13" MacBook/Pro/Air - Concerns and Questions for Owners [Open Discussion]

At least so far it sounds like it's not that bad in any case. All laptops will get hot when under heavy use, the question is how hot, and how easily does it get hot. Also, watching videos may not qualify as "heavy" use but it will reduce battery life and increase heat slightly as would anything else.

I think the only way to really test heat is to own one and use it for a while, aside from asking other people what it's like. Descriptioins like "it usually runs pretty cool" or "sometimes it gets hot" are interesting but just too vague to be helpful I think. So maybe a good question now would be (to 13" MBP owners):

Under what conditions does it the temperature raise noticably, and how hot does it feel in these conditions?

 

ac500 -- do you notice the "fuzzy fonts" on a Mac, or not? The problem for me (and some others) is that text on a Mac looks fuzzy or blurry compared to the same text on a Windows PC using ClearType.

To be honest, this is the #1 issue holding me back from buying a MBP. Just wondering if it's an issue for you as well.

Here are a few reference threads:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=716370

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=245012

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=367918

 

Well, my new MBP is installing OS X right now, as I upgraded the HDD to 500GB.

So, these are the observations I have.

1. Looks gorgeous. Out of the box, in the box, open, unopen. It's simply WOW!
2. Very quiet. No sound at all.
3. Feels quality.
4. Battery life seems good, on initial glance. It was at 69% when I got it. Put it on, played with it, went through the initial setup. For about 15 minutes. Then put it off and upgraded the HDD. Put it on again and have been installing the OS for the past 40 minutes and its gone down to 57%.
5. Its been installing OS X for about 40 minutes now and no noticeable heat coming from anywhere (a little warm on the bottom, but nowhere near as warm as my Dell or my EEE PC).

When I was at the store, I was picking them all up and checking for heat. The Macbook Air that was on display was crazy HOT! It had burning palmrests, and the bottom was something you could probably cook on.
The Macbook sitting next to it was off, so I went to the 15inch Macbook Pro on the other side. Again, a little warm, but I guess it'd been on all day.

I am starting to think more and more that this whole heat issue is a non issue. However, I will report back here more when I play with it more.

 

Glad you like it. Did u get the 2.26ghz version and upgrade to seagate 500GB HD 7200rpm? If are the boot times quick?

 

I got the 2.26 and upgraded to the 500GB WD Scorpio Blue, so its a 5400 rpm drive.

Boot times are less than half of my Vista machine. So are the shutdown and restart times, as well as sleep time.

I told it to restart and it restarted so fast and brought me to the login screen, I was for a second confused as to whether it had actually restarted (I was looking away from the laptop).

Overall, performance seems good. I am going to be upgrading it to 4gb ram in the coming weeks as well so that I can run a Windows VM to run Quicken, as well.

I have more or less found alternatives to all my windows software, except for Quicken. And those lazy guys at Quicken have no 2009 version for the Mac (I use 2009 Rental property manager).

 

I think I did notice text looked different, but I don't remember it bothering me that much. But it was a long time ago. Maybe there's a way to adjust it?

PhoenixAG: Thanks for the review, very helpful! It's good to hear that it's not getting too hot for you under normal conditions. It seems a lot of reviewers are reporting this: it would seem Apple has for the most part fixed the unbearable heat problem, although I'm sure there's always the chance someone might get a defective unit putting out too much heat.

I guess the next thing we should look for now is what the heat output is like when watching videos on your lap, and while on a bed/couch.

 

New thread on this: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=733867

 

AC500 -- I understand that you're looking for feedback on subjective aspects of the 13" MBP -- but, why haven't you considered / mentioned the Sony Vaio Z, which, I think meets all of the objective requirements that you've discussed (weight, display, processor speed)? I think that your only mention of the Z was a concern about the trendiness of its styling? Any other reasons that you wouldn't consider it as a possible replacement for your Thinkpad?

 

Congratulations on your purchase!

BTW,if you have any questions about your new machine,Mac OS or Apple in general,feel free to ask-we are always ready to help

 

I think the biggest issue for me would be going back to a touchpad, and the build (explained below). Apple seems to make the best touchpads, and I don't know if I'd want to settle for anything else unless it's a trackpoint.

