17" ftw

My personal laptop is a new Penryn 15" 2.4GHz 3MB cache, 8600GT 256MB. Obviously, it's a fine laptop. I did not get the 17" because it was going to be over $1000 more, I was worried that it would be too big on a day-to-day basis, and the depreciation on the 17" seems a lot worse than the 15". I CRAVE a 1680x1050 screen on the 15" but Apple refuses to indulge me in this matter.

That's my personal laptop. Work is another story. They did right and hooked a brother up with a new 17" with the 1920x1200 LED screen, and after using it for a few days, here are my thoughts:

1. This might be the best laptop in the world. Period. Spec this and spec that and I'm sure someone has crammed a quad core into a laptop, whatever. As a total package, this thing is really really nice.

2. The 1920x1200 screen is pure joy on every level. Bright. Even. I can feel my productivity skyrocketing for some reason. It's just a fantastic space to do real work.

3. The thing about the 3MB v. 6MB cache, and why Apple peeves me sometimes. The Macbook is a pretty strong competitor to the MacBook Pro in pure CPU terms. That's why the 2.5 and 2.6 chips should be STANDARD on the Pro model. My personal laptop has the 3MB cache, and it works ok. I think I can really feel it not helping out as much as it could especially when running Vista in vmWare Fusion. I also open and use a lot of apps simultaneously.

Say what you will, I think, the 6MB does something to make the overall performance, (oh gawd, I'm gonna get flamed for this one... ), does something to make the overall performance somewhat... snappier!

4. Of course, the third USB port, I mean, wow. Pure ***.

Overall, I'm fine with everything. Personally, unless you are going to keep the laptop a long time (I tend to sell mine after about 18 months) the 17" does seem to lose more relative value on resale, and it is a lot cheaper on top of that. So, the 15" still makes sense for me personally, but...

Damn, I'm glad work hooked me up with this 17". It's replacing a Pentium 4 dual Dell desktop... lolz.

 

I've owned 17" laptops in the past (with the 1920x1200 display of course), and I couldn't disagree more. Each to his own, and I of course did not have this specific laptop in front of me to judge, but unless you have two laptops, one for bringing around 99% of the time and the other as a desktop replacement that OCCASIONALLY gets moved, I will never buy a 17" laptop again. 13.3" FTW.

 

It's bigger than the 15" but it's not that much bigger. I'm not a student, so, I don't move it a lot. I take it to work, walk around the office with it, take it home.

For me, I could never live with a 1280x800 screen, so, the 15" is the bare minimum, and since Apple insists on spiting me by withholding a 1680x1050 screen, 1440x900 is not really all that much better.

 

I found I prefer 1440x900 @ 15.4", having owned 1280x800, 1440x900 and 1680x1050 all at 15.4", though it's not about the resolution - I do love large resolutions. It's that I can't stand the weight of the 17" systems. Which is why I've recently sold off my last 15.4" system and now am on an XPS M1330 and a desktop.

 

Meh.

No blu-ray. No HDMI output. Soft metal case that dents and scratches if you look at it funny. Upgrading the HDD voids the warranty. No accidental damage coverage possible. Mid-range GPU for the size and resolution. HOT HOT HOT.

Theres definitely better out there

 

I've had good luck with my previous MBP cases.

There are definitely better specs out there, I conceded that, and it does lack in areas where they should just be determined to be on the fore.

HDMI is a good example. It's clearly been the future for a while now, Apple, especially after declaring it the year of the laptop, like 50 years ago, should have made a corp decision to be in front on things like HDMI. Just as they were with n wireless, backlit keyboard, web cam, and bluetooth. Blu-Ray should def be an option by now across the board.

Yeah, the HD swap is dumb, and Applecare is pricey (part of why I sell my personal laptop every 18months or so... about 6 months after the warranty expires).

Regardless, my Chi can't be stomped. My work machine just went from a Dell desktop to a 17" MBP.

 

I own a 17" MBP. The casing hasn't given me much trouble, but yeah the HDD thing is kind of dumb, when I was looking on eBay I had to keep the hard drive size and speed as a factor since I couldn't just yank it out and replace it. I ended up having to sacrifice a glossy screen to get a MBP for a good price with a 7200rpm drive.

It's a good laptop. Not the most cost efficient, and yeah the 8600GT is no speed demon, but it runs OS X as well as it needs to. I don't think they could get much faster of a GPU in the form factor or with anywhere near the quietness. My Sager 5793 has an 8800M GTX and it certainly requires some heavy fan action to cool it.

 

nope its still the best, the operating system voids all that superfluous stuff out, as well as the size and weight, if you want all that other stuff, you get more size, and more weight, no thank you. Even HDD replacement, want to be able to replace it? prepare to sacrifice size and weight, it is hard to fit things in that small of a package.

you are absolutely right count_smellula, I will stand by your side and argue this for days.

if the freaking WANKS that run this site would put up my 17" MBP review more people would be aware of this! ^_^ seriously though, I have no bloody clue why my review was never posted, I may just have to post it myself unofficially. it has excellent photos, and even a little animation!

 

Maybe I've just never had a "desktop replacement" before.

It's spacious in ways a 15" isn't, and while I buy fast 15" laptops, something about them still makes you feel like you are on a laptop. On this thing, I don't really notice the laptop aspect as much.

I'm sure there are beasty PC laptops out there with quad cores or 9xxx SLI video or whatever, I remember seeing some of the first gen 17" multimedia laptops from HP, all 10 pounds of them. The MBP is thin, light, not too hot and no fan noise. So, like I said, it's a top package.

Personally, the 15" is still a good choice (Apple! Knock it off! Put a 1680x1050 screen in the 15" wtf!) but for an "actual work" computer, this thing is the awesome.

 

I love my 17" MBP

 

Heh, don't make me laugh.

IF OS X was more stable than Vista, it's still offset by other things. Sure, OS X looks nicer than Vista and it is easier to install software. Sure OS X ships with a nice software suite.

But, as I've said before, how many people actually use the iLife apps outside of iPhoto? Exactly. Theres plenty of freeware that does exactly what they do on Windows. Same goes for iPhoto.

OS X itself? Well, I've seen as many Macs crash just as often as I've seen Windows PCs crash. My own personal experience has had OS X crashing more than Windows has in the entire time I've used OS X. Windows on my Mac even ran better than OS X does. XP and Vista on my Mac were rock solid, 100% stable. Where OS X would crash, Windows would continue on.

Theres other things to think about too. Games perhaps?

My personal favorite too, VIDEO PLAYBACK. OS X DOES NOT take advantage of GPU features for video playback. As a result, CPU use is unnecessarily high while playing all forms of video. Everything from DVDs to HD content eat far more CPU time than they should, causing both battery life to be shorter than it should be and the system to run unnecessarily hot.

Also, another result would be the fact that video played in OS X doesn't look anywhere near as good as it does in Windows Vista or even XP. My little $900 HP can play blu-ray discs and any HD video you throw at it without even spinning the fan up. Yet the $2800 17" MacBook Pro can't play blu-ray without installing Windows and other software to bypass the DRM thanks to the lack of hardware DRM support.

So let's see for a second. OS X you get an OS that has just as many (though different) problems as Windows. You get iLife with only one truly useful app (which is no better than Picassa or Windows Photo Gallery in Vista). You don't get hardware support for video playback. You don't get advanced power saving features for video playback. You don't get games without installing Windows.

I'm typing this on my MacBook right now. But the more I talk and the more I think about it, I can't figure out why someone would choose a MacBook or Pro over a PC.

