Considering a MBP 13", Long and rambling!

OK, here's my spew (get a drink, have a seat...)

I'm *kind* of considering a MBP (again, back-burnered this from ~6 months ago) for the woman, and of course, for me to mess around with.

The 13" model, particularly the refresh, covers a number of my requirements for a new machine:

• Small and light
  
• Extended battery life (my target would be a "full day" out, so no less than 6 hours, but preferably closer to 8)
  
• Backlit KB (this has become a semi obsession with me)
  
• Solid all around performance
  
• Can easily provide her core needs: browsing, email, video playback, photo editing, office apps (I already checked into a Mac MSO upgrade and it's cheap)

It also fulfills a few points of interest for me:

• I had a "HackIntosh", it was always fun to mess around with another OS (outside of Windows and Linux), though the constant threat of updates and driver issues leads me to tell most people, if you want OSX to really _use_, buy a Mac (I did at least support Apple via a full OS purchase).
  
• I have some interest in potentially developing for iOS. Nothing for the consumer channel through the App Store (my focus is on the enterprise and vertical markets like clinical data).
  
• It would give me an extremely portable machine (for the times I don't need my dedicated Windows machine).

On that last item, we just got back from DC, and having a machine I could have actually used on the plane (vs. my 17" behemoth) would've been excellent and everything I did at the clients, I'm 99% sure I could have done with a Mac.


Other possible checks in the pro column:

• Access to some of the OSX apps like the iLife bundle. The video and photo stuff is pretty compelling. We're so busy I don't know if we'd ever make it to this, but it's a neat option.
  
• The Wifey© will likely continue to use an iPhone and I'm convinced the iTunes/OSX experience is much better on the Mac.
  
• My folks are on deck for a new computer. They might be a prime candidate for a Mac (I'm thinking a Mini). There's a few reasons (Apple store support, ease-of-use, semi-virus free), but I'd like to have a matching OS to support them.

I'm not totally convinced it can stand in for a full on development machine for me (without going Boot Camp), but I believe it could easily support Visual Studio through a VM (so most of the core functions would remain in OSX). That even assumes I have to worry about that, honestly, I'd probably just leave the development chores to my Winders© notebook and/or desktop.

Funny enough I'm very frugal when it comes to computers (even though they're the backbone for entire business :lol: ), but as always, if I can fulfill my very specific needs, and potentially provide some new value, while not spending a substantial amount more, I'm all for it.

Let me be clear: if a Mac made my job easier, I'd have ordered one *yesterday*, price would be no object, but since it's kind of a situation of paying more for some things which may or may not wind up providing any extra value, plus introducing another OS into the works (potentially meaning more effort on my part), it's not a simple decision on my part. Also, while I appreciate the industrial design (and we're a bit into design in general), I don't need a notebook to "show off", so even if the MBP is better aesthetically, that's a very minor consideration.

Honestly, if I'm going Windows, then I won't spend $1000. For me, kind of the value proposition is that I can buy a plenty decent machine for $700-800. However, access to a whole new platform for fun, tinkering, potentially development, etc.? That might be worth the extra $300-400.

So I'm thinking that all the things I listed as pros (new platform for tinkering, iLife, iOS development, etc.), would only be ~$350 over the price of a Windows machine (or as much as I'm willing to pay for one).

Speaking of pricing, and just to confirm the best deal available: it looks like either using the Wifey's© current .EDU discount for $100 off ($1099 vs. $1199, free ship), or possibly scoring a refurb (currently there's the $1199.00 MBP for $1019). On the latter deal, it sounds like Apple refurbs are pretty clean (i.e., near new?)

It also seems like MBPs hold their value exceptionally well if EBay prices are any indicator (even the pre-refresh models), so I *think* even if there's an update in the next 6 months, a machine I buy in the next 6 days would have solid value in the used market (to trade up).

If you made it this far, congrats, you must be really bored Actually if you did, thanks, I look forward to any contribution

 

By the sounds of it you should go ahead and just get one already.

The extra "cost" in buying a Mac really depends on it's value to you. It is how do you say...an intangible asset?? Nobody can put a price on that except you.

 

Visual Studio runs fine in a VM in Win7... though I only have used it a minor amount for schoolwork.

I do most of my development for OSX and Linux in various open source projects, and rarely touch any code for Windows, so I'm definitely not an authority for Windows software development on Macs.

I have a 13" MBP 2010 I use as my main development machine, it works great Does everything I throw at it, and its nice and small. At home I have an external keyboard/mouse/monitor... but the built in screen is great for on the go, it just gets cramped when you need tons of stuff open to look at.