I've always viewed portability as the #1 factor in a "good" laptop, but I realize after going through a few laptops that light weight isn't always portability. Lower weight always helps when it's in a suitcase/backpack, but my definition of portability includes a lot of carrying it around like a book; and as long as weight isn't unacceptable, even a slight lack in build quality and ergonomic design can detract more from the portability factor than the light weight adds.

My X300 for example is almost the perfect form factor to carry around like a book largely due to it's solid construction and "ergonomics", as well as weight. One problem with the Vaio Z's design is the wedge shape - with my SZ I've learned that this can be annoying since if you hold it by the thick end it's easy to carry, but by the thin end almost impossible since the angle lets it slip out of your hands. Another small but significant issue is the display rigidity. The flexy display on the Z isn't inherently weak since it was designed that way, but having a rigid display can be handy depending on how you're holding/resting the laptop since you can hold the screen just like any other part of the laptop. With a super-thin flexible display you don't have these conveniences.

But then again, considering the big advantage of a high res screen, it could be a tough choice. Arrrgh. Why can't there be the perfect laptop?

 

ac500 -- Just to clarify: Your use of the word "build" means the shape of the computer, not it's build quality?

 

ac500, I did not read the whole thread but I'm curious why Sony Z is not in your list of consideration.

PS. I owned the Macbook air and Macbook unibody and the weight difference is very significant.

Macbook Air has the weight of ' I don't care if I take it with me or not'. While the 2kg MBU is typically a laptop I leave at home more often.

Sony Z is just on the edge of real portability. I'm not a big fan of the design and I don't like the matte screen so much though.

But all of these laptops were actually too expensive for what I was doing with them. I used them as deluxe netbooks. Acer 751 can do that too for $300. And I can carry it in one hand. It lasts 7 hours on one charge. The 11.6" 1366*768 screen is very good. Practically close to Sony Z or MBP quality. I sold my first Acer 751 but I might pick up another one.

 

Ok, so I've now been playing with it for a 2 days. I've been downloading, installing, backing up, basically stressing the machine as a new machine would be stressed.

So, on further study, the machine does get warm. It's not like its some magical thing where it remains ice cold However, I have not noticed it getting uncomfortably warm, and less so than my Dell.

When I was stressing the machine, I saw temps of

CPU go from 40C to almost 80C. It stayed around 60C.
HDD go from 35C to 40C.
Base enclosures all stayed within 30C-35C, usually on the lower side. I guess this explains why the machine was only warm to the touch and not hot.
Northbridge and the place where the motherboard and CPU are located was the only place where the heat was coming from.

Keep in mind that the temperature outside (weather) is about 40C-45C. This was in an air conditioned room, however.

Thank you. As of now, I have been searching for the questions I have and have found most answers, but will definitely jump in and ask if I have any specific questions.

Actually, when I went to the Apple retailer, there was a Sony store right next to it. I popped in there to have a look at the Z. It was only available for a little more and had specs like P9700 CPU, 6GB DD3, 320GB 7200rpm, 1600x900, etc.

While it was tempting, when I saw the Macbook I was simply WOW. After hearing so much about the Vaio Z, it was simply underwhelming to see it in person.

I agree with ac500 on the weight/size issue. While the Z was 1.48kgs, the Macbook seemed more portable.
The wedge shape is also a disadvantage.
Plus, the whole thing just seemed flimsy. I can't put my finger on it. The flexy display really led to this feeling too.
The styling on the laptop looked so 90s compared to the MBP, also

And the resolution, while excellent, was just too high for me. 1600x900 on a 13.1" screen is overkill. The text looked too small and I knew I would need bigger glasses if I purchased it.

2 other reasons why the Sony was discounted were

1. I didn't want to upgrade to another Wintel machine (I'd rather have waited for Arrandale, then).
2. I don't like Sony's customer support or service. They are very finicky and have problems even if you change the HDD yourself. And its simply bad.

 

Having owned both I can tell you: The shape of the uMB 13" is more portable I agree. But the weight is not. 500 grams matters a lot when it's in my bag. It's the difference between strain and no strain.

If the Macbook Air did not cost so much and not look so old fashioned I would be tempted to buy one.

