Few Quick Q's

I'm a longtime pc user on the verge of buying a 13" MBP. It doesn't have everything I'm looking for (poor graphics card, no 1600x900 resolution) but from the laptops I've looked at the build quality is second to maybe only lenovo (while still managing to look good).

Just got a few quick questions:

Is it worth getting an ssd?

Will the graphics card be able to handle some gaming (Diablo 3 primarily)? I will probably be running bootcamp for when I do game.

Is the AppleCare protection plan worthwhile? Seems quite pricey.

Any must-have upgrades? Right now planning on getting the 2.3 Ghz with 4gb of ram and considering getting ssd.

Thanks for your help.

 

I've used windows machines all my life as well, but recently decided to get a macbook pro 13 over a windows laptop. here's my take...

Is it worth getting an ssd?
> not in my opinion. this is probably a better harddrive upgrade option for you. Performance is between a regular harddrive and SSD, but at a fraction of SSD's cost. I'll be getting this w/in the next week or two. There's a couple reviews I've read; most are very positive.

Will the graphics card be able to handle some gaming (Diablo 3 primarily)? I will probably be running bootcamp for when I do game.
> can't comment. i dont do games, but i remember seeing on youtube a guy was playing some popular games off the macbook pro.

Is the AppleCare protection plan worthwhile? Seems quite pricey.
> @ 250$, i dont think it's worth it. @ 185$ for education discount, i think it's worth it if you dont know anything about troubleshooting/upgrading computers. i've read you can still buy the apple care later, as long as it's w/in one year of the macbook's purchase.

Any must-have upgrades? Right now planning on getting the 2.3 Ghz with 4gb of ram and considering getting ssd.
> internally, besides upgrading the HD, not for me. i've order a skin from bestskinsever, and trying to figure out which mini displayport to DVI adapter to buy.

 

the HD3000 graphics in there is bare minimum for games. It may or may not run Diablo 3, as we do not know the final reqs for that game... it does run several games ok at lower resolutions and settings though, including other Blizzard games like Starcraft2.

 

That's not very encouraging Gaming isn't a huge deal for me but I want a laptop that can handle it if I do decide to once in a while.

Graphics card isn't upgradeable at all either is it?

 

i have the previous generation MBP 13" with 320m, dead space 1/2 run at max settings and sc2 at med/high settings(high is stuttering quite noticably - can't play online at this point).

it WILL be able to play games of this generation at the lower half of graphics quality.

not upgradable at all.

 

Yeah, but the 320m is probably 50% faster than the HD 3000. Not to mention, the only reason SC2 runs at all on the HD 3000 is because of the very VERY aggressive optimizations made on the OS X. Try running it in W7 and you'll be disappointed. Furthermore, SC2 is a more CPU heavy driven game than normal, which D3 definitely won't be.

Shoot me a PM and I can be a bit more of help "in real time".

 

I'm surprised there's still hate for the Intel graphics on the sandy bridge MacBooks. I have starcraft 2 and it played on high without so much of a hiccup. As far as if it will play diablo 3, no one knows. If diablo 3 is anything like 1 and 2, neither one had really high system requirements at their launch so I'm expecting my MacBook pro to be able to play it with no problems.

I used to be a Intel graphics troll too, I hated them and almost didn't get my MacBook for that exact reason, but after giving it a shot, it performs better than I expected.

That's just my two cents...

 

Not really trolling. SC2 is heavily optimized under OS X, that's a fact ( http://www.anandtech.com/show/4205/the-macbook-pro-review-13-and-15-inch-2011-brings-sandy-bridge/8). And you can't count on optimizations to carry over to D3. Furthermore, SC2 as an RTS is heavily CPU driven, hence why 2011 13 with 3000 is even comparable to the discrete 320ms of old.

D3 will not only be newer and taking advantage of newer architecture, but it's target audience will be quite a bit different. Can we at least agree, that if anything, D3 would more closely resemble the likes of WoW than it would SC2? That's to say, less units on screen at one time (CPU intensive), but lots of flashy pretty animations all over the place (GPU intensive).

I can't vouch for system specs of the original D2, but I'm not sure you can say they were low. For comparison's sake, if D3 were to come out in 2013, then that would be the equivalent of a ENTRY LEVEL 1998 LAPTOP running original D2 if Blizzard were to keep in line their "low reqs".

 

are you kidding me? the 320m is 50% faster across the board?

give me a break.

 

50%'s a bit of a stretch, but 15-20-25% real world FPSes for most games, give or take. That's anywhere from a 5-8 FPS difference in a 30 FPS setting.

 

For some titles (not most especially under OS X), there are others that run faster on the HD 3000. The games that take advantage of Nvidia's architecture are going to run faster but, overall, the HD 3000 is on par with the 320M and might technically be ahead. Whether or not the software uses the architecture to its advantage is another story.

