5.1 or 7.1 headset

i was thinking of buying a headset for my m11x i was wondering i have never used a 5.1 or a 7.1 headset before is there a significant diff. between a 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound headset?

 

To answer your question directly: No, there is little difference between a 5.1 and 7.1 headset. But that is because surround headsets are a gimmick.




Here is a post I wrote on this topic a while back:

TL;DR version of post: All surround sound through headphones is software-based. Dolby headphone mode truly works with any set of headphones for that reason. "Gaming 5.1 surround" headphones are a gimmick. Surround sound through headphones depends on driver or game support.


Long version:

To understand how surround sound works in headphones, you need to first
understand how directional sound works in general.

The way that we, as humans, perceive directional sound is that sound wave will hit one ear before it hits the other. The sound may also echo off of other surfaces in the room (e.g. walls, tables, ceilings, floor, ear lobe, etc) before it hits our ears. Our brains processes that difference in timing + echo as directional sound. Surround speakers in a home theatre environment work well, because they have the advantage of using timing + echo to present positional sound to the listener.

When you get into headphones, it gets trickier. With headphones, the sound is getting piped directly into your ears. You do not get differences in timing or echo. The only way to get surround sound with headphones is to use some kind of software algorithm. That algorithm basically "calculates" the timing + echo, and estimates what your left and right ears would typically hear if there were true positional sound sources in a physical room. That software algorithm may be a piece of software that you install, or it may be built in to some device. But no matter what, there is some kind of software that is being used to process.

There are many names for this type of software algorithm - Dolby Headphone Mode, surround downmixing, virtual surround, etc. But they all do the same thing - they use software to calculate what your left and right ears SHOULD hear in a true 5.1 surround speaker setup, and pipes it through to your headphones. When Dolby says that their Dolby Headphones mixer "works with any set of headphones", they are not exaggerating the truth. It really does, because Dolby Headphones mode is really just a piece of software that happens to be baked into an external hardware device.

Now, when you see things like "surround gaming headphones" or "5.1 gaming headphones", they are all a gimmick. They all use some kind of software-based surround virtualization. Some "gaming 5.1 surround" headphones them even actually have multiple sound drivers in the headphone cups. But once you understand how the human brain perceives surround sound, you can quickly see that there is no way that having multiple sound drivers in a single headphone cup that are less than an inch apart can somehow emulate the true timing + echo of a true 5.1 surround sound speaker setup (with one exception, which I'll discuss later). They all use some kind of software.

So, once you know all of that, you quickly see that the best way to get surround sound on headphones is to get yourself a good software algorithm, and a nice set of high-quality headphones that emphasize clarity in the mid and high frequencies (like Etymotic canalphones).

The best way to get virtual surround through headphones is at the driver level. Windows 7 does a decent job of this, with its Virtual Surround setting. It doesn't quite have all of the options as a Dolby Headphone algorithm, which lets you do things like choose room size, wall materials of your "virtual room", etc (and thereby alter the way it performs the sound calculations), but it works. And most importantly, it works universally across all Windows apps. You can set your Windows Sound device to use Virtual Surround, and then set your games to use 5.1 sound output. OpenAL in Windows will intercept the 5.1 signal, and downmix it into 2-channel headphones for you.

The other way to get directional sound is if a game supports it directly. Valve Source engine games do a great job at this. I don't recall seeing any other games that do a spectacular job at this, though. You're probably better off sticking with the Windows Virtual Surround setting.



** Exception - Psyko Audio Labs 5.1 Headphones - they are the one exception that I mentioned earlier to "surround gaming headphones" that actually work. They mount 5 speakers on the headband of the headphones themselves, and simply have audio channels that lead into the ear cups. When a directional sound is played, it actually plays on one of the 5 speakers, which pipes through the sound channels into the ear cups. That design allows them to achieve some sort of timing + echo in hardware, to go along with their software. From what I have read, the surround sound works pretty well. The major drawbacks of those headphones is the high cost ($300), and the fact that they get uncomfortable rather quickly.

 

wow never really thought of it that way but i think your right.

so my next question, is there a software you can buy or download that can provide virtual surround sound? i now there is a usb surround sound driver you can buy but i rather use the built in jacks on my m11x.

 

I believe that between Windows 7 and your Realtek HD audio driver, you should already have virtual surround (downmixing) support. Just set everything in Windows and Realtek to Stereo configuration, and set your game to 5.1.