Apple needs to update the design so that it looks the same as the 13" MBP imo.

 

True, the weight matters as well. However, as I am coming from a Dell which weighed almost 3.5 kgs with batteries and charger, I am actually very happy for now I am sure in some time even this weight will start pulling on my shoulder.

Places where I need a very small laptop or where I know the laptop might get bumped around, I take my small EEE pc.

However, when I checked out the Air in the store, it was burning hot! Did yours get very hot as well?

 

Glad I'm not the only one

I wonder if my expectations were unrealistic. I read *so* many good things about the Z that when I finally got my hands on one in person, it was a bit of a letdown. Maybe inevitably.

It just didn't feel right. Holding it, opening the lid, typing on it. The display seemed nice enough, but not "to die for" nice. And the high res / small screen . . . it wasn't for me. I was willing to look past my reservations about Sony's service and support if I was "wow-ed," but it didn't happen for me. I was beginning to think I was strange. Or maybe I just have company...

 

Not at all. But I've only owned Airs with Intel chipset. Never the new ones with Nvidia.

 

I don't really get the objection about the wedge shape. I've owned various laptops and various Mac computers and the wedge shape makes not one bit of difference to me. So people really pick up or hold their laptop in that position anyway?

The Z looks more understated than the MBP. The MBP is more flashy looking especially when compared to the Z4/7 with the black chassis. I do prefer the looks of the Z.

The x301 has got nice specs and i like the interchangable battery but the looks in my opinion let it down. The MBP and x301 are two opposites looks wise really.

About the SZ touchpad i have never had a problem with the size. Then again the size of your hands could come into play.

ac500 i think that you should just go for it and see what you think. You can always return it if your not happy.

 

I'm still reserving final judgement on the Z vs. MBP in-store of course, but I have a feeling the things I mentioned will make the MBP win over the Z even though it's so much heavier.

The thing about the wedge shape is that it's thin in the front and thicker in the back. Maybe it's actually not a big deal on the Z, but on my SZ when you grab it by the front it's hard to carry not only because most of the weight is near the back but because of the angle. And I'm not the type to carry my laptop in a bag and pull it out only to use it on a desk - I use it on various surfaces in various positions.

It's a little bit of both. When I first got my SZ I was impressed by the build quality, compared to my old HP. But when I got my X300 it made even the SZ seem like a toy in comparison, and the MBP is similarly solid in construction, if not more so.

Which, the MBP or the Z?

I've always disliked touchpads really, so even going to a touchpad from a trackpoint is a compromise. As far as touchpads go the glass one on the MBPs is the best I've ever used, although I think the Z isn't bad.

Hmm.. now I'm starting to think more and more about the Z. I guess I'll just have to go to a store and feel both of them and see if the wedge, build, and trackpad of the Z is a problem, and compare to the MBP.

 

I agree the MBP feels more durable than the Sony. But that doesn't have to mean the MBP is more durable.

As you can see here I used to believe the Alu MB is more durable than Z. After reading some more complaints and seeing pictures of bended MBs I am not so sure anymore.

Sony feels almost flimsy, but is it really? I don't know. The videos of Z dropping look very impressive, but are those videos accurate? Again I don't know.

 

I think I mentioned this somewhere here in this post, but the rigidity of the MBP makes it very sturdy for normal use, but as soon as you drop or otherwise abuse it, it's going to take irreversible damage. The Z will definitely be better simply because of the flex, and my Thinkpad of course because it's incredibly tough as well as very rigid.

But for people who don't drop / abuse their laptops, the MBP has no disadvantages here. In fact it's better to have a rigid screen in normal conditions because while flexing can help prevent damage from drops, etc., it puts day-to-day wear on the components you don't otherwise have in a rigid chassis.

 

Good point.

I assume that you are aware of the way Macs display fonts. If that's not an issue to you and the weight is no issue, I think MBP is the way to go.

 

I cant help but ask are you buying this for a fashon statement or to work with?

Seriously what do you expect to do with either machine that you are worried about battery life, heat, screen res, and a multitude of whatever has been mentioned?

