13" MacBook/Pro/Air - Concerns and Questions for Owners [Open Discussion]

In a way this thread is pointless to me personally because I'm satisfied with my current laptop and don't plan to upgrade for a few years anyway, but for those who this topic is immediately important this could be helpful, and I like to keep up to date on the laptop market for when it comes time to buy my next laptop. There are some pretty major concerns (to me) I would like to resolve in regard to MacBooks vs. (etc) here if possible.

First, some background: I prefer my portable computers to be lap-tops rather than notebooks in that they MUST be usable on the lap, on my bed, held in one hand, moving around all the time, to be used anywhere and everywhere I go, etc. If the heat, weight, etc. makes this inconvenient or impossible, I might as well throw the laptop away. That's how important it is to me.

For anything that involves being used on a desk, it just makes sense to me that a desktop setup be used, and in fact for my work no laptop is powerful enough anyway (at least not until it's so heavy and clunky to the point where it's no longer what I would call a notebook/laptop, but a "suitcase" computer box), so that's the perspective I use for my laptop choice. Consequently, I usually am only interested in 13-14" laptops.

My current ranked list of incredible laptop computers are:
1. Thinkpad X300 13" 1440x900 - 3lbs (my current laptop)
2. Thinkpad T400s 14" 1440x900 - 4lbs
3. MacBook Air 13" 1280x800 -3lbs
4. MacBook Pro 13" 1280x800 -4.5lbs)

BTW, this isn't about educating me on technical specs or pros/cons of the mentioned laptops (unless there's something I am obviously missing), since I'm already aware of pretty much every little detail and feature of these. I'm curious as to the more subjective nature - the thing that can't really be put on paper, and makes one more usable than another to you regardless of stats, that will maybe (or maybe not) resolve some concerns I have with the Macs.

Also note that I would like to avoid the topic of OSX vs. Windows entirely. My choice is 100% hardware based in that I have no preference to OS and both work equally well for me. Even if it is really important to you, it's highly subjective and won't be productive to discuss in this thread anyway.

So, from my experience (so far), nothing beats the X300 for pure usability and convenience. I have some interesting (to me) questions as to your experience with the Macs listed above (since I haven't used them much beyond store impressions), so I'm hoping you mac owners can eliminate some of my concerns that keep them from the top of my list, because clearly these are all some amazing laptops.


General Impressions

First, the MacBook Air is by far the best no-compromise of portability/power that I've seen. GeForce 9400 + 2.16GHz Duo is impressive for the lightest laptop in the list. Unibody is excellent. My concerns are: low-res screen, heat output?, and mouse usability (I'll explain below).

The MacBook Pro 13" looks amazing (I like the style better than the MBA), has excellent battery life and speed. Unibody is excellent. My concerns are: it's heavy, heat output?, brittle screen?, low res screen, and mouse usability.


Specific MacBook Pro 13" Concerns:

Weight: The 13" MacBook and MacBook Pro at 4.5 pounds is clearly still an "obese" laptop as far as I'm concerned. The upcoming 14" Thinkpad T400s is 4.0 pounds, despite numerous advantages to me like higher res screen, etc. (except for a slower GPU). So my question is, does the weight difference matter? How does it feel to you when carrying it around? Do you ever feel an urge to put it on a desk rather than your lap, etc. as a result of the weight?

Brittle screen: I'm just speculating, but if you dropped a aluminum MacBook, not only would it dent but the screen would likely shatter. It's not a big disadvantage because I don't plan to drop my laptops, but it's nice knowing that my Thinkpad is durable to survive 3+ foot drops without issues. The biggest thing is sturdyness under normal use, in which unibody + glass is at least as good if not better than the carbon fiber / fiberglass in my X300. Also, does the glass glare ever become a problem?


MacBook Air & Pro 13" Concerns:

Screen resolution: I've used both 1440x900 and 1280x800 on a laptop, and I've determined that anything below 1440x900 is a pretty serious compromise to me for everything involving reading / writing. No questions here I guess other than, why doesn't Apple put 1440x900 screens in their 13" MacBook Air/Pro? It's a major con which would make me seriously hesitate to buy one.

Mouse usability: I am personally a fan of trackpoint "joystick" mice because it's very precise, consistent, and usable in all conditions. However, I think MacBooks have the best trackpads on any laptops, so if I was ever to use a laptop with a trackpad, it would probably be a mac. How does the "clickable" glass trackpad of the unibody MB work out in terms of convenience, etc.? How about the MBA? Do you ever get tired or annoyed using it?

