AW M15x Throttling Issue Investigation - Stock clocks and overclocked.

There, did some work
Bought an energy monitor and took a total of five pictures.

The two first correspond to my system equipped with I7 720qm, 4gb RAM, 260M GTX, respectively:

Idle: http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/615/720qmidle.jpg
Ingame default clocks: http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5284/720qmingame.jpg

The three next picture my system equipped with the I7 920xm, 4gb RAM, 260M GTX, respectively:

Idle: http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/1606/920xmidle.jpg
Ingame default clocks: http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8226/920xmingamedefaultclock.jpg
Ingame lag clocks: http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1503/920xmingamelag.jpg

Voila

 

Nice post thenzfarmer. +rep for that one.

130 watts looks like its almost maxing out the a/c adapter... But as 5150joker tried getting the m17x adapter and still throttling occurs... i'm not sure its a power issue.

I think the m15x coupled with the 260m/powermizer makes it throttle down based off the watts its drawing rather than the temps the system is reaching.

Would be cool if we can pin-point just at what wattage the throttling occurs... to verify this theory. Would be cool but i don't have my 260m anymore or a kill-a-watt meter for that matter...

 

Thanks
The highest it went is 136 watts but even that is below the 150W adapter capacity. Is the BIOS capable of monitoring a system's consumption? If so, perhaps it set a cap on the wattage the system can pump.
It isn't temperature related, GPU wise since on the last pick, the temperature is 53 degrees. So either it is CPU temp, wattage or a combination of both, I'll try and pinpoint where it occurs.

Edit: The following pic is with the 920xm and Riva tuner enabled. Default clocks are maintained but for some reason, wattage doesn't cross the 110 mark.
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7196/920xmrivatuner.jpg

 

very nice indeed. Ideally you would have an oscilloscope, with the help of which you could actually have a graph plotted and see the value when it throttles with some higher accuracy. I think the watt meter will not be able to react fast enough to the peaks.

Also, on another note, I bought a generic dell 150W supply. (like this one DELL 150W AC Adapter DP/N: N3834 Model: PA-1151-06D - eBay (item 250673478290 end time Aug-01-10 15:06:20 PDT)) and it worked fine until I went into my first gaming session. I noticed that the power supply fried just when the laptop went into hibernation because the battery run out of juice

And yes, the BIOS should be able to monitor the amount of current the laptop is drawing

 

If my theory was right.. it would mean the bios wouldn't let the power supply brick fry if its capping the amount of wattage being drawn from it... which clearly didn't happen in your case :s

But it can also be a physical flaw with that particular power supply that caused it to fry... after all .. power supplies are amoung one of the first things to fry without warning or reason... my modem's power supply burnt out twice on me in 1 year... and my old hp power supply fried also for no particular reason after i'd say.. 6-8 months? They're pretty fragile..

 

well then all the 920 owners need now are larger power supply bricks and this issues would be null.

 

most likely the generic dell 150W was crappy and that's why it burned out. Clearly, one can see though, that a 150W brick is a little too low. Generic PSU with the same ratings should be able to handle the laptop on full performance.

 

I just obtained different results, the computer throttles even around 118W. Might be the video driver. I'll re-install the dell default driver and edit this post once more testing has been done.
The video I posted on this link shows variation in fps//variation in Watts.
You'll need good eyes though!
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8459/mymovie.mp4

 

Ok, I only saw throttling on my games while playing GTA IV LCS. Beside this problem there's another one afflicting my notebook which I already related here on previous posts and that happened again today.

I powered up my M15X, logged in windows 7 and started mass effect 2. The game was running really really bad. So I quit it and look at gpuz sensors only to find out the clocks reduced to 383/767/301 just like they were my default clocks.

So here's what I did after noticing this: started mass effect 2 again (the fps are really low), unplug the ac adapter, plug it back in and voila! the game is running smooth again. Then I quit to windows, take a look at gpuz sensors again and its right back to 550/1350/950.

I don't have Fusion installed 'cause I think CC is way too buggy, but I always keep my windows 7 power plan set to high performance. I have the stealth indicator program too and it showed my AW was not in stealth mode anytime since I turned it on.

Any suggestions?