Oh please, don't give me that. The average 17" "PC" weighs 7lbs. The MacBook Pro 17" is what? 6.4? Size? Again, "oh please". A 17" PC is roughly 1.5" thick. Most are wedge shape so they're 1" in the front and 1.5" in the back.

But guess what? You get a proper cooling system! I can use my HP on my lap on a hot day and not get so hot that my legs start to get really uncomfortable. My MacBook or a MacBook Pro? The bottom heats up to around 40c easy (as demonstrated here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv38uGj0PhY )

Again, you get a proper cooling system and very little more size and weight.

You also don't get a case thats going to dent and scratch by looking at it.

A 17" "PC" will give you a much better price, a better value for the GPU, dual HDDs (500GB standard height 2.5" drives anyone?), high definition video playback (legally), HDMI outputs, etc.

The only thing the MacBook Pro will give you is a legitimate excuse to not have children because the heat made you sterile.

Again, let's look at the facts. A 17" MBP will get you a fast processor that runs ridiculously hot because of the poorly designed cooling system, a DVD drive you cannot upgrade or replace, a HDD you cannot upgrade or replace, but decent battery life.

A 17" PC for about $1,000 less will get you the same GPU (or dual GPUs if you go for certain brands), 1GB more RAM, bigger HDD (dual HDDs more often than not), same CPU, blu-ray, HDMI outputs, full size Express Card, memory card reader, etc.

Is there really even a reason to buy a MBP?

 

@SauronMOS:

I don't remember, but are you the guy who tried to empty the trash and OS X crashed?

 

"not too hot"

That is quite an understatement. My Macbook Pro burns my dong off using this thing on my lap.

 

heh now you know how I feel about my 2.6Ghz 17" hi res mbp!! Its absolutely gorgeous and THE best notebook I've ever owned!

I agree.. I've been through all the 15" penryn mbp and the 17" hi res model, the 512mb vram does help alot than what people will think especially driving external monitors and the 17" mbp for some reason seems to move alot faster and more fluidly.. I honestly think its due to the bigger logic board/motherboard that can clock up higher because of the bigger and more efficient heatsink.

Also its so damn cool on your lap especially the top part of the mbp is very cool to touch as well.

Not to mention the awesome speakers!

 

Haha yes. I had some random pictures my friend sent me (stupid FAIL type pictures and things like that). As soon as I clicked "Empty Trash" the system locked.

It also happened when I went to click Burn in a Burn Folder. System locked. ugh!

 

Heh, guess you didn't see the video I posted above. I don't know about you, but most people wouldn't consider a computer case that gets above 40c "cool".

 

Hehe, then I remembered right!

Dude, it's not your fault you got the lemon, but to be honest, just take a look down Alienware forums lane. You'll see overheating like crazy. chassis broken from the head, screen bleeding, lights bleeding, screenhinge cracking etc..

Now I figured something's must have gone VERY wrong with your system, but that's no reason to start bashing everybody you see considering a Mac.

In my entire life, I have never even heard of OS X crashing when you empty the trash. Something is clearly wrong there. And I think you're the only one who got that to happen

Anyways, the Macbook Pro's cooling system is like no other, because, even though the case gets warm and hot, it acts like a heat sink and the components inside are cool.

Why do you think there are no vents what-so-ever?

They thought about it when they did the cooling system.

I play Crysis and GRiD and all that kind of crap and it gets hot, yes, but not like "OMGH Thiz computr R so hot I'm nevr GONNA BUY"

 

Really?? I dont know the top part of my mbp barey gets even warm 90% of the time. Doing intensive stuff like taxing the cpu at 90-95% rendering some h264 or mkv 1080p stuff will get the top casing warm but nothing even close to unbearable.

The bottom does get pretty warm but nothing unbearable there as well for my lap to get burned. Plus I use an ilap with all my laptops so the bottom of the laptop is not an issue but sometimes I undock the mbp and use it on my lap and stays so cool.

I've been through 3 17" hi res mbp and my first one I do remember it being much hotter (I dont know what it was) and the top part of the 17" mbp even without doing anything intensive, with only surfing the net would get very warm where my palms would sweat. But the last 17" hi res mbp and current one even when touching the bar above the keyboard where under the "macbook pro" sign is just warm and I can keep my fingers on there for hours if I wanted to without any discomfort.

I remember the 15" merom 2.4Ghz mbp from last year though it got freaking hot where my palms would sweat all the time and the left palm rest got freaking hot especially the left speaker grill.

But the 15" penryn mbp and the 17" hi res mbp runs damn cool, where I dont even need to use my ilap, where all the previous powerbook-macbook pro's the ilap was a must.

But the 17" mbp whether it was the 2.5Ghz or the 2.6Ghz ran much faster and osx seemed much more fluid as well. I think I read somewhere on toms hardware or barefeats that the 17" mbp have a bigger logicboard and a much bigger and more efficient heatsink which allows the machine to clock up much higher (not only gpu) to run faster.

And I have witnessed this first hand. In 2 months I've been through and exchanged from a mba, another mba, 15" 2.4Ghz mbp, then 15" 2.5Ghz mbp, then 17" 2.5Ghz mbp (ordered it from macmall.com) sold it on craigslist, then went to the apple store to buy the 15" 2.5Ghz mbp again, then exchanged it back to the 17" 2.6ghz mbp, then went actually down to the 13" macbook, then exchanged it back to the 2.4Ghz mbp, then exchanged it back to the 17" 2.6Ghz hi res mbp.. whew~

I found little faults in all those exchanges (yes I'm very anal about it) and havnt gotten charged even 1 restocking fee (but did exchange all of those in 2 different apple stores).

The 15" mbp all exhibits this electric/hiss/static noise from the left side of the magsafe/speaker that was freaking annoying. In the end I noticed all the mbp out on the demo at the apple store had this issue and all the 15" mbp that I've been through has this as well.

Finally when 10.5.3 was out, I thought it would fix this issue on the 15" but nope still there. For those who dont know the issue is that whenever a sound is played on the 15" mbp's speaker, there is some kind of weird electrical/hiss/static noise coming from the left speaker but once the magsafe is disconnected the noise is gone instantly but plugged back in its back.

Anyways I'm sure it has to do with the hardware itself so I've been through that many exchanges and finally decided to go with a macbook instead... but the macbook had gpu issues where the whole colors would blotch sometimes and freezes and had external speakers audio popping issue which whenever a sound played scared the bejesus out of me.

Then I got my refund and bought a 17" hi res mbp 2.5Ghz model from macmall.com had it for a few weeks couldnt take the dead/stuck pixel on it right smack in the bottom middle of the screen, sold it on ebay (told the seller about the stuck pixel but he didnt seem to care) and lost $250 on it, went right back to the apple store and bought the 2.4Ghz mbp again and so on and the left speaker issue still exists couldnt take it and now on the 2.6Ghz 17" hi res mbp.

The 17" mbp doesnt exhibit the left speaker static/hiss/distortion/electric noise like the 15" does, also connecting it via headphone jack or optical to my b&w speaker setup no longer makes the loud hiss noise as well.

I'm sticking with this 17" as it is perfect and I knew the 15" mbps left speaker noise and hissing via headphone jack is a hardware issue.. and history repeats itself once again.. even since the good ol powerbook days that the 15" always exhibit some kind of hardware issue which was just known to be once you bought it but the 17" always has no issues.

For example were the horizontal line issues on the 15" powerbooks, the 2nd ram slot failing issue, and others I cant really think of right now.