If you run Win7 to do development, in a VM, or directly, it will use the battery faster. Better off writing your code and doing what you can to test it in OSX if on battery power, then moving stuff over to Windows only when you need to.... this is tougher if your doing very Windows specific stuff like .NET since Mono isn't quite as current.

Not running Windows, depending on what I'm doing, I can pull anywhere from 6 to 9 hours. With Windows running in a VM, you can cut a couple of hours off those times.

 

Well, you've clearly given this purchase some thought. Have you considered the cons to the MBP?

 

Great question.

According to Mac owners, the machine is perfect so I have no worries.



I kind of touched on them in my original novel, but this would be my short list and where I'm at on each item:


Underpowered

There are definitely non-Apple machines that can be spec'ed with more impressive hardware, but I considered my use and current equipment and the "OS edge", and it should be plenty of performance.


Expensive

Without a doubt, you could buy the same hardware (let's call it "internals") for less.

Of course there are some subjective metrics like the design/aesthetics, and when you additionally factor in OSX, support/CS, and for me, the fun/flexability/business of having another major OS, the price difference is worth paying extra ... I think ...

Those two items are definitely related. You could buy more PC for the same price, or get the same specs for less money.

I will, of course, also have to buy a Prius to drive to the local Starbucks every morning.



Any other major short comings? I think for the most part of you're OK with the available performance and factor in the design, OS, etc., there's not any major design flaws that I'm aware of (though I know any hardware can fail).

 

Get the Prius. Forgo Starbucks.

Other things to keep in mind about the MBP are the following:
- the selection of ports sucks
- the video output uses Apple's DisplayPort, forcing you to pay $40 or so for an adapter
- the MBPs are pretty weighty for their size, but that does come with superior build quality
- the heat management is good/bad depending on who you ask, but the body acts as a large heat sink for internal components. As such you cannot use the machine on your lap while it is running intensive programs.
- Gaming is a major compromise in terms of platform limitations and heat management limitations.

If none of these put you off, then you're good to go.

 

I really appreciate the reply, especially (based on your sig) from an owner of the product. I know there was some kind of additional adapter depending on the specific display, and I've heard of some thermal issues, but other than the "hot seat" is sounds like it hasn't resulted in many catastrophic failures[?]

Gaming is a complete non-issue, we don't play any PC based games (we only play the occasional game on the PS3 or Wii).

I'll definitely do a little more research based on your post!

 

I don't know if anyone had any "secret" channels since I'm close to actually buying. The .EDU discount is $100, so $1099, free shipping, however close to $70 tax, so it's actually cheaper to buy through Amazon ($1149, free 2-day shipping, no tax).

Hahaha, honestly, I'm not all that concerned about $20, just slightly more convenient since I already have an account/payment setup with Amazon (and the shipping is faster).

I looked into the developer (which would be appropriate) channel, but the discount on the lower end isn't better and requires some registration and I _believe_ a registration fee.

I'm tempted to wait and see if anything pans out with Black Friday/Cyber Monday, but I know Apple products are typically excluded from sales/discounts.

I found a couple of clean used units (private sales), but the reduced warranty (which I assume is transferable) kind of balances out the lower price, not to mention the risk.

 

Refurb Macbook Pro 13 2.4GHz is $1019+tax via Apple. Should be full one year warranty IIRC: Refurbished MacBook Pro 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo - Apple Store (U.S.)

That'd save you another $80 plus tax savings on the $80 (7%?)

With your location near JAX, unless you drive to ATL you can't really use the in-store Microcenter price of $1000 which would be the best deal. I'm not sure the price diff from refurb would pay gas money to roadtrip.

 

Yeah, that's a pretty solid deal, and I've been told Apple refurb units are generally in mint condition.

The Microcenter deal(s) are always pretty outstanding. I'm surprised nobody else offers the same discount like Best Buy or even Amazon (who I would assume both move a decent amount of Apple products[?])

Too bad they don't have a location in one of my regular business destinations (usually DC) or anywhere close to where I have family. You're correct, ATL is the closest and that's ~6 hours (definitely would not offset the discount).

[edit]

Oh heck, they do have a location in Fairfax, VA, which is only about 20-25 minutes outside of where I usually go for business!

$1050 out the door. You know, I'm not in a huge rush, it might be worth waiting (and I assume I'll be back in the DC reasonably soon).

 

I was able to get a Best Buy close to a Microcenter store (Tustin, CA) to price match the Microcenter deal so that I could get the Reward Zone points and 24 months no interest), and also the convenience of returning it to a store closer to my house (Tustin is about 50 minutes away) if there was a problem with it.

