M11xR2 XP?

I read on the forums R2 is completely incompatible with XP 64 bit due to drivers. However I just spoke with an Alienware representative and they told me for $59 they will connect to my computer (as well as be on the phone) during the entire setup and install XP and all related drivers. (They also mentioned for Ubuntu it would cost $200 - which isnt guaranteed to be as compatible as XP would be drivers wise)

Any thoughts on whether I should try this out? / If its possible for them its possible for me to do on my own. Or do Dell engineers customize the drivers for me (is that what I am paying for?)

 

Why dont you try asking for the xp drivers? or search the manufacturer's parts website for the xp drivers

 

Why on earth do you wanna run an obsolete OS that in 3-4 years will be basically not supported in general (xp)

Stick with Windows 7! You dont mention why you wanna run windows xp....

 

i installed xp on my r1 with no problems, just had to hunt for drivers. but for the r2 its not possible couse xp doesnt support graphics switching. (optimus)

 

Its a known fact that you get 30% more battery life on XP systems vs Windows 7 I can only assume the same for the R2 but maybe not. Also XP is much better networking wise. Windows 7/Vista generation added WAY too many unnecessary features (And yes I have my services.msc on TWEAKED settings by BlackViper). Also faster boot times (I will be getting SSD so its even faster then...)

Here are all the reasons: http://blog.laptopmag.com/stick-with-xp-windows-7-battery-life-worse-on-netbooks

Thats what I was lead to believe on these forums but Alienware assured me otherwise.

 

well maybe alienware didnt know what they were talking about lol. or me and the other people are wrong, but you could just try and install it yourself and see what happens =p

 

Lose Optimus, Run XP 64 (worst OS release ever!, so many bugs in 64 XP) and not have latest DirectX//driver/Video Game Support? I'm out! Let alone my DJ software is also built around 7 for video mixing now...

I'm no help on the original post, but I would be interested if anyone could ever get 100% bugfree XP run.

The world of software and developers programming today sadly revolve around Windows 7, and to step back with such an investment for me, just sounds like WAYYY too much headache.

MasivB, I think you may be nuts, but definitly a post to check back for, since not many have had any luck on the XP R2 (64 bit is another argument).

 

the only issue on the r1 is the inability to switch from integrated to discrete graphics, because its not supported by xp, so the only way to get things working is to change to discrete mode in the bios. and also, 3dmark06 scores are down by atleast 1k on windows xp for some odd reason. a few issues still need to be worked out on the r1, but i really doubt its possible to run xp on the r2

 

The article you linked that talked about XPvsW7 battery life used netbooks as an example. When you run it on a true laptop, Windows 7 actually has better battery life than Windows XP, because of its improved power management options.

You also mentioned that you would be getting an SSD... you definitely want Windows 7, because of TRIM support that isn't present in Windows XP. Without TRIM, your SSD performance will degrade over time, so you definitely want to use an OS with TRIM support.

 

Due to the lack of optimus support in XP the nvidia card will be running all the time idle which will kill your battery life. Also what kent said about trim.
However i did boot XP today on a spare older ssd and the almost 5 second boot times made it tempting to at least dual boot.

 

I wish you worked for AW Tech Support. They didn't tell me any of this. They said and I quote "The R2 gets ETA 3 1/2 of battery life. If you want more you can install XP. There will be no driver problems but for Ubuntu we cannot guarentee driver compatibility"
I guess I'm done getting advice from them unless I need a replacement or something.

 

I am very surprised Alienware Tech Support said anything about Windows XP.

It is not offered as an option on the Alienware M11x R1/R2, and is not a supported OS on their drivers page. They should not be telling customers to do anything with their laptops that isn't 100% supported by the company.

On a related note, why would you want to install WinXP on your laptop anyway? Unless you are running old hardware that is old/slow, Windows 7 is superior to Windows XP in every way possible.

 

Along with the reasons listed above (minus the SSD incompatibility) there is a whole load of networking features in the vista/7 OS releases... Long story short netcode is better in games on XP. This may sound stupid but I play at a competitive level in eSports (ESEA) and when using my M11x on the go I want the best possible

 

I too as a network admin would love to be able to run XP on my new m11x R2. Not having the ability to run XP unfortunately means this laptop will end up on the top shelf sooner than i thought. Sure part of me wanted a new laptop for speed/fun/features/portability/etc. but if it can't take the place of all my other old test laptops, if it's "powerful" hardware doesn't function like people expect it to, if it can't run XP (a far from useless/obsolete OS), etc etc... then why didn't i just buy a macbook or an ipad >_<

Would love to hear if anyone makes any progress with XP

 

What proof do you have of this? Not trying to be combative. I'm genuinely curious.