Heat: Most mac owners I've known seem to think that laptops running uncomfortably hot is a fact of life. It's not. My X300 anyway usually feels just barely above room temperature to the touch, and at it's hottest when playing a HD video or something when resting on a soft pillow with 0 airflow, only a small square under the fan/CPU gets considerably warm (but never uncomfortably hot) to the touch. Under normal use, like web browsing, how hot does the MacBook Air, and less importantly to me the MacBook Pro 13 get when playing web browsing, and also playing video. It's a given that video games will heat it up a lot, so don't worry about that. Most importantly, can you use it for hours on your lap / bed / couch web browsing and watching youtube videos for example without heat issues?

Style/"Coolness": This is less important, but generally the MacBooks are regarded are more stylish than the stereotypically "boring" Thinkpad design. I love the design of the unibody MacBook, as well as Thinkpad X300 (both clean, simple, and elegant), although I like the MBA slightly less. I have two questions here: Do you wish the MacBook Air wasn't so uneven and "lumpy" in favor of a more symmetrical box style like the MB 13", if it meant it would be 0.6"-0.7" rather than 0.15"-0.75"? And has the "cool" factor of the nice style worn off for you yet, where you begin to realize little annoyances you ignored when you bought it?

 

What the heck - I'm always up for a good debate. I have no horse in this race, as I like both manufacturers. Here's my "devil's advocate" response:

The integrated GPU in the 400S is not slightly weaker than the integrated GPU in the MBPs. It's a lot weaker. And I'm sure the 4lb weight listed by Lenovo is with the smallest battery. Which is not at all comparable. Once you upgrade to the extended battery, the 400S loses its weight advantage, and also falls further behind in the style department, with that large wart sticking out of it's back and/or underneath.

 

Good point, I'll correct the "slightly" slower part in my post. The weight point is true too, although if you look at some videos of the T400s, you'll see that the battery is mounted similar to the X300, which means there won't (and can't physically) be big ugly "warts", and it certainly isn't going to be heavier than 4.5 pounds. The point was the MacBook is still "overweight" as 13" laptops go, but what I want to know is how does it feel in practical use.

I hope I didn't make the post misleading - this is not a debate. For issues like what you brought up I'll update incorrect or misleading facts in my post of course, but the main topic here is the subjective things like how people personally feel about heat output, etc. for example.

The reason I ask TBH is I love the unibody design of the 13" MacBook/Pro/Air, but these concerns would have to be settled before I considered buying one at some point.

 

I was thinking that you'd actually have to go up to a 9-cell to get comparable batter life. Laptopmag's battery test for the new 13" MBP was 6:15 in OS X and 4:50 running Vista (continuous web surfing). Their result for the T400 with 9-cell was 5:19. PC Mag got a similar 5:20, using integrated graphics. The T400S may be more efficient than the 400, but probably not by that much.

edit: I meant 'debate' as in back-and-forth exchange, not as in "smack-off."

FWIW, my informal weight calculation was this: A T400 with 4-cell weighs 4.7 lbs. With a 9-cell, it weighs 5.2. So I added .5 lbs to the starting weight of the T400S and got 4.5.

 

Maybe I should put it another way: This isn't to compare the laptops listed here, I already know all the pros/cons fairly well I think. Like you mentioned the 13" MBP gets amazing battery life, which is a huge advantage. Definitely something to consider next time I buy a laptop, but that's not the point. The point is no matter how much I'd love to have that battery life, etc. the concerns I mentioned will keep me from buying a Mac. If most of those concerns can be shown to be not a problem, then I'll be free to weigh the various strong points (like portability+power = MBA, power+batt.life = 13"MBP, screen.res+portability = X300) without worrying too much about encountering issues that make the laptop not work for me at all.

I know . I just mean while I'm glad you can correct me on spec errors, it's more about resolving my concerns about these "issues" the Macs have and the Thinkpads don't - which may not be as bad in real life as I'm making them out to be based on my perception of them on paper.

Certainly, the Thinkpads have issues of their own, like the screen contrast isn't so great, and my X300 could do good with a faster CPU, but unlike MacBook's, I have daily experience with these and I know that they're not big issues to me and I'm perfectly happy living with them. Similar this is what I want to know - for the mentioned "cons" to MacBook/Pro/Air's, how does it work out in the real world for you and why?

My X300 with a 4-cell battery and DVD burner is ~3.15 pounds, and with a 6-cell and DVD burner is ~3.35, so that's about a 0.2 pound difference. The T400s is much closer to the X300 than the T400, although I'm sure the batteries will be larger so the difference could be bigger. However, I assume there will be no 9-cell at all for the T400s - just like the X300 it's physically impossible. Anyway, this debate is largely speculative until we see the specs, so if you like we could focus only on the 13" models.