EDIT: Just downloaded Command Center and will test it with high performance enabled to see if it fixes my problem.

EDIT 2: As expected, installing AW Command Center didn't work at all to solve my issue, so i just uninstalled it.

 

hey, I think the problem might actually be the refresh rate of the kill-a-watt. You would have to have a bigger sample rate (e.g. 2-5 times a second) to have more accurate and reliable results.

 

Yep, that would make the readings far more accurate.
Went for value for money

 

Well, there you go.
Riva Tuner enabled to play my games in peace and there's the result.
150 Watts stable!

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2889/150watts.jpg

 

Nice find. Do you have any USB devices plugged in?

 

That's nice! Wouldn't prolonged use at that wattage be dangerous to the PSU though?

 

A 150 watt adapter is rated to deliver 150 watts DC to your laptop continuously or else it shouldn't get that rating. A Kill-a-Watt or similar device is measuring watts AC from the wall so when you pull 150 watts from the wall you might only be getting 130 watts DC from your adapter while the other 20 watts is lost to heat. Most Dell adapters will shut down before they blow up. If this ever happens then you need to power cycle it by unplugging it and plugging it back in to the wall.

 

Not being worried about the PSU, I still think that if it sticks to 150, the laptop wants to draw more but is limited to what the PSU can deliver/draw from the power socket.

 

Are you using a USB mouse a the time? If not try that.. and if u have a USB hard drive plug that too.. matter of fact use all ur usb ports I would be curious to see the result.

 

all my ports can be used at the same time and i don't see any problems

 

Yup, all Usb/e-sata ports in use, G9X mouse, G35 headset and external HDD.

 

Hi everyone ! my M15X ( Core 720Q , GTX 260M ) , i'm playing Crysis on 1 hour and everything going very smooth ( 25 to 30 fps ) my settings is all very high (but shader is high ) . But when i have a mission to rescue a hostage in the school i got a problem , when i go inside a school the game begin stuttering and fps drop like a slide show ( 1 ~ 2 fps ) , when i'm outside it's up to 25 ~ 30 fps again ??? the problem occur again in other mission like : in the Tunel on Relic , in the Space Ship on Core ...and final mission when i'm insde a cabin of US Ship .

It's throttle right ???? other games run smooth ??? ( Star Craft 2 is very fine )

Sorry for my english because i'm forein ! please help.

 

you need to make a gpu-z log when playing games. but more then likely it is throttling.

 

Some screenshots of throttling while running various games (in bios A06, they will want you to update to the latest version when troubleshooting)

 

nice screen shots bro that would defiantly prove anyone's points with proving throttling

 

when will they fix the problem :S

 

*waves hands*
"these are not the droids you are looking for"
"move along"

/sigh
it kind of feels like that ey?

 

yeah just spoke with tech support no official word on date of fix.

 

Yep no official word. Could be months. I'm just glad they gave me what i wanted, and over-nighted me a HD5850, should be here tomorrow.

 

I say again.. They truly are working on it. I cannot say details but I know first hand and there is some progress. I know its annoying and everyone wants it fixed now, however it still needs to be actually fixed, no bandaids, and some engineering. So we all gota wait.

 

There's 173 pages so I'd appreciate if someone summarized.

I ordered a decked out m15x last week and am just hearing about this issue. Would I only encounter the issue when overclocking to the max? What exactly IS the issue? I play WoW, SC2, TF2, and L4D2. Are these games an issue? Any explanations would be much appreciated.

On an unrelated note: I was looking @ the Sager NP8690 and even though its got a better video card (GTX 285M) it seems to have lower benchmark scores than the Alienware M15x's GTX 260m. Am I correct in this? Should I cancel my alienware and order the sager?

 

to sum it up if you got 260m with i7 you will have throttling. any other card will be fine. and yes most of the games you mentioned are affected by it. if you get a new system get it with 5850, it has higher clocks and is cheaper and is not affected by this.

 

What exactly is throttling? If that was the case, wouldn't it make all of the games unplayable? How could alienware m15x's be getting positive reviews with that setup? Everything I've read says the nvidia in the m15x is substantially better than the radeon.

