Chances of the next gen MBP lacking optical drive but with 2 HDDs

Hello, I'm possibly thinking of switching to a mac laptop for my next purchase. Granted being a computer engineer, I will be running some version of linux on it a majority of the time, so I will be mostly buying it for the HW.

Ther is one requirement that I must have for any laptop that I use. It must have the place for 2 internal drives, one being an OS/swap/apps ssd, while the other being a larger capacity spindle HDD. It's not only helpful in achieving hig capacity and low storage latency/high throughput; but it is also helpful in storing certainimportant files redundantly, without the need to resort to an external usb drive.

The currently laptop that I have is one of the few relatively svelty and light that offered such option, an HP envy 15; which omits the optical but has two hdd mounts. The one I had before was a thinkpad t60, which had modularized bay that took either an optical drive or an hdd. I'm wondering how likely it will be for the next wave of MBP to offer such an option, I mean having two internal drives, while omitting the optical bay to keep the size and weight in check.

Any I sight into this would be helpful.

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First off, don't expect Linux to work out of the box with a Macbook Pro, as Bootcamp is a Windows specific solution to dual booting. The Ubuntu wiki list hardware compatibility issues, which are numerous, especially for newer Macbook models:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro

There are boot managers that apparently work, but the safest suggestion is virtualization, either through Parallels, VMware or VirtualBox.

Various venders make 2nd HDD caddies that replace the optical drive in Macbook Pros with a 2.5" HDD or SDD. OWC is considered to be the most reliable but is also quite expensive. So, yes, plenty of MBP owners are doing a dual SSD/HDD setup.

The big question in my mind is whether there will be a big MBP redesign with Ivy Bridge. Nothing would surprise me with Apple. Maybe they'll just rehash the 2011 line with Ivy Bridge processors, or maybe they'll ditch internal optical drives and conventional HDDs. Sooner or later, there will be convergence between the MBP and MBA lines.

I'm hoping they keep the same case design and upgrade to USB 3.0.

 

The Optical Bay will not run a SSD and I don't even think it's Sata 2.0 Fyi... So if you don't care about boot times or load times then it's not a big deal but it's not as fast.

 

i'd say almost 0%. Apple is probably moving towards built-in SSDs in all of their laptops (like the macbook air).

I can't imagine two hard drives being included in an Apple laptop. There's pretty much no way.

You can take the optical drive out of the current laptops and put a hard drive in instead (you should buy a 3rd party adapter to help you mount it). But I think you're asking specifically about Apple dropping the optical drive from a future version of their macbook pro and replacing it with another hard drive.

The odds are extremely remote. Apple would almost certainly do a complete redesign, and replace that space with some combination of:

- a larger battery
- a smaller/thinner overall chassis
- faster components with extra cooling

I'd also note that if you're going to be using linux and just buying this for the hardware, Apple is one of the worst possible choices for a laptop. Hardware compatibility issues in linux are particularly rough with these laptops.

 

From past experience, it seems that there should be 3rd party boot loaders that will work, like u said. In unlikely case that there isn't, I would probably have to modify and compile one myself, not a huge issue.

Virtualization is not really going to be an option, as I will need to optimize for performance and run multithreaded code that minimized process migration and have fine grained control over certain memory consistency models. And at times I will have to work directly with certain program kernels written in assembly that exploit specific microarchteture design elements from intel, so any form of virtualization is a no go.

I hope u are rigt about the new versions coming out. Whether they do a redesign or not, I hope that don't completely ditch internal spindle drives, and at least leave them as some kind of option.

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Ah, so u are saying that the sata controller for the optical is only a sata150?

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U make a lot of good points.

Although I think that there is a good chance that they may adopt the pcb SSD modules from the MBA, and retaining the one drive bay in the laptop so as to allow for dual drives. I mean that there would only be one bay for the spindle drive, but also a solid state module integrated somewhere else into the design. That along with losing the optical would allow them to shave the weight or put in a larger battery still.

Am I totally off base here?

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Yea that is what I'm saying, if that doesn't bother you then it isn't a problem but for some reason it bothers me...

 

Yes, you are totally off base. Apple uses a minimalist design philosophy. They aren't going to have soldered solid state chips and a hard drive bay. If you really want a macbook pro with 2 hard drives, you'll have to get one before they abandon the optical drive.