 

I guess my questions is: why would I want to convince you to buy a mac?
If it's the right machine, then it's the right choice. If it isn't it isn't.

There's no point in discussing things like screen resolution. If you want to have windows open side-by-side, and it matters for your productivity, then higher resolution is better. End of story.

But some of the contrasts you've drawn seem exaggerated, so I've pointed them out. Another would be heat. Notebookcheck measured the hottest point underneath a 13" unibody MB at 41 Celsius, under load. A T400 (with integrated graphics, not the ATI chip) came in at 37 Celsius under load.

So there's another contrast that isn't actually that big a deal to me. Unless you need to spend a lot of time in Windows. Then the MB will run warmer. But if you need to spend a lot of time in Windows, or if you'll lose productivity by going below 1440x900, then a MB probably isn't your best choice. And I wouldn't try to talk you into one.

 

True. I guess then what I'm saying is it's borderline on the right choice. All the options I listed are very close to the optimal laptop for me, so I'm wondering if some of my preconceived disadvantages aren't as severe as I think. If so, a MBA might actually be better for me, for example.

I know, that's why like I said the only possible discussion here is: Why not add 1440x900 to your 13" laptops, Apple?

I've heard Aluminum is more painful than Carbon/Fiberglass/Plastic when heat is concerned. But I don't know, that's why I'm interested in real-world opinions. Heat values don't mean as much to me at this point.

Well I'm assuming that on a Mac I'll be running OSX of course. Assuming OSX, I'm wondering how the heat is in a situation like this: Laptop sitting on pillow / soft blanket, web browsing, misc. videos, some word processing. This is what I do with my X300, so if for example I couldn't do this reasonably comfortably or safely with a MB, this could be an issue - again I'm asking for opinions so if your response is "it gets hot but runs just fine and doesn't bother me", that's helpful. If it turns out to be a non-issue, I can remove it from my list . That's basically what I'm after here. If these issues are in fact irreversible, that's unfortunate but I just want to know the real-world experiences and opinions.

Regarding the 1280x800, like you say it's pretty much universally a disadvantage against 1440x900, but in another way it's almost a gray issue because I don't do a lot of work on my laptop, so in that sense the MacBook's better "play" capability makes it better suited, assuming that the other mentioned concerns (like heat when near-idle on-lap) turn out to be nothing to worry about. Bu the screen res is an issue I'll have to figure out on my own, and probably shouldn't have mentioned it here to begin with.

 

I don't have a unibody MBP, so I'm not the perfect person to provide real world perspective. The few times I've used my 15" MBP for Windows gaming, it's gotten very, very warm. But, then, it's not on my lap on those occasions. That said, the early 08 MBPs are still aluminum, and I've never felt the temperature in OS X to be uncomfortably warm. Running Windows is a different story.

I've used it on a desk, on my lap, on the couch, on airplanes - all without any discomfort. Though a 13" would be more practical to use during a flight, but I digress...

The one place I am careful about using the MBP is in bed (bad joke goes here). It does warm up more quickly because the machine's weight tends to sink it down into a blanket or bedspread. That's not ideal, because with the display open, the only real vent is that thin strip on the backside of the machine, between the lid and the bottom of the chassis. It's easily blocked by a blanket or bedspread.

 

Ok, this is basically what I'm interested in hearing (with the MacBook Air / Pro 13" particularly though, of course). Looking at pictures, the location of the vents of the MBA does look pretty badly situated for this kind of thing. Maybe the MBP 13" is better? Hopefully we can get some experiences from MBA/MBP13 users on this.

Off topic, but I've always wondered - why don't they put the air intakes & vents on the top of the laptops (and for when the screen is closed, small slits to channel it through the screen and out the side).

 

Aha, you better change your first post ac500. You have X400s listed instead of T400s. You sent me googling about frantically for a minute there.

 

I mentioned this in another thread today or yesterday, and while the thermal characteristics are no doubt different (I'm willing to bet that my faster proc evens things out a bit), my 17"mbp stays in the 40's on my bed watching a video, unless I've got a lot of windows open in Firefox, then as high as mid 50's. I don't put it on the blanket; it rests on the the sheet on top of the bed.

My overall impression has been, "wow this thing stays much cooler than I thought it would on my bed."

I know you're looking for subjective opinions to all this, but I'm unsure as to how someone telling you that their 4.5lb notebook isn't a big deal to carry around is going to help you. They may have had the exact same concerns as you, yet their opinion could be the exact opposite of yours. I think putting your laptop in a bag for an hour and walking around, and then adding 1.5lbs and walking around for another hour would be much more helpful. Would think this would apply to some of your other concerns, eg. set your screen res lower for a day and see if you can deal with it.

