Any Gamers Regret Getting a Mac?

This isn't a "Is Mac good for gaming?" thread. I already know how the 8600M GT performs and how every 9 series card that could be in the new MBP performs. To start, I've just really wanted a MacBook Pro for the last year, for both its' design and OS X. I've also wanted to program for a while, and there isn't really any good software out there for people new to programming on Windows. There aren't even any programs that can help speed up the process of designing an application in the way that XCode does. Not to mention that the software community for developers is way better than any of the companies or developers that work on Windows software. Another huge bonus is how much better of an operating system OS X is to work in.

On Windows even if you want to start creating some games, there isn't much of an audience out there that will comment on it and review it. On a Mac, because of the lack of games support by third party developers and how much better OS X handles applications, a lot more people will want to try your application. Also, developing for the iPhone/iPod Touch with XCode is great for developers because of the App Store, which will get your games and apps known and played/tried, and can make you a few extra hundred or thousands a month.

Anyway, do any MacBook Pro owners that game with Bootcamp regret going with a Mac?

 

No regrets at all, my MBP has played everything I've thrown at it, and since purchasing I still don't have anything to gripe about.

 

Ya right...

Here are a few to get you started with Windows app development:

Visual Studio 2008 (express editions)
CodeGear RAD Studio 2007
Eclipse

XNA: http://creators.xna.com/
XNA Game Studio: http://creators.xna.com/en-us/3.0ctp_mainpage (Windows + Xbox 360 game development)
...and some additional tools: http://www.microsoft.com/express/gamedevelopment/

 

In regards to programming dunno.... However in terms of gaming on the MBP it works just fine. Im a gamer. Although I do have a xbox 360 for most games.

 

Thanks for the reply, but I've already tried all of those. I just get turned off in the middle of learning since no one really wants to play games created by new developers that aren't designing big name titles (that includes me...). One of the big things about Mac is the iPhone/iPod App Store. You can bring game styles that have been done a million times in a million different ways, and design it your own way with unique controls that will get played and get tens of thousands of hits in its' first few weeks.

 

I have to agree with swarmer. There are a huge number of excellent programming environments available for Windows. One major reason there's a lot more software for Windows than Mac is the fact that development tools are simply much better.

In addition to the ones swarmer mentioned, look up the other versions of Visual Studio, and remember there are many good options, like Visual C++, C#, and Visual Basic. Also see other implementations of C++ like Borland C++; Python and various kinds of BASIC (Liberty BASIC, maybe QuickBASIC for beginners). And there are good libraries like DirectX for graphics acceleration. Don't forget that free and open source tools like gcc have Windows ports.

 

Very true - and that's because there are so many other really great games out there. So competition is stiff. That's because it's a good platform, not a bad one.

You definitely have a point with the iPhone/iPod App Store. That's a totally different situation. It's a mobile device, completely different hardware (CPU, memory, graphics), completely different control and input schemes (touch display, no keyboard, no mouse). It's new territory and it doesn't compare to the desktop/laptop computer landscape.

I've submitted a game to the App Store. Still waiting for Apple's approval. Look it up after Apple approves it: it's called Brain Tuner.

I think the iPhone is a great platform for new programmers, especially hobbyist game developers. Get in touch and maybe we can work on something

 

Well, in terms of the simpler stuff -- "casual" games for portables -- I'm guessing you're right that the iPod/iPhone provides the best audience for that sort of stuff.

 

The iPhone can handle some impressive stuff. id Games' Founder, a company with games that have become the standard for graphics and benchmarks, said that the iPhone was as fast a PS2 and Xbox. Looking at its' specs, that statement is definitely true. He says that the only reason that we don't have games that look as good as the Xbox and PS2 is because the market isn't in the position (right now at least) for a company to spend millions of dollars to design and optimize a game for the iPhone like they would on consoles. Developers will have enough power to pretty much do what they want on the iPhone. I could really imagine any kind of game could work on the iPhone with the right controls (like FPS).

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2008/07/24/doom-iphone-morris-tech-personal-cx_cm_0725doom.html

 

I forgot to mention it in my last post, but... that's impressive. I've used a couple of the Windows application development tools I linked to... but certainly not all of them!

