Are you worried about MBA's depreciation?

Is this the right time to buy MBA? I got in on a great deal on the 13/128 MBA, but even then I am not sure if this is the right time to buy it. Several ultrabooks will be introduced in the next couple months and they all look fantastic (mainly because they all look like MBA). I am sure they will undercut MBA's pricing too (PC are vulnerable to discount, promotion...etc). One of the big appeal of MBA is the unibody construction, but that too has been copied by PC manufacturers. So...do you think we should just wait a few more months and see whether Apple will cave in lowering the price, perhaps ivy bridge time frame?

 

I do, I cant sleep for 3 days because of this

 

If you're buying a laptop as an investment, you are clearly doing it wrong.

Apple generally doesn't like to lower prices. They either upgrade/change the hardware or they outright kill the model. Buy the Air now if you want a Mac. Wait for a similar PC if you'd rather like something with Windows on it (there'll always be better just around the corner though).

 

Actually, now would be a really good time to buy the MBA simply because Apple updated it not too long ago (last month?). That way it still has quite a bit of time before Apple updates the hardware again or comes out with a complete re-design. Although ultrabooks are coming out soon, I don't see that as a problem. They are going to be priced around $1000 so the MBA is going to carry that "Apple tax" that seems to apply to almost all Macs. It is no different than the MBP or iMac yet those are two successful Macs. Hell, HP is selling the Envy 14 with a quad-core processor for $300 less than the core i7 (which is dual-core) 13" MBP.

That doesn't really change anything. People who want to buy a Mac are going to buy a Mac and people who want Windows are going to buy a Windows PC. The introduction of a less expensive competitor to the MBA is nothing new and the value of the MBA is not going to drastically decrease because of that. In fact, people are still successfully selling their 2010 13" MBA's for over $1000-$1200 online despite those being replaced. Macs tend to hold a higher resale value. I know I could probably sell my 13" MBP next year for about a $200 loss if I wanted to (especially since I am going to slap a 120GB SSD in there and it already has 8GB of RAM).

 

This ⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧.

The OP is completely ignoring the fact that those upcoming Ultrabooks don't run OS X. He said the main appeal of the MBA is the construction...perhaps to some, but at the end of the day the appeal of a Mac is the Mac OS. If a person is even thinking of getting a MBA to run Windows primarily then they should just go get an Ultrabook or the new Sony Vaio Z21.

@OP, I'll say this I'm willing to bet those sub $1000 and less ultrabooks won't have a screen as good as the $1000 MBA or backlit keyboard or the ambient light sensor. I'm not at all worried about the MBA's deprecation. I'd be more worried for the competitors TBH. With HP basically dropping out of the game there will be others that will find that they can't compete with Apple mainly because they don't design their own hardware and OS together.

 

Of course, you better take my post with a grain of salt especially since I said the same thing in another thread and it was shot down. What do I know? Here I thought people bought Macs to run Mac OS X so that the hardware was integrated with the software while also having Apple's clean designs. Stupid me, people buy Macs because they are purdy. /sarcasm

 

Apple products don't depreciate in value generally, I mean there are plenty of computers like the white macbook and its resale value is fine.

 

It's a computer, not a house. I've never worried about reselling my Macs.

 

I've never resold a machine so I've never worried about depreciation. I buy a new one every three years, and for years 4-6, my previous machine serves as a backup machine (what my wife and kids use when I have a business trip, or what we use when we need two machines at once, etc). After year six, they're so darned worn out they're basically useless anyway.

Buy what you like, use it hard, enjoy it. All laptops are going to depreciate significantly, some just do it slightly faster than others. Save the investment worrying for, y'know, investing.

 

Investing in a computer is fine, but you have to realize your profits are not monetary, its about what personal use you get out of the computer. If you are only going by money... you will always lose a lot of money unless you are actually in the reselling business and do big bulk orders...

 

Well you're right that there's a group of people that definitely buy a Mac to run Mac OS X, but there's also quite a few people (I see them all of the time in the Apple stores) that buy them because they're intrigued by how "pretty" they look. Hell, my own parents did that...

Having to sit down and show/explain all of the differences between Windows and OS X to them was incredibly painful.