As to why Apple doesn't put higher res screens in their products....who knows? Its all speculation. Most likely them being cheap.

The glass trackpad is awesome. plain and simple. I never get 'annoyed' at it but its only suited to typical computing. Its not like you can use it effectively in PS or Illustratoror some 3d app. I had to use it the other day with InDesign while at the printers and it was a pain in the butt, but it'd be the same with a joystick.

I've had mine for just under 2 months and I think it still looks good. I've had my G5 tower for years and that still looks good. Heck even my 1st gen 22" cinema display still looks ok (well mb not that one). I think if you like the design now, you'll like it next year...its not like there are a bunch of neon glowing lights like on an alienware, which I imagine could lose their appeal (if there was any to begin with) quite quickly.

Lastly, I'm sure that the glass screen would shatter in some cases where a regular matte screen would not be damaged. Applecare, should there be a need.

 

Well the weight issue isn't an issue of carrying weight but handling weight - what it's like to use it and if it restricts your use of it much in practice. Though now that I think about it if you've never used a 3-pound class laptop, you wouldn't know any better. In that case I guess it would be best for people to give a summary of where/when/how they use their MacBook in a portable way.

As to the resolution, I don't know if I mentioned I have a Sony SZ which has 1280x800 so I don't need opinions for resolution. Like I said I probably shouldn't have mentioned this, I just wish Apple would put 1440x900 in their 13" laptops, that's all.

Of course either one wouldn't work for drawing, etc. that requires quick dexterity. Good to hear you like the glass trackpad though

Lol, true. Actually I think both MacBooks and Thinkpads are like you mentioned - if you like them at first, you'll always like them. The design is simple in that way. The reason I asked is because the Sony Z (and SZ also) I loved the design of initially but now not so much. I suppose Sony's design is a little more trendy (as well as HP, Dell, etc. for that matter).

I guess the only way to truly satisfy these questions like weight, etc. would be to buy one and use it myself, or learn what I can from display models (although that doesn't help the heat issue much - I did notice the unibody MacBook didn't feel hot at all, but it was idling of course).

 

Probably b/c internal components get a lot warmer than the chassis. Do you want the laptop to channel 160-170 (F) air toward your hands/wrists/face?

 

I don't think you understand what I meant. If the airflow could be properly configured, you could have vent slits on the front left near where the screen meets, pointed 45 degrees to the side and slightly back so the wind doesn't blow into the user. I don't know, it was just a random idea, and it doesn't really matter in this discussion anyway.

 

Ah, I see what you mean. I dunno why nobody's tried it.

 

So my question is, does the weight difference matter? How does it feel to you when carrying it around? Do you ever feel an urge to put it on a desk rather than your lap, etc. as a result of the weight?

Coming from my HP dv2500t to this laptop has been a pleasant change. The weight does have a 'solid' feel to it. But there is such a huge advantage in form factor that I can place the laptop easily amongst my books in my backpack, plus it weighs a full pound less than my former laptop. It fits easily in my lap and never feels like a burden. I primarily use it on the couch at home although I have used it in bed and the weight has never felt annoying or ponderous. There is one interesting side effect (or slide effect with the aluminum. It does slide around a little bit depending on the fabric underneath it, but this doesn't break the bank for me.

Also, does the glass glare ever become a problem?
Yes and no. The brightness that the screen is capable of is adequate to overcome glare sitting in Starbucks with the windows open, but this cuts into my battery life. I can still squeak out close to 6 Hours with varied Word Processing mixed with web browsing even when flirting with roughly 80% brightness.

Screen brittleness
Hmmm, I've never dropped a laptop of any make or model. But I worry about rough treatment with this laptop alot less than with any other I've owned. I consider the glass to be an advantage over other designs as modern day glass tends to be much sturdier than people give it credit for.

Screen resolution
Yeah, it could be better. But here is where the Software is actually advantageous. Safari and Firefox can both adjust to a larger or smaller res. The zoom feature in Word 2008 is decent too. Those being the primary programs I use the res is not too big a deal (plus the trackpad's ability to zoom in and out in several of the native programs and expose have changed how I deal with multiple windows). Apple does need to improve on this though. Every computer company cheaps out somewhere, this happens to be one of Apple's areas of growth.

Mouse usability
It took me one day to adjust to the trackpad. After that break in time my speed of navigation has increased enormously with this machine. The gestures have alot to do with this (again native to the OS). My fingers don't stick or hiccup on the pad and clicking is nice and easy (but a little loud, especially when video chatting with gmail or skype-this would be to my listeners, and I've been on the receiving end of this as well, it is a minor annoyance, but one nonetheless).