Assuming all this is true... then it's only a matter of time until the iPhone platform also becomes the sort of place where "no one really wants to play games created by new developers that aren't designing big name titles". But... that's not the case just yet... so I suppose right now the iPhone presents something of a window of opportunity for up-and-coming game developers.

 

Yes, Macs are definitely better for programming with. The are Unix based and that definitely helps a lot. That is one of the main reasons I am planning on changing as well.

 

So far, I would say the iPhone/Touch gaming market would be different from the Mac gaming market: similarly, the console market is different from the PC market. There's a lot of factors that aren't found in each other's markets; I would say that until there are enough exactly comparable games for the Mac out there, most people will continue gaming in Windows through Boot Camp.

The iPhone/iPod Touch market is very different. The Mac gaming market competes against the Windows gaming market. Both offer games operated by mouse and keyboard and occasionally joystick, with the only difference being the graphics quality depending on the graphics cards being offered on the Macs and of course, the OS platform the game is running on.

With the iPhone/Touch market, it doesn't have any direct competitor. The PSP is button-based, as is the DS but the DS is also 50-50 with touchscreen. The iPhone/Touch's gaming is based on touchscreen and accelerometer. So the market is unchallenged at the moment, which is why the iPhone/Touch market is booming.

 

Aren't we getting a bit off-topic here?

No, I don't regret for a second I got the Macbook Pro, and I game on it just fine...

 

Well yeah, I've used them all to make a few simple applications, nothing major, and definitely nothing that hasn't been done before by every developer out there. There's just no use for my apps in the PC market. They've all been done before, and nobody looks around for unique apps with hundreds of other thousands on any major application site. I just think that anything done on the PC is a waste of my time if no one, including me, doesn't really have a use for it.

I could try to make a huge game, but if I get less than fifty hits and three comments that just say "great game" on something that I spend hundreds of hours designing, it's just not worth it. You get so much more of a market. on a Mac with XCode. Plus widgets can be a fun thing to design every once in a while and Apple features them on their site. When you design games you want people to enjoy it and get hyped up for sequels. My writing for stories have always got me the top marks in any classes and a "wow" most of the time from the teacher. I wouldn't want to write a book (who reads books anyway these days?) and I probably couldn't get a movie deal unless I get interested in the business, so game design, which I've always enjoyed is a great way to get some kind of story out.

Now I just need to learn animating and designing in 3D and 2D, my 3D modeling skills suck, and it's hard to get your vision through to someone over the internet to design the graphics for a game.

Yeah, I'm just pissed off at the market for developers. Macs are really the only good choice if you're not part of a major software company.

 

^sorry,but i didnt get your last post

 

I was complaining that the PC market just isn't for new developers. My post was all over the place like that because as much as I want to develop programs and games, there's no point on the PC market. It's not even like a hobby that you physically create something. If you design an app that's already made by tons of developers, nobody is going to want it, and if you design a game, it's the same. It just isn't fun or worthwhile developing on the PC if you're not part of a major software company.

 

ok are you talking about gamers or developers lol? are you asking whether people find mac world of gaming interesting and dev/mod friendly or if it's not mainstream enough?? i thought this was simple gaming on MBP w/ 8600M using bootcamp thread? or is it mac gaming w/o using bootcamp? why would anyone regret getting a mac when they can simply use bootcamp. i like playing flash portal on a macbook @ the library

 

hmm,that depends on your imagination.

 

It's more of a do gamers regret getting a Mac for gaming for whatever reasons. I would only game through Bootcamp for any big titles, since Mac ports always suck. I'm pretty much asking if people that bought a Mac who are gamers regret it for any reason, like the 8600M GT not holding up the way that they want, having to switch OSs to game, etc.

 

go to youtube,search "gaming on macbook pro" and all your worries will gone that videos helped me a lot cos i m in the same boat

 

So there.

 

I hear ya man! I too am seriously looking into doing this. I agree developing for the iphone and ipod touch is really a great way to begin.

 

Would you mind posting your experience with the SDK and Apple's whole approval process? Apple hasn't been too great with a lot of developer's applications. I heard from one developer that has a simple app called "Where To?" that if they kept up the same sales year-round, that they could make $360,000 in a year (after Apple's share) with just that one app. For what its' worth, that means that if your app is really good, you could make a living about 4-5 times better than the average person off of just one app.

