I7-3720QM(ES) with unlocked multiplier and 8MB L3. Worth getting

I have a new M18x R2 with a I7-3610QM in it. I found on ebay a I7-3720(QM/ES) version that has 8MB L3 and unlocked multipliers. What do people think about this upgrade?

 

Imho, worth the trouble if you are into virtualization and encoding. Games - no big difference. Benching - won't beat the XM chips.

 

I would say save up and get an XM unless what you have is not adequate enough for you and yeah wouldn't see much difference in most of them...unless something is cpu intensive ...virtualization yesssssss

Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2

 

Its OK... I have the chip clocked at 41 across all 41 cores... anything more and its super toasty.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

 

I've pondered the very same upgrade as you many times. Mainly, because buying an Alienware turned me into a power phene (fiend) and I wouldn't mind tinkering and benching a little. The 3720qm is a temping jump up.
But the fact is, I purchased this machine mainly for games and knew the 3610qm wouldn't OC vs 3720qm when I ordered. As far as games go, it's more than capable helping the GPU's push out 60fps and beyond and I got what I bargained for.
Now I'm thinking, if I'm going to upgrade, I'll make it worth the hassle ie. I'll get a XM processor for the right price or sit the gen out until Haswell comes along. Unless someone here donates me a 3720qm or higher if they upgrade before me :hi2:

 

Are you a power phene or power fiend, brother TBone? (There might not be a lot of difference other than genetics, LOL.)

You'll love an XM if you get one. You'll never look back. Don't go with an ES. Get at least a QS, if not an OEM version.

 

Lol.. Fiend (i beg my pardon )
I'll probably wait until the next gen of CPU/GPU's come out before I consider an upgrade, so long as the jump is significant. Unless I see a good deal on a CPU before then.
Meanwhile, Dam Borderlands 2 is the only thing that has made me want nVidia for the bonus physx effects

 

If the XM and ES can both be overclock because they are unlocked and both come with the same cache, then what would be the advantage of buying the XM over the ES? Your talking large amount of $$$ difference.

 

If the multipliers are TRULY unlocked (not the measly default unlocked 37-40 multiplier range), then BUY IT NOW. There should be no difference between XM and unlocked ES if both have unlocked multipliers, the ES would only slightly fall behind in higher multipliers. This was the same case back in the day of Q9200 unlocked vs QX9300. The Q9200 could easily keep up with the qx9300

 

Not all ES chips are created equal. Some perform on par with a QS or OEM and others do not. It is basically a prototype that may or may not work as well. We have seen a number of members in our community over the years with an ES chip that works good, but never quite as well as the QS or OEM XM model.

I believe the CPU everyone keeps calling an "unlocked 3720QM ES" is actually a not a 3720QM at all, but a 3920XM ES that is consistently misidentified as a 3720QM by apps like CPU-Z. I know of a couple of folks in our community with a 3920XM ES chip that is always identified as a 3720QM in error. That chip typically maxes out around 4.5GHz and will *almost* keep up with the OEM XM CPU. There would have been no reason for Intel to produce a mainstream 3720QM ES processor that is identical to a 3920XM. They would have to start the engineering process over from scratch and they don't frequently make huge engineering mistakes like that at Intel. The 3720QM should be able to reach a maximum overclock of 4.0GHz. The 3920XM should be able to achieve 4.6 to 4.8GHz. And, with Ivy Bridge there seems to be more than megahertz in play, so 500MHz is a more meaningful gap in performance with Ivy Bridge than it is with Sandy Bridge processor. The 2MB cache size difference is also significant.

Processor	3720QM	3920XM
Number of Cores / Threads	4 / 8	4 / 8
Clock Speed	2.6 GHz	2.9 GHz
Maximum Turboboost Speed	3.6 GHz	3.8 GHz
Cache/Smart Cache	6 MB	8 MB

This is accurate. The 3720QM should be a solid performer. But, a QM CPU is not going perform on par with an XM CPU.

 

The I7-3720QM(ES) is in da house. What a pain in the rear to get to the internals of the M18 to change things out. Will get to play with it more tonight. But here are a couple of pics from the BIOS. It shows the 8MB L3 and is ID as an Extreme. Not bad for $225.

 

The 3720QM doesn't have 41 cores. XD

 

C'mon, we need some action!

 

Please black out your service tag.... Not a good idea to have that showing... People can use it in malicious ways...

 

I love my ES chip... It performs great!

