M15x A08 Bios Released - 3/9/10

So if i understand this right, the extreme versions are now running at a slower clock speed than they should be? Can you provide more details about the speed difference in mhz? I don't quite fully understand the multiplier, but from what your saying, the performance of the extreme chips are now 30-40% slower?

133mhz x 14 multi = 1862mhz per core? As opposed to 133mhz x24 = 3192mhz, which it should be? sorry, im a bit confused by this, are you saying that the multi no longer increases to 24 anymore?

 

5150Joker: I knew that someone that has dealt with Dell would be able to see right through this fix. It's no fix. They just found a very convenient way to transfer the blame for throttling to the user. It's not all bad. If they have gotten rid of the clock modulation throttling then that is a good thing. At the end of the day though, users that run their laptop for multi-threaded tasks are going to see a big decrease in performance compared to A07 or they are forced to run a third party app like ThrottleStop to get back up to the speed they were getting with A07. I guess I should be happy that users will still need to use ThrottleStop to get maximum performance but I would have rather seen Dell man up to this problem and fix it properly with proper bios support and a more powerful power adapter option. This fix is deceiving to users that have spent a lot of money on a performance laptop.

 

When all 4 cores are fully loaded, the CPU multiplier will no longer be running at 24 on all 4 cores like it used to be.

Here's another tool I wrote that lets you see your multipliers on each thread in real time without it changing anything. i7 Turbo morphed into ThrottleStop.

Turbo.zip

Run wPrime and post a picture of i7 Turbo while you are in the middle of a calculation. This should be interesting.

Here's the deceiving part. Bios A08 lets the CPU run at Intel's default spec. The Alienware A07 bios used to overclock these expensive CPUs for people automatically. It no longer does that. If you want your CPU to run at full speed on all 4 cores like it used to do, you now have to run a third party app to do this. That would not be Dell approved so any problems trying to get your CPU to run as fast as it used to run is now your problem and not Dell's problem. Do you get it now? Reboot, run a wPrime bench with your new bios. Now start up ThrottleStop, right click on it and set the turbo multipliers to 24, 24, 24, 24 like bios A07 used to do. Now run a second wPrime benchmark. Do you see a performance difference?

 

Okay.... First attempt....17 multiplier sounds normal to me though? Under stress all 4 cores should run at 2.26ghz? Are you saying that Alienware systems overclock on top of the turbo boost automatically and force all 4 cores to run at 3.2ghz? if i run with a 24 multi, then thats forcing all cores to run at 3.19ghz? According to Intel spec, 17 multiplier is correct..... 5th slide down on the link here

So all that your doing by forcing the multiplier to run at 24x in throttle stop is overclocking the cpu? If so, then thats one hell of an overclock, did Alienware ever advertise the m15x running all 4 cores at 3.2ghz?

 

All 4 cores running at the full 24 multiplier used to be a special feature of the Alienware M15x and M17x. When you pay big bucks, its nice to get a feature like that.

With bios A08, that feature is gone so when the CPU is fully loaded, now you get a 17 multiplier instead of the 24 multiplier. 17/24 = 0.708 which means you have just taken a 29.2% performance hit by upgrading your Extreme CPU to bios A08.

If you do 3D rendering for a living, you will definitely notice a hit like that. Why did Dell not have the guts to come clean and tell users in the release notes the consequences of this update?

The CPU is now running at the Intel specification so you can't really complain to Dell even though they have just slowed your laptop down significantly. Perfect. That's just what they wanted.

24/17 = 1.41 so when fully loaded, bios A07 can run 41.1% faster than bios A08. Can you remove your smiley yet in the first post?

 

yes on older bios the extreme cpu is already oc'ed.

btw the 920 can run 25x across the board and be solid as a rock, super sweet!!!!!!

 

I think it was actually a bug in the bios which allowed for that. You can still get that done by using ThrottleStop as far as I know. it is an amazing overclock to be honest

 

I didn't even know about this, a 4ghz overclock across 4 cores cant be healthy though, do you have any screen shots of how the m15x used to run on A07? It would be interesting to see how the temps compare too. Do you have any info from previous tests? Does the overclock throttle the system then?

