How to reset the BIOS if one runs into no POST with a messed up BIOS.

TLDR for those who don't want to read:

Hybrys summarized it, but I have tried removing the CPU without the CMOS battery, and it didn't work that time for me. Try it at your own risk, and anything else I have suggested at your own risk.

Hi all,
So, finally after much wait (21 days in total), my system is back in 1 piece, and it's alive and kicking. It's fully functional again. I have had 2 mainboard replacements, and a SLI bridge replacement.

As some of you might have known, there are quite a few users who ran into no POST situations, without any easy way to recover/reset the BIOS in the Alienware 18.

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Among the few causes of no POST, including my own(note that I have the 4930MX CPU, oc'ed to 4.1GHz in XTU, so not everyone is going to have the same condition):
1) My first no POST involved disabling RAPID on the Samsung 840 EVO. RAPID uses 25% RAM or no more than 1GB of system RAM to cache the SSD.
2) My second no POST involved applying OC LVL 2 in BIOS. I didn't get to check the BIOS version but I believe I was on A00.
3) My third no POST was after I adjusted the processor current limit in XTU, and ran the XTU benchmark. I restarted the system and it wouldn't POST.
4) From other users, I have heard that overclocking the CPU caused no POST, changing RAM speed to XMP caused no POST.

Not everybody posted here when they have no POST, some of them got no resolution so they just complained to Dell and received a replacement. But all in all, just know that there're more no POST situations than you think there are.

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I have tried these few methods to unbrick the system but none of them worked:
1) Detach the CMOS battery
2) Short out the CMOS connector of the CMOS battery (I have done this both with and without battery connected). Then holding down power button for a long time to drain the system.
3) Short out the CMOS copper contact directly on the mainboard (requires the removal of mainboard from the chassis)
4) Holding down END and plugging in ac adapter. It spins up all the fans and initiates the recovery mode for a blind flash, but since the USB ports on the AW 18 do not work before POST, this method didn't work. It used to work on the previous AW M18x R2, but since I didn't have R2 I can't confirm this. Those with R2 can comment on this.

More about blind flash here (more if you Google):
How to recover from a bad flash for Alienware M18X R2

6) I have also tried putting the recovery file by putting them onto a CD, didn't work. Note that the BIOS for the AW 18 does not contain the .fd file anymore, so one has to get it from somewhere else. I have a backup BIOS (ver A00) for the mainboard because some time ago I provided a copy of BIOS for our fellow friend, svl7. And to do that I have to backup the BIOS, and he guided me on it.
7) I tried to boot the system with no RAM, and tested out each RAM sticks. This didn't work.
8) On Mac that's after 2009, to reset the BIOS one press command + p + r ( About NVRAM and PRAM), I tried this on the AW, didn't work.
9) I tried Fn + B, Ctrl + B, Ctrl + Alt + B, Fn + END, Ctrl + END, etc etc. None of those work. Perhaps there's a combination which Dell didn't tell us. If there is one we deserve to know. If Apple has command + p + r, AW needs to have something similar. No excuse here.

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Resolutions:

:thumbsup: METHOD 1:
Then about a week ago I saw this:
Alienware 18 Teardown

Some French users have had to have their mainboard replaced due to no POST. And someone figured out how to reset the BIOS, or make it go to last known good configuration. I am not 100% sure if it resets it to default factory settings, but if the computer boots, the computer boots, and nothing else matters. Any settings that's reset could be changed easily once one can access the BIOS.

The method they found out, was to remove the 4900MQ/4930MX CPU and replaced it with the 4700MQ. The system would beep for about 30 seconds or so, then it will restart and beep again. One can then turn it off then it should boot. After it boots, go into BIOS and press F9 to reset to default settings. Also to be safe disable "overclocking" in the performance option. Then after that replace the 4700MQ with your CPU.

Now the above method is fine, but requiring one to have a 4700MQ around just to reset the BIOS, to me is inconvenient and expensive. So after some playing around I found out another way.

:thumbsup: METHOD 2:

To be frank, 2 mainboard replacements in 2 weeks, where each one was about a week's wait were rather exasperating. On top of that, the day I received the 2nd mainboard replacement, I had BSODs due to memory_management, and my SLI disappeared. The second GPU would sometimes appear in Device Manager, and sometimes disappear after a reboot. The system went unresponsive when I was installing Nvidia's 331.58 driver. Tons and tonsof problems. I was going to explode.

Then I started taking out components and let the system beeped away. I took out the palmrest, took out all the RAM, and let the system beep away. It beeped for a while then restarted, but still no boot.

I then took out the display and CPU, and let it beep away. I believe during that time I also disconnected the CMOS battery. Then I put the CMOS battery in, after putting in the CPU. Eventually I put the display in and it booted again.

So there're ways to reset it without using another CPU, which involves removing the CPU and the CMOS battery. I am not sure the exact order, you might not need to remove the CMOS battery, but if it ran into no POST again I will be able to pinpoint it further.

Sadly (or fortunately), I can't get it to not POST again. I believe method 1 and method 2 are similar; the BIOS tries to load some microcode or apply some settings to the CPU, and somehow it caused CPU fault somewhere. And once you remove the CPU/swap the CPU, after it beeps for about 30s, it will try to restart. I presume it's during this time that the system "gives up" on trying to apply the settings to the CPU, and it defaulted to last known good BIOS config.

As for why I think it doesn't reset the BIOS, and only defaulted to last known good settings, is because a truly fresh BIOS requires one to type in the Service Tag number associated with your machine.

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Afterthought:
So there you go, 2 methods there. Both are similar, which involves the CPU. I am not exactly sure about the order, but I believe removing the CPU and the CMOS battery, then boot up the system, and after 30s or so turn it off and it should boot fine again. With my method, the first thing you have to do is to disable the overclocking features in the BIOS, just to be safe.