 

everything you mentioned is either not at all true, "17" laptops 7lbs my ass", or is just incredibly nitpicky, not to mention has nothing to do with what I said about the machine, I never said anything about the OS being more stable, or anything that you mentioned, I just said what you quoted, you tacked all the rest of that crap onto my statement.

bottom line is, you CAN'T get a similar machine bottom line, sure some 17" computers out there have different options available not available on the MBP, yeah no kidding? Who would have thought? What I am saying is that there simply is no comparable Package to what Apple is offering in this MBP, plain in simple, no annoying specifics, no whining. If you disagree, I am totally fine with that, but please stop quoting my posts ^_^

 

and most people don't take what they see on YouTube as absolute truth either.

 

I'm always on the mac forums (many different ones at that) and not yet once I've heard of this empty trash lock or problem. I think people are just making up alot of BS.

Every OS crashes, there is no such thing as a 100% perfect OS. Linux crashes, OSX crashes, windows crashes.

But the real question is how frequently and which OS is more stable? And the answer is osx/linux.

I've been a 20+ year windows user since the good ol dos days. I know how to maintain windows so that I wont almost ever get any viruses (kind of hard since I do alot of d/ling movies, music etc..) but with osx at least you can d/l pretty much whatever you want and wont ever get a virus.

I've used osx for the past 4 years now and seen 2 kernal panics (I guess equivalent to the blue screen of death on the windows side), but at least you can just reboot and osx will be fine but I remember on the windows side you end up rebooting and it will ask to load in safe mode or not or sometimes you will miss a .dll file and you need to reinstall windows.

I've used pc's for 20 years and seen some sort of problems almost every once a month. And not to mention reinstalling windows every so often, with problems regarding to some sort of viruses, crashes, missing little .exe,.dll files or some other small files.

Other annoyances and the big one is defragmenting to make your os snappy.. and on vista you can set it to a time to run it but sometimes I stay up late to use the laptop still around 5am.. And another annoyance is the add/remove where you remove a small program and sometimes you need to restart just for that and the program is still there in the add/remove section!! Or leaves behind some small files or folders which overtime adds up and takes up unnecessary space.

what I love about osx is that everything you need is built right into osx, especially love the dictionary function on safari (where you can just put your cursor over the word you want to define and press and hold control + command and press the "d" key) and dictionary built in the os under applications. Also iphoto works like a charm with all of my digital camera and for editing photos with the quickness, itunes for all music, photobooth, ichat (love love ichat), mail.

Dont get me wrong, I still use windows to play games and to run small apps like bearshare to d/l music under parallels and to play party poker but that's about it..

On story to tell is that my cousin fixed a computer that was so laggy on his best friend's pc laptop. He digged deep and found out that someone was using his friend's laptop's computer and ip address to traffic kiddy porn for the past 2 years.. He found out that it happened instantly when he clicked on a banner for advertising a game online to play (no it wasnt porno advertisement which was a surprise) and it was just any old banner too, now that is ****ed up and he switched to a mac ever since and no problems.

remember real hackers use macs!

 

The MBP 17" LED 1920x1200 screen is straight bomb.

 

agreed, I am definitely jealous of the LED backlight, but the overall brightness difference isn't huge, it is mainly just the fact that it is instantly at full brightness, no warming up for a few minutes.

 

I think its not more of the brightness difference from led to ccfl, its actually the clarity of the picture of how vivid it displays it as well. The ccfl backlit laptop the pictures and words or whatever is displayed looks murky while the led looks clean.

Also not to mention no dimness overtime.

 

Well, as I said in another post, Alienware and Apple sell their systems based on different things. Alienware pushes theirs based on specs and speed. Apple tries to use that argument as well as quality.

When in reality, Apple doesn't deliver on either front.

I didn't get a lemon either. Hardware wise, my Mac is great. When I had Windows on it (XP and Vista) it was rock solid. Nothing could make it become unstable. But thats not entirely the case with OS X. Based on what I've read outside of the Apple fan circles, my experience with OS X is pretty consistent with the average OS X users experience.

Again, theres nothing wrong with my hardware. It's just in OS X regardless of my software configuration. Fresh installs, whatever. Windows ran rock solid. OS X does not.

I don't bash anything either. I simply point out the fact that OS X isn't as stable as Apple claims it is and that OS X lacks many fundamental features that Windows has had for the better portion of the decade. Even Windows 98 had hardware video acceleration to an extent. Why can't OS X?

Haha well, not to be a jerk, but you should read the Apple support forums

Actually, thats not true at all. There are vents. Look by the monitor hinge. The MacBook Pro case does not act like a heat sink at all. The case itself is getting extremely hot because the internal components are roasting. If you compare the internal temps of the components to those of a PC with a proper cooling system, you'll notice a very drastic difference (the PC being much cooler).

As I said before, the case on my MacBook can easily get up to 100F or higher on a warm day just by browsing the web and going to sites with Flash ads. My HP won't even get warm to the touch after hours of playing games because of the proper cooling solution and numerous vents (as well as the slightly more raised case).

Get iStat Pro and monitor your component temps and then google for similarly spec'ed PCs.

Nitpicky? rofl. Whatever man. It is NOT nitpicky to complain about the fact that you cannot upgrade/replace either the HDD or optical drive. It is not nitpicky to complain that OS X cannot do things that have been basic functions in Windows for years now, like HD disc playback.

What happens if someone doesn't have AppleCare and their optical drive dies out of warranty? Oh thats a $250 or so replacement. PC? $50. HDD dies? Again, hundreds for labor unless you rip the system apart yourself. PC? About 4 screws and two plastic covers.

And, again, look at other things. Leopard is supposed to be "The world's most advanced operating system". Yet it can't handle external displays properly, like Windows has been doing since Windows 95 (oh and Windows 95 had pre-emptive multi-tasking 6 years before Mac OS did). It can't properly handle digital audio output. It has absolutely no hardware video acceleration. The OpenGL support is flakey at best, causing the few games that do run under OS X to run worse than they do under Windows on the very same hardware.

Let's go back to video again for a second. If I want to watch HD video on my Mac, I have to worry about heat because even if 1 core ramps up to 50% use, the fans kick in at full speed and my CPU temp goes up to ~155F, which causes my case temp to go up to around ~100F. On a Windows PC, a dedicated GPU can decode ~50Mbps H.264 from blu-ray in a reduce power state and the CPU can hang out in a reduced power state too, seeing as how all it has to do is separate the audio from the video and send the video off to the GPU and possibly decode the audio.

Also, how is it "nitpicky" to complain about HDDs? The average 17" PC has dual HDDs. Why don't Macs? Don't give me this "size of the computer" nonsense. The MacBook is only 1.08" thick while the MBP is 1" thick, yet the MacBook has a user replaceable drive in it. HDDs can and do die, especially notebook drives. Its inexcusable that a computer that costs $2799 before taxes does not have a user replaceable drive.

And, let's go back to video. How is it "nitpicky" to complain about the lack of HDMI? Many people use their PCs for media playback. Everything from DVDs to recorded TV to blu-ray discs. HDMI output is a standard spec of the Santa Rosa chipset and modern dedicated GPUs. With any Mac, you need at least one video adapter and an audio cable. With a PC you connect the HDMI cable and you get your digital audio plus digital video on one connection. Plus Windows will properly disable the built-in monitor (unlike OS X!) and it will properly detect the external display resolution. Or you can use the GPU drivers to set a custom resolution. No 3rd party hacking utilities needed.

One last thing. Before you go putting your foot in your mouth and saying "17" laptops 7lbs my ass" you should actually check out the specs of 17" notebooks.

You specifically said "nope its still the best, the operating system voids all that superfluous stuff out " after I had mentioned all of that stuff previously. Don't try to change your argument and words now because you're on the losing side.