 

I'll leave others to comment on Windows as I do not run it.
I have a 320m as well as a HD 3000 Mac... gaming in OSX, there is really no difference in performance thats noticeable in most situations, and in a few games I play the HD 3000 actually gets a higher frame rate.

discrete? the 320m is an upgraded version of the 9400 chipset... it is much faster than the 9400 (maybe twice as fast) but its built in the chipset... its definitely not a discrete GPU by any means.

I have no doubts, with first hand experience, that the HD 3000 will run D2 fine... All Intel Graphics before the HD3000 were miserable... so many people assume the HD3000 is too.

 

Is it worth getting an ssd?

If you can afford, go with the SSD. I have it in the MBA. The SSD saves only a few seconds in booting or running programs, but once I have tried the SSD I've realized how anoying is waiting for those few seconds in my other laptop (MBP with HD).

 

"Is the AppleCare protection plan worthwhile?" Yes, I believe it is. Not only can you get it legitimately outside of the Apple store, but the service goes above and beyond what any extended warranties can offer, which is really something for a laptop. Think of it as an investment if you plan to keep using the laptop for more than a year or two.

"Any must-have upgrades?" Upgrading your RAM to at least 8GB would be a great idea, not a very expensive upgrade either (Under $100 for two x4gb sticks). Next upgrade should be your HDD... doesn't necessarily have to be an SSD, but a hybrid or 7200 RPM is ideal. At the very least, you never know when you'll want to have extra storage space, and large capacity drives are cheap right now.

 

SSD

Very worth it. The speed boost, especially for rebooting, is significant. Since you said you'd use boot camp, the SSD boost is even more useful since it makes switching between OS's that much smoother.

Also, on a laptop where portability is key, you want to minimize moving parts. Having an SSD that isn't vulnerable to sudden drops or magnets can be very important.

D3
Wouldn't we all like to know the min reqs?

AppleCare
Wait on this for now. You get the first year free, and you can buy AppleCare any time before that first year runs out. If you do keep your laptop for longer than a year and have had no particular reason to dislike Apple's services by then, definitely buy this before your first year runs out.

Misc
Why not wait a month? The MBA refresh is coming soon, and the GPU in it might very well be better than what's in the MBP (sad). Plus, OSX Lion will be released next month. You'd probably be able to get a refund on the purchase price of Lion when you buy it next month if you buy a laptop now, but why bother with that extra step and having to reinstall your OS?

 

Responses in quote.

 

Heh, pretty sure even your iPhone can run D2 at 60 fps or something.

This is the way I feel about SSD:

Would you notice it? Hell yeah. Not the boot times, or how quickly you open a program. Those are moot points imo. If you're a user and not benchmarking anything, you won't be rebooting your notebook more than once or twice in a day. And there's no reason to constantly open/close Safari/Chrome/Photoshop/Eclipse/Netbeans. Where it really shines is latency. Normally if something in the background is doing a random write/read, with the traditional harddrive, you'll feel the entire system "hang" for a second or two. With the SSD, you won't get that. When you click, it responds. That gives it the illusion of speed.

Is it necessary? Ehh... Unlike the other upgrades, this one's more of a luxury. With a graphics card bump, you go from being "this is ing unplayable" to "oh, that's purrrty". Processor? "WHAT DO YOU MEAN THIS IS GONNA TAKE 4 HOURS??!?" to "oh, I'll make myself some food in the meantime then". Even with RAM, you go from "I want much bigger canvases" to "I want bigger canvases". With SSD, it's more... well, it just "feels" incapable.

That said, I like SSDs. But I'd get third party SSD with at most 128 GB capacities. There's far too much a premium on the larger ones for still not enough storage.

Upgrading from 5400 to 7200 is a total waste though; go big or go bust. There haven't been any long term conclusions from the hybrid drives yet, but those are a very appealing option as well. $90 for 500 GB (4 GB SSD is kinda sad, but whatever).

For the RAM upgrade, hold off on that as well. Buy the base 4 GB, then if you need more, get more. You get higher quality sticks from your choosing of vendor, at a lower cost.

 

what are you talking about?....that doesn't make any sense at all.

 

Lot of good advice, but a lot of conflicting advice as well.

 

Seriously, you guys hype these things up, making them believe a 13" macbook "pro" can do everything he wants...he'll just end up disappointed and regretting his purchase. As someone that has owned both a 13" and a 15", anyone with gaming anywhere in the spectrum of their interests won't be satisfied with the 13". It's just not an enjoyable experience.

 

Hey OP. I just looked into buying an MBP as well. Im a long time pc user like yourself although i have in the past owned a regular macbook (although only for 6 months).

After doing some research i decided that its not worth it (for me at least). I can give you some reasons why i decided what i did.