Again, it won't matter much. If linux is your goal, the macbook pro is a terrible choice.

 

I'm just glad it isn't minimal to the point it's a ChromeBook and that iCloud isn't taking off as highly or hotly as anticipated... I am happy with just where it is right now in fact I often scratch my head at the actual though/idea of having a 15 inch macbook pro air that was once discussed

 

You're saying it won't take an SSD yet you say it will but with slower speeds, either it works or it doesn't.

Speed wise isn't really a problem with SATA 1.. You can't really feel a difference between a SATA1 and SATA3 drive, as the access times is what makes a SSD fast and not the read/write speeds. If not doing big read/writes at all times, probably the only reason you need high read/writes is if you're doing alot of video work. Which i doubt you are?


A SSD will work fine in the optical drive bay, period. Slower in read/writes? yes, noticeable in overall performance? No.

 

Ok first off have you done this yourself? If so please list the model of SSD you utilized and where you got your Modular Bay.

Second off an SSD will NOT go below Sata 2.0 while a normal 7,200 rpm/5,400 rpm Hdd will. If by chance you have a Sata SSD that is going below 2.0 then you got that drive from like 3-4 years ago, and sadly a current day 7,200 rpm drive is superior to it.

Third, I don't think you realize how awful you sound saying that it make no difference utilizing an SSD at 1.0, next you'll be saying there is no difference between Sata 1.0 and Sata 3.0 SSD Drive. (Find me the non-average user who even owns an SSD and actually doesn't mind utilizing his SSD at a 1.0 Speed) That's pretty much saying you drive a porsche that only goes up to 2 or 3 speeds and you won't notice a difference between that and a 6 speed. Although the comparison is a little over the top, consider the user who owns an SSD drive to begin with and then ask yourself why he owns that and what he/she wishes to achieve. **If you couldn't answer this yourself it's Fast Boot Speeds and fast reading/writing** And this is where you're WRONG windows will boot up considerably slower and when you move files of massive size you'll definitely see a slow down like when you download a movie .mkv like I do every other day....

Does that solve any questions or disparities you have? I really hope you're able to figure out the rest on your own. End Point is don't stick an SSD in there only in primary if you choose to have an SSD.

Fyi, Every single one of my laptops has an SSD drive as I own in total 5 SSD drives and not one of them goes below 2.0. And the 60gb Corsair one in your doesn't either*

 

why don't you just put the hard drive in the optical slot and the SSD where the hard drive was...

use yer brain

 

Forgive my ignorance. Someone told me that all Mac programs must be located on the same drive to function.... Is this the case? Or can I have a 128 SSD for OS and programs and then a larger HDD in the optical bay for media, less used programs etc?

Thanks!

 

Well, my Crucial (C300/M4) and Intel (no idea, old) SSDs work fine with a SATA1 USB adapter. /shrug

 

Stick it into a Modular Bay then get back to me please, I'm not the only one whose reported this, Google it yourself if you don't believe me there are multiple threads on this and I tried a Corsair SSD an Intel SSD and a Samsung SSD and none of those were detected...

 

If you read my original posts, in other threads as I've brought this up before you'd see I've already said that...

 

I would swap my superdrive with my current 500gb 7200 drive but i was told adding a second drive to MBP will increase temps and possibly damage the internals

 

Nope. Although internal temperatures may increase (that is if you are constantly accessing both hard drives), it won't cause problems and is nothing that the internal cooling system can't handle (no different than accessing the optical drive and primary HDD at the same time). Of course, if you leave your SSD in the primary HDD slot, you aren't going to have to worry about anything heat wise.

 

Even with a 7200rpm drive in the superdrive slot? And from what i hear ssds pretty much put out no heat. True?

If temps wont be an issue then ill do ahead and do this.

 

So can I assume that my question regarding the two drives and program locations was completely wrong and nor worth answering?

 

Not likely going 2 b a problem. Most designs have some design safety factor in terms of thermal envelope. And if u have 1 ssd and 1 hdd in a laptop, the total thermals is not likely to exceed that of a hdd + optical when running. SSD, with the right design and chips, have much lower termal output of a spindle drive, and likely has lower thermals of an optical as well.