Aside from apparently ill-informed techs, Dell makes absolutely no pretensions that this system will run XP. If you need XP for IT purposes, you can install Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, or Ultimate and use the free Windows XP mode. Alternatively, if you have 7 Home Premium, you can use Virtualbox to install a plethora of older operating systems.

 

Exactly what is the limitation with the R1 vs. the R2 when it comes to switching? I understand the R1 can do it via Fn+F6, but why can the R2 not be given the option to do manual switching as well? I would assume it is firmware based. Not that any of us are capable of doing BIOS programming, but if it is possible a flood of emails asking for the capability might help.

Again, I am coming into this late, so if anything like this has been attempted, I apologize. Its in my nature to think of ways around a perceived wall and being I am waiting on my M11x R2 to arrive, I have little to limit myself on possibilities.

There is a flood of information on the net about the poor support of Optimus, along with the seemingly eerie silence from Nvidia when people ask about driver updates that 'optimize' Optimus. Is there a place I can go to see (R2 based of course) the list of drivers that have been tried both officially and unofficial hacks (unified driver architecture means occasionally compatible drivers between two very different products).

A few years ago, I remember having to use modified inf files with current driver releases due to the lack of support from Dell. Having seen a few references to that process already, I would like to find a list of drivers that have been tried, along with reasons that certain drivers failed so perhaps I can narrow down for our friends at Nvidia the areas that cause you all (us soon) the issues.

I walked into my purchase fully aware of all the issues that Optimus had or might have in the future. Nvidia has rarely failed me when I have requested something specific and can give detailed examples of the issue, though when they have, the community has stepped in and found a work around.

 

You can run XP on an R2, but you can't use the nVidia graphics onboard so you can try dualbooting.

The R2 can't do manual switching because all video is routed through the GMA, even the nVidia card. This slide best shows how Optimus works. It's a technical limitation.

I don't know much about XP and Vista's display driver model so I can't tell you why nVidia isn't supporting Optimus with XP.

So far we are up to 265.58 and 260.99- both drivers have problems: 260.99 doesn't let you play PunkBuster (eg:BFBC2) games and 265.58 doesn't work with GTAIV and crashes Left 4 Dead 2.

 

Do the new 267.24 beta drivers help?

 

I tried it and L4D2 still has problems.

 

Are there issues with other Source-engine games?

 

For discussion on the new driver check it out here http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-m11x/558775-nvidia-267-24-beta-driver.html

As for the netcode proof. I was told by a cyber professional athlete that gets paid to play video games as a job. He told me a bunch of things about how Windows 7 handles packets differently than in XP and can cause loss or choke more often in games. I am not a expert but I have seen a difference on my desktop that runs XP, however its a completely different configuration than this notebook (Core i5-750, 4GB DDR2 1333, GTX 470) so its hard to compare as well as bigger screen/higher refresh rate, etc.. So it would be nice to test myself. This is actually the first laptop I have ever gamed on. Mostly my old laptops would either get too hot to play multi-player for hours on end or not enough FPS/smooth enough gameplay.

 

While I will not go into how a professional gamer could or could not be reliable source for the inner workings of an operating systems handling of TCP/IP packets, I will give my own opinion. while I do not get paid to play games (as much fun as that would be) I do get paid by the nations second largest healthcare provider to do systems administration and network engineering. Not that I would know more than your average joe, but this is from my experience...


Windows XP is able to handle traffic more efficiently because the overhead for the OS has diminished exponentially due to advancements in hardware. Not sure of the age of the people here, but those of you who can remember windows 98 being newly replaced by XP, will remember the 'horror' stories of people who had migrated. XP was incredibly resource hungry and the idea that you had to have 256mb of RAM minimum to run it, with a preferred 512mb, was almost laughable.

Now, fast forward a few years and here we are. Yes, XP is more efficient in some respects because its overhead is far less than 7 (I will not go into the train wrecks that ME and Vista were for the scope of this post).

