An OS X system with a valid and checked filesystem, valid permissions, valid plists, and valid network drives mounted should be rock solid. If some of these items are not valid, it can cause instability. I always always-always-always send my kernel panics and quit unexpectedly reports to Apple. I would like to think these reports actually make it to engineering for incorporation in Software Update. Onyx can find and fix a lot of issues that contribute to instability or can cause things to simply stop working.

I'm never shy about calling Apple when I have a problem and I don't accept knee-jerk solutions like "format your system, delete all your backups and start over". My data is boss and anybody that doesn't start with a premise that preserves my data gets laughed out of the room.

 

This is most likely an undetected hardware issue or it could, however unlikely, be a software conflict of some sort. In either case I would do a complete OS reinstall with a format. Test then reintroduce software you currently have one at a time and see if the issue can be reproduced.

I've never had an issue like this but if the above can't solve it then it's most likely a hardware problem.

Good luck.

 

The tester may not work in some cases.

You can't just keep saying that its OSX thats having problems, if everytime you reinstall its still happening.

It's not hard to call apple, or bring it to the store. You're obviously having problems, so you should make apple do something about it.

 

Well, I run Onyx on a regular basis. Especially after major system updates.

But as I said, I cannot reproduce the freezing at all. If it freezes while doing one thing I could spend hours trying to make it freeze by doing that very same thing.

It just doesn't work. It freezes completely at random. It doesn't matter what I'm doing, its just random.

Windows, on the other hand, doesn't freeze or lock up at all on the same system. No instability or anything. Its just in OS X.

I don't have major amounts of software installed. The iLife suite, Firefox, VLC, Perian.. let me start up my Mac to see real quick. I haven't turned it on since the hardware test finished this morning. Google Earth (which I never use), obviously I have the pack-in apps, like Mail and DVD player. MSN, Yahoo, Skype, Onyx, VMWare Fusion. Thats it. Fusion hardly gets used. The random freezing happened both before I had Fusion installed and on my previous Mac too. It randomly froze the same way this one does.

Since this Mac does it and my previous Mac did it (with Tiger) it can only boil down to an OS X issue. I used to have more software installed when I used my Mac as my only system. But now that I've essentially switched back to Windows and only use OS X for browsing, chatting, emailing, and syncing my iPod/iPhone, I don't see what could be causing it as far as 3rd party software. When I had Windows XP and Vista on it, it ran flawlessly. 100% stable.

Maybe later tonight when I get back in I'll throw Windows XP on it in Boot Camp again and see how it acts.

 

I don't mean any disrespect but how many times are you going to remind the forum that your problems don't happen in Windows? We got the message, trust me.
Now when you say you reinstalled OS X did you actually do a full erase and install or an Archive and Install? It's best to do a full erase as an Archive and Install keeps all your programs and settings and you could have some corrupt files on there that don't disappear from A&I.

 

i am really starting to question if you are at all interested in actually solving the problem? you seem way more interested in just letting everyone know that YOU think this is an OS X issue because of the 2 different machines that you have owned.

I have NEVER had OS X freeze on me randomly, have I crashed it? absolutely, I have crashed the bloody hell out of it, but it has never really been unexpected, and related to the software I was running or what I was doing, and I can count on ONE hand the amount of times I have seen an Apple machine running Leopard completely freeze and lock up.

if you honestly think it is an OS X problem, there is nothing we can help you with, so please stop posting here and get on the horn to Apple, but since you have no knowledge as to what may be causing the problem, and the problem is entirely unrepeatable, I highly doubt it is a bug, like I have said so many times, it is likely a hardware issue, and has nothing to do with Windows and whether or not it does the same thing under windows.

what is this thread really about? do you think there is something we can help you with? if yes, please let us know, I am more than willing. It is like someone walking into an Apple store and telling them they think there is a bug in OS X, what are they going to do about it at a retail store?

 

like hldan posted, an Archive install maintains nearly all Application preferences and support files, and since applications are usually what is causing the problem, it is definitely whise to do a Erase and install and make sure to fully back up what you need.

 

no, no, and no. there are so many variables here, and that hardware test cannot cover every last detail of the system, not even close.

the best solution, as mentioned is going to be a full Erase and Install, and if you absolutely want to figure out what is causing this, you need to use the system as is from the erase install, and see if you get the "random freeze ups", if not, you can most likely determine it is an application, preference, altered or corrupt file, etc. etc. If yes, then as we have said there is likely something wrong with your hardware, or your head ^_^

this is not a "known issue" of OS X, the common demoninator between this issue occuring on multiple machines is the user, and how the user uses the machine, if the problem occurs with multiple machines, multiple users, then it can definitely be noted as an OS X problem.

 

Whenever I reinstall OS X, I backup all of my data to either my iPod or DVD-Rs. I always do at least a 0 out option to erase the drive and fresh install. Then I manually reinstall my software piece by piece (after updates of course) and then bring my data back over.

But that is literally impossible. If there is faulty hardware of any kind, it would affect Windows in SOME WAY. There would be SOMETHING going on. A faulty motherboard would cause bluescreens. Bad RAM would cause bluescreens, shut downs, or corrupt data.

But absolutely nothing happens in Windows.

There is literally no way for it to be faulty hardware when absolutely nothing happens in Windows. Again, it is 100% impossible for faulty hardware to NOT affect Windows as well as OS X.

Well, I've done everything I can. I've clean installed Leopard (and Tiger) God knows how many times. Each time at least zeroing the HDD. I've used different software configurations to see if it still happens.

I ran the Apple Hardware Test and it showed nothing.