 

3720QM ES is no way a secretly a 3920XM ES, it may perform similar but not equal, not only that it cant keep up with XM chip, its thermal operation is different too, also because its unlocked multipliers and higher L3 cache, its most likely because its a first level up i7 ES chip from 3610QM ES which turned out to be experimental and leaded to where 3820QM was made. Not claiming that I know for a fact, same like nobody can tell but only intel themselves but its a fact 3720QM ES is just as is 3720QM with extra features as its unlocked multiplier and higher L3 cache because its an experimental chip nothing more, and I do strongly believe its not by any means 3920XM ES, because if it was it would at least keep up as high as 3920XM QS/OEM past 41x multi's.
Just because you can go as fast as lamborghinni in your turbo civic, it doesnt mean youre a lamborghinni.
While intel cooking ES/QS chips make such big mistakes as naming it wrong from 3920XM ES to 3720QM ES, believe me this wouldnt happen, and especially since its internal testing purposes only, engineers testing purposes only.
No offence just my firm point of view and opinion.

 

The funniest part of all this discussion is the XM chip and the QM chip are never fully utilized by any games out, you might see upto 60% max core usage. Now unless the OP is a benchmarker, i can see why it would be so important for him to upgrade (assuming we are talking gaming). Now if we are talking about increasing sheer FPS you would look towards the GPU, save those pennies for the 700series Nvidia cards or 8000 series AMD, now that is a worthy upgrade that will provide the greatest gains, IMO. Those next gen CPUs will not be supported by your MOBO, this has already been stated as well.

 

No offence taken, but whats your point. This chip is a hidden Gem that can be picked up for 1/4 the price of the XM and offer the same performance as the XM. I've only just started to bench with it too see how far I can go and already I'm running the Level 3 OC the BIOS offers which if I remember right is 43/41/38/37.

 

Valid point on the next gen CPU, so this chip is a hidden GEM that will keep your system at the upper limits of performance for some time to come. With having Dual 7970's in my system this CPU ensures they are been fed properly with all the data they need. And maybe, just maybe when the next series of GPU's come out we will get lucky that they will be supported/work in the M18x R2, like the 7970/680 does in the M17x R3.

 

How about some Prime95 run @8 threads @Level 3OC to see if the temps can hold? Also, are you using a 1/2/3-piped CPU?

 

Can anyone shine some light on how the speeds/ratios work when testing the CPU (eg. Prime95). I have my 3720 set to 40, 39, 38, 38 but when testing with Prime 95 the core speeds all seem to max out around 3 GHz (with CPU-Z or HWInfo). I thought that if all four cores are being used, the speeds would cap at the 38 ratio?

 

It means your CPU throttles down under load due to high temps maybe...

 

Any idea what temps would do this? Before the fan ramps up, the temps do spike to high 80s but after that are in the 70s-80s with Prime95.

 

It can absolutely mean that temps are causing throttling, and it could also mean you are not putting enough or too much power to the CPU. Set your flex at zero. If it gets better, increase flex to 2. If it gets better, set flex to 3. When it starts to go the other direction drop your flex to the point you maintained the highest overclock.

 

Its a 1 thick pipe. Looking at ordering the 3 pipe.

 

All I did in the BIOS is set Extreme Edition to Enabled and set the Ratios to 40, 39, 38, 38. The Flex VID Override is set to 0 right now. I have attached a pic of the BIOS screen. Would you be able to confirm any other settings I should change? Thanks.

 

is this the 3720QM ES i am looking for? So this is almost a XM chip? What are the pros and cons of it? i got a 3720QM right now.
New Intel i7 3720QM QBC1 2 6GHz Turbo 3 6GHz ES Unlocked Multipler Free UPS DHL | eBay

Also what are the standard multipliers with 3720QM? I have been playing around and all i get is 38 across the board with TS and TS bench runs at full speed but F@H runs lower ~36-37

Intel XTU only goes up to 40 39 38 38 so is that the best normal 3720QM can do? I thought it was supposed to hit 4GHz?

Mayda Mayda...was working at 103.5MHz and upped to 104 and everythign started to crash put it back at 103.5 and was stable for a min so now back to 103 :/

runny at ~37.94 x 103.19 MHz = 3915.1 MHz

got close to 4GHz without the other multipliers lol

AH Intel XTU tells you default 36 35 34 34 and i am at 40 39 38 38

grrr F@H multipliers are all over the place from 36.xx-37.xx...what gives?

NM went back and now i am at 34.xx again...whats going on?

Ahh man...is it that TB is only good for 28s? Seriously thats stupid

34.13 x 102.85 MHz = 3510.3 MHz this is whats going on with F@H :/ so much for 3.9GHz for folding Also +/-45.6 W TDP

EDIT: question can you undervolt? I am sure the voltage is high enough for these. Could you undervolt a tad to squeeze out a little more out of them?

Also what is wrong with my temps? one core is 78-79 another is 83-84 another is 84-85 and last is 87-89? What is up with the 8-10C difference? Even my 920xm ES with a big chip on one side of it only has 3-7C difference in cores at worst. Could it be a bad paste from dell or 1 screw is tighter than the others so that only one core has good contact and the others have little pressure?