I have only had my laptop for 2 weeks so i didn't even know about the original overclock applied by alienware. I cant see them advertising it at the moment though. Does this affect all cpu's or was it only the extreme chips which were overclocked? Thanks

 

Really? I'd imagine that the drop in temps must be pretty big with A08 then?

 

here was a bench i did with the 920 @ 25x on all cores.

 

It was a deliberate "bug" in the bios. These guys aren't dummies. If you want to make your laptop look like a beast for review sites then setting the turbo multiplier the same for all cores is a great way to do it. That made Alienware stand out from the crowd.

This is pure deception now. The classic bait and switch. Here's how the Alienware performs in reviews and now that you've paid the big bucks, we've decided to significantly reduce the performance level. Completely dishonest. Kind of like buying a car with a supercharger and then when you take it in for its first service, the manufacturer removes the supercharger. Dell has done the same thing and removed just as much performance.

Here's 5150Joker's 940XM running at the full 26 multiplier on all cores. The 920XM would be running with ThrottleStop showing all cores at 24.

http://img52.imageshack.us/f/fullspeed.jpg/

Your math needs a little work. With bios A07, the 920XM used to run all cores at 133 x 24 = 3192 MHz. The CPU is obviously quite capable of running at this speed because it has been running at this speed for the last 12 months. It just doesn't run at that speed anymore when fully loaded once you've "upgraded" to bios A08.

 

If all four cores run at 2.26ghz by Intel standards, and your forcing all the cores to run at 3.2ghz, then that's a 4ghz increase across all cores, or have i misunderstood that?

 

look on the bright side of things.You now have an issue to complain about . Well, since throttlestop works this well, i dont see too much of a problem.

On a side note, would it be possible to add some command line commands to TS, so that one can start up ts silent (e.g. no window popping up when started)

 

Im downloading 3dmark Vantage now to compare our CPU scores. What resolution did you use for both 3dmarks? 1024x720?

 

Well I just popped in L4D2 after removing rivatuner and installing a08 (latest dell video driver) and the gpu never throttled. It might not be the perfect fix, but certainly an improvement on the previous bios(s). I never ran throttlestop previously as I didn't think the CPU hit would make a big difference for my main uses. However I think I will run TS now. I'm just happy that for gaming it's better than it was.

Edit: also I noticed that the voltage on my gpu gpu-z reports as 1.0 volt instead of .9v. Did anyone else notice this?

 

so guys, how is this bios achieving this? Is it somehow downclocking something somewhere or is it allowing more stress on the insufficient 150w psu?

 

i ran them the stardard 1280x1024 for vantage with the featured test turn off.

 

I only have a 1600:900 res screen, im assuming that you have the 1080 screen or an external monitor?

 

yeah i have the 1080 screen. just run it at default performance settings.

 

Mine is running at x27 with TDP/TDC of 96/86 with no problem at all. Temp are idle at 47C and max is 80C. So I think people who have 920xm or 940xm should stick with A07 bios.

 

on A07 my 920 was fine, but with my 940 the cpu was throttling. either way ts is a must have. but atleast with A08 the touchpad is useable.

so you are running 27x across the board?

 

Guys! How does all these multipliers affect the i7-720/740 cores? Has it been reduced as well? Anybody tested it using FSB? Mr Pras?

 

no this only affect the extreme cpu's. all lower cpu's are not affected.

 

Yup, that what mine set to and have ts run in the background. From gaming to daily use and benchmark no problem at all

 

man post some of your benches already, where are you hiding them, hehehhehe

 

Yes sir, I have 3dmark vantage right up. Have to reinstall it. I reformatted my laptop like almost every week. Worst then you Inap

 

wait, you are not benching how fast you can install an os?

 

Nobody ever measures CPU performance that way but if you want to measure like that then how about this:

3200 MHz - 2267 MHz = 933 MHz x 8 threads = 7464 MHz

That's even worse.

That was the cheapest way for Dell to fix the throttling and lack of power issue. They just reduced the power consumption of the Extreme CPUs by running them significantly slower when all 4 cores are fully loaded. The Dell marketing department will be patting themselves on the back again. "How about we reduce the CPU speed and tell users it is a throttling fix? Great idea, brilliant. Bonuses for all!"

 

Haha Dell are awful

Anyway, im trying to do a cinebench comparison benchmark with a 15x multi against a 24x multi, however the highest that i can set my multiplier on throttlestop is only 16? Any ideas?

