Buyers Advice - MacBook Pro vs. Thinkpad

Not sure if it's the new Core2Duo chips, the Boot Camp/Parallel options, or all those **** commercials with the kid from Ed...but I've put a new Thinkpad purchase on hold to consider buying a MacBook Pro. I've never really used a Mac, but am really considering it. My uses would be mostly office apps, websurfing/e-mail, Visual Studio C#.Net programming, and video editing.

I'm looking at the 15.4 Pro and comparing to the Thinkpad Z61t and t60 (both 14.1). I wish I could get the MBP (1440x900) in a higher resolution. For software development and even word processing, I'd rather have more screen real estate.

Some questions on the MBP, since I'm just starting to look at them:

1) You can't get a 7200rpm drive in the MBP...how would the 5400 impact performace (especially for video editing)?

2) Heat issues on the MBP...I hear this has been a pretty major concern?

3) What's the upgrade cycle on the MBP? I read some posts about waiting until January to buy...what would be the next "upgrade"?

4) Stability...I've read the first few versions of the MBP were a bit unstable with random shutdown. Has this been resolved (or was it an overblown "problem" to begin with)?

5) Any other thoughts for a total Apple novice who'd be using BootCamp or Parallel quite a bit? I've been told I'll gradually start to use MacOS for most general tasks over time...let the conversion begin!

Thanks.

-Dave

 

Ok I'll answer them in order.
1. Yes, a 5400 RPM will be slower for video editing. I do not know why Apple does not off the 7200 anymore. One solution is get a large external. That will give you a size and performance boost.

2. That seems to have been solved, at least on the CoreDuo version. I don;t think enough people have the C2D to really know. It seems they have clocked the GPU higher, so I would imagine they had to have figured out something. I would not think it will be a big issue.

3. The next upgrade will probably be to Intel's Santa Rosa platform. I have heard that Intel will release that anywhere from January to March or April. It would be at least 6 months likely before they release a new one.

4. The random shutdown was with MacBooks, not MacBook Pros. Reports are varied on whether they have really fixed it.

5. Parallels is great. I use it for all my Windows needs, which to be honest are extremely minimal at this point. For most things I have figured out how to do them in OS X and find Windows miserable. For you, the Windows side will be more important obviously. The nice thing about Parallels is that it is great for testing stuff like new software. It is a VM so you can make a backup and abuse the main copy. If something goes wrong, open the backup start over. I would consider installing both if I were you. I would use Parallels almost exclusively, but jump into Boot Camp if something goes wrong with your coding. That way you can rule out Parallels being the issue.

Hope that was clear enough. I kind of babbled i think at the end. Good luck!

 

Fast response...thanks!

I suspect, I'll mostly get glowing recommendations for the MBP. 2 more questions...

VM? I hate to say I don't know what that means...

Glossy vs matte screen?

 

VM stands for Virtual Machine. Basically it is Windows running inside OS X. Kind of like a walled garden. Glossy vs matte is a personal preference. I hate glossy, but there are a ton of people who love it.

 

i must disagree with you cashmoone... he is gonna mainly gonna use it for "office apps, websurfing/e-mail, Visual Studio C#.Net programming, and video editing." so a apart from video editing, windows based notebook should suite him more.

parralel is still in beta.

MacOS is great. apart from rather minimalist (dare i say weak?) explorer/finder its a great alternative to windows, some hardware i have has glitches on it; such as my seagate external harddrive always blip when i disconnect it, my sister's also does this.

just be prepared on some website or media (such as movie, music, etc). for example i usually go to a website and it roughly says: "sorry this website is made for internet explorer, get internet explorer now" click it and it says "internet explorer for mac has been discontinued"... something like that.

edit: i loved glossy! it not that distracting indoors or outdoor; the only distracting place is in a well-lit office, filled fluorocent light. the glossy is not as reflective as the one from HP. i found HP's to be the most reflective/annoying out of the bunch. Sony, toshiba and apple; produce some of the best glossy screen; they have some sort of anti-relfective feature. Sony's one have a violet tinge to it; sort of like the one you get from a glasses. Toshiba and apple has some sort of transparent coating, which prevent reflection well.

 

Uhh, Parallels is not in beta. It has been released for a few months now. Also, for web surfing/email, I would say Mac is probably better due to security. As for IE only sites, they are few and far between, in fact I cannot remember the last time I came across one. I will give you that there is still some .wmv formats that do not work in Flip4Mac, but they are becoming rarer as well. I am also not sure why you worry so much about a little extra activity on your external, that is not a glitch. Does it work properly? I agree that a Windows PC would work well for him, but if you read the questions he asked, he was just researching the capabilities of the MacBook Pro. He was not asking which is better or even for a recommendation, he just was looking to et some questions answered.

 

Boot camp is in beta, not parallels.

I do a lot of the same sutff you do, I do software development and such, and I can tell you it's great using a mac for it. Parallels is AMAZING!

Unfortunantly I don' thave the money for the license, but in a few months it's mine!
Yes, the MBP gets hot, but only rarely does it get HOT HOT HOT!!!
Usually thats when it's under full load and charging. But it's still cooler than some other laptops I've used.