1. Even with student discount. lowest end MBP 13 inch comes out to $1200 after taxes.

2. MBP 13 inch resolution is 1280x800. Other laptops of that size offer 720p resolution.

3. Only intel HD graphics. Im a big gamer but i mostly game on my ps3. So it wouldnt matter too much if the laptop could do gaming or not, but obviously dedicated card is a plus.

4. Battery life is good but not as good as some other options. (7 hours claimed battery life).

5. 4.5 lbs in weight.

Some pros include: i5 processor, internal dvd drive, mac style and apple build quality, and also a backlit keyboard.

If it was 200 cheaper or so id probably consider it much more strongly.

I decided to buy the Asus U31SD-A1.
GenTech PC - Asus U31SD-A1 13.3 inch Sandy Bridge Notebook

 

1. There's two $100 gift cards not factored in.

2. Hope you realize 1280 x 720 is better than 720p, which is 1280 x 720!

Funny you should mention the U31SD; I'd consider waiting for the U36SD at this point. It's quicker and much slimmer, with USB 3.0 to boot. 520m is a minor upgrade over the previous 320m, not huge, but with the Sandy, should be enough for light gaming.

GenTech PC - Customize System

 

Total mind slip and amateur mistake. I meant to say the resolution is 1366x768.

What gift cards are you talking about?

*Although its funny you listed wrong resolutions too lol. The first one i think you meant 1280 by 800.

 

Now, don't quote me on this, but technically, you should be able to price match with Best Buy the $999 ( Micro Center - Apple MacBook Pro MC700LL/A Laptop Computer - Silver MC700LL/A, then get their $100 gift card, which comes out to just under a grand after tax.

 

wow. sad that direct from apple with student discount doesnt even beat brick and mortar store prices.

I dont see any gift card for best buy but microcenter does have a decent deal for 1100$ basically.

The only flip side is that with the asus that i have configured for 920$, i get 3 year warranty, + 1 year accidental.

But damn those mac styles look so nice lol. you just made this decision very difficult for me.

EDIT: i didnt know the battery was integrated... One other thing i was hoping for was right click but apple still hasnt done that. Other than that its a very impressive notebook for 1100....

I will still stick to ASUS but you almost had me lol.

 

I'm not going to go as far as to say Macs are "cost effective", that was never the goal of my post [nor of Apple's tbh]. Ultimately, MBPs are a professional line of notebooks. You've got to compare it to the Latitudes, Precisions, Vostros, Thinkpads, Tecras, etc; comparing them to consumer lines wouldn't make any sense. Or worse yet, gamer notebooks the squeeze out every bit of performance for $, sacrificing build quality, longevity, design, etc etc along the way. Still, I'm not blind to the Apple tax; Steve needs a new yacht and who am I to stop him?

EDIT: This demands a picture.



As for the other thing: it's as easy as asking.

Best Buy Will Beat Apple’s Disappointing Back to School Promo | Cult of Mac
Best Buy Offers $100 Gift Card to Match Apple's 'Back to School' Promo | Touch Reviews
Best Buy to match Apple's $100 Back to School promo | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog
Best Buy to Match Back to School Promo with $100 Store Gift Card - Mac Rumors

 

but it does have right-click.....

 

accidental damage warranty is nice, and a longer standard warranty... just hope it doesn't take 3 years to actually get it fixed Sometimes asus is fast, and sometimes... not so fast.

just the feel, and quality of build, and mainly the trackpad... drive me away from most PC brands, even the Asus which isn't quite as bad as some brands.

why would you want a dedicated button for right click? You've ben able to right click on Apple trackpads for many years, back before the Intel switch even. On the current ones, a two finger tap, or two finger click does right click, or you can set it up so clicking/tapping a corner will do a right click and just 'pretend' its a dedicated button in that area. I prefer two finger taps, but I've gotten very use to that over several years enough to actually prefer it over a physically button, since I don't have ot search and hope to hit a specific area, i can tap or click anywhere on the whole trackpad and get a right click.

 

Ugh, basically between U36 and MBP.

MBP:
Better screen, out now, great build quality, optical drive, worse resolution, great touchpad and keyboard

U36:
Not out yet, unknown build quality, no optical drive, better graphics card, better resolution

 

And? This is the design that many companies are moving to despite the constant complaints made about Apple implementing it with the unibody MBP designs. It allows for companies to make odd shaped larger batteries so that their products can last longer on a single charge.

Replacing the battery can be a pain but that won't matter if an extended warranty is purchased anyway (and that, when picked up through a third party, is only a little more than what a new non-integrated battery would cost for most other notebook models). The batteries are designed to last the lifetime of the unit anyway so it shouldn't be a big deal. I think you can completely drain the battery and fill it back up once everyday for 3 years before the battery starts losing its ability to hold a full charge.

