M18x R1/R2 - Creative Use for the Empty Mini-PCI Slot (WIHD socket on systems without WIHD)

soldered on cpus isn't something new. There has been very few computers that there was a user upgrade-able cou on the motherboard.

edit: btw it isn't just laptops...

Intel 'preparing' to put an end to user-replaceable CPUs | ZDNet

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...end-of-socketed-cpus-the-end-of-upgradable-pc

 

Couldn't agree more with the above - post #102. It's certainly heading towards making user upgrades a thing of the past. Just another example of big business using it's muscle to make life harder for the end user, and cream off even more profit at every given opportunity. In a way, it is kind of like what Dell have done with this new 'tiered configuration' structure - sure, you can have 780m SLI, but in order to do so, you MUST have some of the crap we want to throw in on top of that so we make even more profit.

 

Yeah, I've seen all that. I realize it's not new, but having no other option available would be something new. Should that happen, it would really suck.

The silver lining is that it might help keep the value of used systems higher. I suspect Intel will still have an enthusiast option available. It might be limited to Extreme CPUs, but that would still be better than nothing. There is always the chance that such a foolish business decision would result in a loss of sales to enthusiasts and a public outcry against it, and they might ultimately rethink their approach if that happens. We have seen that happen with other things. The new XBOX is an example of an about-face on what was planned. The negative reception to their plans for big-brother control of things was severe and got Micro$oft's attention.

I don't know that they're smart enough to even recognize it, but this kind of stupid move would represent an opportunity for AMD to steal some of Intel's business. Hopefully, they have some big shots that are intelligent enough to not follow Intel's lead on that nonsense.

I am all for businesses making massive profits. Especially companies like Dell, Microsoft and Apple, which started off as home-run businesses and grew to behemoth enterprises. All are excellent examples of the way things ought to be. We have already seen bad examples of what happens when companies can't afford to spend money on R&D, strong incentive wages and delivery of excellent customer service. They start outsourcing and off-shoring, and offering fewer products. The more money they can make (and keep) the better. They become stronger, and that is better for their employees and customers (improving benefits, wages and job security, and employees that care about customers). They can only charge as much as the market will bear. Consumer financial restraints and competition is what keeps prices in check. Being profit-driven is a business virtue that is taking a bad rap in a messed up world that thinks having a Robin Hood government is acceptable. However, I am not in favor of anything that smacks of customer control, forced obsolescence, limited purchasing options, and consumer rip-offs (paying more for less). That is extremely anti-customer. In my view, moving to soldered CPUs is extremely anti-customer. It will probably lead to more garbage that can't be upgraded ending up in land fills, too.

 

not top talk against you, but based on volume of stuff made and wasted etc.. by making everything soldered on, they could simply only make what is being bhought in some cases/ i.e order it and wait for production, but also it wastes less product by having parts that are removable and such.. also things that get built to be the replacements usually end up somewhere too.. if we couldn't salvage parts here and there we'd probably not buy as many upgrades and waste less over all... but, we're the group of enthuisiasts that wish to do the crazy things to our pc, so obviously we're the smaller niche that wishes to keep things customizable..

but ultimately, we are the ones causing more trash/larger heaps... we maybe keep the same motherboard longer, but we go through many more parts that more then compensate IMO...

 

I'm thinking more in terms of disposable computers that are cheaper to replace than fix, or cannot be upgraded. A moderately priced laptop that is a year or two old, still in good condition and performs well enough, but needs a motherboard that costs way more than what it is worth because it includes a CPU is more likely to get round-filed. Even some of the more expensive garbage being cranked out and peddled under a guise of being something special (including some of the new MBP) have the CPU and memory soldered to the motherboard. This is a joke and it's shameful. I pity the poor suckers that buy that kind of junk and don't even realize it until it's too late. The manufacturers do not go out of their way to disclose unfavorable details like that. If they did, they probably wouldn't be able to sell their products to a fair number customers, enthusiast or otherwise.

