Do you take your Mac for granted?

I know at times we "all" yell and scream at our Macs when things seem to be getting all weird and something simple as a restart fixes it but we sometimes think even that is too much trouble. Sometimes we even complain about certain features Apple put in Leopard.
Well today I realized that I do sometimes take my awesome Mac OS X computer for granted.
I just downloaded a short film from the web and it was a zipped file so I unzipped it and it was a .EXE file. So I fired up VMware Fusion and started up XP and dragged the file over to Windows.
I got an install screen for some reason and then it said, "YOUR GAME IS INSTALLING", what game?, it was a movie clip.
Then when I declined the install another messaged popped up saying, "THANKS FOR INSTALLING OUR TOOLBAR". I couldn't do anything about that and then after all of this a message popped up in the bottom right corner saying, "You've just installed Spyware on your computer and your computer is no longer safe".

I didn't realize how much I love Mac OS X for not giving me such a horrible experience as in Windows. People say Windows has gotten better but nothing has changed.
Anyone else sometimes take their Mac for granted?

 

I actually think I do. I know that Leopard has given me some networking problems and I was pretty angry messing with it yesterday. Thinking about it now though, that is really the only issue I have had with Leopard. Couple that with basically issue free use of Tiger for nearly a year and I begin to think I overreacted.

I have been using Windows on my wife's laptop for a project the last couple days and I just keep getting frustrated.

 

Let me get this straight, you downloaded a zipped movie clip, extracted it to find out it was an EXE file, and then ran that EXE file, and you're blaming Windows for getting Spyware???

 

Hrm, I generally agree. There are a lot of little features that Apple doesn't even advertise for OSX that I love and take for granted (such as nonfocus scrolling, etc.). Every now and then I have to spend some extended time in Windows and find little stuff that bugs me just due to sheer inconvenience.

However, I think the whole not opening random .exe files thing is a good habit to get into regardless of OS. I agree with Odin on this point that actually running the .exe file itself is something that is a user error. Regardless of how secure your OS is, if you force it to run something, it will run it.

On the other hand, it's understandable in that in a similar scenario in OSX, you'd most likely have to go through several account/pw prompts to authorize the installation, assuming you've set your system up correctly (but then Vista does this too, so it's not much different). Furthermore, this probably would never have happened under OSX for a variety of reasons (e.g. no such application exists for OSX yet, etc.), so I can definitely see how someone who's always used an OS where such threats did not exist wouldn't have been on guard against this situation.

Whereas any long-time Windows user will know never to run random .exe files, someone who's not used to having to be careful with downloaded files (i.e. having never used an OS that was particularly at risk) might never have gotten into the habit. That habit may be a good thing to have regardless of how safe your OS is supposed to be.

My biggest concern going into OSX (and still today), is that I'd lose the careful habits I'd developed over the span of using Windows, or worse, that OSX would lull me into a deceptive sense of security that may or may not actually exist in the future.

As it is, I have no real security software or maintenance software on my OSX partition - partially because no such software with the functionality I'd want really exist, and partially because there's no such need for them yet. However, this of course means that should this change in the future, I'd be highly at risk.

 

Actually I'm not blaming anything, it was my experience. This stuff only happens in Windows as far as toolbars getting auto-installed and the spyware was hidden inside the file and got installed reducing security in the Windows experience.
Also I realize I didn't make myself completely clear on my posting, the .EXE file was a plain white file, when I dragged the .EXE file over to the Windows side an icon appeared showing a pic of the movie and the name of the movie.
At this point what is a person suppose to do? Either trust it and click it or don't trust it. I wouldn't exactly call this a user error.

This is not a Windows flame post, it was about how great my Mac experience is that I don't have to go through all of that crap so the next time my Mac acts a bit wonky I will remember what happened just recently.

 

odin243, I can understand hldan's problem. Even he/she choose decline, the program installed itself, and modified his/her machine.