Stop quoting your posts because you don't want me to point out that you're wrong?

No specs? Why not? Because, again, you don't want people to point out that Apple's hardware is not worth the money? You don't want me to point out that $2800 with Apple only gets you 2GB of RAM and a lowly GeForce 8600M GT while $1999 at Gateway gets you 4GB of RAM, 2 HDDs configured in RAID 0, and a GeForce 8800M GTX? Or that $1399 at Gateway gets you that same 17" system with 1 HDD, GeForce 8800M GTS and a 2GHz Core 2 Duo? Oh and 3GB of RAM.

You're right, there is no comparable package to what Apple is offering. Every other manufacturer actually gives you what you pay for. If you pay $2800 with Dell you're going to get a 17" system that is in line with desktop PCs costing the same.

A MacBook Pro (or MacBook) does not give you what you pay for when it comes to hardware. You don't get full size ExpressCard (which prevents you from using all but a very small number of ExpressCard devices). You don't get a memory card reader. You don't get a GPU thats even half as fast as those in PCs in the same price range. You don't get as much RAM or HDD space. You don't get the same connectivity options, gaming options, or video playback options.

Not only that, but you still have to purchase a second operating system and set that up to take full advantage of your hardware.

You know, its incredibly ironic that Apple runs commercials about PCs being all work and no play while Macs are good for work and play. Video playback and OS X don't go together well at all because of the lack of hardware support (and hardware in most of their systems sold), you can't play games for those very same reasons.. I really don't think people's idea of fun is organizing their pictures endlessly or making 10,000 slideshows in iPhoto and then seeing how they can edit them all together in iMovie while importing their music from Garageband that they composed by dragging and dropping a bunch of Apple Loops that "sounded cool".

So somehow a thermal image was faked? Despite the fact that the video basically shows what thousands of people online have confirmed? That the MacBook and MacBook Pro are far too hot?

You know, another ironic thing about Apple.. Steve Jobs mentioned how ultra-portable notebooks have ULV processors because their "thermal envelope" didn't support higher speed CPUs. Yet any regular reader of macrumors or Apple's support forums know that the MBA can't take standard tasks without heating up too much and shutting down a core.

http://www.google.com/search?q=os+x...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a 36,400 results

Do you have proof of that? I've seen Macs of all varieties crash just as often as I've seen Windows PCs crash. And my own Macs have had OS X crash while Windows on the same system was rock solid. My HP hasn't crashed once in the 6 months I've owned it while OS X crashed not even two weeks ago.

Yeah, it's called not going to shady websites or opening non-standard file type attachments in email.

Good job admitting to illegal activities on a public forum. We're all happy you can pirate to your hearts content and not get a virus on OS X.

The BSOD is the result of bad hardware or bad drivers. Kernel panics can be caused by all sorts of things and, more often than not, require the lengthy process of repairing disk permissions.

I haven't seen a BSOD caused by drivers since the launch of XP when I tried to install a parallel port scanner and the drivers were not compatible.

Since then I saw a BSOD when the motherboard in a computer was failing. You know, an actual hardware issue. Not the software just locking up or going crazy for no seemingly good reason.

Well, you've already admitted to pirating. SO its safe to assume that all of your pirated materials were affecting your OS installation. Would be no different on OS X.

Defragging is no more annoying than having to run Onyx or repair disk permissions in OS X. Plus defragging only takes about 30 minutes the first time and a few minutes each time after that.

Much the same way uninstalling software in OS X leaves behind file and folder fragments that you have to hunt down even if you've used something like AppZapper or AppDelete. You also have to worry about what changes software made to configuration files and such, the same way software makes changes to the registry in Windows.

You see while OS X and Windows are different under the hood, the same problems plague both. Oh and before you say "OS X doesn't have viruses!" Well, Vista's UAC (which only happens as often as you'd see a password prompt in OS X) catches all types of software (viruses, spyware, rootkits) that try to modify the system. It's already been proven.

Except good video playback, the ability to play games, good burning software, etc.

Meh, I haven't used the dictionary once since I've had OS X.

Sounds like Picassa, or Photosmart Express, or Windows Photo Gallery (built-in to Vista, yeah I know its an iPhoto rip-off but it does all the same things, minus events).

Windows Media Player 11, Media Center.

Most systems ship with something like Cyberlink Youcam. If you buy a 3rd party webcam because your system does not have one, it'll come with similar software.

The Windows clients for MSN, Yahoo, AIM, and Google are better.

Mail is okay. I'll give you that. But its no better than Windows Mail.

As far as your friend's story goes, it sounds to me like that particular friend should have run Windows Update (the same way Mac users need to run Software Update). The ability to install software without the users knowledge was stopped about half a decade ago for XP.

CCFLs take a long time to dim. Even if it is rated for 30,000 hours of life, which really means 30,000 hours to 50% brightness. You'd still have to use the system for 8 hours a day for over 5 years to even see a 25% brightness drop.

Apple's own website clearly stated that there was no image quality difference between LED and CCFL, so people need to quit with those whole "LED LOOKS SO MUCH BETTER OMG!" because it really doesn't. The only true benefits are the longer life and instant on. The longer life is a wash too, because the vast majority of CCFLs will be at mostly full brightness for the entire useful life of the display/PC.

 

^^^anyone else need more proof of how terrible the 17" MBP is? haha, did anyone actually read all of that?

it is pretty much the unabridged version of every post this chap has made on these forums.\

he is obviously right, the internet has proven it ^_^ who cares if he has never even looked at or used the machine in question right!?

not nit picky at all.

 

@ SauronMOS.

sorry,but ur last post really sucks!

 

Care to prove that I never used a 17" MBP?

How about getting other people outside of the Apple fan circles to agree that its not "nitpicky" to complain about missing standard features, like full size ExpressCard, HDMI, hardware video acceleration, user serviceable HDDs and optical drives? Or the heat? Or the fact that the cases bend, warp, scratch, and dent way too easily? Or the fact that you need 2 OSes to fully utilize your hardware?

Oh, just an FYI. It's a lot better to admit you're wrong and bow out gracefully than to resort to the usual internet troll "omg did anyone read that? lol" remarks after you've been proven wrong.

 

Your

Care to elaborate?

 

Real hackers would usually use something like BackTrack, thta has easy access to tools for things such as network penetration. Macs can't do that without external wifi dongles at the moment.

Fixed it for you.

Seriously, getting through to these people is like trying to break a window with a paper aeroplane.

 

not really apple is about innovation while alienware is about gaming rigs.

oh man not one of those windows or blah blah did it first.. if you really want to go at that you do know mac was first especially using a mouse before the windows 3.1 was out right??

wow something must be really wrong with your mac.. I watch 1080p bluray ripped movies on my 17" and it barely gets warm. Even encoding/rendering 1080p movies for hours just gets barely warm. I'm sure pc/mac same hardware of the penryn are benefitting this.

I replaced all my mbp hdd just fine and it only took 10 minutes. I dont want dual hdd's as that would suck alot of battery power as well as too much moving parts.

It is nitpicky as it is just a laptop not a full hdtv entertainment system, no need for hdmi as I already have that on my sony bravia and my ps3, popcorn hour, hd dvr, xbox 360 etc etc..