 

Yeah but you have to realize that it is still very hard to do, and you have to have a good amount of luck for the app to become popular especially if it costs a heavy penny. But yeah, I hear what you are saying, there is a lot of potential in this stuff. But you just made it sound so easy!

 

i do really hope apple announces theming for 2.0, i have a buncha 1.1.4 themes i designed that would sell heaps! ive made an alienware invader theme too

 

there is some decent potential around the ipodtouch/iphone. the best case scenario for a game developer is pretty good. but its not magic. xcode isn't the holy grail of development. apple does not pass every application, and there is a long waiting list, and you have to pay them $100 just to consider you. objective c 2.0 is VERY confusing and can be difficult to deal with. its a very wordy, picky coding language compared to even C++. developing applications for the mac means no app store, so for desktop apps you are back in the same position you were originally. its up to you to generate your own hype.

if you really want to make games, Valve has a great platform (called steam) that allows indie windows developers to see the light of day. just like the apple itunes store, there is a great potential for success there. it does not mean "free success here".

i just hope you haven't fallen for the hype SO MUCH that you expect free money. its not going to happen.

and as far as boot camp, you seem to already know the downsides. its about as annoying as you would expect it to be, having to switch the OS sometimes. in some ways, its actually more convenient, because for normal use i can have a virtual machine run. im a gamer but not a die hard gamer, and i don't find myself in windows very often.

----

xcode is good. iphone development is a solid idea. that said, just don't fall for the hype SO MUCH that you lose sight of reality.

if your goal is *really* just "i wanna make money" you should invest in about 8 years of advanced school for business, law, medicine. you will make a load of money when you are out, for the rest of your life.

if you just want to play around with xcode and apple development, do it.

if you really want to develop a game, try out the steam platform first.

 

As a gamer, I HATE playing on anything less than a 17" screen. I was very sure about my choice, and i knew that I didn't want my notebook to be good at gaming at all! Thats the primary reason why I bought a macbook 13" over a Dell XPS 1330

 

Yes I do. I thought the games that came out for the mac would all multiplay with the PC versions. It is a gripe I have and now know only a few of them do that. Thankfully I can dual boot.

 

most can...

age of empires, battlefield 2142, quake iv, doom 3, command and conquer 3, wc3, wow, any ea or blizzard games... even Halo

the only game im thinking of that can't is rainbow six 3: ravenshield

 

Ars Technica did an interesting series on programming differences between OS X and Windows. It's kind of one person's experience, but the writer just felt that OS X's APIs are just much cleaner and consistent than what is available in Windows. Some of the issues brought up include how .NET isn't the clean break from Win32 that it was supposed to be, how there isn't a consistent GUI experience, and how Win64 still has a lot of strange holdovers from Win32 that don't need to be there. In the case of GUI, Office 2007 has it's own Ribbon implementation, MS then provided a Ribbon implementation for third-parties that's only available in C++ and not .NET, and then Windows 7 will have yet another Ribbon implementation. Now its not necessary for all applications to look the same, but for those that want to use Ribbon, you'd think all there would be "the Ribbon design" instead of 3.

Anyways, I found it an interesting read.

http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/what-microsoft-could-learn-from-apple.ars/
http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/microsoft-learn-from-apple-II.ars/
http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/microsoft-learn-from-apple-III.ars/

 

It's not only about the money. Any application is getting a great amount of hits, it's more about getting your application known and all the work you do is worth something. One interesting thing to add is that Mac developers with good apps get a lot more news coverage by tech sites like Gizmodo, CNet, Ars Technica, Mac Rumors, and a lot more, and apps for Mac are usually better to use because it takes a lot of extra work to get a decent UI on Windows. I've just seen a lot more interesting apps on Mac with a huge developer community. If you're a Windows developer, the community is really just to help you get code done, on Mac people use a lot more applications.

Don't get me wrong, if I make a great application, I won't mind a few thousand a week . I have a few applications in mind that could blow away a lot of others, if I can do it right and handle press coverage and hype.

 

I got a MBP for school... ok I lied, I mainly got it for games, but I needed OS X for school Anyway, it's great. I don't regret it at all. I boot into windows and there is no difference between using this thing for games or a Windows pc.