I used my wife's PC yesterday night and the same thing happened. A website always pops up using IE, I have no other choice but uninstall IE completely, and use Firefox. The website pops up even when I did not use IE at all.

It does not mean that mac is better than windows, but there surely are a lot of things to be repaired in windows.

 

The problem wasn't that hldan chose decline, it was that hldan ran the EXE file in the first place. That's something you should simply never do. Ever. Real movie clips do not come in .EXE packages.

 

At this point you shouldn't trust it. It will still show the .exe extension regardless of what icon people set it to (unless you set your view options to not show extensions, which is usually a bad idea). As odin pointed out, movie clips do not come in .exe files. Consider if you were downloading a .mp4 file in OSX and it ended up being an .app package--you probably wouldn't open it then. Same type of situation. (assume that there wasn't a movie clip inside the .app package itself that you could access - since .exe files don't work that way).

Even if it wasn't showing the extension or the nature of the file was vague in some other way, consider that if it were truly a media file, OSX should be able to open it, provided you have the necessary codecs and programs (which you should). At this point, even if you weren't aware of the .exe nature of the file, you should be cautious - why would you need to move a movie file to Windows to get it to run?

Apologies in advance if all that sounded like preaching the obvious, but I figure there are plenty of people who never used Windows and aren't used to being on the guard.

As for the OS point though, I completely agree. This sort of situation would rarely happen in OSX - although I don't attribute that to the OS itself so much as the market.

 

Exactly. I don't get how stupidity on the user's part is a flaw in Windows. If the OP meant to imply Macs were more idiot-proof than Windows computers, that's one thing, but it takes a large amount of self-deception to blame your computer for your choosing to download and install executable files from the internet.

 

I think you are totally misunderstanding me, this was not a post against Windows and it's flaws but it is the fact that the I don't have to be so careful on every crack I steps near in the pavement when using my Mac.
This is not just about downloading files when using Windows you still can get self-installing toolbars just by visiting certain safe websites amongst other types of spyware as well.
I just realized how much I criticize my Mac for small things like the beachball that I hate and Stacks not being perfect when it's still a better and safer and less maintenance experience then when using Windows, I just learned to appreciate my Mac more.

I'm sorry if some of the Windows users are irritated at my post as it's really geared towards Mac users.

 

Yeah, I do find so many of the little things my Mac does helps make the computing experience so much more enjoyable, even if its only a little thing; at least its one little thing Windows doesn't do .

 

i for sure have taken my mac for granted before i came home for holiday break and used my new vista pc. i discovered a new hate for this operating system as something is always crashing and restarts right away, such as the new aim 6.5 and game performance is worse than xp. my computer is somehow always "thinking" at start up for a good 15 minutes. i wish i still had xp on it... i love my mac because it is simple and a joy to use

 

I mean with all due respect , if u run some unknown exe file, that u thought was a movie clip, and expect nothing to happen , remember always check what u download with av , and u know how they say the only thing that no av and firewall can save computer from- is u (user) , i use leopard full time,and i love my mac, but lets not be ignorant here xp is very solid os , i mean common people we mac users better than that,

 

We all take our machines for granted. What would you do if your hard drive failed? There's some information you probably haven't backed up and can't be replaced. You won't be able to check your favorite websites and chat with your friends. You'll essentially be in the dark until it's repaired.

So, in short, everyone takes their machines for granted. That's human nature as we've adapted to the necessity of their functions.

 

hu?

we all do it to a degree, but i back up all my stuff weekly

 

Still dude... it was a .exe .... you should have still know better. Videos are never .exe .... It is totally user error.

Also, I've never had a problem with Vista crashing or taking more than a few seconds to boot up... I really have nothing against the Vista OS, but I still prefer OS X because it's safer and prettier.

 

What exactly makes you think someone should know better? How many millions of people buy PC's every year that don't even know how to set up an email account or an anti-virus subscription? First off I was never complaining what Windows did to me, this was all about how much I appreciate my Mac and I take it for granted the things that I don't have to go through like Windows.
Millions of people that buy PC's wouldn't know a .exe file from a Word doc so don't say people should know better, this forum is just made of geeks (myself included) but the rest of the world doesn't think like you.

