AW M15x Throttling Issue Investigation - Stock clocks and overclocked.

Its a better performer period and a great overclocker as well ... It has DX11 support and overall its just a great card...

I understand some people want Nvidia but this throttling thing has been going on forever and they are never going to fix it as they dont see it being an issue...

They should offer every single M15x owner that wants a 5850 the option to have one but well yeah we know how well that will go over...

Only reason i even bought the M15x was i knew the machine did not throttle with the ATI...

 

Well a Dell customer support agent will be calling me on monday so do you think i should press for an exchange? Would that also sort out my heat issues as my 260m runs at 60 degrees + on idle and 80+ during games.

 

The card will hit close to that temp in games give or take some degrees and depending on the paste job etc but idle temps wont be 60 unless it was not put together properly... I idle around 47ish give or take ambient temps...

My card is Overclocked by a decent margin and i hit 82 while playing some intense games but in the low 70s on others... At stock clocks my temps would be marginally lower though...


Would i push for the exchange ? Heck yeah i would .... I would not tolerate for one second all the stuff the Nvidia guys have had to deal with and the work arounds just to try and enjoy a machine...

I had massive issues with my M17x and the Nvidia cards i cringe even thinking about it ....

 

Ok, i'm gonna do that then. Hopefully they'll sort me out with that and a 9 cell battery for my M15X. I'm happy to pay the excess, but they should give me a discount really.

If they do though, is a different matter altogether.

 

Ok, so i spoke to the Dell dudes.

They want me to do some Powermizer thing. Doesn't look like it's a program, just a setup in power management which they said they have had some success with issues like mine.

I'm gonna try it, but i doubt it will do anything. They said that they could exchange my 260m for the ATI 5850, but they want me to try this first.

So, when it doesn't work (lol), i'm gonna push for the ATI card. Quadzilla, are you sure that there's no issue with that card. Because the guy said there have been some issues with ATI cards and throttling, but they were on the M17x, not the M15x. I'm not sure if that's true, but whatever.

Thanks

 

So they've given me the ATI 1GB 5850 GDDR5 which should be delivered and installed tomorrow

This should now work excellently, right?

 

I have had 0 issues with throttling on my machine so you should be very happy ... Trust me when i say if i was throttling or had any other major problems for that matter i would be vocal about it ...

 

Good!

Well, heres hoping. I'll let you know tomorrow evening.

In any case, you and a few others are the ones who basically got me this sorted with the information you gave me, and i can't thank you all enough. I can't wait to actually start gaming properly on it now. It's a complete relief

Thanks!!!

 

I wish I wanted ATI but I would rather the nvidia

Also here is a disturbing article;
Dell faces fresh threat from old PC failures - Jul. 1, 2010

Apparently Dell had some defective comps for years and kept selling them, obviously ignoring the issue.

 

So quad when you run furmark for 10 - 20 mins there is 100% no throttling?
Or are you just saying you have not experienced any throttling with your games. I ask because there are some variables to throttling, for one the spec, and two the bios version. A05 and higher is more sensitive. Lastly the game your are playing, example World of Warcraft for me throttles no matter what on A05 and higher. Where as Cod4 does it only a certain times and not all time.
Technically the 5850 is a downgrade, so I would make sure it doesn't throttle there. From my understanding this will only reduce your power consumption not eliminate the throttling.

This was also directed to teh d00d that just swapped for the 5850.

 

I've only seen people speak well of the 5850. Plus, it's a better card it seems. Why do you say it's a downgrade?

The benchmarks show the ATI to have a better performance in games and i've heard no problems of the throttling we have come to know so well with the 260m.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m15x/496817-any-throttling-issue-m15x-ati-5850-a.html

But just to confirm, Quad, my processor is the i7 720QM 1.6 - This will be fine, right? I think it will be, but i wasn't sure if my processor was taken into consideration.

 

nvidia cards cost more because its nvidia hype. ati doesn't hype as much so they pass the savings onto us.