 

Wow, that was like 10 questions in one post, I'll confirm that the temp variance you are receiving is normal as I get around 5 degree variances... Even after multiple repastes. The ES chip is a huge risk due to stability... The chip might not hold a extreme OC as well.. The list goes on with ES. Also even a slight undervolt would still create high temps in the R4, I run the 40,39,38,38 and reach 87c across the cores... One guy here runs 41 ACROSS ALL cores... I'm curious as to his temps.

 

I believe HopelesslyFaithful has not bought the ES chip but is playing around with his 3720QM from Dell. Re-read the first parts of his post if in doubt.

To Faithful: A few things can limit the performance of your CPU: current, flex and power, assuming thermal throttling isn't a problem yet. You should make sure you have at least 112A for current and let your short/long duration power max go skywards. Having done that throttling should stop.

 

Yes I know that... So what are you getting at?

 

I thought you were using Faithful's CPU being an ES as a reason for his "stability issues". Read too much into it I'm afraid

 

i figured it out i guess. It is TDP. when using F@H it runs at 45.x TDP so all i cna get is 34 multiplier. 40 39 38 38 only lasts the 28 seconds turbo boost works :/ Thought the temps are very weird. Anyways about that ES Chip. It is going for 250 on ebay and that seems like a steal. I got a 920xm ES (QS sample) and its golden...minus it has a huge chip out of it lol. Can it really be unstable? what are the pros and cons and how can it be unstable? I mean for getting nearly an XM chip now instead of 2 years from now is nuts. Normally i wait 2 years and buy an XM chip since thats when they hit the 200-300 dollar range but wow.

Also if the 3820QM is 45 TDP than its kinda pointless in my eyes....it'll run the exact same speed as my 3720QM for folding....whats the point lol. I always find anything about the 3610qm or equivalent fairly pointless....except if you need that VT think or whatever.

 

My 3820QM runs 41/40/39/39 with BCLK at 102.9MHz. Do the maths and tell me if 3720QM can reach that? FYI, when fully loaded the CPU power consumption is about 70 W. Temps aren't too bad thanks to my 3-pipe heatsink

 

Any numbers? Can you run a stress test like Prime95 on 8threads without throttling? What's the peak temp?

 

yea but that doesn't last longer than 28s i bet unless you have a TDP high than 45, which was my point....whast the use of a CPU that runs at 4GHz if it only last 28 seconds and dumps to 45TDP. Mine gets 3.9GHz for all of 28s which is pointless

EDIT: Also can you answer this from my previous post?

 

^^ you can edit the power limit value to avoid that throttling
My 3720qm will happily run at 40/39/38/38.
Prime95 (8 instances) will run at 3.8ghz all day, with no throttling, at a max of 80-82C (with 2 pipe cooler)
and while gaming its generally between 65-75C depending on the game.

Cant remember the value from the top of my head but I used the power limit from Level 1 OC (and edited flex back to 0 and multi to 40/39/38/38)

 

Huh? I have TDP AT 55 but does nothing. What is this lvl and flex thing

 

4 PAGES, HALF A MONTH... And I still can't see here if that 3270ES is really XM chip or no. Can someone please compare max OC of that ES and usual OEM 3270 please?

Actually I am not going to buy that but very curious.

 

That's great! I like the temps! That's better than a similarly OC'ed 29x0XM or 39x0XM!

 

sorry to hijack but i also have a CPU question. Hows the 3630qm? i ordered an m18x with it and 680m SLI, not im worry it wont be fast enough for the sli or limit my frames.

 

i recommend making a new thread on that but its fine a very good CPU that wont give you any problems

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-INTEL-i...DHL-/261094409827?pt=CPUs&hash=item3cca708663

so no one has answered this yet. this ES chip is basically an XM chip as in you have COMPLETE control over multipliers right? there is no limit correct? Also can you adjust TDP or are you still capped on TDP?


Also whoever has the 3820qm has yet to state if the 39x multipliers lasts forever or what your TDP is. I honestly don't see the point in having 1 extra multiplier when you only get it for 28s.

Also all chips are the same. 3610 3720 3820 39xxXM are all the same chip except some have higher build quality hence why they make the tiered system. a 3610qm is a 3920xm because it has all of the same transistors. Only difference is Intel hard capped its power envelope and also stripped its features down. They do this for several reasons. Two i can think of and they are 1. Some chips are not as stable so they get sent to be a "lowend" chip 2. they can make more money this way by making 1 chip and selling them as different kinds. They keep their yields higher and can charge 1k for a chip that hardly cost them anything.

EDIT: also does anyone know of a list of the steppings for the 3720QM? what stepping is OEM and QS and what si the ES model?

 

look at this bios screenshot :


I recommend level 1-3 overclocking at level 1 and flex VID override at 0 (Flex will add voltage but you should not need to add any for a 3720)

 

how does that keep it running over 45TDP though? I am stuck at 3.5GHz ~34x multipliers because i am running at 45TDP, which is what the CPU is hardcoded to cap at.