 

Which part?

 

the part i quoted. why would the MBA have a better gpu than the MBP?

 

Is that so surprising? Some people already feel, perhaps mistakenly or otherwise, that the current 13" MBA houses a better GPU than the 13" MBP. This isn't to say that the MBA will necessarily have better gaming performance.

Since I at least do not know exactly what specs the 13" MBA will have, there's always a chance, however slim, that the 13" MBA might have a better or at least comparable GPU to the 13" MBP.

The point was that since a refresh is right around the corner, and in light of the other reasons listed in my post, it makes sense for the OP to hold off buying anything for a few weeks unless he absolutely needs to buy right away.

 

what refresh are you talking about? Which apple notebooks will be affected?

 

MBP is their performance line. 13 inch MBP went from 320m -> 3000. Part of the reason is because 3000 is far more powerful an IGP than its predecessor, and in addition, the SNB run a bit hotter than the old processors, especially the i7.

MBA is their mobile line. 320m -> ???

No chance. Apple might go ULV Sandy Bridge, which I hope they do. The old MBA run HOT!

 

you honestly need to backup remarks like those.

i don't think you realize what the 320m vs hd3000 situation is.

 

True gaming performance measures both the graphics and processor in tests. Currently the 13" MBP is still a better gaming machine than the 13" MBA and the differences between the 320M and HD3000 are very slim under OS X. Some titles perform better with the 320M while others actually perform better on the HD3000. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum with people bringing in all sorts of outside reviews and benchmarks, I don't think any further "proof" is required when making general statements.

Plus Apple may put a better GPU in the MBA. Nobody truly knows the specs of Apple products until they are officially announced. The MBA may or may not have weaker or more powerful GPU performance than the MBP. Right now I don't see that happening if Apple decides to rely solely on the HD3000 in the ULV Sandy Bridge processors as the IGP comes in at a much slower clock rate and accesses a smaller amount of RAM/cache than what is in the i5 and i7 MBPs. Then again, Apple could slap a better IGP in there or keep the 320m.

 

without redesigning the GPU architecture or redesigning the whole freaking chip for the forthcoming process node, the only way to increase GPU performance would be to increase clock speeds. something about the ULV nature of ULV chips tell me that it won't be faster that the full-voltage version.

they're not keeping the 320m if they're moving to sandy bridge.

 

I didnt read the whole thread but dont plan to do any modern gaming on mbp13 — it wont work good so save your nerves and avoid slide shows. It handle older games fine however.

Truth is macbooks are not designed with gaming in mind. Only one that does handle some gaming is in my sig and it starts at $2200.

 

Exactly. The gaming performance of the MBA is probably going to take a huge step backwards with the Sandy Bridge refresh.

 

Buying a MBA to game is quite a bit more retarded than buying a MBP to game, so...

 

Debating whether the MBA delivers superior gaming performance to the MBP is essentially debating which one is the least weak. In the end, they're both utterly unsuitable for the stated purpose.

 

Obviously, you buy a MBA for portability not for gaming. But the ability to play games is a nice bonus. I have the 11" MBA which is my personal computer when traveling. I could not carry anything much bigger than that in my bag along with my work laptop and other stuff. So it's fortunate that I can play games on it. Not the latest releases, but slightly older games like STALKER work fine. That capability will probably be lost when the new Sandy Bridge MBA models arrive.

 

have you actually used an hd3000 yet?

 

Not the ULV version that will be in the next Air. The HD3000 is clocked a lot slower in the ULV processors. So far, I've only seen two laptops with Sandy Bridge ULVs. One is the Samsung 900X, the other is the Thinkpad Edge E220s. Gaming benchmarks are hard to find, but the ones I have seen are pretty bad. For example, the WoW numbers from laptopmag.com:

(Autodetected settings)
MacBook Air 13: 58 fps
MacBook Air 11: 48 fps
Samsung 900X3A: 14 fps
Thinkpad Edge E220s: 24 fps

(Native res)
MacBook Air 13: 35 fps at 1440x900
MacBook Air 11: 31 fps at 1366x758
Samsung 900X3A: 7 fps at 1366x768
Thinkpad Edge E220s: 10 fps at 1366x768

Source here. You can also find a couple of gaming benchmarks for the Edge E220s in this review. They found CoH and Just Cause 2 were unplayable, but both of these games are playable on a MBA 11.

The new MacBook Air may do a little better than the Sammy and Thinkpad if it uses the slightly higher clocked i7 ULV model, but that probably won't be enough to make it playable with most games.

 

Gaming graphical performance may decrease (though Angry Birds will still be fine) but the battery life should increase as the HD 3000 in the SB ULV processors consumes far less power. Plus it is more than capable enough for the average consumer who just wants to consume media (in HD or SD), run office productivity programs, and surf the internet.