 

I actually agree hldan. These things need to be more full proof. A user should not be burdened with what OS they are running or knowing file extensions. Are you expected to know what software your microwave or TV run on? Of course not. Computers need to get to that point. I really think the blame lies with the software manufacturers, not users. It is their job to make things that are easy to use, secure, and bug free.

 

No. They SHOULD know better. Just because a lot of people don't know the difference doesn't mean they shouldn't. And I do get your point, but you said it wasn't user error. But it's ok. At least the generation I belong to knows what the hell a .exe file is... so there is hope that the future population will know the bare basic functions of a computer. Knowing the difference between MPEG4 and .exe isn't confined only to "geeks." And if someone can't set up an e-mail account I doubt they'd ever be in the position to even be able to download a file, lol.

 

I think there should be incentive for consumers to form good browsing habits - because malware and viruses will always be out there anyway. A user *should* learn some of the basics of the OS they're using.

Although a user isn't expected to know what firmware their microwave runs on - he is expected to understand that he's not supposed to use certain types of items with it, such as a chunk of heavy metal inside it, or a poodle, etc (although with the tort system in the US these days, it's more a haven for such idiocy than otherwise).

I think the end goal should be for a more informed consumer base and raise the overall standard of knowledge. As mentioned, there are some things that no amount of security will fix - even if this was in OSX, if someone did make an .app that would ruin your system, no number of password prompts or warnings or other security features will protect a system if you force the program to run manually.

 

I agree with you to an extent. But the SAME thing could happen on OS X. If you chose to run a .app file when you were expecting a movie file, which would obviously be downloaded from an untrustworthy source, it MIGHT just be a malicious program. In fact, wasn't there a malicious widget for OS X a while back? It's something OS developers can't avoid, unless of course they just don't let you download anything onto your hard drive. Ultimately it lies with the user knowing the source of the file is trustworthy, or having to make an guess about it, and sometimes people get fooled and that's definatley not the fault of the OS. If anything it's the fault of jerks who get off on damaging other peoples computers more than anything. But when you expect to get a certain file, but recieve a .app or .exe instead, you should have the common sense to know something isn't right and at least google it, or just don't run it. But common sense is something a lot of people lack.

 

Arquis, while I agree a similar thing could happen OS X, there are more safeguards to stop it. First, Safari and Firefox both tell you that you are about to open a .dmg and what that means. Second before anything is installed, you are required to enter an admin's password. I know Vista requires this as well, though it sounds like the OP was not asked (maybe he was on XP). There are plenty of steps to tell even the most novice user that they are installing a program before it is installed. I was not singling out Windows. I meant computers as a whole need to be more user friendly.

I agree that users should learn good habits when browsing. At the same time I wish that users were not put into that position because a few companies made some very bad security decisions. But yes, users should also realize that things like downloading cursors will likely give them more than they asked for.

 

Well that's really what I mean. OS X and Windows both warn you that you are about to open an executable file. But if the user goes ahead with it anyway, there's nothing OS devs can do short of removing the ability to download programs.

 

I actually disagree, almost entirely with this type of sentiment. It promotes a user base of idiots, by targeting technology at idiots. I don't recommend anyone use any piece of technology without at least a basic understanding of how it works and it's fundamental principles.

 

This might be a more complicated issue than it seems...

First off, let me say that hldan, you absolutely did make a mistake by downloading an exe file from the internet and running it. It was absolutely a user error, and while I know that they took advantage of you by making you feel dead ended about the whole movie clip thing, you should know to never run an exe without knowing exactly what it is in advance.