Heat
Cooler than my HP and Dell, but still what I would characterize as a little warm. It doesn't brutalize my legs by any means, but it's not amazingly cool all the time during video viewing and web browsing. Here's the thing. I don't ever have to worry about blocking air vents again while the laptop is sitting on fabric and that is worth any minor discomfort to me. Since this laptop ventilates through the keyboard it can get a little warm. The material transferring the heat more easily is just plain physics. That being said I've noticed no substantial heat difference in normal use between the aluminum and my former plastic laptop.

Style/"Coolness"
I think this laptop will stand the test of time. I appreciate the elegant simplicity of the design as well as the slim form factor. I still enjoy just looking at it. One tiny annoyance is that ridiculous glowing apple on the back. I don't like it and probably never will. To me it symbolizes computing arrogance, but that's my own issue.

Hope this helps you out. I've worked extensively with both OS's too and enjoy the benefits of both with Boot Camp when I'm on the go.

 

Thanks, that's definitely the kind of info what I was hoping for, very helpful!

Good point. I guess like my screen resolution "question" this wasn't a very productive question for me to ask, because the difference is pretty obvious. They're both really good, but the Thinkpad's gonna be more tough and resilient to abuse, and the MacBook's gonna be more solid but vulnerable to cosmetic damage - but I've never dropped a laptop in my life, so it's not a big issue anyway.

Interesting. That's one idea I've always especially liked about MacBooks: they don't have vents on the bottom. Even if it runs a little hotter overall, I can accept this so long as it means I don't have to worry about blocking vents when setting it on fabric as I did on my original HP laptop. With the MBA though, the placement of the rear vents looks pretty bad for setting on a soft surface that lets it sink in at all, so it would be interesting to hear from some users on this (and of course more MBP 13" experiences / opinions help).

 

Well, I've been reading user reviews, etc. and it seems that I just couldn't justify the MacBook Air for my use. The only advantages over my X300 would be it has a much faster GPU/CPU, but that alone isn't enough to justify the disadvantages.

The 13" MacBook Pro is still a very interesting option though. The strongest "pro" here is the battery: 6-8 hours of battery life, and lasts 1000 recharge cycles. If my needs change at some point to where 4 hours isn't enough, this option could outweigh minor issues. Then again, with an extended battery my Sony SZ would weigh 4.3 pounds and get 8-10 hours of battery life, but I guess it's useless when the keyboard/mouse/build quality isn't satisfactory.

Out of curiosity I switched back to my 4 pound Sony SZ for a while, and surprisingly (to me) the thing I dislike the most compared to the X300 isn't the weight, which I actually don't notice too much - it's the build quality and small touchpad. Compared to the X300, which is practically as solid as a rock, the SZ seems to have little creaks, squeaks, and flexing as you hold it or open/close it. Also the SZ touchpad is annoyingly small (which sadly is common among most non-mac laptops). A trackpoint is nice because there's never any need to lift your finger if you move to far as with touchpads, but I think the Mac touchpad is large enough that this isn't an issue, and my limited experience of it in a Apple store gave a pretty favorable impression.

What I might do next is strap .5 pound weight to my SZ to make it the same weight as a MBP-13", and just see how it feels. If it's acceptable, then the only remaining issue is screen resolution and heat, which I believe won't be a problem but will have to do more research on this.

On screen resolution, following CireNaes's suggestion to simply downscale fonts, it's working surprisingly well for web browsing so far. The only thing downscaling can't solve though is when I read large PDFs fullscreen with small fonts, they're blurry on 1280x800 but not 1440x900.

As to the heat issue, I'd love to hear more experiences from new MacBook Pro 13" users on this (and general impressions too)

 

I hate to hijack this thread, but have a quick question. Do you guys think this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYDy2M6n5iY is for real? GTA IV on a 13" macbook? I remember playing GTA IV just when it came out (ie. without patches) on my desktop which was just able to handle it (HD4850, Q6600). Don't mind low settings! Any thoughts?

Can the 9400M handle (I know it's integrated..) The Sims 3, Fallout 3 and perhaps even Prototype?

 

On the heat issue, I can say this. I have the larger 15 inch model, and when I have a movie open, am skyping, while internet surfing, i hit about 65 C. When its just internet or something its in the 40's. I put it on my lap, no difference, on my bed, no difference. Now i do know that when you put it on your lap, your legs will sweat, heat is heat regardless and it will heat up your legs.

 

My new macbook pro 13" is 40-45 idle and 60-65 load.