Stop quoting your posts because you don't want me to point out that you're wrong?

well the real question is that does it have osx? No, does it have an led backlighting? Does it have a backlit keyboard? Is it light as the 17" mbp? No Does it work seamlessly like the mbp? No, I guess if your a gamer or something then that 8800m gts is good enough and that useless 3gb of ram which windows cant even address properly for certain apps. Thats the one thing I dont like about windows, they address ram improperly especially say if you have 2 apps running the app that doesnt need the additional ram will get more than the more intensive program.

lol, who needs a memory card reader now a days when everything is just plugged in via usb. Well I have 4gb of ram that's plenty on the mobile side + 200gb of hdd space is plenty or you could swap it out for the 500gb. But either way I have my 4TB external drives via fw800. This is also what I dont like about pc's they dont have firewire cabling to transfer massive amounts of files. For example, I used my brothers dell to transfer the 97gb I needed via usb 2.0.. took 1 hour and 15 minutes and same exact files at the same size via fw800 from my mbp took just 32-33 minutes.. now that's what I call a real transfer.

well I guess that's just a small problem that you have with osx. I mean you said your hp hasnt crashed in 6 months but my old powermac g5 hasnt crashed in 6 years.

Lol, I'd like you to swear to God and that if you lie even crossing your fingers that you will die by a horrible traggic accident within the next 2 days that if you tell us that you've NEVER been to a porn site, ftp site, torrent site, limewire, kazaa lite, bearshare, Warez, etc.. c'mon man stop trying to look like a saint and stop trolling around these forums. I dont even believe that you've ever owned a mbp since all you do is base your facts on a couple of mac users out of millions that posted some majorly isolated issue with their macs which they got an exchanged and witnessed no further problems for years to come. When windows even after a good 6 months of no crashing will eventually crash and a reinstall in needed.

I'm sure 99.99999% of people does the exact same thing I do, stop trying to be so modest.

I've never even used any of those programs nor do any of my friends who had powerbooks or powermacs for 7+ years now and still runs fast as the first day it was turned on. Defragment runs in the background in osx.

Apparently someone never really used osx here.. hmm.. 1 program= 1 picture icon.. just trash it and its gone

Yes I believe it had one case of the victim of this virus.. which really didnt do anything in the end anyways. But in "real life" the typical user will pretty much never see a virus.

omg.. video playback is awesome on the mbp, games runs just fine under windows via bootcamp, it even runs vista better than my bros new dell =/ and burning games.. c'mon I burn dvd's, dl discs for my 360, 1080p stuff all fine without any problems via toast.. man I'm starting to believe you've never owned a mac.

ahh no wonder your opinions seem uneducated.

yea it does sound like those things just that you dont have to install those after just a fresh install of osx and its built in seemlessly onto the os and works much better as well.

oh man.. windows media player.. the worst player of all time.. all you need is VLC player and your done deal whoady~~ All you need.

additional webcam + more software to install.. ewww.. thank god for the invisible isight cam built in.

hmmm.. can you explain and how so?? ichat works so well and its still built in and the ui looks just much better and easier to use. It looks awesome and simple as well.

hmm.. ok how is it better?? I remember the major headaches of setting up windows mail back in the day of 2000 and xp.. when mail just sits right there on your dock and just takes you to easy step by step fill outs of what type of mail you have and just add all your mail at once for easy ass access.

oh yea he had windows updated to the most recent one, still doesnt stop it most of the time.

Your wrong on that, ccfl backlighting dimms 50% of what the lumens is every year, the human eye can adjust and it perceives it to look the same brightness every year or doesnt seem to dimm as much but if you look around on ccfl backlighting you will see that its true. I had a macbook thats about a year old and when my brother bought his new macbook put it side by side.. my 1 year old macbook's screen was sooo dimm and the new one looked so much brighter about the -50% brightness from the original lumens difference. The 1 year old macbook didnt even seem like the backlighting has dimmed until I saw the new macbook's screen. Especially my brothers 1 year old dell's screen look like utter crap after looking at the 17" led screen. Just that much more vivid and clear, no murkiness. http://www.flickr.com/photos/gorgont/1401649962/ just check this out right side is a mbp with ccfl backlighting and assuming it in the worst case that dimm mbp with the ccfl backlighting is 2 years old probably used fullbrightness most of the time and a brand new led backlit mbp on the left which will look exactly the same brightness as seen on the picture in 3-10 years to come.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/karen_2020/538886825/ check this out led on the left and ccfl on the right, I know pictures dont do justice but you can clearly tell how much more vivid it looks on the led as to the murkiness on the ccfl screen. This is much more apparent in real life as well. another thing to note is that my 1 and few months old 15" led backlit 2.4Ghz mbp looked bright as day 1 and while comparing to my brothers 1 year and a half dell laptop, his white color looked more of yellow/white than the white on my mbp.

Just because its not stated on the apple website does not mean that its not true.. silly silly little man. Not only apple uses led backlighting but sony does as well and dell too. If I compare my 17" led screen and the 15" led screen to even a desktop monitor from the apple cinema display or the dell or whatever without led.. you can clearly see that it looks blurry and more murky and not as vivid. This prooves to me that you've never owned a mac or even another brand notebook to truly see the benefit of led backlighting.

After 10 years of ccfl backlighting I was fully utterly blown away by the quality and vividness of the led backlighting made the pictures and words look. Its that much more vivid and not as murky, try comparing one in real life instead of youtube videos for yourself.

Plus yes, you've found some "evidence" about some crashes on the osx side but those are just some isolated issue that probably just was a lemon that happened frequently or just happened once or twice. I can tell you my friend that I can dish out hundreds of thousands of videos with windows blue screen of death or viruses, or other issues from dell, asus and whatever pc products they came out with as well.

All OS has some sort of crashing but if it were a competition of which runs better with the fewest crashes and if my life was at stake and yours were as well, I'm pretty damned sure that you would put your life on OSX to be saved.

I dont know what sane man wouldnt, but only the man that never seen or used first hand experience would make those kinds of judgement and take windows over osx.


I used to be one of those fools that were ignorant and always saw the old ass mac at elementary schools that were only good for paint and used for organ trail. Everytime I saw a mac commercial I just didnt get it except that the g4 or g5 or something suppose to be whatever % better than the intel pentium III or 4 that it used and I used to think what bs without even playing with the most modern osx available.

Bill Gates is a genius when it came to marketing microsoft, and now the tide has turned for mac to do the same and everything is setting and taking place.

IBM just switched over to linux I believe last year or almost 2, you WILL see the downfall of windows in the next 5-10 years with all big and small businesses using linux which is what osx is underneath of the unix system which crashes far less than windows and is more stable.

Just let any programmer/developer/business IT expert tell you which is more stable and it will always be linux/osx.

 

Well, I think it just comes down to whatever you like best.

I love my 15.4" (I don't really care that much for 17").
I love that my computer gets all warm and hot. It gives me a sense of "it's really doing its job!" (for what I do, at least)
I love that my OS X doesn't crash when I empty the trash.
I love that my audio apps haven't crashed ONCE in almost a year since I got the computer / compared to 2-3 crashes A DAY in Windows when exporting big projects.
I love that I can switch to Windows whenever I wanna play Pro Evolution Soccer with my friends.

Some people might not love all the things I posted above. Some people might love more things than I've posted above.

If you don't like it, don't buy it, and that's about it. That's why there are stores you can get a feel of the product, that's why there are so many companies so you can choose a product that fits you just right.

just my 2 euro cents

 

I agree with you except the heat part, I love feeling the aluminum cool as to it being a dominos heat wave box with sweaty hands.

But other than that the 15" mbp with led is an awesome machine as well.

 

i don't feel the need to prove you wrong, because everything you are saying is a matter of opinion and personal taste, none of it is based on cold hard facts, because what you are talking about here is what makes a machine good, which is completely different for every person you ask. realize that and save your self a ton of time.