 

When i say 0 i mean 0 period everywhere including Furmark which i have run many times while redoing my paste and testing my Overclocks etc....

When i saw your comment earlier that you want Nvidia over ATI even though you are clearly suffering it just boggled my mind....

Oh ill keep Nvidia and suffer its ok and then a sad face behind it.... i think some of you are waiting for some magical fix that is never going to happen... I can understand brand loyalty when it comes to machines that work properly but if you can have ATI and your machine just works and with Nvidia it is just broken i dont think the choice is difficult to make ....

 

If you looked in my Sig i am running an i7 820 so if i am not having problems then your chances are even less likely lol...

 

I thought so. Thanks for all the advice, man. Honestly, i do appreciate it.

Will keep you posted tomorrow. Surely, if I can get an exchange to the ATI everyone should be able to?

To those who are having issues: How come you aren't asking for a replacement like i did? It only took 2 phone calls. The guy was quite nice and assisted me fully, so as long as you can give the information that i did regarding the evidence, you should get the same result. Does the fix on page 1 of this thread completely fix the problem? I wasn't able to get it working. Just out of interest

My faith in Dell is pretty much restored. I may be a bit more cautious in future when buying one, but they helped me out so i'm happy.

Now we'll just see how the card performs.

 

I hope all you guys have the chance to switch to ATI if you want to... Some may not just out of principal or some other reason but i would advise anyone displeased with the 260m and throttling to give them a call...

 

called Dell just now to complain about the throttling with my GTX 260m... and after about a 30min convo, the tech guy i spoke to said he would most def NOT DOWNGRADE my gpu to the ati 5850m, and would instead UPGRADE to an ati 5970m for free, as long as he sees my gpu throttle during his diagnostic tests. ( even though i see it as a SOLID upgrade)

Now this sounds pretty crazy, and too good to be true? i didnt even know the 5970m was out and available? He said i would have to change motherboard to get that card though, but it would be included since the 260m is defective and causes throttling ( if again, he sees that it does). also mentioned my other options were the 280m. Now either this guy is on crack, or Dell only offers these cards to customers who complain? im not quite sure.... but im keeping my fingers crossed!

I gotta call him back directly and hes going to run the tests remotely. Man oh man hope it all works out! I even did a quick search on the 5970m.... i didnt find anything.. he said dell just got them 2 weeks ago... bope :S ( i live in Canada)

 

Yes that guy has 0 clue...

There is no new motherboard nor 5970m .... The best card you can put into the M15x is the 5850 from Dell which is just an underclocked 5870...

They will not put the 280m in either since it exceeds the TDP and you will have the same issues if not more switching to a power hungrier Nvidia card....

Your best bet is to just call back and talk to someone who hopefully knows what the heck they are talking about....

 

Thats what i thought...but i even CLEARLY specified... " are you sure you're not talking about a 5870m? and hes like yes, we dont offer that card we just got the 5970m".... I'm like i highly doubt it... and he said " well thats what i see available here"... anyways... wtv the case.. i was actually calling to convince them to give me the 5850m since it is a "downgrade" pricewise... and he was insisting he would most definately NOT downgrade me to a lower priced gpu.. and only UPGRADE me.. as that is dell's policy ? Who knows.. but im going to stick with this idiot and call him back

 

Considering they are doing it for PhilUK up above they certainly can for you and i believe they have for others on here...

I dont believe your asking for some type of compensation plus the new card you just want the new card and most of all a machine that is trouble free(for the most part)...

 

btw.. that desktop you got.. is BEAST

 

Yea i can definately say that they did it for me. The technician is coming out to me tomorrow to fit it.

I'm unaware that there is a 5870 available. The guy said they can only replace it with what they have advertised as available on the customisation screen for the M15x.

I really hope that you do get a replacement. If my case brings hope and a fix to others here, it's the least i can do.

Keep on at them. Maybe this guy will authorise a SLI board with 2 unreleased 470m's!!!