Not sure how cool you like your laptop, but this is hotter than what i'm used to (dell 1520 30-35C idle!). But my old dell was huge, undervolted, and I reapplied thermal grease to achieve those temps.

Since the macbook is made of aluminum, it transfers heat much more quickly than plastic, so you will have a perceived feeling of more heat. My experience with it is that the chassis does feel hotter than other laptops, but I rarely have it on my lap and when I do the heat/weight doesn't bother me much.

Construction, I think is top notch. Since the unibody is one piece with a backplate, there is almost zero flex. Another plus is that since there are very few creases it will minimize dust from entering every crack.

The vent is in the back, so I wasn't all too worried about setting it on my bed while using it, but it will get hotter than being on a desk obviously.

I was in the same boat as you when looking for a portable laptop as I am tired of lugging around supposed "laptops", so I settled on the macbook pro 13" because it was the most powerful lightest laptop I could find.

On top of all this, I think Apple has the best looking laptops. Aluminum, magnetic latch, magsafe charger, slot load dvd, glass trackpad, and very thin. One of these things by itself may not seem a big deal, but when put together, it gives the laptop a premium feel that is a cut above the rest. Because of this, I feel like my laptop would have a longer appreciation value as computer hardware gets outdated so fast now.

There won't ever be a perfect laptop, but overall I am very satisfied with my purchase. But that would be up to you if the disadvantages in the mac is something you can overlook.

 

Yikes. That would bug me. I happen to be considering going from my Sony FW to the new 13.3" MBP. I've never had/used a Mac before, so I've got lots of concerns -- yet I'm very curious.

Since I've read MBP comments like "this thing runs hot!" more than a few times, heat is one of my concerns. I often use my FW on my bare legs (wearing shorts) without any heat problems. A little bit warm, sure... but never hot or uncomfortable or sweaty. Would I be able to do the same with a 13" MBP? I dunno.

Screen size and resolution is another concern. I keep looking at my cheat sheet hoping for answers :

FW -15.10 x 10.3 | 6.5 lbs | 1600 x 900 / 111.94 ppi
15 - 14.35 x 9.82 | 5.5 lbs | 1440 x 900 / 110.27 ppi
13 - 12.78 x 8.94 | 4.5 lbs | 1280 x 800 / 113.49 ppi

My other concerns are the typical Windows to Mac OS X transition issues. I've used PCs and Windows for a loooong time, so switching would be a huge leap for me. However, the curiosity is growing -- especially with the lower price of the newest 13" MBP.


EDIT: oops, I forgot to mention my biggest issue/concern with the MBP. Text on Windows with ClearType tuned on is nice and sharp. But text on a MBP (with any font smoothing setting) is fuzzy and blurry in comparison. This is a biggie for me, unfortunately.

 

I'm Almost in the same boat as you are. I have a Sony SR and wanted to go to the Macbook Pro but like you comments on the laptop running hot have me worried as my SR is comfortable when idle. It only gets burning hot when i'm running a game for more than 1 hr 1/2. Btw, when did u get your FW?

 

Back when they first came out, in August of '08.

 

Read my posts above about heat. I'm not sure how hot FW gets, but those are the temps I get on my macpro 13"

Macbooks are in an all metal body and is .95" thick, no other laptop can say this. Together, this is going to create a hot laptop to the touch and there's no Apple magic to get around this.

Small chassis in an aluminum body will transfer heat faster than plastic laptops. IMO, Im willing to make some sacrifices for a little bit more heat.

If you haven't used OSX, I recommend that you try it out first before buying

 

Bummer.

Kinda hard to do that standing in an Apple store with screaming kids trying to use the machines.

 

lol,

Maybe watch some of the vids on the OS at apple.com then. I got my exposure to OSX through the Macs we have here at my college.

Theres also a good review of the macbooks here and it'll show you how hot the bottom of the macbook will get.

 

Actually those temps (assuming they're CPU core temps) aren't bad at all as laptops go. My X300 is running at 50C although it's in a 87F room (and uses an older architecture that runs hotter; that said the case is barely warm to the touch) - normally it runs at 45C-ish. In any case, those number at least indicate that the MBP 13" shouldn't fry itself, which is reassuring. That's my biggest concern with overheating, probably due to my experience with an old 17" HP that would shut itself down it got so hot (you could actually physically burn yourself on it).

Also I've been reading posts in this thread:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=391824&page=3

And a few users have commented that it actually runs pretty cool (one mentioned that it runs cooler than a Dell e4300 on their bed, which is a good sign although Dells aren't particularly good in the cooling area to begin with). One even mentioned they switched from a Sony Z (which is the laptop in my profile pic which I was really excited about when it came out) and seem to be liking the MBP13.