 

Throttling is when when the GPU, and CPU reduce clock speeds for power-saving or temperature threshold purposes. Basically, the GTX260m is downclocking (throttling) when it should not be, while your playing, reducing framerate and providing a horrible gaming experience. The 5850 does not have the throttling issue (clocks stay high when your gaming, not dropping) so users are switching to it. You should call dell and switch your 260m for a 5850 asap if you just ordered it.

 

Should I scrap it and get the Sager 8690? Can anyone give me some 3ds06 numbers on the radeon? HOW is the m15x getting positive reviews if this is the issue?

 

@IntenseIGFX
If you aren't believing "whole community of notebook nuts" about the throttling issue, there is not much we can show. By benchmarking tools like the one you mentioned, we can only analyze the overall/average performance. But the real issue here isn't about average. If the game freezes(0 fps? ) for a second, then goes at 120fps for a few seconds then freezes for a few seconds again, you'll probably get an average value of 60fps, which is practically high(as it is above the "optimum point" = 30fps).
There are some "testing results" and screen shots of stuttering moments in the first page, they would help you a lot more than 3ds.

 

Don't believe everything you read. Some very professional review organizations have not had the guts to say a single negative thing about Dell and their throttling laptops. The result is that Dell has been building one throttling laptop model after another for the last 2 years. The good news is that Dell is slowly coming to their senses and trying to fix this problem.

At the moment, no matter what performance laptop you buy from Dell, step 1 has to be for you to thoroughly test it for any signs of throttling as soon as you get it. Synthetic tests like Prime95 and Furmark will quickly expose any problems but it's also a good idea to run some log files of your computer's performance while gaming.

GPU-Z is a good program to log the performance of your GPU and ThrottleStop can be used to monitor the performance of your CPU.

 

I wouldnt worry too much.. they are in the process of fixing the issue for this.. and worst case if they dont you will be able to get a replacement ATi card to resolve the issue. I personally would keep the m15x but that is because I have had some horror stories in dealing with Sager support.

 

So is there a chance in hell that I'll get a working system from Alienware?

Also, its been 10 months since this post was made. Has everyone who bought their alienware recently also had this issue? Are they sending out the bigger power bricks by default now?

 

Don't worry, if you face problems, just call them and they will handle it this way or that way. In case of throttling issues, you can always demand the "faulty" 260m be replaced by 5850, which will be a real upgrade in fact.

I don't know where did you read that 260m better than 5850 but thats nowhere being true. Mobility HD5850 is WAY beyond of 260m. You can compare both desktop or laptop models and you'll see that fact.

 

Can someone please get me some 3ds06 benchmark scores of similar configurations (one with 260 other with 5850)?

 

No.. they are working on fixing it by other means.. bios etc. Hopefully that will do teh trick. Based on some of the other testing in this thread recently that is looking more and more to be the case but only time will tell.

 

Alienware M15x BIOS Correction - Direct2Dell - Direct2Dell - Dell Community

In january they put out a new bios update. It caused problems with some of the laptops, but according to tech support that new bios is on all of the new alienware laptops.

 

Drivers & Downloads

Went to m15x bios and apparently the newest one was released 5/24/10...

 

AMD ATI Radeon HD 5850 Performance Review - HotHardware
This is Crysis performance comparision for 5850. Note that this is desktop version of 5850 however as you can see 5850 isn't even being compared to 260, its being compared to higher models like 285/295. You can clearly see 5850 beats 285 in "in-game-performance".
AMD ATI Radeon HD 5850 Performance Review - HotHardware
Here is 3d Mark Vantage from the same review for 5850.

Also here are the Mobility HD5850 scores from several benchmarks.
Notebookcheck: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5850
And here are GTX 260M scores for the same test:
Notebookcheck: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M

To summarize those pages:
Mobility HD5850 vs. GTX 260M
3D Mark 03: 29063 29794
3D Mark 05: 15710 14773
3D Mark 06: 09949 10177
3D Vantage: 05821 04911
Windows 7 Experience Index: 7 6
Cinebench R11.5: 27 28

As you can see 5850 clearly aces 260m in the majority of tests, and in the field it can't "ace" is due to "physx" support but still loses with only a few points.