 

Yes I've done quite a bit of stress testing (Prime95, XTU, TS Bench, OCCT etc). If I do Prime95 the temps will go up to ~95 degrees C but usually hover below 90. Clocks are monitored with Throttlestop and whatever else showing clocks.

Quite pleased that my QM does 4.0 on all cores

 

There is no hard cap on TDP. It's just a number that the engineer uses for reference when designing the cooling system. My clocks are for all cores and all time. No throttling ever throughout hours of stress-testing. If yours can't hold the clocks after 28 seconds, just make sure your long duration power max is equal to your short duration power max. That should fix it.

As for the ES deal, I've never owned one so.. no idea

 

Don't know anything about hard cap but TDP is NOT just the numbers. Because of hard cuped TDP on my 840QM I don't have full Turbo Boost and this is on stock clocks!

HopelesslyFaithful, is it really grayed out in Throttle Stop and you can't increase it? Or TS isn't updated to fully support I-core Gen 3 yet?

BTW. And yeah, check you BIOS settings just in case. Check your PSU, maybe power isn't enough. Check AC or DC port connection if it is clean and shiny. etc.

 

This is the Alienware forum so I assumed that we're talking about partially unlocked 3720/3820qm's, not fully restricted CPU's like the 820qm. TDP is pretty much just a number to me when my CPU's guzzling 70 W when loaded

 

ok you have base TDP 3720qm is 45w TDP long term turbo boost is 55TDP and only lasts for 28 seconds. I tried putting it at 0 secs in BIOS and max time which is 58s and still stays at 28s. Short term Turbo is 68w TDP and it is turned off even when i change it in bios it is still off. With the new IB turbo long term turbo is only good for 28s and than your stuck at stock TDP which is 45w. I tried increasing long term turbo TDP to 60 65 75 and it stay at 55. I also tried any where from 10-50mv for turbo voltage and i didn't touch non turbo voltage. This is not a voltage issue it is a TDP issue after 28s long term turbo turns off and you run at stock TDP....this is how they are designed.

I have no clue how you got past stock TDP since these are not XM chips. TDP should be locked

Also i am using newest XTU and TS 5.00

here are pictures

BIOS shots
http://imageshack.us/a/img854/6844/20121107044437.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img405/774/20121107040639.jpg

XTU/CPUz/TS5.0
http://imageshack.us/a/img803/6685/xtu.png

TS
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7631/ts1a.png
And yes i tried many times to unclick enable button. Also changed it in TS and BIOS and nothing. XTU its blocked. Also i tried doing this with both programs opened and also using only one at a time and using only BIOS

EDIT: BTW GTO as far as i know your wrong on the whole TDP thing. James is saying the same as me so if you magically got a 3820qm that works like an XM chip i want to know how that works or how you did it because my 3720QM is stuck at 45 TDP except for long term turbo boost which is only 28 seconds. I do have complete control of multipliers up to XTU limits but thats pointless when i am stuck at 45 TDP and 55 (normally only 53) TDP for 28 seconds.

Looking forward to your reply because i would love to get this to work like yours but i am not holding my breath

EDIT: what the duce?

So I reedited BIOS and now XTU goes higher??? I didn't apply XTU yet and tried F@H and again only lasts 28 seconds

BIOS
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1484/20121107055754.jpg

New Super charged XTU????
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3092/xtu2.png


EDIT: Weird i checked TS again and TDP is 65 68 for long adn short turbo....

TS
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8185/ts2d.png

I am going to apply the new super XTU settings and see if TS changes.

Well even though TS says 65 turbo is stuck at 55 and i applied XTU settings and TS went back to 55/68 :/

BTW I never understood why you even bother with anything higher than the last core. you can have 47 45 43 38 and its pointless. You will never go above 38 or no more than 39 because how windows sends information over all cores. I'll see 25% usage running a single thread and all you get is 38.25x....why? whats the point of higher single core speeds when they are never used? This is happens in my 920XM too.

Dumb I set affinity to a single core and it sends 100% usage to that single core but guess what...still only 38.25x....pointless. The whole concept of that tier multiplier is bogus

 

I don't recall having done anything out of the ordinary to be able to control power limits.. However, I'm very surprised that you are able to set multipliers as high as 44 or even 47. Mine is just maxed at 41/40/39/39.

As for single/dual core speeds, they do appear when you run programs like, for e.g., SuperPi. Also, when you just start the CPU stress test in XTU, there will be a brief instant when the active core count is 1 and your frequency jumps to single-core turbo.

Spoiler

[\spoiler]

Edit: spoiler fail..

 

Just realised that 70W was what I got when I messed up the flex settings. Right now with 0 flex the CPU tops out around 57 W. Not limited to the time window though