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Right. From what I have read online, SSDs produce a much smaller amount of heat than HDDs even when they (the SSDs) are consistently being accessed. I did notice this with my 13" MBP after swapping out the HDD for an SSD and later opening it up again. I had been running my MBP for 3 hours and shut it down to install the SSD. The HDD was still rather hot. One day (much later), I had to open up my MBP. I touched the SSD after everything had been running for 4 hours and it was warm. So that right there won't be an issue. Swap out the optical drive and putting in an HDD shouldn't be a problem either even if it is replaced with a 7200RPM HDD. I don't know if any speed advantages will be observed in doing that especially since the optical bay is limited to SATA I but it can still be done. Personally I suggest buying a 5400 RPM 1TB HDD instead and having the extra capacity since you probably aren't going to see any benefit in going with a 7200RPM HDD.

Magjua, I didn't realize that we had to stop and answer your question. These forums are mostly made up of volunteers and people are allowed to pick and choose which ones they want to answer. What you did was essentially make a question and then bump it the next day by trying to insult the volunteers you were asking for an answer. Good luck with that.

 

Just a warning though, there is a chance that the optical drive opening plays a role in the dissipation of heat from the logic board and the chassis. Some designs with a slot load drive figures the slot opening as a contributor to thermal dissipation, I don't know about the current MBP specifically. So u might want to chose those third party designs that mimic the structure of the AAPL designed bay, and ones that do not obstruct air flow, just 2 b on the safe sdie.

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I don't think there really is any airflow coming out of the super drives on the MBP's. Apple has come type of cover over the slots anyway so any airflow is going to be obstructed. Besides, that would all be airflow coming from the super drive itself and not the cooling system in a MBP. Given that the cover is made of some type of heavy fabric (felt), I also doubt they are using it to dissipate heat. It appears that Apple is relying on the chassis to dissipate a portion of heat while using the cooling system to really take things up if need be. I don't think they are using the super drive to dissipate any excess heat.

 

Sounds good, no worries then, everything should work fine

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They might offer dual SSDs in the 17" (expect to spend close to $500 or more ) model but why would they go ssd and then still have the old technology in there? not something apple would do. besides the new ones are basically confirmed to be as thing as the air's which would make the 2.5 drives a huge hassle to fit in there (if even possible)

 

There is a huge difference between "basically confirmed" and "rumors that have been popping up for over a year now." Nothing has been "basically confirmed," absolutely nothing. Apple could refresh their entire notebook series to be just like the current MBA, they could introduce MBA's with larger displays and keep them separate from the MBP, or they can keep their current lineup as-is. Nothing will be confirmed until it is officially announced by Apple. Until then, any information is just conjecture often spit out by websites just trying to generate hits and ad revenue.

 

Im quite surprised how cool my MBP runs now with SSD and the 7200rpm drive out. After hours it being on, it doesnt even get warm on the palmrest where the 7200rpm always was warm.

I also think it turns the fans on less often too, but not sure if thats just me hoping.

I dont think ill put the 7200rpm drive in cause itll just make it noiser again. I like how its completely silent right now. Im guessing if i put the 7200rpm drive in the superdrive itll make the fans run more often again. if so then ill do without it, its nice this way before my fans would always run on max often for short spurts here and there, very annoying.

 

this is very true.

The only thing we know for sure is that IF apple does a redesign and models their 15"+ offerings on the macbook air, there is no way they will suddenly go for 2x 2.5" hard drives, and there's a good chance there would be 0x 2.5" hard drives.

That doesn't even begin to answer the question of if/when apple will push a redesign on their 15"+ display laptops.

 

I don't think any1 here is talking about 2 x 2.5 drives. The scenario under discussion is 1x 2.5" drive bay for the spindle drive, and an onboard-sata module for the ssd. There will not likely be any need to put the ssd into a bay now that AAPL has adopted the more compact formfactor for solid state storage.

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It still seems like a very remote possibility. I'll accept that a hybrid solution is more likely than 2 full bays, but still extremely unlikely.