I've actually been trying to be more conscious about how I use my current laptop and I think the MBP would work fine, but I'm not sure. I think I'd really just have to go buy one and use it to find out for sure how it works for me. Either way I'm not gonna worry about it much now because my X300 is working flawlessly for me so far, but when I need more processing power and battery life (which I have predicted - which is the reason of this thread ["preemptive research" ]), the MacBook Pro 13" looks to be a pretty good option.

Also, if I do get a MacBook Pro 13" eventually (out of necessity or otherwise), I'll probably keep my X300 anyway (still an amazing laptop), unless I find myself naturally using the MBP13 exclusively.

 

Would you not rather the laptop be slightly heavier if its made of a virtually indestructible aluminum casing vs. ahhhh plastic?

 

With what I've learned about build quality from my Thinkpad X300, I'd definitely sacrifice weight for better build quality, but don't think my laptop is plastic . The bottom is magnesium alloy, internals magnesium and carbon fiber reinforcement, and the rest of the case and lid is carbon fiber or fiberglass I think. There may be some plastic, but it's rock solid in any case.

But the build of the MBP is actually even better for everyday careful use - it's pretty much as solid as you can get (a solid piece of aluminum + glass display panel = maximum rigidity), and I like the idea of being able to clean the display so easily, and not have to worry about touching or scratching it so much. Unfortunately, as soon as you drop / accidentally abuse the MBP, it's gonna shatter / dent / etc. where my X300 would survive with barely a scratch. I've never dropped my laptop though, so there's nothing wrong with either in my view.

I've probably stated this before, but the main reasons I would have to buy a MacBook Pro 13" would be (compared to my X300): additional CPU & GPU power, amazing battery life, a screen with deeper contrast, and great looks & solid build quality. It sacrifices though: screen resolution, weight, trackpoint mouse (but from what I've heard about it's touchpad, I probably won't miss this too much), and toughness to abuse.

 

Actually, being right on the egde of buying a MBP 13", I am keenly interested in the heat issue as well. Every other thing sounds good to me, the battery life is fantastic and I love the design.

My Dell gets hot on my lap to make me sweat. It idles around 45C and goes to 60C under load. If the Macbook is the same and it has an aluminum body, I think I might feel the heat even more.

Even for the OP, I think most issues have been sorted in this thread. The only remaining definitive issue is heat. I have been reading the other thread too and basically, there are varied reports right from "it barely gets hot" to "it gets too hot to keep on your lap".

 

Exactly, heat is the only unsettled issue now. Screen resolution and weight isn't really resolved, but I've determined that they aren't serious issues.

The range of reports is confusing - it makes me wonder if the units themselves are varying, people's perception, ambient temperatures, or use of software. For example on windows, my laptop gets noticeably less battery life and runs hotter if you don't optimize the programs installed and the ones that are permitted to run in the background.

 

Hey ac500, I just realized that I was the first person to post in your Sony comparison thread. Looks like we might both be getting the same brand laptop -- again!

 

Lol, I remember that . It seems like such a long time ago for some reason, but I guess it really isn't. I also remember the huge Vaio Z/SR/FW anticipation thread. Oh, and I was the first person in the world to find and post a picture of the Vaio Z as far as I know, two or three days before the Engadget leak (it was a tiny blurry picture of it from the side from the sig of a Sony employee or something which I recognized, downloaded, and digitally enhanced ).

It's pretty interesting how it seems a bunch of old Sony users are considering switching to Apple now. Apple really seems to be coming out with more and more competitive products lately, particularly the new MBP 13" with it's amazing battery life (and long-term "life" of the battery itself).

Although I don't plan on buying a MBP 13" until September - December. Basically I'll have to see if the changes in my laptop usage that will happen then require the battery life and performance the MBP offers. I also could be doing some cross-platform programming work soon, which could be another reason to get one

 

Yep. That was fun. And I was the first to discover the discrepancy in the FW190 stats (Sony stated a different hard drive than what was actually provided).

True. Funny, but the Sony FW looks pretty darn similar to the MBP... right down to the chicklet-style keyboard.

Gotcha. Personally, I don't need a new laptop at all. The FW runs great, and I actually like Vista. Go figure. But I've been curious about "the other side" for a long while now, and this new 13" MBP might just be the Mac that pulls me in.

 

not sure if this is valued info, but chicklet style keyboard was designed by Sony, then copied by Apple.

I think chicklet is by far the best design for laptop keyboards. Very quiet typing and smooth depress of the keys.