 

The majority buy a Mac for the operating system. People know it's a different system. Most people coming in to buy an Apple are sick of Windows and want a change. You don't spend enough time inside Apple stores to know how many people buy them based on looks alone. Besides there's nothing wrong with that. EVERYBODY buys something on looks to some extent. Anyone here says they buy function over form all of the time is a complete liar. LOL. We all do, it's human nature. But in this case you're wrong that only a "group" buy for OS X and the rest buy for "pretty".
What does that say about the people who buy cheapo PC's on Black Friday? They buy on price only and probably don't even know if Windows is on the machine or not. That's far worse than buying a Mac because it's pretty, at least people buying a Mac KNOW they are getting something different than your standard plain jane PC.

 

^^do we have numbers for that?

 

I can say for sure my Aunt bought a Macbook Air for looks/style/weight and didn't know anything about OSX.

I don't really see a problem with that, I mean my aunt buys nice vases, glassware, wood sculptures and stuff because she has a good amount of money and she buys those things for looks, whats wrong with buying a computer for looks? You can't really do much productive work on a nice sculpture.

Also I didn't buy my MBP 15" for OSX I bought it because it was powerful and got a ton of battery life, while still being small, compact, and it was made out of metal and I was tired of plastic. I also liked the screen. OSX is good for bootup/coming out of sleep but I don't think OSX is that much better then Windows. The unix integration is probably the best part for me, because I use terminal a lot without having to go into linux. I also bought it for Apple's top notch customer support, I had bad experiences with my Xbox 360 and previous HP laptop.

 

I actually know a lot of people who have cross-shopped Apple and Windows competitors, particularly cross-shopping the Air with Samsung and Asus competitors. Based on my non-scientific observations, I think cross-shopping OSes is rare with desktops and desktop-replacement laptops, but very common with smaller and ultraportable laptops.

I don't see anything wrong with it either. I think buying because you want a brand name is a little silly, but buying because you like the aesthetic looks of something that's sitting in the middle of your room each and every day? What's wrong with that? Like you said, people do it with furniture, lamps, plumbing fixtures, etc. Nobody in the upper-middle-class buys a faucet based solely upon how well it puts water in the sink without a thought to how it looks. Same with handbags that get carried around all day. The same is true of laptops that sit around the house all day, or get carried with you all day, and I don't see a problem with that.

 

Well, I didn't say there was anything wrong with that at all. I'm just pointing out that there's quite a few people out there who can't be bothered to know the difference immediately or just flat out don't understand about the OS. They look at the computer and realize afterwards that the OS is different. Some can deal with the learning curve, others can't.

 

Well, another day and guess what? More ultrabooks announced!

Lenovo, Toshiba...I am sure we will hear from more manufactuers soon. Is this time to panic?

 

The only situation in which you should panic is if this is your first alert that all computers depreciate extremely quickly. They are like cars.

If you expected otherwise, you were misinformed.

 

It should also be noted that many have yet to announce prices for their ultra books other than stating they will start at below $1000 (which likely means $999.99). Lenovo showed off a rather nice looking ultra book with a backlight keyboard, i7 processor, etc. and that will probably compete more in line with the 13" MBA's price. So no, there isn't any need to panic. Besides, as already pointed out, the onslaught of ultra books doesn't mean anything for Macs other than there being more Windows competitors to the MacBook Air. It is no different than the HP Envy 14 going up against the 13" MBP, the Envy 15" up against the 15" MBP, some Sony model going up against the 15" MBP, a Samsung 15" MBP competitor, and so on.

There will always be some Windows variant competitor in the same categories as Apple's MacBook lineup. That hasn't changed and it will never change. Want an ultra thin Mac? Get the MacBook Air. Want an ultra thing Windows machine? Get an ultra book. The introduction of one over the other is going to have absolutely no affect on either product line. Worry about ultra books is like worrying about how the Kindle competes with the iPad or how the Droid X 2 goes up against the iPhone 4 (and eventual iPhone 5). So what? There will always be something to go up against Apple's products and that isn't going to change their value. This has been true since 1998 (and even long before then) and it isn't going to change.

 

Can you prove me wrong?

 

You're the one who made the claim: "Most people coming in to buy an Apple are sick of Windows and want a change." If someone disputes the claim, I think it's up to you to find some support for that claim, not up to others to disprove it. Just my opinion.