 

hmmm,that guys above saved me some time

 

The guys seems to me not educated in the osx section. I really dont have a need to use windows at all. I only have it in bootcamp in 18gb partitioned just for COD4 to play online. Recently I havnt even touched windows in the past 3-4 months and havnt even played COD4, I might just uninstall windows all together and get rid of windows. As I already have COD4 on my ps3 via my 52" sony bravia xbr4 with a dedicated ht sound with b&w speakers to do all the bluray, especially gaming.

IMHO I think gaming on the computer side is slowly dieing and within 10 years the gaming console will have taken over most of the gaming market. There will still be gaming on the computer side BUT I think since gaming consoles are getting closer to the computer's hardware that it will take over.

Computers do look better in the gaming graphics but to me seems too much $$$ just for a little bit more clearer graphics of the same games. Especially hd games now look just as good as a $500 graphics card.

Also For example COD4 looks pretty much the same to me as on the ps3 as to on the computer at high settings (I had a mac pro with the nvidia 8800gt as well). I guess the mouse and keyboard combo is what people like.. but imo too that when you get used to the controller, I think the controller is much better.

In the end whatever works for you stick with it. If windows has never failed you (its never failed me in the past either since I know how to maintain it without getting any viruses running firefox and never going to porn sites and warez, pirated stuff etc..) But in reality people go to any one of those sites more often than you think. C'mon who doesnt look at porn once in a while I bet 100% of people do it, lol and those porn websites especially the banners are full of open gates for viruses and what not. But if you use firefox it can be prevented only those who use the Internet explorer gets trojan/viruses from the activeX which is evil.

Anyways both os's can do the same things its just your preference of how you'd like to do it and for me the integration of osx to do everything is nicer and much much better experience.

 

I love it when people are saying PC gaming is slowly dying, but then again nVidia releases monster cards every month even, and ATI/AMD are trying to catch up, Steam is growing and growing, Blizzard are making PC exclusives etc..

it just cracks me up.
yeah right, because of piracy. Bull.

 

honestly, 10 or 15 years from now, PC's may be the primary game consoles.

once integrated graphics really takes off and $400 computers are great game performers, the market is going to be massive, and its going to be tapped.

way more massive than any game console, ever.

long term - pc is going to take over.

 

^A little offtopic

 

oh yeah, sorry.

sarumon is way off, apple rocks.

please continue.

 

I know its off topic and we'll get back to topic after this comment, I honestly believe that integrated graphics will never catch up to a good dedicated graphics.

Because by the time integrated graphics can provide the same performance as an nvidia 8800gt, the dedicated gpu will be light years above those specs which will need to be fullfilled for those future game's requirements, which the integrated gpu wont be able to run.

Online gaming as just took off on the console's side successfully with the xbox 360 and ps3 but I believe more so on the 360 side. If any of you just noticed that the consoles that just gotten hd games recently are starting to look like and catched up with the pc games.

I know there will be newer graphics card coming out for the pc but just wait until the next iteration of consoles are out and those consoles will compete on the same level as a dedicated gpu on the computer side.

Anyway, I take back the comment that I said that pc gaming will die because as long as computers exists people will want to play games on it and the pc gaming industry will strive and live.

Its just the matter of how good a console will become where people all together drops or stops building the $2000-$3000 gaming rigs.

 

Heh heh. That was good.

Heh, thats true. It's not like I'm here to bash or anything. All I did was point out the shortcomings and some people can't accept it or handle it.

Quite honestly, the way the Apple fans treat people who disagree and the way they act makes me ashamed to own a Mac. I don't want to be associated with these people. I'm not like them.

On another note, jjahshik32's post literally made me laugh out loud many times. I normally don't laugh out loud when someone says something dumb in a post but I couldn't help it with some of the things he said.

What innovation would that be? Their hardware lacks features that are common on PCs. Their OS can't do as much as Windows can. The only thing Apple really does is give you a nice suite of mostly useless applications that you generally have to pay extra for to get full functionality (like paying for .mac/mobile me for iWeb, or ordering things from iPhoto, or paying $99 for additional loops for Garageband).

Oh and I'd really like to know why the "World's Most Advanced Operating System" (again) can't handle multiple monitors properly like Windows, and, even though it detects it as a photo printer, won't allow my photo printer to print properly ON photo paper. Windows does this without any additional drivers! In OS X I have to send the picture to the printer's internal HDD and print it from there.

Heh heh heh. You realize that Windows 1.0 supported a mouse, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.01 "Windows 1.0 included original device drivers for video cards, a mouse, keyboards, printers and serial communications, and applications were supposed to only invoke APIs built upon these drivers."

How long did it take for Macs to support multi-button mice? When did Macs finally support pre-emptive multi-tasking? Yeah, exactly. If you want to talk about innovation, Apple has been late to the game on many many fronts. They may have started the PC revolution, but after that they have been late to the game on just about every other front.

So you're one person that goes against the general consensus that Macs are ridiculously hot? Now, what are your temps? Screenshot please. I mean, there are thousands of people at the Apple forums, Macrumors, Apple Insider, etc. that all agree that Macs get far too hot for their own good. Yet yours is somehow magically cool?

High capacity 8 and 9 cell batteries (that don't add bulk) in 17" Windows PCs generally get around 3.5 hours of real world battery life.

10 Minutes? To go through this entire process: http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook-Pro-17-Inch-Core-Duo/Hard-Drive-Replacement/87/8/ Sure thing Mr. "No Mouse Support in Windows before 3.0".

Two HDDs in a 17" Windows PC is less to worry about than a single HDD in a MBP case that can bend, dent, warp, scratch, etc.

For $2,799, the option should be there. Besides, PCs make better entertainment systems than either the PS3 or Xbox360 and they can double as HD DVRs without the ridiculous monthly fees that both cable and satellite providers charge for DVR service.

Good HDTVs have been shipping with PC connectivity for years now, and nVidia and ATI have been supporting HDTV connectivity through both drivers and hardware for an equally as long time. A $2,799 PC (consumer or pro) will have full HDTV connectivity and the software suite to back it as standard, as well as the hardware to play HD content.

It's extremely silly to say "a laptop is not a full HDTV entertainment system" just because Apple doesn't provide that option.

Modern computers ARE HD entertainment systems. It's just a matter of whether people choose to use them as such. You'd be surprised how many do. The option to use the system as such is STANDARD on PCs and should be on Macs as well.

I mean, if I am buying a $2,799 computer, it should be able to take the place of a DVD player, a blu-ray player, game console, etc.

Otherwise it should be priced less than half of that.

Oh wait, even $1400 17" notebooks from HP CAN do all of that. What a surprise!

No. Is that bad? No. Because it means you get to take full advantage of your hardware.

And this matters how? Longer life? CCFL will outlast the usefulness of the PC anyway. I can show you many CCFL screens that are brighter than the LED backlit MBP screens too.

And this is useful how? I know how to type. I don't need this to show me where the keys are. Plus my screen illuminates the keyboard anyway.

And honestly, what is more important? What would an average person rather have? A pretty keyboard or the ability to watch HD movies and record HDTV? Hmmmm

Let's see, an extra pound for dual HDDs, GPUs that are 2-4x faster, blu-ray, etc. Hmm..

You mean, do I have to have a second OS installed to fully take advantage of my hardware? No. Seamlessly? What? do you mean? Such as plugging in my digital camera and all of the pictures are automatically taken off and organized according to date taken? Uh yeah, Windows has been doing that since XP launched.

You mean "you're".

Anyway, the MBP ships with a GeForce 8600M GT. Already proven to not be good enough for modern gaming at 720p. There are notebooks for around $1300 that ship with the 8800M GTS.