Well, they do expect you to know, but should you really know? How could you know without taking a class or experiencing it at least once? I don't know. Still, we live here on earth and you have to accept that. So don't run .exe files unless you know exactly what it is beforehand. A good rule of thumb here is that you should have the idea to start looking for this file before you see it in front of you. Even then you aren't entirely safe, but when you download a file and you say to yourself, "huh, thats a little strange" you can pretty much rest assured that it is in fact a little bit strange.

Some people have said this before in other words, but:

The best locks in the world are useless if you leave the door open.

While I agree that if everything in computing could be expected to just work, the world would be a much better place, I have to say that I really agree with odin, not on the "promoting a user base of idiots / targeting tech at idiots" principle, but that the nature of computers requires letting the door open sometimes. The only alternative to this is never letting the door open, in which case you would be highly restricted with the use of your machine.

So, the whole issue here is really a balance of security and stability vs. usability and access.

I think we need a good amount more of both, to be totally honest.

 

actually, when you download a file from internet, some virus can be hidden in the pictures, so when you click on the picture, BAM! You get infected.
All I am saying is that computer should be user friendly and safe. I just love my Mac and my computer will all be changed to Mac in the near future, I even do not want my thinkpad T40 any more.

 

people say Windows has gotten better because of the new release of Vista. It is much more secure than XP, so do not compare the safety of XP an older operating system, to OS X a new gen operating system, compare it to Vista. In Vista i am pretty sure that problem would have been taken care of as effectively as you described. Yes I know Vista is crappy as of now, but after a service pack release it should be much better.

 

I understand what you guys are saying. I guess what I am looking for is for things to be written in plain English. In OS X for instance, if I double-click a disk image (.dmg), it pops ups a warning saying that this is program that has been downloaded from the internet and is now going to install. If OS X crashes it uses plain English to tell me that the system has experienced an error and cannot continue, please shut down. I have not used Vista enough to know what it does in situations like that, but I do know XP would usually give you a cryptic message in the event of a crash, and never told you you were installing a program.

That is the type of user-friendliness we need. Plain English. Don't give me some cryptic error code that probably is incorrect anyway. Even though I know what installer extensions are, I still like to be reminded I am installing a program. If Vista, does these things, then perfect! We are making progress!

 

Hrm, well the OSX kernal panic logs are pretty cryptic too though...

 

Sure the actual log is, but the kernel panic screen is rather straightforward.



The vast majority users are far better served with this than an error code. And if they really want to know more they can look in the logs.

 

I really don't see how that screen is significantly easier to understand then this:

 

Actually I think the BSOD is very easy to understand. You just take the error, google it, and you have an idea of what is wrong.

Talking about the .exe file, that was completely a user error. .exe means executable file, I believe that when you try to open them in windows, it tells you that you should watch out because it could harm your computer.

Why would a movie be in a .exe format, it would kind of like having a movie in a .dmg format, when it should be in .avi or something along those lines.

I've been using my PC without virus protection for 2 years now and I haven't run into a single virus.

 

If you've been running it without virus protection how can you possibly know you dont have a single virus, or spyware? Some stuff runs in the background without you even knowing it's there.

 

i have to agree with arq on this one.

i love it when people say this. tons of people buy into this themselves. I don't use antivirus either, but all i do in windows is download drivers and play games. still- i wouldn't consider the machine secure and i wouldn't bet my life that i don't have a virus...

 

Same here. I don't use anti-virus right now on my vista side, but I never do go on any untrustworthy websites and I still don't trust it to be clean of spyware. But again I couldn't care less about it as long as it's not giving me a performance hit, since I only do online shopping/banking on OS X to be more secure. I once turned on my desktop and ran a virus scan after not using it's browser in a month and a virus was detected. If you're doing anything that can involve credit cards or private information on a Windows machine you should really have an anti-virus, no matter how responsible you are.

 

I have, at times, run various Windows-based laptops (mainly XP and 2000) for several months without av software, and I've never in my life had a virus, or spyware/adware/malware installed without my consent. It's not impossible, or even particularly difficult to avoid viruses and harmful programs.