As I understand it, teh 160 gig drive is a perpindicular drive, so it's supposed to be a lot faster than normal 5400 drives. I'm not positive on this, it's just what i've heard. I'd look around for benchmarks, as the perpindicular mechanics are aparantly going to be the new thing.

 

ooops sorry... i know... my head gone cucckooo, thats what u do when u cant sleep and writing in a forum at 4AM lol.

 

Thanks again. Still torn on the purchase, but your input was awesome. The heat factor is a pretty big concern, as I've seen it mentioned in most reviews. How's battery life in a real world setting? I know the C2Duo are only out a few weeks, but I'm curiosu to see if they impact battery life.

 

Personally I would go with the MacBook but I am very bias

 

Under full load, mbp gets to be around mid 70s to mid 80s degree Celcius. Under normal usuage, 40s-high 50s. The interesting thing to take into account and most likely why there are so many posts out there concerning the mbp heat is that during normal usuage, the bottomside still gets hot. I mean very very hot, so much that skin contact is not preferable. This might be due to aluminum casing which doesnt entrap heat very well (Good thing).

You might want to check out the Thinksecret forum. There are some threads with actual temp. readings from core temp to heatsinks of mbp owners.

The dedicated graphic card. Not as pretty, if you care about such things. Smaller screen. Whites one get dirty so fast. But for the price, nothing beats it.

Best of Luck.

 

Wow... thats an old post yoru bringing up Shal.

But the bottom side does not get hot under normal usage. I've only seen that in the very first edition of the MBP, which they basically recalled it and replaced the logic board and heatsink. The second gen CD units didn't get hot under normal usage. At all. With SMC Fan Control, and the fans going at 2000-4000rpm, it stays cool under anything but the heaviest load.
Even then it's still able to be put on your legs. Bare. I've played WoW for hours with it at it's hottest on my bare legs before. Yeah, it's hot. But not burning hot like my Sager was.

At a light load (25% of resources being used) the processor and video card stay at around 50 degrees Celsius. The bottom of the case is roughly half that. From what I've read and heard, the C2D units are even cooler.

What kills me personally about thinkpads is the keyboard and the useless trackpad. I had got two of them in at my old job (don't remember models) and even after a month, the guys who were using them still didn't the keyboards and hated the trackpads. While the keyboards on them are probably one of the top out there, MBP is by far the best I've personally ever used. And it has a MUCH nicer trackpad. IBM puts in a barely functional tiny trackpad in.

But honestly, if I were to be looking at a portable thinkpad vs. MBP, I'd end up with a MB :-D

Hope this helps if anyone else happens to be wondering this at the this time

 

On Apple's U.S. student website at least, you can opt for a 160 GB 7200 rpm drive. Thats what I have.

 

At the time that this was originally posted (this is a VERY old thread) there was no option to get a 7200 rpm drive on the 15" MBP. They had the 100 gig 7200 available for a while, then removed it. But the 160 gig 5400 rpm was reported to be just as fast.

 

LOL. I like to read from the beginning.

The second gen. mbp still gets very hot especially toward the bottom backend. While I dont how you position your notebook when it is on your lap but by supporting the mbp with my thigh on its outer edge, I can only then handle the heat.

And when I talk about heat, I am not talking about actual temp reading from the cores or heatsink but of what is radiated outside. And my mbp when under normal usuage, the internal temp is not high but the bottom still feels like an infernal. I am attributing this idiosyncrasy to the metal casing.

 

I rest mine completely on my legs. Yes, the 2nd gen MBP (CD units) still get hot, but it really isn't too bad IMHO. I've used several laptops from Gateway as well as some from Dell and Sager that are MUCH hotter. But at least the MBP don't get hot under NO load like they used to.
And honestly, while it maybe hotter than some of the others, I prefer that the heat radiates out from the casing. The reason I prefer this, is because if you are having the fans blow exhaust out the bottom, its too easy to block those vents and cause your hardware to overheat and possibly be damaged (which ruined my Sager).

 

I agree with you that I rather have the heat radiate outside than be insulated but because of this metal casing, new mbp/powerbook owners are feeling something that seems excessive. Considering the specs, I am still not sure if it is excessive considering internal temp. Regarding outside heat that is being felt by skin contact, I have to repeat something a Fujitsu Rep. once told me, "Notebooks are not called laptops for a reason, they are not meant to be used on the lap."

 

it's just physics. the power envelope of the CPU and the form factor of the MBP require the case to act as heatsink.

you can make it a little bit cooler by cranking up the fans but in my own experiments that didnt really change the outside case temps. pointing an outside fan at the case cools it down very quickly though more so than other laptops because the entire outer surface area of the MBP actually is a heatsink.

I find it OK on my lap when on battery. So the real life limitations are that you can't have it on your thighs when doing heavy number crunching / gaming or whilst charging the laptop. I can live with it.

Another good point is that all Core 2 laptops get very hot on the underside. My Acer is a Core Duo - the older, hotter model of the CPU - and if anything it gets hotter than the MBP on the underside.

 

if you order online from apple you can get a 7200 rpm drive