I think a lot of noobs would avoid buying a computer if it was clearly labeled "Service parts for this system are prohibitively costly. Internal components that are typically serviceable are not removable. As a result, component upgrades are physically impossible or not feasible." Sure, there would still be some ignorant folks or value shoppers that go for it and possibly regret it later. But, then they would have only their self to blame rather than the company that shafted them.

 

Valid points.

Sorry I got this thread out of context to the mpci-e fun...

Q: can the slot be bootable ?
if so, what was bootable (seems others are interested/would value this information)

Based on experience...

Q: what cards/options were used to good effect ?
Q: what sort of cards / options (like WiFi dongles) did not work well/performed poorly for whatever reason ?

 

I could not get the internal slot to boot and to the best my knowledge nobody else was able to. It seems like power does not go to the DMC (mini-PCI) slot until POST completes, which could account for why it is not bootable. I never tested that with a power meter, so it is somewhat anecdotal. But, I tried more than once to boot multiple bootable USB devices without any success.

I used the USB port with a micro USB flash drive. I tried using the Logitech unified micro receiver for my G700 and the radio connection was frequently dropped. Others have use a different USB micro-dongle for a wireless mouse without any problems reported. I tried using my Intel Ultimate-N 6300 in that slot and the card is recognized and drivers installed. It could see, but it refused to connect to any wireless network while installed in the DMC slot. Moving it back to the appropriate slot, it instantly connected to my default WiFi connection.

I haven't tried other types of cards in that DMC slot.

 

I'm still pondering over what I can put into this slot. I really think the wireless mouse receiver is a good way to go but I can imagine drop outs would be frequent with my current budget wireless.

 

Try it... I know others say they have used it with a wireless mouse and had no issues. Maybe you won't with your budget mouse. It might be some kind of radio interference in some cases that does not occur for everyone. The USB card is so inexpensive that there is no great loss if it doesn't work well for that purpose. You can also stick a flash memory or something else in the USB port if the wireless mouse doesn't work well enough. The empty slot isn't serving any purpose, so you have nothing to lose.

 

You're right, there's nothing to loose. I've finally decided ill rip out my ODD too for a HDD raid 0 so I think ill do the upgrade all together.
I think this R2 will finally be brimming with hardware then..

 

its been a while since this thread been poked around, but here's something interesting that may work... what do you guys think/suggest?

Mini PCI E to Dual USB Pen Driver Card Reader WiFi Wireless Card Adapter | eBay (to be able to have 2 x extra USB internal ports with flexible extensions)

and

2 5 3 5" SATA SSD HDD to Laptop Mini PCIe PCI E mSATA Adapter Converter Card | eBay (maybe an idea for an additional mSATA?)

What would you's say?

 

The USB card in the first link will most likely work. I doubt the adapter in the second link will function correctly. I purchased a 64GB half-height mSATA SSD a while back and it is not recognized at all when installed in the DMC slot, but it works perfectly in the normal mSATA slot. I believe the DMC slot is attached to a USB port, and that might explain why it does not work for a normal mSATA drive connection.

 

alrighty well it seems I know now what I will be buying for my DMC port

hoping to somehow fit 3G Broadband modem with sim-card reader under the hood and probably wireless mouse receiver

 

well, how about converting these two USB 2.0 ports in to ESATA port?
USB 3.0 2.0 to eSATA External Bridge Adapter Converter 5Gbps for Latop | eBay

then we could probably fit one ultra-SLIM HDD/SSD there in the RAM compartment (SSD more likely due to lower power requirement, but such move would be orientated to older/cheaper SSD since USB 2.0 is massive bottleneck for SSD... but HDD wouldnt be as bad idea...maybe)

 

I have been running that dual USB card in my aw18 for about 3 months now, works perfectly.