 

lol... just curious... what happened exactly.... you told them about the throttling... they ran their diagnostics tests remotely...and bingo!? they noticed it did in fact throttle...and they said theyre going to send a tech to install the 5850m free of charge for you? Any recomendations on what i should say/do? Just wanna make sure everything goes smoothly.

 

Ok. Here's what happened.

I called up. I said that i got this laptop in January and i've had problems with it ever since. I have been waiting and waiting for fixes with driver releases etc and nothing has worked. I then explained that the system has extensive throttling issues.

I stated that I play a game awesomely for 10 minutes then it drops from 40-60 fps to 10-20 due to the throttling. I've used GPU-Z, Furmark etc and have evidence to back this claim up and used Rivatuner, Ntune and everything, to fix it. Nothing works.

I explained that there's so much stuff about it online and as one example 150 pages on notebookreview.com dedicated to this issue. That there is evidence and proof that this is an issue and i'm calling to ask about a fix that you can help me with to get this sorted (I think this is important as it shows that you want to get assistance).

They said they haven't really heard of this issue lol.. but still, they asked me to do some stuff. Like download this and that to check stuff. I knew it wouldn't work, it was similiar to what i'd already done, same different program but i done it anyway. It didn't work. I then called them back, they asked me to do something else which they've heard of to fix it. I then brought up the possibility of exchanging the card for another brand if it doesn't work. The ATI 5850. While stating that I really want to keep the card as it's better, but i really also want to be able to play games on a gaming machine. Knowing that the ATI card is in fact as good and supports DX11 is irrelevant. Dell sees it as cheaper - therefore a downgrade.

I said i'm willing to just do a straight swap, i don't want a refund, i just want the card if their 'fixes' don't work. I also said i'd bought 4 systems from Dell in the last 5 years, plus my family all buy Dell and it would be great if they could sort it out for me if it came to it as i'm a good customer.

So i got off the phone from them and said i'd do what they asked. Some power management setting made by Nvidia called Powermizer. I had a look at it and gave it a shot, even though i knew it wouldn't work, just thought i'd see, but yea, i called them back an hour later, told them it didn't work, told them i was promised a replacement in the case of nothing working and they then went to consulte a manager or whoever.

They came back and asked me what Windows Experience Index score my GPU gets. I told them 6.8 or 6.9, can't remember right now. He asked me if it lowers during games when i notice the fps drop, i said yes. And he said Okay, we'll send it out and get a technician to install it tomorrow. Confirmed my name, address and phone number and that was it. No diagnostics, no arguing, nothing. Nice guy actually, he did seem to want to help.

I think it helps to come across as if you really know what you're talking about, or can pretend to (like me ). I said i consulted a friend of mine who is a graduate and professional IT manager who confirmed my evidence. Be assertive and confident.

In the UK we have a law called the 'Sale of Goods Act'. Which basically protects the consumer against products that are sold to you that don't work or don't work as intended. products are also protected for 5/6 years and if they break down regardless of warranty within that period you can claim a refund, replacement or repair if it wasn't down to you. Most companies will try to tell you that you are out of warranty and that's it and also try to sell you warranty for silly prices when we have this law, but that's a different issue altogether. But as soon as you talk about the sale of goods act, they do as you say. Or you take them to court and get it sorted. Normally they abide after that. Dell were really good but if i would have been denied i would have gone on about that and taken it further if need be because this 260m stuff just isn't right.

Maybe checking if you have a law like this in your country would be valuable. In the UK we have consumer websites run by the government and phone numbers that we can call. Check it out.

For all the UK folks, here's some information on the Sale of Goods Act - Use it for ALL out of warranty claims Call them up, they'll give you advice on all your consumer rights in situations like these.