Not all Best Buys, even those local to Microcenters, will price match Apple. I was able to find one that would, and it was a great experience.

 

Yeah, so I just had a little additional cup of the iKoolaid with a new iPhone 4 last week. The wife was hobbling along with an old 3G (which I sold for $150 this week), so it was time. Compared to my SGS her 3G was feeling like a stone tablet

Then I figured, why not drink a WHOLE pitcher of delicious Apple goodness. Scored a new MBP 13", 4GB, 250GB HDD for $1049 ($150 rebate, no tax, free shipping).

My OP has my long and rambling analysis, but if you're just reading this most recent post, my major considerations were:

Very portable
A good display (not just resolution either)
Long battery life
Generally good performance (good CPU and GPU for a small portable)


Other big perks for me:
Excellent build quality
Backlit KB


While a U series Asus, or Sony Y/Z[?] or even Acer Timeline fit the bill, they're all usually lacking in something, and are close to $700-750, with the Sony models actually being over $1K.

So I thought, what does the $300-350 buy me (MBP vs. a $700-750 Winders© machine):

Another platform to fool around with

A machine for potential iOS development (extending our two core apps to mobile)

A better machine for use with the aforementioned iPhone (OSX iTunes is much better vs, the Win version)

Plus, access to some really terrific software for home like iLife (the new version is pretty outstanding)

While I probably won't do any major Windows development (vs. using my workhorse HP), it'll be performance for mobile computing, office, photos, email, wife professional chores, etc.

I'm also convincing my folks to buy an iMac, so I'll have a machine that will help me, help them

Cheers

 

That $350 buys you a much superior screen and build quality, which is irreplaceable. The other systems could probably just run hackintosh though.

 

Very true.

We popped into the local Apple store (we're fortunate to have one within ~25 minutes) and it's such an amazing display of industrial design. Everything just looks, and feels terrific.

The wife's netbook which is starting to come apart, will be tossed into the closet with her two previous machines which busted due to some design issue (hinges, power connector, trackpad buttons).

I know it's kind of a taboo subject, but I know "this guy" who ran one, and it was just a PITA with the inconsistent updates that potentially break something, etc.

I know there's a bit of a premium, but if you really want to run OSX hassle free, just pay Steve.

 

It came in about an hour ago Had it booted, registered, on the network, in ~10 minutes. Updated the pre-installed iLife '09 to '11 with the supplied disk, letting it update iTunes, OS, etc., then we'll check out some iTunes with the new iP4.

Piece of cake getting it on the network and access local Winders© based resources.

The design is pretty amazing. I always forget how fantastic they're put together.

 

Hahaha, the wifey updated her FB status, re: my new iphone 4, my new Mac ... I replied YOUR Mac??

I wanted a good, clean export from the wifey's Outlook '07, and I read about a few methods of using Thunderbird as a middle step, but with inconsistent results. So I bought for $10 a little app called Outlook2Mac. It processed all the mail folders into MBOX (more of a standard vs. PST), and also exported all her contacts and all her calendar (vcf, and icf formats). Now we have a nice archive in both Outlook and a more open format. Cool.

Everything imported without a hitch. Mail, is working, with all her old folders (kind of long named, but the O2M prefixed with the Inbox + Folder + Subfolder (when applicable) so we can just edit if we want (it's mainly really old, dated stuff). Contacts look great, some dupes, but they were from thee different PSTs, so we needed to clean up anyway. iCal looks good too, everything imported right in!

*Now* when she syncs up her phone she'll really have a full mobile version of her data (I was using my machine for iTunes without syncing Outlook).

I also loaded up iPhoto with our late 2010 pics, looks terrific. It appears that with iPhoto + iTunes on the Mac, there's much better control over photo sync, which is one of my major issues with iTunes on Windows. I've just barely scratched the surface of iLife/iTunes.

What I did manage to do, is to copy over a short movie I shot with her iP4, of the little one visiting Santa, but it was upside down, but through iMovie I was able to rotate it 180° quickly and easily. I'm sure we'll do a nice produced version of the clip with a little music and whatnot. iMovie looks terrific (especially vs. Windows Movie Maker).

I also downloaded OpenOffice. I didn't see an iWork trial installed, and I knew OO works with all our MSO docs (at least the basic DOC and XLS content), so I figured for *free*, I'll just stick with that for now. One of the reasons I use Office is to get Outlook, but since we'll be using the native OSX tools for mail/contacts/calendar, all I really needed for the woman was the ability to deal with word proc docs!

I'm getting used to some of the trackpad functionality, I had no idea there were gestures with 2, 3 even 4 fingers for some operations.

 

Glad to hear everything is going smoothly and you're enjoying it