I went through the system.log and it showed nothing other than the usual activity from turning on and shutting down the system.

Whats funny is that I was typing a post for another thread here at this forum at the time of the crash. I opened up text edit about an hour ago and the post I was typing popped back up! Even though I didn't actively save what I was typing, it popped up as if the crash never occured.

I would like help. But what can you do when everything has already been done and it only happens in the shipping OS and not a 3rd party OS?

As I have said many times here, I have reinstalled OS X so many times that I have lost count. Every time I have gone into Disk Utility on the disc and ran the "0 drive" option. Then did an install.

The problem has existed on two different MacBooks with two different versions of OS X. I have not used the same software suite on both, seeing as how I when I had the first MacBook it was my primary system. The second MacBook came around the time I basically had switched back to Windows because of OS X's problems and being without my MacBook for a month thanks to Apple/Flextronics botching the repair of the other unit.

But anyway, I have Vista up and running on it now. With the latest Boot Camp update as well as the latest drivers through Windows Update and the latest GMA drivers from Intel. SP1 is installed. I haven't done much on it yet except type this post, browse the web, and notice that DVDs look 10x better in PowerDVD running in software than DVD Player in Leopard, but not as good as on my HP.

Vista is running just as good as it does on my HP. If this proves to be stable I may just wipe the OS X partition and keep Vista on it.

 

I guess I don't know what to tell you then, other than, I can say that I have never experienced the same issues, and again I would recommend giving Apple a call explaining your exact situation, everything you have listed on the last post, and as long as the machine is within warranty, I would be suprised if they wouldn't do something about it. If they do, and you still believe youa re having the same issue with another brand new machine, I really don't know what to tell you other than I wish you better luck in the future.

I just don't want you think it is impossible to have a completely and very very stable experience using OS X, because that is definitely not the case.

good luck getting the problem solved!

 

So I've been running Vista for the last what? Almost week now. Been flawless this entire time.

No issues whatsoever.

So far so good. It definitely seems that all of my problems are rooted in OS X and not the hardware.

 

welcome back to the darkside i mean windows SauronMOS, make sure to leave notice when you decide to root for mac again

 

Haha

I came back to the dark side a LONG time ago.

I really don't know why I didn't sell this Mac way back then, when it came off the FedEx truck. After all the trouble I had with Apple/Flextronics botching the repair of my first MacBook and all of the times OS X crashed on that one, I should have just left this one sealed in the box unopened, waited for the proof of ownership letter to arrive a couple of days later, and then put it up on craigslist or ebay.

The only reason i don't do it now is because I'd lose too much money.

So its either keep the system and be unhappy. Or sell the system, lose a few hundred, and be even more unhappy because of the costly lesson I learned.

Not a day goes by that I don't kick myself for paying $1406 for a system without dedicated graphics. I refuse to spend $2000 or more on a MacBook Pro with a GPU That can't even be considered mid-range now.

I remember way back in 2003, eMachines had those notebooks with Athlon 64s running at 2GHz, the capability to hold 2GB of RAM, 60+GB HDDs, Radeon 9700s! Why, 5 years later, can Apple sell a system for over $1,000 with integrated graphics and get away with it? I just don't understand that.

 

If it works with Vista, there is no absolute requirement to get rid of it. Perhaps a future windows update could make it stop working. OTOH, if you want to put this all behind you, perhaps you should get rid of the machine so it's not in your face every day reminding you of the problems you've had.

I hate so see somebody go back to the regime I only recently escaped from, so I should mention...

You mention that there can be no faulty hardware if it works under Windows but not Leopard. There is a possibility you are mistaken. It is a teeny weeny sliver of a slight possibility but it is a possibility nonetheless.

Back in the old days I had close to a dozen old windows boxes lying around. I could load windows on some of them and it would crash, but if I put Linux on the same machine it could run without an issue. Back then, I supposed that Windows was exploiting every last little bit out of the chipset so it could limp along as fast as possible. At the time, Linux was faster without specific motherboard chipset dependent drivers so it was unaffected by whatever little glitch was knocking windows off its feet.

Today, in your case, perhaps the shoe is on the other foot. The BootCamp drivers for Vista don't take advantage of every little tweak in your machine but Leopard does. For this reason, Leopard stumbles across some hardware issue every time but Vista never sees it.

Have you considered asking Apple for a replacement machine? Let them know you are so frustrated you wish you had sent it back on day one and perhaps this will get their attention. Of course, if you are out of warranty and out of Applecare, there might not be any recourse for you for free at least but it's worth mentioning. While Apple tolerates running Windows on a Mac, this certainly is not a part of their long term strategy. Having a customer stuck with a Mac that can only run windows is not a desirable situation for you or for Apple.

 

I really not understand why you haven't gone to the apple store or called Apple yet.

NO ONE experiences what you are having your either you screwed your machine somehow or something else is wrong. Just call Apple, that isn't so hard right?


Do that and tell us what happens, instead of telling us Vista works flawlessly in every post you make. Its really starting to make me think that you are just trolling.

 

+ 1

But just from personal experience, I've had leopard crash on me often in the past. If it was simple things, or complicated ones. The most annoying reason was that I would unplug a keyboard (Apple keyboard at that) and it would crash. Now that it's gotten to the point where its been updated a bit, I haven't had any of the weird crashes I had when leopard first came out. But the important thing to do is submit the crash reports to apple.

Also like r0k said, that IS probably the case. There is no reason why OSX would just crash for no reason, and windows not. It would mean that everyones version of OSX would be crashing all the time. It has to be a hardware issue, because thats the only thing thats different from your pc to another. Honestly, call apple, get them to give you a new computer or something.