The only issue is power, it's 5v @ 2a but it can dip down to 1.8a sometimes for no apparent reason. Perfectly fine for running 2x USB devices at 500ma. But I have been running a 750gb 7200rpm wd black and 8gb USB off it. So far it's working great, if I try to use 2 hdd's, none of them get enough power to spin up. 2x 256gb ssd's are fine though, but it's just for storage over usb2.0 so ssd's don't make sense to me.

It's better to use USB-to-2.5" hdd adapter rather than esata as you still need power for the hdd.

Initially I was going to steal 5v 2a from another part of motherboard, so I run 2x 750gb hdd's but then I would have to solder and stuff and it can cause issues with warranty as well.

 

^^ makes sense bro! Yea Im just curious what would I need to use most out of the two ports, one thing im wondering about is 3G USB Broadband modem, and another would probably be just a wireless mouse dongle sitting there quietly, well I was also thinking of placing two ultra slim and spacious HDD's with your suggestion but cant imagine where would they sit as space in R2 is pretty tight... maybe 1 drive would do maybe not

 

Not 100% sure about r2, as there is already space for 3 drives and then 1 in odd and 1 msata. I did this in aw18, because only 2 standard drives and 1 in odd and 1 msata, pretty much 1 extra hdd and 1 internal USB.

I did not tried using 3G/4g modem or Bluetooth, since chasis would act like a rf shield so range will be severely limited. One was I guess could be to add USB-to-mpcie adapter and add a broadband modem and run a spare antenna through to the LCD. In aw18, there is enough room to do that, and having easy access to dmc slot and LCD is also good. Not sure about r2.

 

That idea USB to mPCIE and then to mPCIE modem is not very smooth job to do I think, too much power draw at the end point, there are plenty options of direct USB-3G modems like ZTE HUAWEI brands, and I actually have few knocking around right now, so definitely one should fit there and would also retro-fit extra auxiliary GSM antenna behind LCD nearby WLAN antennas, that would be very good mod I think.

 

Like you said, it really isn't a smooth idea. But there is a reason why I suggested doing that way. In my experience, decent external 3G/4g antenna is too thick for placing it in LCD lid. USB 3G/4g modem will not have antenna connector for standard laptop antennas. So unless you want to try soldering antenna directly to the card, it's going to be very hard to sort out. I haven't had much luck with soldering antennas directly to cards, hence stay away from this kinda work.

With USB-mpcie bridge to put a mpcie modem, it should be about 500ma at 5v, that still leaves you with 1.5a at 5v for a second hdd, Hence it's doable.

Also in my experience, mpcie based modems always had much higher performance than USB based modems, note sure it's the antenna or power.

Personally, I just keep a wifi hotspot with me, can connect to multiple devices and can move it around for better reception as well. Just few days ago, was at my friends house, almost no reception inside, but decent reception outside, so wifi hotspot went outside and I still had 80% wifi strength.

 

Just bumping this thread with more info. I finished installing 2x msata SSD's on this card with custom wiring and so far both are BOOTABLE. Not full sata speeds but still relatively quick.

 

please explain more on how did you get each usb port from that adapter card to take mSATA SSD each? and are you running this card from DMC/WIDI Slot?

Im waiting for the delivery on this card still ...

I've searched a bit and found these to be interesting things:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170990108655

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161145384505

now only need to find cheapest & highest capacity mSATA SSD's for such project

 

I used two of these cards New USB Micro SATA Cable Mini PCIe M PCI E to mSATA 3x5 SSD Micro SATA Adapter | eBay with combination of the mpcie-dual USB adapter I linked earlier.

I did run custom cables my friend made for me, just remember the color coding in cables, that come with mpcie-USB dual adapter is wrong, if you blindly follow the coloured wires, you will end up burning the adapters and msata itself. I can post color codes but my friend did the soldering, so gotta confirm with him first.

After removing black case covering msata and USB adapter in tape to prevent shortages, one fits between odd and odd-bracket and second one goes on the side of odd.

 

Kingston DataTraveler HyperX Predator - USB flash drive - 512 GB - USB 3.0 at TigerDirect.com forget this noise!