If you are buying for fashion to take to some chic coffee shop forget it Dell has you all beat. But at the same time see how may Vaios and Glowing Apples you see there compared to Dell. Dont mind me I dont own a Dell and dont wear my machines as fashion.

If you plan to do serious work ie video, photo, data, do not expect your battery to last 8 hours. Apple will tell you that both in the store and on the screen when you open the application. Any App taking a serous drain on power, Apple prompts you to PLUG IT IN.

If you are doing Safari or simpile Ebook or very light weight Apps then battery will be fine. DVD movies is considered middle of road, because you have a moving part (spinning disk) there will be a drain, it has nothing to do with processing the code.

As far as res we are talking about a MBP 13" which is nothing more than the Macbook in an aluminum shell. We are talking BASIC MAC on the cheap. Its for those who need a portable with guts (not like MacAir), that will give you a full blown computer to work with on the go. If you want full RES you can always hook it up to the Mac Monitor which will work very nicely with it. But then again you cant carry a 24" monitor into a coffee shop without issues.

Lastly the heat. If you dont understand how Mac unibody works or how thei airflow works, take a very close look at them. First the unibody conducts the heat away yes but it also sucks in the air from the top through the keyboard and exits out the back by the hinges. Very good becuase thats where the main guts are and yes the palm rests do get warm but they wont get hot. I do not use any laptop on a bed, lap or anywhere where there is not clear flow of air around it. Table tops, desks, Lap Tables, work much better than laps or knees.

I use both PC and Mac so I have been there done that still doing it and will continue to. Either way pick which ever will do what you need done more efficiently. If it doesnt do what you intend it to do dont get it plan and simple.

 

Concern for battery life =/= desire to spend all day at Starbucks. At least for me, it's about travel and ability to use at conferences where # of laptop owners in need of power outlets typically exceeds supply by a wide margin.

 

Makes you ask why are the tables near outlets in Starbucks always occupied all the time?

Its because all those at the conferences are running their pc's at full blast doing apps that require plugging in. If they were doing simple text noting it would be different And watch them during a break rush to an outlet for a half hour charge up.

I have never been to a presentation (unlike conferences) where everyone is not plugged in.

 

Wow, sounds pretty good. I haven't heard of that one.

Phil, have you read about the Samsung N510 ?

 

Not sure what you're getting at, Soloman. In my field, I hardly ever see people doing anything much more than taking notes, occasionally checking email, using web browser, etc. Powerpoint / Keynote while presenting. That sort of thing. Some people can manage power and get through an entire day. Some can't.

The trick, IMO, is to find a machine that lets you be part of that first group but still gives you ace performance when plugged in at a desk. Hopefully, I succeeded at identifying such a machine (knock on wood)

 

Dell's are cheap, not fashionable. Maybe fashionable among cheap laptops though. But I don't care about "fashion". I do like a laptop that has a "functional beauty" like my Thinkpad though.

That's obvious, and nobody does this kind of work on battery for long periods of time. But many people need long battery life for web browsing research, word processing, and maybe light programming work.

Actually there is processing - decoding the compressed video and displaying it on the screen. Even watching videos stored on a hard drive take quite a bit more CPU power than web browsing, for example.

Or I can use my 3.3 pound Thinkpad X300 which has high res AND a portable 13" screen size.

I do use laptops on my bed / etc., all the time, and my PC laptop does just fine. Doesn't get hot at all.

Because most laptops (aka cheap consumer laptops like Dell, Acer, etc.) have horrible battery life.

Soloman: I don't know what you're trying to acheive here but you're doing a good job of convincing me not to buy Mac.

Again, like I said my current Thinkpad laptop is perfect for me except it lacks performance and longer battery life, and I'm looking into options for these in the event they become critical issues.

It just occurred to me though that I can almost double my X300's battery life at no additional weight if I install a bay battery in place of the DVD burner (which I don't use). As to performance, I have to consider that for most really performance intensive tasks even a MBP won't be enough, so I'll end up using my powerful desktop anyway. And the more I do programming work on my X300, the more I appreciate the screen resolution. Hmm.

 

Yes we're discussing it here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=387436

I don't really need a strong GPU but I'd like some more power than N280. Just for HD Flash.