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/know-your-rights/SGAknowyourrights/

If you have any more questions, just ask

 

lol lucky. i wish i had a 5970m being installed in my M15x

 

So i couldn't resist calling another rep last night after i put everything back to stock on my system. I didn't call the first idiot i spoke to, because i wanted to hear what another rep would tell me. He quickly said hes going to have to connect remotely. I said sure. He ran 3d mark 06, and opened up HW monitor (when i already told him i know for a fact the card is not overheating and throttling down because of it.. but rather for conflicting issues with the gtx 260m and such...) So he fired up 3d mark 06. ran beautifully. then checked the temps.. max temp was 64. He then tells me there is nothing wrong with my system and that its working how its supposed to. I started by saying that what he did was a lame excuse for a disgnotic test. He ran a 4yr old benchmark, and then checked the temps of the gpu, when the problem isnt the temperatures of the card, but rather the clocks of the gpu throttling down for no reason. I asked if i can take control of the system, and he let me.

I actually came on this site and showed him the 153 pages of this thread, and that it was a well known issue, that dell hasn't resolved in over 1 yr. he denied it saying if it was a big issue, he would have heard about it before. Furious by now, i ran OCCT and Furmark, fired up gpuz, and SHOWED HIM the exact throttling i was talking about. He dismissed it saying furmark isn't one of the programs they use for diagnostic tests and therefore the results were invalid.

I let him have it for about 10 minutes after that to blow off some steam and for wasting about hr of my time and hung up. i would've asked for his superiors but this was at 2am last night, and i had to wake up at 5:15am this morning for work, so i just gave up. When i get home from work today i'll be sure to call back the first guy i spoke to and see what he tells me.


Also, which games are known for throttling so i can show those dumb reps that it DOES throttle, in real games as well (besides gta iv) Much thanks to those who can list me some games in which it happens the most.

 

Try Borderlands. That was for me the worst case of throttling. It was very periodic and annoying. Also L4D2 did throttle for me as well.

 

L4D2. Man, it won't be an easy thing to achieve but stay cool while in touch with them (tech guys).
They follow protocol because they don't know different.
After two months of complaints I got asked today to send them proof of overheating and what the exact problem was...
They have to clue and it gets tiring.
Since they destroyed my system when I sent it back (extratight screws, bent coolers, missing screws and abusive amounts of paste) I want the system replaced altogether. So I might press for an M17X.
Keep on trying

 

Hold the phones! This week I have a major breakthrough. I have been able to get in contact with TWO people from engineering for AW/Dell Gaming. However I cannot give out their contact info.

But I will say that it is most certain that they are going to be reading this thread.

Over and over again from them they tell me they had no idea this was an issue..

Another misconception they had was that this happens when the CPU cores hit 100% which usually doesnt happen. However we all know this is not the case.
Plus I have been able to prove this issue as I have a newly exchanged system with the same specs and throttling still happens as expected.

So I would encourage anyone that experiences throttling to post once again.
Clearly it seems this happens mostly with 920XM procs with a 260...
However if it happens with furmark or in realworld with lower procs we want to know!

PLEASE POST, YOU ARE BEING WATCHED!

 

yes, it happens with my 720 to
i called dell today to replace my screen and gpu fan and they will change me the gpu, because I've told they what happened when the processor and the card are working with a high charge, when the technician come i will show him that this will continue happening with the nvidia card, I hope he change it for the ati 5850

 

I can't install the ATI catalyst center - That is the one with the drivers in it right? I need that because it contains the drivers?

The graphics card is only recognised as - VGA display adapter. It isn't recognising it as the ATI 1GB 5850. And when i download the catalyst center or the suite thingie it goes super fast through it and gives me some error message with nothing changing,or is speeds through analysing' quickly and gets stuck on Install.

Any ideas what this is and how to fix it?

 

you can see it on the owners thread

 

See what? About the ATI center thingie?

 

How do I undo the throttling fix mentioned in this thread. I reversed the Riva Steps and uninstalled it. Then I stopped using Throttlestop.
But now my games are locked at 383Mhz for the gpu clock.. it wont go up to 550 at all now. Someone please help. Thanks.