If there's any publicly-available data either way that answers whether a majority of Apple buyers are primarily motivated by style and features, or primarily motivated by operating system, I don't know of that data. Do you?

 

I think most people here are smart enough to know that most Windows customers that are going directly to Apple to buy one of their computers does so because they are sick of their old Windows machine and want a change. I'm willing to give the average consumer the benefit of the doubt that they are not so stupid that they wouldn't know they weren't buying a Windows machine when they came to buy an Apple. It's usually their old PC has Windows viruses, it's slow, won't boot up anymore or they are just frustrated with being frustrated.
I'm pretty sure most of us have family and friends in that situation.
Some of the geeks on here see differently because they are only thinking of how they view Apple and not how the average consumer does.

I'm sure the average consumer doesn't come in the Apple Store and says, "Hey, I wanna buy a Mac because of that awesome OS X system", but I'm sure they know a Mac has a different system, they've heard that's it's good and secure and of course they've seen someone with one and thought it looked "pretty". So my point was that most customers buy an a Mac for the whole package, not just because they want a prettier machine than their last one. I don't think the worst of people like some of the uber geeks on this forum. The average consumer isn't as stupid as the uber geeks think they are.

 

I didn't say anything remotely like calling people stupid. I know people who have bought MacBook Airs over Samsung Series 9s SOLELY because they liked the build quality and the looks better. The more and more Apple emphasizes premium materials and style, the more buyers are going to be drawn to the company because of that.

I used to know a lot of people who would switch solely because of the OS. Frankly, in the era of Windows 7 and Microsoft Security Essentials, I don't know that many people who do that anymore. For the people I know going to Apple, style, battery life, and the touchpad tend to be bigger selling points than OSX versus Lion. Just the people I know.

I'm not insulting anybody by saying that. Choosing an Air because you like the style and the clickpad, not because you prefer OSX over Win 7, is DEFINITELY NOT inferior or stupid reasoning.

 

I never said "you" said anyone was stupid. I was only making a point. In fact you're one of the people on this forum for whom I agree with in the points you make.

Now the only thing I will say is unfortunately your post about Windows 7 puts you into my "geek" category. It's not well known to the average consumer that Windows 7 is a decent OS. Most of the world still views Windows as a virus absorbing, spyware laden OS and that remains stuck in a lot of legacy customer's heads and it will take Microsoft years before that pain is washed away. This is still the main reason people are switching to Macs.

What did you mean by "OS X vs. Lion". Are they not one in the same?

 

Those are a lot of claims, but I mean I think to say that you need market research.

Are you telling me Apple would sell as many computers if they looked like crap, didn't have as good touchpads, didn't have the build quality, didn't have the customer support (Apple Store/genius), but just had OSX?

OSX isn't that much better then Windows 7. And I mean I think a lot of people are fine with Windows. To me a mac was better because of the hardware not the software. If you buy a nice Windows laptop and put in an SSD its as fast as a mac, and Windows 7 is a solid OS. I don't think people view Windows as terrible. I personally like Windows more then I like Windows PC manufacturers like HP.

To me OSX has some personal problems, such as inability to run altium/solidworks and inability to properly use gaming mice.

 

HL Dan--

"OSX versus Lion" was a typo. I meant to type "OSX versus Windows 7," like I did in the rest of the post.

You say I didn't say anyone was stupid, but you say "I don't think the worst of people like some of the uber geeks on this forum. The average consumer isn't as stupid as the uber geeks think they are," and then you say I'm one of the geeks on the forum. I said it before and I'll say it again: I do not think average consumers are stupid. And I never said otherwise.

 

I don't need market research and I'm not just making claims. You're thinking only as a geek if you think the majority of consumers are well informed that Windows 7 is a decent OS. They don't know that. They just hear the word "PC" and they remember the poor experience they had in the past with their Windows machine. It's just the same as some people still thinking that a Mac doesn't run MS Office. Well most of the NBR folks here know differently but the average customer thinks Office only runs on Windows and Windows is still a poor, virus and spyware laden OS. What IS unfortunately true about Windows 7 is that it still has that horrible Registry that slows up the system so don't try and make Windows 7 to be something radically fantastic. It's decent, but that's about it.