 

OK, let me get this straight.

A mini PCI-e SSD will NOT work in this slot, but the mini PCI-e to USB adapter with, say, a 128GB USB stick will work?

Why is that?

 

I have not tried this with m18xr1/r2 so cannot comment on what will work and what won't work.

But in aw18, I assume, mpcie ssd should work and should be bootable, but mpcie ssd's are very slow, even slower than USB drives. And mpcie to USB adapter, is only taking the existing USB ports available at mpcie slot. Rest of the circuitry is for voltage conversion.

I will see if I can get hold of an mpcie ssd, but no promises.

 

Must be something in the circuitry on the adapter card that enables it. A USB flash memory stick is not bootable when installed in the adapter. It is not recognized and appears to not receive any power from the motherboard until POST has completed. I believe the DMC slot may be connected to a USB port and the pin-out may not work for the SSD. My half-height mSATA SSD fits the slot fine but it is never recognized. It is completely ignored in the DMC slot and it works like normal in the factory mSATA slot.

 

So the mini PCI-e SSD is not bootable, or the computer never sees it, not even in Windows?

Because I bought a 32GB SD card to mess around with, only to find that the SD slot isn't bootable either, but obviously shows up in Windows.

 

That's correct. It did not show up anywhere when installed in the DMC slot. It was completely ignored, even in Windows.

 

Except in aw18, it does get power before post is completed and is bootable. I ran clonezilla off the msata connected over USB to dmc card slot, and cloned between raid and msata.

 

I will have to try my half-height mSATA SSD in the 18 DMC slot. If it works, that is good to know. It's unfortunate that it does not work on the M18xR2. I was really hoping it would.

Have you already tried it in your M18xR1 to see if it works like 18 does? If it works in the M18xR1 that might bear some sort of correlation to the fact that the SiBEAM wireless worked in the R1 but never worked correctly in the R2.

 

I haven't had much time to play around much, finishing old job and taking on a new business, yup good times ahead

msata SSD (full size) directly, i have not tried, as it was not detected in M17xr4, I just put that mpcie-dualusb adapter and drivers were installed automatically, nothing to be done, just install and put the screw in.


Its funny, I was not even working on DMC slot, I was doing some voltage measurements around the CPU and had the adapter plugged in, and then i realized voltage lines to DMC card slot were active before POST (just like the killer Ethernet chip). In laymens terms, the moment you press power button, DMC card slot will become active.

So I had to do more testing and turned out I was able to boot from it. From there on, it was simple matter of doing custom cabling.

One thing I would caution against is, you can make custom cabling for mpice-dualusb adapter linked above, but be wary of color coding on the cables, as its swapped around between data and voltage lines, not getting it right CAN DAMAGE BOTH CARD AND USB PERIPHERAL, secondly keep the wires as short as possible, THERE WILL BE A BIG VOLTAGE DROP, WHICH WILL RENDER BOOTING (OR EVEN DETECTING) OF USB PORTS USELESS.

Remember we only have 5V @ 1.7-2.1A, although it sounds good enough, it has been up-volted from 3.3V and can fluctuate on high loads. I will recommend not exceeding load at 1-1.2 A

I did not had good fun with DMC card slot to dual sata adapter, not 100% sure if the adapter I have is DOA or DMC card slot cannot detect it. I do have 20 minutes free time, so I will check the mpcie-dual sata card in M18XR1. I will also see, if I can steal some time to test msata in DMC card slot.

One thing is for sure, I have never spent this much time on a system, I was about to give up on, there might still be some hope for my relation with AW18 after all

 

Ok just did some testing, 99% sure the mpcie to dual sata card I have is borked, since it did not detect in m17xr4/m18xr1/aw18, msata ssd does not get detected in dmc card slot for any of the three.

Mpcie to dual USB gets detected in all 3 but only bootable in aw18.