But to be quite honest, I almost never set my games to 5.1. The amount of sound processing that goes on to emulate surround ends up distorting the audio so much that it sounds "hollow". If the game has a Headphone mode, then I use that for positional audio. Othewise, I just stick with Stereo mode in games. I never set my game to 5.1. It's much more important to me to have clear sound, than it is to have positional cues.

 

I believe that between Windows 7 and your Realtek HD audio driver, you should already have virtual surround (downmixing) support. Just set everything in Windows and Realtek to Stereo configuration, and set your game to 5.1.

But to be quite honest, I almost never set my games to 5.1. The amount of sound processing that goes on to emulate surround ends up distorting the audio so much that it sounds "hollow". If the game has a Headphone mode, then I use that for positional audio. Othewise, I just stick with Stereo mode in games. I never set my game to 5.1. It's much more important to me to have clear sound, than it is to have positional cues.

Just because "5.1" is a bigger number than "2.0" doesn't mean it's better.

 

I agree virtual surround sound headphones are a gimmick, but real surround sound headphones are not. I have bought quite a few pairs of headphones for gaming, and there is a difference between playing with my Razer HP-1s (they have real 5.1) and any virtual surround sound or stereo pair. I have played the same game for the last decade, so it makes for a nice control. Over that time, I've bought quite a few pairs of headphones hoping to upgrade, but I've always had to stick with my Razer HP-1 set, which have real 5.1 surround sound built in.

I, in fact, hate them, yet I've never found a better set for gaming because having real 5.1 surround sound is so significantly better than regular cans that I pretty much have use them. They aren't great for listening to music or movies because the bass is bad (I switch them out for my Beyerdynamic DT 770s then), and they are from the first run (I bought them when they came out), which had horrible manufacturing problems (I had them replaced four times under warranty despite babying them), so really if they didn't work better for gaming, I would have enjoyed taking a hammer to them long ago.

I didn't notice it right away when I got them (when they came out maybe 3-5 years ago), but over some time the difference becomes apparent. Now when I try stereo headphones, I can't tell where people are (or where shots are coming from, etc.) nearly as well.

I don't think I'd recommend the HP-1's because I've had to resolder wires in mine at the volume control a few times now (since they're a few years out of warranty), but I can for sure say surround sound in headphones makes a difference and is worth trying.

To answer the second question, I haven't tried 7.1 surround sound headphones before, so I can't say if it's significantly different than 5.1 ones.

 

^This X 10





I've been through over a dozen headphones/headsets & sound card combos. You name it, I've used it. USB, 3x3.5mm plugs, stereo jack, multi-driver cups, etc etc. In all sorts of combinations with virtual surround, Dolby, & CMSS3D. Realtek, Creative, ASUS, Turtle Beach....I've been through some kit.


My personal preference, as Kent has mentioned is to get a quality pair of cans & run emulated surround sound. (Of course, as he also said, nothing can match an actual 5.1 surround sound speaker system)


My current setup is an X-fi card with some Sennheisers, and it's pretty damn good.


The only thing I differ with Kent on is that I prefer positional cues over clear sound. The types of games that I play it's a real advantage being able to hear the direction sounds are coming from. Although, I must say that X-Fi's CMSS3D + Sennheiser's wonderful drivers don't dirty the sound up too badly.


Try to flashbang me, eh? Better not run at me when you do, cause I'll shoot you based on the sounds of your footsteps while I'm still blind. Tho, I don't usually get flashed cause I can hear the can hit the ground & since i know which direction it hit, I know which direction to look away.

 

I love my Turtle Beach x41 set. Nothing better than watching a movie in the AM on them and not bothering the family.

 

Astro is coming out with their new wireless A40 system. You may want to check that out.

 

Astro A40 isn't bad. They have the Astro A40 combo, and are coming out with the Astro A40 5.8, which is a wireless solution that uses 5.8Ghz.

The A40 package comes with two items - the Astro A40 headset + Astro MixAmp. The Astro A40 headset is your standard 2-channel stereo headset with microphone. The Astro MixAmp is the real star of the show - it is a surround sound decoder that accepts 5.1/7.1 surround sound input via Digital Coax, S/PDIF Optical, or USB, and downmixes it into virtual surround sound for its 2-channel stereo headset. It is the idea I mentioned of the surround sound algorithm baked into a hardware device.