I never said any of the sort, nor did I insinuate that.

That's subjective. The Registry alone puts a dark cloud on the Windows experience still.

You're right, but generally because it comes installed on the PC they are willing to pay for (example, Black Friday sales), or they want to play games that don't run on Mac.

I've seen quite a few PC users wanting Apple to make iLife and Final Cut for Windows. In addition to that I've seen many PC desktops right here in NBR that have Mac OS inspired desktops. Fake Docks, fake Stacks, menu bars and Mac icons in the Task Bar.

Yep, but only after a fresh install of your own copy of Windows is installed and you dump the preinstalled version. But only after a few months the Registry will slow down that puppy.

It's not really about "Windows" it's about the whole PC experience that people see as poor. When their machine craps out it's not usually the hardware, it's the OS. Then they buy a whole new Windows machine and at some point they end up with the same experience. Is it the customer's fault? Yes, on some level, but should the customer have to work on Windows so much to keep it a float? No.

Wow, those are some really serious personal problems OS X has. I Better get a Windows 7 machine.

 

Here's a data point for you all.

My wife's Gateway desktop died. My HP DV6000 (piece of crap from day one) might as well be dead (well, the wireless is).

After looking at several Win 7 machines, I just bought her an iMac 21" and replaced my HP with an MBP 13". There is just no comparison between these Macs and roughly equivalent Windows machines. Yes, there may have been a $100 price discrepancy. Assuming the Macs are reliable, that's nothing.

For what it's worth, we had been using DOS or Windows exclusively since 1988.

(Disclaimer: I have a personal Thinkpad W500 for my work, which requires a Windows machine. It is a solid piece of hardware, and Windows 7 is a decent OS. Provided I continue working -- one never knows in this era -- I'llcontinue to buy Thinkpads for work.)

Speaking as a 'consumer', I love the Macs. I doubt I'll ever buy another Windows machine for the home.

 

Ha, if OSX has 'personal problems', Windows is a serial axe murderer

 

Haha true!

Okay, maybe I should've made my post a little more clear. IMO, we are ALL geeks on this forum, heck on any forum. The average Joe doesn't register on forums unless they have a high interest in a particular subject and love talking about it, therefore they would be considered a geek for that category. I did use the term "uber geek" when describing the people here that think any tech customer outside of this forum is stupid.

I've read it all too many times. Heck, people insult Mac users on this very forum. I read it all the time, "Macs are for stupid people", "Macs are for people that know nothing about computers", "Macs are for people that want something pretty". Those lines are pretty insulting and I see that a lot from the Windows fans that visit here to troll of course. They, to me, are the "Uber Geeks" that think they are smarter than everyone else when nothing could be further from the truth.

So just to be clear, I never once said you called anyone stupid nor do I see you as that type of "geek" here. I definitely have valued your posts. I don't agree with everything you've posted but I've seen value in a lot of them. No point in having a forum discussion if we have to agree with everything.

 

I never said that people don't buy macs for OSX, some people buy them for OSX. I didn't. All I'm saying is not everybody buys them for OSX. By personal problems I meant problems with the OS that not everybody might have. I can understand the no altium/solidworks but the lack of gaming mouse support is very annoying I can tell a huge difference on a Windows PC with my G700 over a Mac.

Not everyone would buy an OSX machine over a Windows machine if they were the same price either. If they would Apple would sell notebooks at a cheaper price point. Some people like Windows 7 over OSX. I don't know why you think the Windows registry is so bad, my friends Vaio Z runs just as fast as the day he bought it. Gaming desktops I've built are just as fast with Windows 7 installed on them as the day they were made.

I love my MBP 15. All I'm saying is what I love about it is not necessarily OSX but the other things on it. For example I will tell anyone that Apple has AAA customer support, you don't get customer support like Apple's from any Windows PC manufacturer. I saw a Genius help 1 lady for 45 minutes on basic computer features, and they gave me a free replacement for a minor screen problem that took a long time to fix. OSX wasn't the main reason I bought my MBP, I've never really used iLife other then iPhoto maybe.

 

It's fine to debate and clash over laptops' merits/flaws, but please keep the personal attacks and insults out--several posts have been removed. Thank you!