The main points why make me to believe Mobility HD5850 is far superior to GTX 260m are:
*5850 supports DX11 while 260m supports DX10.
*5850 is 1GB GDDR5 while 260m is 1GB GDDR3. (It is a HUGE diffrence)
*5850 supports Shader Model 5.0 while 260m supports Shader Model 4.0.
*5850 is newer and cheaper while 260m is older and expensive
*5850 has better scores while 260m has lower scores(with and without throttling).
*5850 uses less power while 260m uses a lot.
*5850 is more silent and cooler while 260m sometimes heat up(nothing alienware fans can't handle but).

Anything else? Just read the last two links I posted, they explain A LOT.

 

There is no public fix for this yet ...

I feel the need to use this time to tell people ..

There is a fix being worked on... I have witnessed its progress. I cannot say any more then that as I gave me word but I assure you all there is GREAT progress. I PROMISE!

I had to write this... too many people are starting to give up. Sorry

 

well here's mine with the 260

personally i can wait a while more. Part of me is relieved in fact! At least now they're admitting it's an issue. We're on the home stretch

 

All of the real world situations I have found where these were compared .. the 260 comes out on top. Synth tests, use features that currently arnt used in all games ie DX 11 etc.. many still play DX9 and DX10 games..
I assume you have a ati in ur config..

From my experience I have had color and image issues with ati cards, also in the gaming dev and animation industry they usually all prefer nvidia.

Just my two cents

 

The NVIDIA has much better numbers except for the core speed. Also, the benchmark numbers were about even. There were cases where the NVIDIA won and cases where the ATI won. The nvidia has a much faster shader speed, and also has 256 bit memory bus width. What does that mean?

 

@DeeX
This has changed my friend. If that was 1 year ago, my blood had nVidia's green and black.
I'm note sure which real world situations you are referring to but all the in game FPS logs for mobility 5850 and 260m I have seen so far, has 5850 winning.
But you have one big solid point about ATI. The issues you have mentioned.. Well, ATI is known for its bad drivers but they have gone under a whole rebuilding process after AMD bought them and now that change is showing up. And you aren't so right about gaming dev and animation industry.. ATI FirePro (not radeon) is the preferred series. PLUS ATI has already gifted their new DX11 cards to game developers(biggiest ones are Ubisoft[most specifically Ubisoft Paris] and Crytek AFAIK) which means new games are being specially optimized for ATI cards, just like what was done in past for nVidia. If you are buying your card for like 4-5 years later, its most likely nVidia will take over again but if you are buying it to use it in the next 3 years, ATI.
Maybe when nVidia starts to focus on stuff other than Tesla systems, we can see our good ol' GeForces again.

@IntenseIGFX
The amount of tests that 260m and 5850 wins are equal. However if you check the score ratios, 5850 atleast has 1000 point diffrence in average when it wins, while 260m wins by around 100-500 points.
I don't know how detailed you checked the page but the diffrence isn't just core. 260m has 112 unified rendering pipelines while 5850 has 800 unified rendering pipelines. 260m has 754m transistors while 5850 has 1040m transistors. 260m has a current consumption of 75watts where 5850 has a current consumption of 39watts. IMO the huge diffrence between rendering pipelines and also current consumption are just huge. I have some information on memory bus width but I may be wrong on it so it will be better if somebody of more experience can explain it.

 

Will we wait 'til the end of the year? If so, I'd rather buy a 5850 or a 5870 now. Oh, btw, does anyone know if the 5870's power consumption is bigger than the 260's? Is it risky to use it with the 150W default power brick that comes with the M15X?

 

Well my comments were based on two things.. I have tried ATI cards over and over and to me I notice the image and color difference. I assume is the drivers perhaps.
As far as industry.. I go to FullSail University and I am around many industry people.
They all use nVidia Quadro or Geforce. Some of these peeps have worked on some major motion pictures and worked on some decent games. I dunno..

Yes there is a Professional Dev line from ATI but all would agree that it isnt good. Their consumer line is better... Dont just take my word for it read around.. heres just one random article

Nvidia Quadro FX vs. ATI FirePro: Professional Graphics Accelerators Roundup (page 24) - X-bit labs

However with all that said .. I never intended for my opinion to start an arguement .. I dont fanboy up .. I would use a ATI if I had to, I just simply prefer nvidia from my experiences and from observations etc.