 

i dont want to stop you at all, but i do think you are a little bit ahead of yourself.

still, its worth a shot. worst comes to worst you are out $500 for the apple laptop (over a comparably equipped windows laptop) and $100 for the apple developer fee. and you can have a good learning experience in return with xcode and objective c 2.0

hey, i mean, im doing the exact same thing, so i obviously don't think its a waste of money myself. just keep your head on straight and you will be fine.

 

Isn't the SDK free? Isn't the $100 only so Apple considers your apps and you get new firmware releases early? I don't mind spending extra money over a Windows computer, I've wanted OS X for a while and I really like Apple's design. Plus, the screen on the MBP is the best screen I've ever seen on a laptop by far, that's worth some extra money to me.

 

the sdk ships with leopard (and of course a new macbook pro).

if you want to see your apps in the store (or even be given the chance to get them in the store) you need to pay apple $100.

thats the only way to distribute apps, really. other method involves jail breaking the ipod, which obviously restricts your market pretty sharply.

 

OP, im in the same situation. My conclusion is to get a macbook/air/pro and a 360 for all your games. Im selling my pc game collection. The macbooks can all play WoW and CSS, so in my eyes for pc gaming, thats all i need to the next great MMO comes out, as well as CSS 2.

 

As far as gaming via Bootcamp is concerned, it's really good (Especially after a gpu software update). My only complaint is how bad the audio driver is. On some more demanding games like Unreal Tournament 3, the audio sometimes struggles to keep up and gets choppy.

Once there is a fix for this my MBP is complete!

 

macbook /mba is going to struggle with both wow and css...

 

^no,it wont

 

it can run them decently...

afaik it averages 30fps in css at regardless of settings... with the proper driver.

that a struggle to me.

 

Can you play modern games on a macbook pro at good settings??

 

I regret games not being available on a Mac, but not getting the mac in the first place . This is made all the worse because the games I tend to play are not really popular mainstream games (i.e. there will never be a Mac version available..ever).

Unfortunately, my laziness is such that I've started just using Windows more often than OSX to avoid going back and forth.

My only real disappointment about my Mac is that there's no decent media player for OSX. The only semi-decent ones are perian+qt and custom builds of mplayer, and both are rather lacking in certain respects. (VLC is passable if all you want to do is watch non-subtitled stuff I guess). Also video performance is much worse than on the Windows side with these players and codecs. There are blu-ray rips I can watch perfectly on Windows with coreavc or even ffdshow that actually make my computer lag on the OSX side.

 

Of course. It has a DDR3 8600m GT.

 

of course not, lol. it can however play them at LOW if anything. its really not intended for gaming.

 

Its the average of any 15.4-inch notebook in the MBP range (ex. XPS M1530), its not excellent but it does its job.

 

You just made me facepalm.

 

Heh, the 8600 GT is an old platform now. It's not going to be able to play newer games at higher settings...even right now it can't play really intensive games at high high settings, namely CoD4, Crysis, etc, etc, etc.

 

I play CoD4 at high settings (along with every other game I've played on my PC (DMC4, Bioshock, TF2, Gears of War, etc etc)). It plays Crysis at medium. He said "good" settings on modern games. I have yet to set anything to "low" on a modern game, besides AA of course. Saying that you need to set things to low, and even then they may not work is just stupidity. Plain and simple.

 

that card could not even play rainbow six vegas 1 on low settings for me. also the mac version of doom 3 was NOT playable in low. this is my real world test with the 128mb version of the card, i dont care what private sites or forums say. either you have the card and your just desprate to defend it , or your a crazed fanboy. sure some of the non demanding games will run , to the naked eye , "good". *plays crysis on high* good day sir. oh and im pretty sure im only talking about the MBP version which i think is downclocked or somthing. oh and i know of 5 year old computers that can play cod4 on "high"

 

The ATi card was downclocked. Also I'm talking about the 256mb version of it. And I am playing in Windows *not* OSX. The current lines lowest model comes with the 256mb one, which plays all games mentioned at 30+ FPS on high settings (minus crysis). I'm not a crazed fanboy, it just bugs me when people post something that contradicts everything I have experienced on something I myself own. I don't know wtf was wrong with the one you were using, maybe the 128mb card is just really bad, idk.