Firewire Port?

I'm reading this has been removed in the new model. What does this exactly do? Sorry for not being the tech guru, but i just do not know what it's used for.

I have a older Macbook and use it mainly for browsing and schoolwork.

Can anyone list the pro's/cons of the new models compared to the ones we have now?

Thanks

 

Firewire is a port similar to USB. It is used to connect external harddisks for example. Most external harddisks that have firewire also have USB so I guess people have to switch.
Firewire is also used to connect camcorders to computers. If you have not heard of firewire I dont think you will miss it.

 

No firewire is a big deal for me. Too bad.

 

Firewire 400 is faster than USB2.0 and can supply a lot more power over the cable. This is particularly useful for portable hard drives since they can be reliably bus-powered. Firewire 400 is also supposed to have lower CPU usage than USB since it has integrated hardware controllers. Although CPUs are fast enough it's not that big a deal.

Firewire also allows direct networking options, including the ability to mount another computer's hard drive and modify it.

 

I would imagine quite a few people buying the MacBook just don't use firewire unfortunately.

this original post is a good representation of probably 85% of buyers out there.

maybe it will be like FW800 on the 15" MBP, soon to re-emerge.

 

Yup, no firewire on the "new" MB is a deal breaker for me too!

 

why is it a deal breaker for you guys? I can understand it, just interested.

but as I said, apple has surprised us with an extra port in a refresh with the MBP.

at this moment www.apple.com/feedback is your best bet. go for it.

 

Firewire was actually developed by Apple and the specification actually allows the use of Firewire over Ethernet. So presumably you can get an adapter to convert the Ethernet port to a Firewire port. Now the hardware side of things obviously needs to support this and I don't believe Apple has implemented this. Firewire over Ethernet seems to be ideal for the MB since it doesn't take up extra room and most people probably use WiFi anyways leaving the Ethernet port free.

I would suggest everyone ping Apple's feedback site on this asking them to implement Firewire on Ethernet on all their laptops. Afterall, Apple developed the spec so you'd think they would implement it.

While your at it, you might ask Apple to implement Firewire 3200 on the MBP too. Firewire 3200 is 4 times faster than Firewire 800 yet uses the same port and cables. Implementing it seems to be another no brainer.

I would think they would be more receptive to feedback now, right after a product redesign since they want people's first impressions.

 

Basically, Firewire (or by proper name IEEE1394) is similar to USB. Firewire 400 is faster than USB 2.0, but USB 2.0 caught on as the mainstream format, while Firewire is usually used for video cameras (where faster file transfer helps).

 

Sam (as usual) is spot on.
IEEE1394 is pretty much industry standard and a necessity for my side business, as my username should dictate.
-Capt

 

Firewire also sees wide use in the military, including I believe serving as a data link on fighter jets. Firewire isn't going away anytime soon regardless of whether Apple distances themselves from it. Why Apple doesn't support their own standard is beyond me. Especially after the effort they put in updating the spec to Firewire 3200 yet not using it.

I'm hoping they just had a glut of old Firewire 800 controllers which is why they kept using them. Hopefully a new 17" MBP will use the extra space to include 2 Firewire 3200 ports on the left side and an additional USB2.0 port on the right side beside the optical drive for things like a mouse. A later 15" MBP refresh can change the existing Firewire 800 to a Firewire 3200. And finally all Macs should support Firewire over Ethernet which is capable of Firewire 800 speeds, to return Firewire to the MacBook. That's the port feedback I sent Apple anyways.

 

left feedback as well, while it is probably not a deal breaker for many, and we may see it as a fully updated feature (3200?) in the future, it is something that they should closely closely consider. Most likely they already have, and probably have great reasoning, but it can't hurt to get an even larger group of people thinking about it.

 

Because that is the only way I can hook up my digital camcorder.

 

yeah I imagine those using Mini-Dv cameras may be a little frustrated with that. That was my main concern for people, and what I left them feedback on.

 

Well yea, consumers have used firewire for mini-dv, and other types of tape based consumer cameras. But now the trend is towards flash and harddrive cameras. Those usually use usb to transfer, since its just transferring files.

On the otherhand, in the professional world of TV, firewire is a standard that cameras, tape decks, and even the new flash cameras use. Kinda sucks that people couldnt get a 'baby mbp' for its portability and size, and since be able to capture their data to the laptop.

 

I could accept the loss of a firewire port, if they had included an ExpressCard slot for an add-in.

 

It is a little disappointing though, now that the smallest Mac notebook with a Firewire port is a 15.4-inch MBP. It may be a bit annoying for the filmmakers. But other than that smaller group, most consumers don't use Firewire anyway, so I understand that. Its still a loss though.

 

Well, the previous Macbook is still available and it has a Firewire 400 port.

It doesn't really bother me, as my only external hard drive is USB. My Dell has an IEEE1394 port and I've never once used it.

That being said, I agree with RogueMonk that if they were going to get rid of Firewire, they should have at least added an ExpressCard slot.

Of course, the MacBook Pro is the laptop meant for professionals, and it has both. I think Apple is trying to separate the two in this way since they now look exactly the same. It seems like people are less upset that there's a Macbook without these features than they are that there isn't a 13" MacBook Pro WITH these features. And honestly, isn't the Macbook hindered in photo and video usage anyway due to the low resolution? I would think that would be the big thing to deter people from purchasing the MacBook for professional use even if it did have a Firewire port.