 

setting to 16 is telling to use the max mutli.

to set your multi you have to right click the middle part of ts and another menu will pop up, then set your multi from there.

 

Just ran 3dmark vantage, result was 6929. I used TS to set the CPU to 25 across the board the 260 was set to 650/1050/1575. This is way better that A05 Bios I was using. I could probably get better, but I don't want to fry anything.

 

I don't know what you ask me but usually it took me 2 and half hour to formatted and install all the driver.

 

I was not being serious.

It seems that this bios did speed things up. The XM users still need to use TS, but it would seem that the rest of the world was saved

 

I'm still running A01. Am I going to have issues installing straight to A08?

EDIT:
Release notes say I need A02. Will this auto install before it installs A08? Or will I need to download that separately. The wording sounds like it will handle it by itself, but you never know...

 

wow, should have no problems doing so, but i suggest updating the all the drivers too.

 

Here are my 3dmarkvantage and wprime score. Setting are x27(96/86) and gpu at 850/1050.

3dmarkvantage: http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1346/3dmarkvantagez.jpg
Wprime: http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/7276/wprime.jpg

Wprime the cpu was set to x26

 

ryanwhite123: To make a fair comparison all you have to do is open up ThrottleStop, right click on it and set your turbo multipliers like this:

Bios A07 Simulation
24, 24, 24, 24

Bios A08 Simulation
24, 23, 17, 17

That way you can do a fair comparison of performance without having to switch the bios back and forth to see which one is better. I'll give you a hint. A07 should be faster for any benchmark.

 

this is sad just did a wprime run. 1 with 25 across and the other 25-24-18-18

 

I'm TS noob. I just updated to A08. What settings should I use to have optimal CPU performance. It's currently at 24,23,17,17. Is this the max I can run or should I make changes?

 

According to the Release Notes, yes.

http://ftp.us.dell.com/bios/M15x A08 release notes.pdf
To update to this BIOS your system must have BIOS A02 or later. If your
system does not meet this requirement, you will be updated to BIOS A02 and
then will be updated to BIOS A08.

If this means that you're going to have to run the updater twice or something, I've got no idea. But I'm sure the Updater will tell you what it's going to do when you run it.

 

you can use ts to bring the multii back up to how it was before at 24-24-24-24.

 

Thanks, I was just making sure before I made the changes and put myself in a situation I can't get out of. Also, the "Set Multi" is @ 16. Which I'm assuming is fine and everything else is deselected except EIST and Set Multiplier

 

HOLY JEEZ...You change your avatar more than you change boxers...lolz..


Back on topic...THIS IS SAD!. The new bios is killing the reason to upgrade to the XM series you lost 33% of your clock speed due to the new bios. Dell needs to do something about this and not just patch the problem by limiting performance drastically.

At least we can still use TS and Riva tuner to lock in the clock rates but that is still a half as* solution for a high end product

 

yeah alot of testing is still needed but this is sad, they took away everything that was good with having a extreme cpu.

 

I haven't test games, but my system running is different, compare with A07. New thing is sweet.

What do you mean?

 

I agree, you're better off saving your money and sticking with the 840

 

For a Core i CPU, the Set Multiplier should be set to 1 more than your default multiplier. If the default is 15 like it is in a 920XM then a setting of 16 tells the CPU you want to use the default multiplier plus as much turbo boost as the CPU is willing to give you. If you right click on ThrottleStop you can have a look at how much turbo boost you can expect to get. With an Extreme CPU, you can adjust the maximum turbo boost higher.

You just need to use ThrottleStop to get all the lost performance back when you have a 920XM and adjust your turbo multipliers to be the same across the board like they used to be in bios A07. For non-Extreme CPUs, this bios upgrade is great.

 

I don't think the A08 bio have any affect on the 740/840 cpu. The only benefit is the touchpad is fix.

 

hey uncle webb can you take a look a the screen shots i posted in the last page.

 

I have just ran some tests from a fresh restart, and then used TS to set the multipliers at 24x to test again. Should i run the tests again with your recommend settings or will it not make a difference considering the order than i done it in?

I have attached my first set of results. From cinebench the difference in clock speeds makes 8-12%.