 

True. Most would consider Myspace to be a trusted site, but they were compromised with a virus that showed up through ads. In this day and age, even trusted sites can't be trusted. Thankfully, XP SP2 was a huge step in the right direction, and Vista seems to be another.

 

It is quite interesting...I have antivirus on my desktop PC, and I haven't gotten a virus in at least three years...whereas my friend somehow has managed over 360 viruses and she also has antivirus. A lot of it is self-awareness before clicking just anything .

But getting back to the .exe thing, while .exe as a movie is absolutely not a good idea to open, it could have just been an accident, or if you were in a hurry and didn't look carefully. Everyone makes mistakes. This just brings up another thing about OS X, where you need to enter a password before opening an installation file. With Windows, up until Vista, you didn't have to do this.

 

Which is the definition of User Error. Try that while driving and you're dead. Yet somehow people expect computer technology to be "idiot proof".

 

Well, that is a user error that would have been prevented in OS X and Vista, as you would need to enter a password before the installation file would open, and most people stop and think for a moment before entering passwords (I would hope ).

 

Cashmonee's post here is exactly what my point has been since my first post but other's don't seem to understand me enough so they just fault me for stupidity. Firstly, I am not a Windows user at all. I have Windows on my Mac via VMware Fusion. It's just there for testing and nothing else so I know what might happen with a .exe file and I was never complaining if anyone really "read" my first post. The thread was about not appreciating my Mac enough and I don't always realize that I have to be careful on every crack in the pavement I step near like when running Windows.
Some things in Windows you can do nothing about. I shouldn't have to avoid certain websites due to spyware and I shouldn't have to be scared to do online banking in fear my credit card will be copied due to spyware and self-installing toolbars just by visiting certain websites. All of this doesn't happen with a Macintosh.

Please everyone, stop chastising me about the .exe file and understand the nature of the post. I simply got rid of the file and the spyware by reverting to the old snapshot in VMware. Another point was having to deal with anti-virus software and other means of protection and I don't have to go through all of that on my Mac but sometimes I tend to take it for granted.
I certainly appreciate the feedback of certain posts but please understand the nature of the post topic.

Lastly, to all the posters who felt that I should know better, if you bought your parents a Windows PC and they are not too aware of how to use it would you sit down and run over "everything" they should and should not do? I agree that people should be in the know when using their own computer but it has to be trial and error but then again on the Mac it's a lot less maintenance and more time getting work done.

 

So, to summarize this whole thread:
Spyware, malware, rootkits, viruses and other malicious code is a total pain in the ass to clean up after.

IMHO, if you are using a computer nowadays, you NEED to learn file extensions and you NEED to educate yourself on whats out there. All attachments in mail or otherwise should be HEAVILY scrutinized before they are executed or opened.

I would enjoy the virus/malware free OS X days while they are here. As Apple continues to captures more market share, like they did this year, mac users will most certainly need to wisen up or sharpen their skills because its just a matter of time before mac users are targeted.

 

Actually no, to summarize this whole thread, I don't have to deal with the Windows registry getting clogged up from simple everyday use, I don't have to deal with .dll files, I don't have to deal with uninstalling software when drag and drop to the Trash works on the Mac, I don't have to wait a year before Apple updates the OS for the better unlike Microsoft does or doesn't do for Windows.
In other words, I appreciate the Mac platform.

The thread is about appreciating the Mac OS. I wish people would stop making this thread convenient for them by ignoring the title thread and understanding the point rather than just to my situation with Windows, it's not about Windows.

 

i can't really be called a switcher, but I absolutely don't regret owning an Apple machine of my own finally, I feel it was in the last 2 years that Apple finally arrived somewhere the was truly significant, even with everything else they have done, this was the major step.

I predict a huge change in the digital world, a world where a huge portion of its population (the stupid part) ceases to exist. the world of programming and hacking should eventually get to the point where there is a much stronger focus on actually being good at it, instead of just knowing how to do it, being enough.