 

Phil if you have the latest mobility(make sure they are the mobile versions) ATI 10.6s after trying to run the driver go into the ATI folder on your C: drive then find the Config folder , inside that there is a file called installmanager.cfg, open that with notepad and find the line that says workaroundinstall=False and change it to True then hit save then rerun the setup file and you will be golden...

 

Ok, i changed that. It's allowed me to install the CCC. But nothing happened after that.

I can't seem to get the stupid drivers on my card.

 

Ok so i spoke with a dell rep doing countless things to try and solve the issue ( i knew they wouldnt work) and spoke with them for about 2hours.... The tech was very helpful and she said she will contact stage 3 support techs and give them the link to this thread that she noted down. They will do some research and testing, and get back to me on thursday. So yes they will most definately be reading these forums...

I hope they will solve the issues once and for all..

 

1. turn off throttlestop
2. uninstall riva tuner
3. reboot
4. run cc cleaner
5. uninstall gpu drivers in control panel/programs and features/Nvidia Drivers
6. reboot.
7. Run CC cleaner
8. Re-install drivers ( the latest one from dell.com if you plan on getting tech support)
9. Shut-Down, and do a bios reset.

That should solve everything. Ok so its a little overkill, but you avoid any problems whatsoever that way if you used NST, unsintall that also ( just the performance tab is adequate, listed in control panel)

 

Hmm i dont understand that because that is the way to install it...

Are you sure you downloaded the Mobility 10.6 ???

You can also do a manual install through the device manager by pointing directly to the INF..

if not Just download the Dell driver for now then so you can get the card working properly...



Did you do a fresh OS install after you got the new card ?.... If it is showing up as VGA in the device manager everything should work...

 

what i your driver right now? how did you uninstall your original driver? ati drivers are real finicky and if the old driver isn't uninstalled correctly the new one won't install.

 

He came from the Nvidia card and it looks like he was trying to go straight to the 10.6 which should be fine....

I have done fresh installs and went straight to the modded driver with 0 issues so im not sure whats going on other then he has the wrong 10.6s...


I uploaded the 10.6s for someone awhile ago that was having problems getting them to work and here is the link if you want to give these a try....

These are ready to go and all you need to do is run setup..


http://www.sendspace.com/file/i7k88w

 

From me experience with the 260m is one of i ordered too early but also one of relief that what i purchased has no sign of throttling. But in certain games there is slow down for a split second mainly borderlands and sometimes Mass Effect 2. i have run futuremark stock and oced without an inkling of throttling which is due to my system not causing the power supply to be maxxed unlike the 920 / 260m systems who have this problem ALOT.

 

Done it through the .inf.

Thanks a lot, again lol

 

It's actually running really well. It's normal to get the odd jump from 60 to 40, but generally it's hovering around on 60 frames on mediumish settings on Battlefield BC 2.

You're a legend, Quad. You're going in my will

 

Haha well im glad you got it working and ill be happy to be part of your will ...

 

When i get my replacement system i'll be sure to do the usual tests and post some screens for the thread. I won't be complaining to Dell themselves since i already have a 5870m but i'll at least contribute to this thread in case these "Techs" really do check this thread. =x

 

I added a new feature to ThrottleStop yesterday that lets you adjust the TDP/TDC turbo power limits on some CPUs. The Alienware M17x owners have had some significant improvements in performance while using this new feature. It should work on the i7-920/940XM Extreme CPU and it also works on some of the dual cores. I'm not sure about the i7-720/820QM yet.

If this works on the M15x and reduces throttling then post some pics.

Just right click on ThrottleStop and you should see a new menu item or two.

 

This graphics card really is performing for me.

Anyone with trouble really needs to make Dell give them one. It's the bomb!

 

I looked into getting the 260m replaced for an ATI and was denied here in europe. I was told that I have to wait for a BIOS update which apparently is in the works.

 

Still in the waiting!