There are a lot of other bells and whistles on the Astro MixAmp device, like handling audio output and voice chat channels separately, and allowing you to mix the balance levels between the two. Nice little setup, but I still think you're better off getting quality headphones and just using software-based surround downmixing.

 

I am using Razer's Megalodon with my m11x. imo i feel that its not very wise to use something software base since it hogs your cpu for most of the processing and with the already pretty weak cpu that m11x has, it just further take more fps away. Megalodon has it's own dedicated soundcard that does the virtual 5.1/7.1 so it still doesnt hurt the cpu much. as far as my use goes so far I still yet to see performance drop even on a cpu intensive game when on this headset in surround mode. so i think the choice its pretty good imo

 

Bringing this post back up to the top. Psyko has released a better version of the 5.1 headphones, its the Psyko Carbon. price at $199.00 usd and its got better speakers in it and looks much better too.
Psyko Audio Labs - Psyko Carbon
They also have the new Krypton that look like the old ones, but I think have a little better speakers in it. price starts at $149.00 usd for these ones.
Psyko Audio Labs - Psyko Krypton

 

Ewww.....checked those links. The product lit is total bullshift and they either don't understand what stereo is or they are hoping you don't.

Hopefully someone with first hand experience will chime in because from what I see their products seem like tbe worst kind of gimmicks.


If you're going to blow that kind of money, why not get something practical?

In my experience a decent set of circumaural headphones will create an excellent sense of environment without having to rely on surround software.

Even the best small drivers headphones (ala iem's), can't avoid beaming the sound creating a narrow or flat headspace.

 

Those are not stereo headphones.... they are surround sound, and the theory of how they work is sound. I suggest you research the subject.

There are 5 speakers in the headband, they produce the correct alignment for the audio to hit your ears like a full room surround sound. Its not software based, its actual surround sound.

Read here
http://www.psykoaudio.com/index.php/PsykoWave-Technology.html

 

Psyko Audio Labs - Psyko Carbon

PURCHASED. I'll let you all know when it comes in.

 

Sick, I would love to hear another review of them. I am planning on getting a set very soon.

 

/facepalm

Of course they aren't stereo. My comment relating to stereo was based on this quote-

How is this different from normal headphones?
The basic headphone design has not changed dramatically in decades. They all basically deliver left sounds into your left ear and right sounds into your right ear. The sad truth is, it is not even true stereo, its dual mono.

This statement is patently false and shows either a dramatic misunderstanding of the most basic elements of audio, or worse, they are knowingly deceiving consummers.

Either way, it's enough to raise a red flag.

Stereo and mono have nothing at all in common with the number of drivers provided you have more then one.

Audio is recorded and mastered as either mono, stereo or multichannel. All recordings made in the last 60 years will play as stereo on all headphones.

You can only achieve dual mono when playing an audio signal recorded as
mono through headphones.

According to psyko, to get around the limits of "dual mono"-

There are techniques to compensate for this limitation, which require Digital Signal Processing (DSP), but it does not work for everyone and introduces latency. The DSP techniques are like giving everyone generic prescription glasses, they'll work well for some people, but the rest of us, not so much. Out headphones deliver all natural sound that everyone will hear to the limits of their audio acuity, with no latency.

Note they don't mention multichannel anywhere in their explanation. There's a reason for this.

Your audio signal is either recorded and processed as multichannel or it isn't. If it is, you'll need the appropriate number of drivers to play it properly and your good to go. Psyko has the drivers.

If it isn't you'll need to apply dsp to inerpolate the signal to give the illusion of multichannel to stereo drivers (headphones).

The number of drivers are irrelevant if your original audio source is not multichannel.

Psyko does not make this point clear. In fact they obscure it by giving the reader the impression that a signal processed with dps will provide real multichannel when played through their multidriver headphones. This is false.


Why can analyze more of their claims, particularly issues relating to lag, but I don't see that as being particularly exciting.

I was concerned about this company taking advantage of people, hence both posts.







There are 5 speakers in the headband, they produce the correct alignment for the audio to hit your ears like a full room surround sound. Its not software based, its actual surround sound.

Read here
Psyko Audio Labs - PsykoWave Technology[/QUOTE]

 

I am thinking they are "True" surround sound. thats why I ordered them. THere are a few other headphones that actually contain separate speakers in them for "true" surround.

 

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