Do you have to tweak 7 to be more efficient than it is "out of the box"? Yes!

Can you tweak XP to be more efficient than it is "out of the box"? Yes!

Is XP more efficient than XP on its netcode? Your definition of efficient is not my definition. XP handles TCP/IP the exact same way, but the processor is less utilized due to the lower requirements. 7 comes ready for IPv6 and from a LAN standpoint, is more friendly to other 7 boxes as well as any 2k8 box. If your network is all XP systems it might help to run XP.

All in all, if you are running XP on a dual-core system with 4 GB of RAM, don't say that it is more efficient than windows 7 and cry foul. Run Windows 7 on a quad core with 8 GB of RAM and I bet you get statistically the same results.

I'm not a Microsoft fan, I run Kubuntu and a few hardened variants of Gentoo on most of my systems when I can, but when I want to game, I boot to Windows 7. I grew tired of XP because the 64bit version was causing me headaches and all of my systems run 8GB of RAM.

Sorry for the book, just wanted to point out that unless you know, please don't take someone's word as 'truth'. Not only can that make you sound like a fool, entire countries have gone to war and thousands have been killed because 'someone was told x by a reliable source'.

 

What does the statements of a professonal gamer have anything to do with you?

A professional race-car driver can tell me that Aluminum-Magnesium Carbide Fuel Injectors are better in wet weather traction at 150mph turns than the standard Carbon Steel Fuel Injectors. But that has nothing to do with me. Because I'm not a professional race car driver.

Just like how you're not a professional gamer, and would likely never notice any real-world differences between Win7 vs WinXP netcode.

 

Whoa, they have Aluminum-Magnesium Carbide fuel injectors? Hmmm...those might actually be something worthwhile to get. That alloy is supposed to be very good at resisting corrosion and clogging in the long term. Though its probably going to cost an arm and a leg. Eh, be worth it too look up at least.

Thanks kent!

edit: Nevermind, not enough of a difference to be worth it. Even if they made them for my car. Though the idea was nice.

 

Didn't want to quote the whole thing but well said and thank you for providing that respectful knowledge on TCP/IP. And now I have something to consider on an amateur gaming level not a professional one . BTW I do tweak W7 in services.msc to maximum potential.

You're analogy of a racer car driver to a professional gamer isn't really spot on. If I were to use that analogy the car would be going 150 mph constantly regardless if you are professional driver or not, if you don't have those Aluminum-Magnesium Carbide Fuel Injectors you are not getting the best traction on that wet road. And we can argue perceptual differences all day. Dark Blue from Navy, Cyan from Teal, and you can argue that you don't notice a difference but the difference is there none the less. Another professional gaming dilemma comes to mind to help reiterate what I'm trying to say is the notion that CRT monitors are better than LCDs. Why you might ask? Because of the much higher refresh rate capabilities. And yes I can say for a fact there is difference between a CRT monitor and a LCD @ 60 Hz when gaming. Try it yourself (or any LCD that can go higher than 60 Hz - merely the contrast shows the difference).

 

I also wanted to interject something I ran across the other day. While the slide, provided to me about the way the R2 uses video was exceptionally helpful, I began digging a bit deeper.

This could feasibly be changed in the firmware. I will talk to a few people I know that are not normally sociable (read that as programmers or code monkeys) and see if this could be accomplished via firmware. If we can force the 335 to be on when we want, and make use of it in Optimus when it works as intended, this would give us the best of both worlds.

Nvidia really does seem to think that we need to contact Dell/Alienware to get this patched into the BIOS. Not trying to say it will happen, but the possibility exists. If anyone knows someone who can do BIOS programming, have them take a look. Worst they can say, is no.

Try this link :

Linux and Hybrid Graphics - NVIDIA Forums

Look at post #18. The permalink doesn't seem to allow pasting.

 

I'll quote Nautis in that thread:

That is the reason why we can't just force the 335 on- all video is routed through the GMA so it is not directly connected to the display. Unless the 335 already has a deactivated multiplexer/connection to the display, the issue is hardware and no amount of BIOS programming can change that.

 

Isn't that redundant?
To say something is via software and not hardware... Don't you need hardware for software to run?

 

I never said anything about software- I'm trying to say the hardware for the 335 to work alone, without the GMA HD and like on the R1, may most likely be non existent and modding the BIOS won't change that.