First, 64-bit Windows can address pretty much all of the RAM modern systems can handle. Second, 32-bit Windows is limited to 3GB.

Second, 32-bit applications both within OS X and Windows are limited to 2GB of RAM.

Get your facts straight

You realize you're just making things up now, right? The only way Vista handles RAM differently is that it caches software you use frequently. However, Vista will dump the cache and allocate resources as needed. XP, OS X, and Vista all have pre-emptive multi-tasking. Meaning all software gets the resources needed unless an application asserts itself as higher priority (this can happen in OS X too, just select the option in the app like iDVD) then it will eat more system resources than it would normally be allocated.

Why should I bother with getting out a USB cable, powering up my digital camera, and then plugging it in when, on my HP, I can just pop the memory card into the slot and everything is done exactly the same way as in OS X just with less hardware and hassle?

Well, first of all, USB transfer speeds depend on the quality of the USB controller chips. Second, most PCs these days are shipping with eSATA which is faster than Firewire 800 and USB 2.0.

Third, most PCs do, in fact, ship with Firewire 400. My HP has Firewire 400 on it right next to one of the three USB ports and the memory card reader.

If your brother's Dell had an Intel chipset, then you were getting full speed on that side of the PC. The lack of speed was more likely due to poor USB controllers in the external drive enclosure. Not all USB controllers are created equally.

Besides, even Apple has scaled back their own support of Firewire. How long until Apple notebooks ditch Firewire in favor of eSATA?

So you had a PowerMac G5 a full year before it was released? Wow. Thats amazing

There are legitimate porn sites out there that don't infect your PC with anything. You could always visit those you know. Unless, of course, you like the shady stuff.

Plenty of legal and legitimate FTP and torrent sites out there.

Sorry, I don't have any of that stuff installed on either my Mac or my PC.

rofl, somehow being an honest person is "trolling"?

I own a MacBook, which was purchased as a result of lapsed judgement thinking I would be okay with the limitations of OS X and the MacBook's hardware.

I'm far too intelligent to buy a MacBook Pro knowing I could get the same CPU and 2-4x the GPU for half the cost.

Thats funny because recent polls show otherwise. Most people are honest.

Again, you're making things up. Even the most diehard Apple fans will admit that OS X needs maintenance of some kind during its life time.

Actually, no, it does not. There is no defragmenting in OS X. You see, in OS X, files do not get fragmented. Meaning a music file or whatever will take up a specified chunk of HDD space and be all in that one spot. However, files can be placed all over the HDD in OS X. So one song might be at the beginning of the drive while the second song in the album will be at the end. However, the data for either song will all be in one spot.

This is why there are applications like iDefrag. Not to defragment files, but to organize files on the HDD in a way that OS X does not.

Yeah, apparently YOU'VE never used OS X. Go get yourself AppZapper or AppDelete then start uninstalling software you don't use. You'll be surprised how many configuration files, .plist files, and other files are left behind after you trash that application icon.

Actually, no. There was a test done recently by a security firm. They tried to install 16 different rootkits on Vista. UAC caught each one each time and didn't allow them to be installed.

Only if you've never seen the same video played in Windows. You don't get hardware support for ANYTHING. Not even simple things like HWMC or iDCT. You certainly don't get the advanced features like deblocking, proper upscaling, hardware deinterlacing, etc.

Thanks to OS X, Macs that have dedicated GPUs capable of that can't even take advantage of the hardware for videos purchased from iTunes!

It's just a little funny that Apple champions H.264, yet Windows allows for full hardware acceleration of the very same codec and videos.

Uh huh. I'm sorry, but that's just a load of BS. The MBP might have run Vista better back in the day when Vista was first released and OEMs were playing catchup. But now? Not at all. Vista runs better on my HP than on my Mac. And I've seen Vista running better on equally spec'ed computers compared to MBPs.

Gotta love your piracy admissions.

Heheh. This coming from someone who has gotten many common things about OS X wrong.. What? Would you like a picture of my Mac? Hell, at least I'm being honest with the things I'm saying and my actions.

Oh and Nero 7 and 8 mop the floor with Toast.

That dictionary sure hasn't helped you with your improper use of "your" and getting your facts wrong with such things as mouse support in Windows.

Windows Photo Gallery is built-in to Vista. For someone who runs Vista via Boot Camp supposedly, you sure don't know a lot about it.

Besides, you can chalk up downloading and installing Photosmart or Picassa as being equal to downloading and installing many of the utilities and such you need for OS X.

How is Media Player bad? It does everything iTunes does just with a different UI. Oh and it plays more formats than iTunes (as well as fully hardware accelerated DVDs).

VLC doesn't organize music or anything like WMP or iTunes or Media Center

Oh and Windows Media Center (Vista and XP) mop the floor with Front Row.

Uh.. did you read what I said at all? Most systems ship with something like Cyberlink Youcam when they have built-in webcams. And the vast majority of PC notebooks sold have built-in webcams.

If you have to buy a 3rd party webcam, they generally ship with Photobooth like software.

Not to mention most 3rd party webcams that aren't below the $50 mark are higher quality than the built-in iSight or PC webcams.

Well, iChat only supports Jabber clients like gmail and .mac. Oh and it supports AIM. It doesn't support all of AIM's features like encrypted IMs. It doesn't check email or anything like that.

It doesn't support MSN. The MSN client in Windows is far more advanced, with games, video chat, voice chat, etc.

Same goes for Yahoo, though the Yahoo OS X client has (very bad) video support).

Plus the UI of AIM, Google Talk, Windows Live Messenger, and Yahoo for Vista are all much better than the OS X equivalents.

You're confusing the current version of Windows Mail with the older versions previously known as Outlook Express. Windows Mail is a different beast. It's basically OS X's Mail but for Windows. Setup, UI, way it works, etc. is all very very similar.

I didn't say it was better than Mail in OS X. I said OS X Mail is no better than Windows Mail.

That is a flat out LIE. If you're using IE6 or 7 and a website tries to download and install software, it WARNS YOU and gives you the opportunity to block it or install it manually.

Firefox in Windows has been doing the same thing for many many years.

Stop lying, okay? Ever since SP2 it has been next to impossible for a website to install software without the users knowledge or consent.

rofl wow. Again, stop lying. Unless you want to argue with the manufacturers of LCD monitors that say otherwise? http://www.viewsoniceurope.com/uk/monitoruniversity/lcdvcrt/lcd.htm "The only item that ages on an LCD monitor is the backlight, which is composed of one or more tiny fluorescent tubes. The typical life of a backlight is 50,000 hours to the half brightness point-the point at which brightness is one-half of the original brightness, and the industry standard measure for product life."

Again, the manufacturers say otherwise.

Keep in mind that, until recently, Apple used FOUR different panel manufacturers for their screens. And no two screens are equal. My first MacBook had an LG screen. It was dim, the left side wasn't as bright as the right, etc. My second MacBook is evenly lit, bright, etc.

As for the pictures you posted, you realize something about digital cameras right?

That nearly every digital camera ever produced has specific settings that need to be enabled to take proper pictures of/in florescent lighting. If the proper settings aren't used then the lighting comes out dim (surprise!) and unnatural. Hell, I can take a picture of my MacBook right now without that setting enabled and the screen will look yellow and dull. Nothing like it really does in person or with proper camera settings.

Again, read what I say. If you can't understand it then have someone else read it for you and explain it to you.

Apple CLEARLY STATED on their website that users of MBPs with LED screens would see NO VISIBLE DIFFERENCE. None.