 

Well, personally I think with the redesign, Apple is bumping the MacBook to become the 13.3-inch MacBook Pro. Not the best, but I think that's what Apple's been trying to do: push the new MacBooks as higher-end.

 

That does beg the question then what are they going to do for the low-end. I can't really see them using last generation models as the low-end forever since it's not very efficient to maintain 2 different production lines. And 4th notebook line would be too much and I don't think Apple will go into netbooks since that's way too low-end.

The price gap may just be the cost of the new production process. As the process is refined and startup equipment is paid off, costs will probably come down allowing Apple to move the MacBook's price point down again. And experience will probably allow them to do something more with the MBP design to differentiate it better.

 

Is there such a thing as a USB to Firewire adapter? That could do the trick for those few times we need firewire.

 

Not only is it a deal breaker for filmmakers, I think it's a deal breaker for some involved in sound/music production. I have a friend who makes music who wouldn't be able to use his external sound/"mixer" card. Although I think there's soundcards who uses USB as well, but I think his card is firewire-only.

 

There are some misconceptions about IEEE1394a (Firewire 400) here. Firewire 400 has a max transfer speed that is slower than USB 2.0. However, the sustained transfer speed is much higher. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FireWire#Comparison_to_USB

The result is that smaller files transfer faster with USB on individual read/writes, whereas Firewire 400 will transfer large files faster.

@Roguemonk: No, there are not converters because they are different protocols. There are express cards that provide Firewire though.

If you have to choose between the two, USB is a better choice due to its widespread use. I don't understand why another port couldn't be added for Firewire though, unless there was a serious issue with the body/board design to add another port.

Few people using the MBs will care about Firewire being lost. People on this forums are not within those few. Apple is marketing to the mainstream right now, and most of those people have no idea what Firewire is.

My main disappointment came with the lack of eSATA on the MBP, as the transfer rate is much higher than Firewire 800.

 

http://www.barefeats.com/hard70.html

I'm actually pretty sure that Firewire 400 would be faster than USB2.0 in all cases, whether random read/writes or large sustained read/writes. Firewire reaches it's potential speed a lot better than USB, probably because of dedicated hardware controllers instead of using CPU time and the efficiency of the protocol.

The major advantage of Firewire 400 over USB2.0 is not only speed but also power. USB2.0 is limited to 0.5A over 5V or 2.5W of power while Firewire can theoretically support up to 45W at 30V although Apple's implementation is generally 7W on notebooks and up to 18W on desktops. The benefit is for external hard drives which can be completely powered by a single Firewire cable making a truly portable hard drive instead of requiring a separate power supply or second USB port for power.

Looking at the disassembly photos of the MacBook and MacBook Pro there literally is no more room to put ports. Everything forward of the ports in both models is consumed by the hard drive and battery so there is no space to add anything else without shrinking the battery. In that context, Apple did make the right choice in sacrificing Firewire 400 in both models rather than reducing the number of USB ports to 1.

However, in the future they should implement Firewire over Ethernet, which can support up to Firewire 800 while using the existing Ethernet port so no additional room is required. The new controller probably costs more, but they can recoup the cost by selling the Ethernet to Firewire adapter. People who need it can buy the adapter, while those that don't aren't forced to lose other ports. The MacBook Pro can change it's Firewire 800 port to Firewire 3200 so it still has the feature advantage.

Well, I'm pretty sure that the only use for eSATA is for hard drives. And no single hard drive can sustain the 100MB/s (800Mb/s) needed to saturate a Firewire 800 connection. A RAID enclosure would be better over eSATA, but for most cases, there wouldn't be that big a difference between Firewire 800 and eSATA. As mentioned before, Firewire can also fully power external hard drives, even RAID enclosures, while eSATA needs a separate power source. Firewire also has uses for camcorders, scanners, networking, and a bunch of other applications. Given the lack of room to add anymore ports, in a choice between Firewire 800 and eSATA, Firewire 800's flexibility means that it's the better choice for most people.

I do hope that Apple replaces Firewire 800 with Firewire 3200 soon though. Firewire 3200 uses the same port as Firewire 800 and is backwards compatible and so can be a direct replacement without requiring more room. And Firewire 3200's 400MB/s speed would make it faster than even SATA II.

USB3.0 is also coming offering speeds of up to 600MB/s. I wouldn't be surprised if Firewire 3200 is still faster though given that Firewire 400 is sometimes twice faster than USB2.0 despite USB2.0 being theoretically 20% faster than Firewire 400. Firewire 3200 also has the advantage of using existing Firewire 800 connectors and cables while USB3.0 will require new cables. Firewire 3200 cables can also be longer than USB3.0.

 

I'll agree to the above. Can't mess with graphs.

Yes, eSATA is used for drives only. I wouldn't substitute it for a USB or Firewire option, but was hoping it would be there in addition to them.

Firewire 3200 would have worked too.

 

The sad fact is that for the average Joe (plumber?) the extra few seconds firewire saves on transferring a few photos or music aren't noticed...usb is good enough, and has a huge market dominance over firewire in general consumer products (camera's, printers, hard drives, web cam's etc etc).
Are there people that are going to miss the firewire... yes, but sorry guys your in the minority, and apple has decided that you are PRO's and thus not meant for the macbook.
a

 

Well, there are eSATA/USB combo ports that are already available in many notebooks now. Having that will be ideal and no sacrifice is needed.