 

To be honest, I'm starting to lean that way too. I was all set to buy the new 13.3" MBP, but now I don't know. I think the momentum is slowing down for me.

Thanks, I'll take a peek at that thread.

I also think I'll take another look at the Samsung NC20. The screens on the 10" models are too small for my taste, but the 12" screen should be fine. Or maybe someone will come out with an inexpensive 13.3" netbook. That would be ideal, I think.

 

We're drifting off topic here... but Asus 1101HA is available in 2 weeks. And many 11.6" laptops are just around the block. Also Asus U30 and a Lenovo 13" are coming soon.

 

Thanks!

Back on topic now...

 

ac500, I was talking about trying the MBP. You seem quite keen on it.
Btw, what is the weight of your x300 with a 6 cell battery and dvd drive in place?

 

With the 6-cell and DVD-burner or bay batter it's about 3.3 pounds. With an empty bay slot it's 3.1 and then with the lower capacity battery it can reach 2.9.

Mostly I really like the performance and battery life. Other laptops might offer this at a similar weight but as far as I've seen only Mac's, Thinkpad's, and maybe some Sony's offer the build quality and input devices I require. The Vaio Z is another option but I don't think the build/touchpad will work for me. The Thinkpad T400s would otherwise be perfect though if it wasn't for the Intel integrated graphics, which wouldn't be enough of an upgrade to be worth it.

I've actually decided that unless I have to upgrade to more performance (and since I use my desktop for heavy processing I don't think I will) I'm just gonna buy a bay batter for my X300, which should expand the battery life from ~4 to ~6 hours at least. I don't even use the DVD drive, and if I need it I can always install it.

 

I do heavy video I am running several Macs at a time including the tiny Mac Book. Which for its size and power can do amazing things. And I stated that if you just do basic Web browsing and stuff, yes battery life lasts a long time.

And yes most of those who cannot manage power have themselves to blame.

First off I dont work for Apple so it doesnt matter if you buy one or not. But I can tell you this that for the value you cannot beat them.

Your Thinkpad is running on intergrated gpu, the new Macs run on Nvidia using a LED screen. If you really want to see movies on it, they will look pretty damn good.

Heat again, your Thiikpad does not generate a lot and the MBP doesnt roast either its just warm due to components, you can live with it. I prefer something flat under it to allow air flow thats just me. But then again any good lappy you buy today will have heat issue.

Your battery life on the MBP will be better than your Thinkpad. Your stating that in order to get what you want you need another battery. And if you think that the battery in your tray doesnt weigh better check again. Same goes with any other brand I can always get a bigger battery to last or a second one to swap out.

Also a spiinning hard drive draws more power and generates more heat than the DVD. CPU processing DVD video is no more of a draw than typing on word pad.

But do whatever I am just stating from experience what you will encounter.

 

Um, would just like to put in that get a Mac if you intend to use Mac OS. As you might have noticed from the various Windows on a Mac threads, they might not be ideal for using solely as a Windows machine.

It doesn't bother me as I really haven't tried it out myself (love Mac OS) but it might be a concern for you.

Build wise, this seems absolutely solid and I know of at least one person who just tosses his old MB Black in his messenger bag without caring at all and it still looks as good as new after a year.

I think it would survive a fall, though with cosmetic injuries. Might not survive a bigger impact, though if you do have a bigger impact, then I would just be thankful that only my laptop is dead

I can clearly notice the fonts are done differently on a Mac. It looks very soothing on most text, like the one on this forum. But I can see how some text (like iTunes song text) can look a bit blurry, coming from Windows.
In any case, its not an issue for me.

Btw, I tried out the whole Atom processor netbook thing. I have noticed that while you do get good battery life (my 901 used to give about 7 hours, now gives 5-6), the performance tradeoff is not worth it if you want to do even a little bit of serious work. It's good only as a small and portable handy computer to browse the web or edit small office documents.

A normal laptop is still better for everything else and this MBP gives me around 7-8 hours (I've checked) and still has enough power for day to day work.

Although, if you want my sincere advice, if I were you I would stick a bay battery in my X301 and use that. It might get as heavy as the macbook, but I have watched as my earlier R52 laptop fell from 4 feet onto marble floor without even a tiny scratch on it.
And the same laptop survived multiple falls, impacts, etc. without a problem.