Have you even looked at the specs?

First of all, blurry? How in the world does a BACK LIGHT have anything to do with how the picture is RENDERED? The back light has absolutely nothing to do with how the picture is rendered on screen. That is entirely up to the GPU, LCD panel (not the backlight!) and the OS.

Here: www.howstuffworks.com spend a few hours there.

You also need to look at the specs for the brightness of both the LED backlit MBPs and the ACDs. You'll find that the ACD specs are rated MUCH higher.

Had you actually seen one in person (sorry, you've admitted to endless illegal activities and have had all of your facts so far proven wrong) you'd know that the ACDs are brighter than any of the MBP/MBA screens.

If you google "Vista Crashes" and "mac OS X crashes" the results are so close that they're basically the same

Oh and theres another thing to consider. Apple is notorious for their hardware build quality issues.

Outside of Alienware, can you show me any similar issues with PC manufacturers? Ah, I thought not.

BTW, you remind me of someone over at macrumors that got proven wrong in very much the same way you are here.

How many hospitals run on OS X and Macs?

Yeah, we'll see the downfall of Windows alright. Because somehow, people are going to be okay with buying $1,100 notebooks that don't even have DVD burners in them and 1GB of memory when the average Wal-Mart laptop can burn DVDs and has 2-3GB of RAM for about half as much money.

Windows is stable on stable hardware

I know more people in the arts (artists, musicians, artists for websites, anime artists) that trust their lively hood to Windows.

Again, you're lying. Everybody else and their brother says their MBP or MB or MBA gets hot. yet yours is cool? I don't think so.

Uh, no. It's not an opinion that a $2,799 PC should have standard features that computers costing more than $2,000 less have, like HDMI, user replaceable and upgradeable parts, etc.

That doesn't mean too much coming from someone who thinks that applications in OS X consist of a pretty little "picture" and nothing more. Or thinks that OS X defragments in the background. Or thinks that Windows had no mouse support before 3.0 heh.

You do sound a lot like that guy from over at macrumors who made the same argument, admitted to the same illegal activities, and got owned in every aspect of your argument.

Considering your lies, lack of common OS X and Windows knowledge, and inconsistency in your arguments, I'd bet good money that you haven't owned anything you claimed to have owned and that you're on your parents computer right now reading this.

Oh, and if you had OS X, you'd know there is a system wide spell checker and it would help a lot in all of your posts.

10 years ago people said PC gaming would be dead in 10 years because of the more powerful consoles.

Uh no? If you actually had that Sony Bravia you claimed to own here and on macrumors, you'd clearly see the upscaling artifacting present in nearly every game on the PS3 and Xbox360. Nearly all Xbox360 games are rendered at 720p and upscaled to whatever resolution the monitor or TV Is set to. Halo 3 is rendered at 640p. Most PS3 games are rendered at 720p and upscaled, and a large number (like GTA4) are rendered at 640p and upscaled.

Modern PCs can do native HD resolutions with no scaling.

Personal preference or not, it is a fact that a controller will never be as accurate as a mouse.

So now you're contradicting yourself by saying you don't pirate things, yet you've admitted multiple times to illegally downloading movies, games, etc.

Anyone who has actually used Windows XP SP2 knows that IE will NOT automatically install anything. It automatically blocks all software and gives the user the option to install it themselves or continue on with it blocked.

Again, no, they can't do the same things. OS X has no hardware video acceleration of any kind for any codec. It can't handle multiple monitors properly on notebooks. It can't pass 8-channel LPCM over HDMI because the OS and hardware don't support HDMI!

OS X doesn't have a lot of specific tweaks that are easy to enable either, like Windows ability to set the clock speed on the processor for power saving states.

Yeah, for all of 6 months. There were more powerful PCs available than the Xbox360 and PS3 at the time of both of their launches.

hah! Just because Apple charges outrageous prices for their systems doesn't mean you have to pay that much to get a good gaming PC.

You can build one right now that would put the Xbox360 and especially PS3 to shame for less than $1,000.

 

honestly, sarumon will disagree with whatever you say.

i don't back up apple 100%, and apple isn't perfect, but anyone who is going to write 3000 just to make sure that he disagrees with everyone who had a good apple experience speaks for itself.

and as far as the gpu thing, think about it this way:

as components get more and more powerful, and process size gets smaller and smaller, new gpu's need more and more bandwidth (with the cpu).

eventually, the need for bandwidth is going to be so great that the only solution is to absorb the gpu into the cpu. they will ultimately have to become one part. its possible that intel will buy nvidia and incorporate their tech into their cpu's. its the reason why amd went ahead and bought ati.

edit: sucks that my post is buried under this crazy unnecessary rant that is too long for anyone to read.

 

Heh, interesting thread.

 

Honestly I didnt even bother to read Sarumon's last post, its just too long of false statements. He just will counter whatever he can in every single little statement even though it doesnt make any sense. He's just a huge troll in these apple threads.

Anyways back to the main topic, the 17" mbp is an awesome machine and especially the 1920 x 1200 led screen and also since you've got work to pay for it for you its a win win situation.

 

wow,souron compressed "everything bad about apple" in 1 post...

 

Who is "Sarumon"?

Anyway, if my statements are false, then it wouldn't be so hard to prove me wrong, now would it?

But of course, I wasn't the one who was saying things that were wrong, like you were. Such as the whole LCD lifespan thing. Or Windows mouse support. Or OS X applications leaving behind files and other things after they are "uninstalled".

Trolling means coming into a thread and saying something like "h4wh4w MACS SUCK!" and then leaving.

I provided proof for my arguments, backed up all of my statements, and everything I said was 100% true.

You, on the other hand, lied about endless things, admitted to illegal activities, and then ran away when you got proven wrong and tried the usual "hes a troll!" argument.

 

Doesn't excuse Apple from not using dedicated GPUs in the MacBook and Mac mini.

Oh and I'm not "disagreeing" or "trolling" or anything. I just pointed out facts. The other poster disagreed and made up a bunch of lies about many things and I corrected him with facts. Simple.

Despite OS X's flaws, I would have a "good" experience with my MacBook if it just had a dedicated GPU like any other notebook that costs more than $800 does.

 

Oops my bad I thought your sn was sarumon, like I said I'm just skipping his posts (I've just read it to the point where he corrected me for making a mistake on spelling his sn and I skipped the rest of his replies) so I dont even remember his sn lol.

Just way too off topic and he should belong in another forum, his trolling is starting to get on my nerves. And its just a waste of time to read his posts which makes absolutely no sense.

I'm starting to think he's some 10 year old stubborn little kid, or some old, fat guy sitting on his high chair just defending microsoft to the death. Its like for example when we say the earth is round, he will argue it to the death that were wrong because microsoft saids its flat, or the grass is green but he will counter it saying that its really blue because of (BS).

 

Alright, again, its way too much to argue with you. Its completely unnecessary and too much work to bother proving you wrong.

you wrote like 3500 words on why you hate apple. thats great and all for you, but it doesn't help anyone else. i looked at it for about 5 seconds and had to skip it. i'm not writing 7,000 words to go over everything you said and explain why i disagree with it. i might not even disagree with it all, but i don't know, because i refuse it read it.

sauron (your name looks like sarumon at a glance - completely random, sorry lol), if you have a point to make, please try and be as concise as possible. ranting about how horrible apple is doesn't help anyone. just say what you have to say in 100 words or less and then let it go already.

and seriously, no one forced you to buy a $1000 laptop without a gpu. if a gpu was that freaking important to you, you should have known not to get the macbook. no one forced you to get one, and its not like they hid what was in there.

-masterchef