2x 2.5" drives = <1%
1x motherboard drive + 1x 2.5" drive = <4%
1x motherboard drive = 30%
1x 2.5" drive = >65%

There you go. For reasons of compatibility, they can't drop support for 2.5" hard drives. People need storage space. For reasons of cost, they can't include large built-in SSDs on all models. For reasons of practicality, they aren't going to include small SSDs with hard drives. It's just not that useful per the cost. Although you have a good application for it, most people would not. It seems clear that they would lose money compared to not implementing that feature.

Moreover, getting back to your original point, you can already get a macbook pro with 2 hard drives, and it's a pretty terrible choice for linux. They primary differentiating factor between new apple laptops and older apple laptops for linux users is that newer models are even more terrible of a choice. So, regardless of the hard drive situation, it's time to keep looking. Ideally, you'll want to find something with supported linux drivers, but minimally you'll need to make sure people have the hardware working.

 

I've just been skimming around because of boredom and saw your sig and man..... reading your specs, it's like the ideal machine.. Nice job.

Still a fresh fish in these forums, so not really sure what an Apple Probook, but would I be right if I said it was a 4430s running OSX?

 

i don't thin apple would put m-sata SSD in the MBP. if they do, they'll be hurting the sales of the MBA.

then again, with a machine this thin and small, it's almost impossible adding a 2nd hdd without ditching the ODD (which i still use)

 

Adding an m-SATA SSD and keeping the same form factor would not hurt MBA sales. Apple could add an m-SATA SSD for storing the OS and programs, a secondary HDD so you can store media and other various files, and keep the SuperDrive. I doubt they would do something like that though as it would increase costs. Not only would the MBP line need a new logic board (one with m-SATA) but and HDD + SSD will be more expensive than just an HDD.

Either way, I don't see Apple changing anything with the MBP in terms of internal storage and the optical drive. If anything, I think more change is going to happen to the MBA line with the addition of a unit with a larger display. I don't think the MBP line is going anywhere soon though, it is just that there will likely be more development for the MBA instead (i.e. changing more things, adding a new 15" system, etc.). There isn't much that can be changed with the MBP other than using a new metal, slightly changing the design here and there, and introducing a new color.

 

Im one of the hopefuls with no base that still wish that apple would ditch the ODD and get more cooling space and/or more battery space, with a change in their screen res, since that ipad3 screen is looking awesome so far

 

it's pretty funny that HP has something called a probook, but it's not my machine. It's lacking solid AMD graphics, ivy bridge processor, and the not-yet-invented 1080p IPS e/ink display, among other things.

 

Im actually hoping for a 7700m series in the mbp 15 and 17, since the 7690m is just a rebadged 6770m.

But that would be one sweet machine, I have played with a z21 for 2 months, almost kept it, the high res made a lot of difference on how I work, not to mention the great quality.

 

There is also a diff in idle power consumption, not sure if u will make the compromise there. If some1 runs it on some low load 3d graphics program, that might affect things

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I agree with Masterchief341. Apple would never support dual drives intentionally. Simplicity, ease of use, and in a sense non-upgradability, are hallmarks of apple. Why sell you a laptop you can upgrade when we can sell you another better faster laptop next year and make 2x the money! Apple doesn't use SD cards in iPhones and they don't want you to upgrade your HDD. I think apple will probably start using non-upgradable SSDs on all their laptops, if not with this refresh, then the next one. it fits their corporate vision of cool sleek disposable devices. BTW, I am not anti-apple. I actually like their stuff, nothing beats it for what it does.

 

also, modular bays with user accessible internal components can become a space tradeoff. since apple is going for as minimal as possible with their hardware design choices, this can be a factor.

 

ya i don't see it happen either. if the optical drive is gone, it will only be their perfect reason to make room for thinner body

 

Who knows what Apple has got up their sleeve. Here is my guess:

Retina displays. slimmer (but not MBA slim) profile. Much larger battery. And possibly two SSD (not soldered but not 2.5" either). I say two SSDs because to make them available with a single large 750+GB SSD seems pretty expensive. And the MBP consumers are often looking for the most drive space, not the tiny drives in the air.

And since I'm guessing, I'll also guess that the SSDs are removable and upgradable and not soldered. I will perhaps buy a new Mac laptop late this year or next year. Anxious to see where they take it.

 

I wonder if they will do a hybrid drive...