 

I bought my MBP because it looked good and had nice build quality. Don't give a damn about OS X ... It's nothing special really.

 

You're wasting your time really. Some people are just wrongly convinced that OS X is infinitely better than Windows.

It's best not to argue with these people because you will not change their minds. Like you, I didn't buy my Mac because of OS X ... Personally, I don't see the big deal about OS X at all ... But I won't go on else people will call me a troll.

I just find Windows 7 just as capable as OS X ... OS X is nice, but it's not nice enough to make me buy a $1,300 computer.

 

im not worried about depreciation per say but buying a 13 inch mac air is really dodgy on what kind of money you can get later for it. since it ships with 2 different ssd brands and 2 different screen brands. if you ended up with the toshiba drive instead of samsung people dont want that and they do ask about it. the same thing about the screen. the wrong screen can hurt you too. as far as i know when you mail order an mac air there is no way to tell what you will get except if you get a 256 gb hard drive. which im told all the 256 gb drives are samsung. the 128 gb drives can be either or.

so its a complete toss up in quality what you get and how well you will be able to sell later depending on what brand drive and screen you got. it sucks. people dont want to buy a machine with a toshiba hard drive benched at half the performance of samsung. even if it was closer then that, the general consensus is the toshiba drive sucks. so if you got that drive your stuck and good luck selling it because no one will want it..

 

Are you worried about a BMW's depreciation?

how about the dollar?

Is depreciation expected? Yes. Do I worry about things when I should not? No. Is sudden massive abnormal depreciation expected because of unique market forces? No. Market forces don't seem very unique. Competitors with sort of similar products offered at lower prices is nothing unusual.

 

If people are really worried about depreciation, they shouldn't buy an expensive laptop that holds value relatively well; they should buy the cheapest machine possible that meets their basic needs, and invest the difference in price in a stable or appreciating asset.

For example, let's compare what happens when you buy a $1600 MacBook Air 13 and a $600 Thinkpad Edge E420 (not remotely as sexy, but honestly, about as practical for day-to-day use), and you put the remaining $1000 into a diversified stock portfolio. Let's say after three years, the Edge loses 67% of its value, which I think is pretty reasonable when trying to resell a three-year-old inexpensive Windows machine. But even if your stock portfolio didn't make you a penny, the MacBook Air has got to depreciate less than 25% in order for it to be the better economic choice (i.e., result in a loss of less than $400).

Buy an Air because it's sleek and sexy. I don't quibble at all with people who do that. But don't EVER buy an expensive machine, though, thinking it's a smarter choice than a cheap option because the percentage rate of depreciation is much more favorable. If you're really all that caught up in depreciation, buy something cheap and invest the rest in an appreciating asset.

 

Actually my store specializes in trade ins. Believe it or not, we usually turn around the macs for much of the original cost. For example I sold a 4 year old MacBook for 50% of a new one... most PCs would be around 20% and a hard sell, but since its "Apple" people buy the brand not the machine.

 

Computers still shouldn't be looked at as a financial investment though. Selling a 4 year old MacBook for 50% of a modern price is really good but, unless you have some supercell multimillion dollar computer. They can be investments but just not sound financial ones. For example, the 13" MBP I have now was purchased as an investment for my education. It will be used to help me through my two year MS program. To me, that is a sound investment though it has nothing to do with financial appreciation or depreciation.

Most computers would be thought of as being financial disasters if we looked at them financially. Much like cars, they can lose their value rather quickly and most computers tend to be worth a lot more to the end-user than they are actually worth. For example, I can sell the nettop in my bedroom right now for $75 as that is about all its worth. I paid $250 for it (it actually had a $349 price tag but Newegg through it into their lightning deal one day) last year but the system is worth more than $75 to me as it accesses my iTunes library (via wi-fi) so I can listen and watch content in my bedroom, it can playback Hulu Plus in HD, and it even has a Blu-ray drive hooked up to it and acts as my Blu-ray player. I would have to spend more than $75 to find a device (whether it is a nettop or something else) just to obtain that level of functionality. So, even though it has already lost more than 50% of its value in less than a year, it is still hasn't lost its value to me (even though it takes a solid minute to boot Windows 7). Not a wise financial investment but an investment into my media (and TV watching experience since I pulled the plug in cable).