 

You're totally right on the low res screens. I'm actually pretty mad that the 13" MBP, especially being called a "Pro", does not have a 1440x900+ screen.

 

I actually dont care about the name moniker. I would of bought it even if it was just regular macbook.

But I think the main reason they just made it Pro was to make it less complicated. That or try to get more sales.

 

And that brings us back to the main issue of heat...

As far as my understanding goes of the various comments, its something like this.

If you use the Macbook for general surfing and office apps, it doesn't get too hot. If you use it for a little heavy work like watching videos or encoding, etc., it does get hot.

What do you think?

 

I don't think watching videos falls into 'heavy work'. On my machine, watching videos in bed doesn't cause it to become hot.

 

On the topic of videos, I noticed that when I play videos in Windows Media Player, or worse, Quicktime, my battery life and heat gets way worse. But when I use VLC media player (which is cross-platform), it hardly uses any CPU at all and my battery life is barely effected as well.

Depending on the kind of "heavy" work, any laptop will get hot, so that's to be expected. The difference to consider here is that the aluminum chassis, as it's been said before, acts as a giant heatsink and warms up along with the internals, where a carbon/fiberglass/plastic laptop has a good level of insulation from the heat, even though the heat is still there, internally.

The most important thing for me is idle or near-idle heat output, as with light web browsing without many flash ads, word processing, checking emails, etc. From what I've heard, most people say it stays pretty cool for this, but I plan to go see it in an Apple store and test it out for myself some time.

Edit: Also, I wonder if the 2.2GHz and 2.5GHz versions make any difference in heat output. I bet it would.

 

Where does the heat on a MBP seem to come from? Top? Bottom? All over?

My main concern is heat on/from the bottom, since I actually use my laptop on my lap -- and I'm usually wearing shorts.

I'll bet you're right.

 

Hmm, the processor speed would make a difference, although I suspect a much smaller difference than you'd expect.

ac500: That's exactly my concern as well. Every laptop gets hot. But does that heat get transferred to your lap? That's the basic question and I fear, the answer is actually, yes it does, owing to the aluminum design.

 

well,a simple solution-use a pillow I do that even with super cool notebooks since it may hurt your organs...

 

I don't have one yet obviously, but the last time I felt one was about 2-3 months ago with the MacBook aluminum. I remember just that it was just barely warm to the touch, nothing unpleasant at all to me anyway. If it was hotter than my X300 when idling, it wasn't by much. Now when watching videos, etc. I don't know - that's what I'd have to go check again in an Apple store to see.

 

The heat mostly comes from the hinge area of the macbook.

The hinge area has both an intake and exaust, this is why you don't see any vents under the laptop.

The remaining heat is expelled through the aluminum body. The underside of the laptop gets warm when using it.

I haven't experienced the bottom getting super hot, mostly warm.

 

I just spent about 15-20 minutes at BestBuy on a couple of MBPs (the longest I've ever done so).

I held the 13.3" in one hand, resting on my palm. It felt warmer than my Sony FW, but not too terribly hot. Hard to tell if it would be too uncomfortable sitting on my bare legs, and the security cable wasn't long enough to check.

I then picked up the 15.4" and held it on my palm. It was hot as he!!. I mean really hot. I don't know if they all get that hot, but there's no way I could put this particular laptop on my lap -- certainly not while wearing shorts.

By the way, both machines were just sitting idle, not doing anything.

One other observation: I was very disappointed to see that the fuzzy/blurry font issue was still there. I was really hoping this might have changed in the new MBPs, but no go. For those that don't know, I (and others) feel that text on a Windows PC using ClearType is sharper than text on a Mac. It has something to do with the way Apple handles Font Rendering... but whatever it is, I don't like. I would hope that I'd get used to it, but I'm honestly not sure if I could.


P.S. -- I'm typing this right now with my Sony FW sitting on my lap while wearing shorts. It's ever-so-slightly warm, but just barely. If I wasn't purposely checking for heat I would not even notice it.

 

Were they really idle? At my local best buy, the MBs and MBPs on display play a promotional video, on an endless loop, unless you interrupt it to go to the dekstop. That might explain why the 15" was hot while the 13" was only warm.

Unless the 15" on display was the model without dedicated GPU. Then, I have no explanation.

 

There was a guy standing by these machines when I got there. Maybe he played with them both and shut off the promo video? I don't know. In any case, wouldn't this video be playing on both machines?

 

I just want to pop in to say I appreciate this thread... I share many of the same concerns.

Honestly, I want the 13" MBP, but I'm trying to convince myself if I can live with the low resolution, as you mentioned before. Heat is also another big factor, so it's nice to read all of the comments in here.