 

Ok, here are the official numbers:
My current configuration: 3.32 pounds total weight.
Bay battery (8hr batt. life): 3.51 pounds total weight.

So you're right, it does actually add weight, but only 0.19 pounds. The reason for this is the DVD drive which I'll be swapping for a battery weighs 0.19 pounds less than the battery. Now if I wanted it even lighter I could remove the bay completely and I'd get it to 3.08 pounds with just the 6-cell.

1. I seriously doubt a spinning hard drive draws more power than a spinning DVD. Where do you get this information?
2. I have an SSD, it's standard in the X300 - no moving parts
3. Sorry, but saying that DVD video processing is no more power draw than word processing is simply wrong. And if you meant with a spinning DVD drive, that's even more wrong.

As to heat, etc. I think we've pretty much figured out that the MBP 13" doesn't get too hot, but it does get slightly hotter than a high quality Windows laptop. In any case it should be acceptable to most.

The reason I've decided to keep my X300 as long as I can is it's just such a good laptop, and there's no reason for me to change if I can upgrade the battery life and live with the performance (which I think I'll be able to since I do all my intensive work on my tower PC anyway).

Intel integrated GPU isn't going to reduce movie quality, it's the screen that puts out the colors. But I will agree the X300 screen's contrast ratio isn't as good as my Sony (even though it's very bright), which probably is similar to the MBP 13", so it's not the best for movies.

The advantage of Nvidia graphics is of course speed and OpenGL support (for cross-platform 3D programming work, which I do mostly on my desktop).

Yeah, that's another thing I love about my Thinkpad. It is very reassuring knowing that you don't have to worry much about damaging your laptop inadvertently (not that the MBP isn't good at this too, aside from drops onto hard surfaces where it would of course dent).

Anyway if I do need to get a MBP or something else it will most likely be in addition to my X300.

 

HD 5400-7200 RPM

DVD 540-1600 RPM

SDD None

I had figured that you would pair the tray battery with your main one for greater time. I would sooner swap main battery for the extended life and keep Dvd in place.

The new Macs use NVidia 9400 for intergrated the 9600 is for the advanced gpu requirements. Open GL is good on both so either one works it.

 

I already have the highest capacity main battery. There's no 9-cell main battery available because it would have to stick out, and due to the design that's not possible (fine with me since I don't like batteries that stick out).

RPM proves nothing. Which takes more energy, a 7400RPM hard drive or a 740RPM plane propeller? Anyway, the real proof is in the power consumption, and when I play a DVD my watt meter definitely shows more power drain. Same for playing videos from the SDD or anywhere, much more power than word processing.

Exactly, and that's one of the temptations for me buying one.

 

Sorry, I wasn't exactly planning on joining the fray, but I just wanted to point out to ac500 that it's not real fiberglass used in those computers (referring to your sig).

 

gAccording to IBM:

They didn't say "glass reinforced plastic" or "carbon reinforced plastic", they said "glass-fiber" and "carbon-fiber", so that's what I posted in my sig. If you want to argue about whether this is correct information or not, then fine. Also I don't know if it's mentioned but the bottom is either metal or carbon fiber because it's extremely stiff and I can't find even the slightest flex anywhere.

Anyway you might say it's not "real" [...] for whatever reason, but I don't care. If you told me it was made out of paper-mache it wouldn't change the fact that this is an incredibly tough and solid laptop . P.S. It's true that you can hold a Thinkpad in the air horizontally holding it by the top end of the screen only and it barely flexes at all. Solid steel hinges are nice too

Anyway this is definitely off-topic in the Apple forum.

 

You use your notebooks the way I do.

There is no Apple notebook for you. They all get too hot.

When I watch video on my rev B Air it gets too hot for comfort unless it is on a table with ample airflow. 38-40 Celcius is where I draw the line.

 

I'm a new Mac owner with a few questions:

When close to an outlet, should I go ahead and use my charger all the time? I'm on campus and I'm constantly around an outlet.

Can I partition the internal hdd (160gb model) so that I can use Time Machine on it? If so, how much space should I set aside?