Anything else, please let me know and I will give it a go

 

thats good to know, but it sucks due to aw18 has almost no space for mods, the chassis in optical drive area only fits 12mm I believe.

 

ROFL this is hilarious but can actually be useful at certain situation
Amfeltec :: Flexible MiniPCI Express 2-Way Splitter

 

Ok, so I have been thinking of some options on what I could use in my 2 x USB 2.0 internal ports from DMC slot, and so far integrated wireless mouse transmitter works but not so satisfactory as I thought... chassis is blocking some of the RF signal most of the time so mouse is not so smooth as before(yep, tried recharging it, aint the battery )...

So I'm thinking maybe I will hook up USB-3G modem with sim card in it, but I will need to route AUX aerial right away for that to pick up decent GSM signal...

I know I wont be using any internal usb sticks or memory sticks as It wont be much use to me, computer has everything I may need so I am not sure what to use there...

Option #1 : 3G USB modem(usb stick type, and stripped of its plastic shell of course)
Option #2 : USB FM Transmitter/receiver - which I can not find on internet... would be handy FM radio on the go
Option #3 : USB TV Wireless Dongle (wonder how would this work) Fast FW150US 150Mbps Wireless N150 WiFi USB Dongle Ultra Mini Adaptor TV WLAN | eBay
Option #4 : Thermometer - to measure inside chassis temperature ...


anybody else anything to suggest?

 

Option 3 would be pretty cool.

 

Anyone happen to find a 3g/4g modem with sim card slot that works in this slot? Or say a TV tuner if one exsists, would be kinda cool to watch DTV on my R3 while in bed since i don't actually keep a standard TV

 

yea except that it is unusable in that port cause of all the circuits interfering with wifi signal, same reason why antenna goes into top of the LCD for best signal reception. i'd throw in a usb 2.0 stick in there as DMC ports runs on 2.0.

 

That's what I use it for. I have a Sandisk Cruzer Fit in there and it works fine for that. There is too much EMI for my Logitech mouse dongle to work well in that spot, too. The signal drops out too much.

 

Taking it that's a no then.

 

you could still try to use Bluetooth usb or wifi usb dongle. I use to have my sony usb wifi headset dongle in there, but instead of 15 meters it only works up to 2-3 meters LOL. and music is choppy at times

 

Just picked up pair of these 64GB microSD cards here for real cheap : 64GB Class 10 Micro SD Memory Card with Adapter | eBay

and will put them in to my dual usb adapter in DMC slot using some nano microSD adapters to save the space

now thats a dam cheap 128GB of flash storage for little buck!

 

i have mine used as usb wifi to antenna for wifi internet lol

 

What do you have in the wifi card slot then?

 

If such thing exists of course, the wireless fingerprint scanner! That would be very cool, or short range wireless usb to usb hub, so you can plug in whatever you like if you need that extra port or so

or if youre short on REAL GPU POWA? http://www.bplustech.com/Adapter/PM2.html

 

If you look in the last photo, he has a SATA card in the WiFi slot. The DMC slot is not bootable and it is only a USB port that does not support SATA, which is why he switched things around like that.

 

Heh, pretty inventive lol.

 

theres only 1 lane going to wifi slot and DMC is only act as a usb port. our graphics is at 3.0 x 8 lanes lol thats almost at 6.4GB/s where as 1 lane of 2.0 is at 400MB/s.

yea I got it from ebay/m-factor/bplus product, its a mini pcie to dual sata bridge but it is not a raid card. both ports will work on 1.0 combined bandwidth if its 2.0 only 1 port can run stable. i have 1 port run into another dual port raid sata card to get 2 ports instead of 1..

 

So in theories we Alienware 18 owner can do the same thing?

it seems the aw18 also as this mini-pci slot. And a desperately need a Esata or sata port that i can use externally for backups or to diagnose client hard drive!

anybody tried it on the aw18 or is it even doable ?

 

its doable for extra storage, as for esata I do not know. you'll have to cut the case and put a esata port there donno hows that going to work.