After I unbricked the system, I still had to swap the GPU around just to test if any of them were dead. Luckily it's just the SLI bridge. I discovered that, if you don't have a SLI bridge attached, although you can't enable SLI, you can still dedicate the 2nd GPU to Physx processing (provided both GPU are working).

Special thanks to Mr. Fox, Mr. svl7, Mr. Omadon, Mr. Onyoto, Mr. ratatouill, Mr. Woodzstack, and all those who provided any form of encouragement or suggestions along the way.

I present to you my primed (max out CPU fan beforehand) wPrime 32M benchmark at 4.1GHz. It's nowhere near 6.2s of Mr. Fox's 4930MX, since I ran the test at room temp close to 80F. If I can figure out ways to prevent PSU the PSU from tripping I might run 3Dmark11, but as of now I am not in a hurry to brick the system again. It doesn't seem like dual PSU mod works on the AW 18 so the M18x R2 will almost always beat the AW 18 in maxed out oc'ed benchmark.



Peace. Take it easy guys.

 

As I said in the previous thread, I'm willing to bet that it had nothing to do with your CMOS battery, since your settings weren't actually reset. It's all to do with not finding a CPU. So you could simplify this greatly and say:

Step 1: Disassemble and remove the CPU
Step 2: Power on the device and let it sit until it reboots itself.
Step 3: Put the CPU back
Step 4: Power on the device to confirm it's working.
Step 5: Power the device back off, then reassemble the machine.

Also, the title on this is VERY misleading, because it will only reset the CPU portion of the BIOS; it does not actually reset the entire BIOS.

 

I am not very sure about the last line you said there, unless you have the AW 18 to prove it to me. As I have said, it goes back to last known good configuration, which involves every settings in the BIOS and not just the CPU settings. For example, I disabled USB Powershare, but after unbricking the system it was enabled again.

I have tried removing the CPU some time ago, without removing the CMOS battery, it didn't work. I will include what you said in the first post.

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences! +1

 

Glad to do my part to help the others. It also serves as a reminder for Dell to hurry up

Maybe instead of having the default CPU throttle temp at 75-77C, it'd be better to give us an option to choose it. Or raise it to 90C.

 

UPDATE (10/25):

I tried to do a mod to increase the pressure on the CPU by adding a few washers to the backplate, and ran into no POST again. I thought I broke something.

So it turns out, to fix the no POST situation. One has to remove the CMOS battery, remove the RAM (or anything else to make the system beep), and let it beep for a while until the computer restarts.

Once it has restarted, you can put the RAM in, and it will beep 5 times (CMOS battery error). Turn off the system, connect the CMOS battery, and it will boot normally again.

I think this no POST problem is related with how the CMOS battery and the BIOS interacts with the CPU. When I removed the CPU to remove the mainboard, I left the CMOS battery connected. So maybe that caused a fault where the CMOS don't see the CPU. Maybe there's some slow tick timer in the CPU.

So the essence to fix it, is to:
1) Remove the CMOS battery,
2) Then make the system beep (many ways to make it beep), wait until it restarts, and starts beeping again (this is crucial, the BIOS gets reset only after the computer restarted),
3) Turn off the system, put in the RAM (or the CPU, if you removed the CPU),
4) Then turn on the system and wait for the 5 beeps, turn the system off,
5) Connect the CMOS battery and it should boot as normal.

The BIOS settings will go back to its first boot configuration. You could say it resets it. I correct what I said about it going back to last known good configuration. It's more like reset, but it sets the settings back to what they were when you first booted up the computer.

The key to resetting the BIOS, is not with the CPU, but it's the CMOS battery. Maybe it's how it works, to clear the CMOS the system needs power. So it has to be powered on to clear it.

EDIT: The above method may not work everytime, sometimes you have to keep repeating it for a while, until it decides to reset the BIOS. The moment you hear a 5 beeps, then you know it's all good.

 

This needs to be bumped again so more people can find it.

If the steps do not work, as soon as the thing stops beeping and the light go out, immediately slap one of the SO-DIMM module in without powering it off and let it start beeping 5 times. Power it off at this point and then it should work. I have needed to do this several times lately to recover from BIOS settings that the Alienware 18 decided it did not like any more. (BIOS settings that used to be good, and magically stopped being good after a BIOS update from Alienware.)

 

God damn it. I applied a profile in XTU and now my AW 17 won't boot. I just get a nice plain black screen. What are my options other removing the palm rest to get to that bloody CMOS battery?

Mr. Fox, what do you mean by slap on an SO-DIMM? My FX lights are on when powerin on, but the three little lights don't appear at all.

 

Follow the steps that Mr. Fox has outlined here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-18-m18x/751794-alienware-18-bios-a07-4.html#post9646431

There should be a tiny button near the SODIMM bank. One beside each bank (there's 2 banks, one top of the mainboard, one at the bottom). That's the power button. Not sure how it's for the 17, but on the 18 if you remove the palmrest the power button is also removed, since it's on the palmrest.

I'd like to add that after you're done and the system boots, go back to the BIOS and disable any CPU overclocking, before enabling it later on.

Also beware when adjusting settings in XTU, especially regarding negative core offset voltage and negative cache offset voltage. Basically, although I have no proof for it, I believe setting a negative cache offset voltage would brick the system everytime.

The steps aren't hard, but it requires a certain level of confidence and comfort of working with the system. There's another way of reviving it, if you have another 4700MQ lying around, try swapping the CPU and the system should boot again.

It seems like since Haswell Dell doesn't really bother with a fail safe method of resetting the BIOS anymore.

 

I've just remove d the bios battery without removing the palm rest. God knows how haha,. Just about to remove the memory modules and then drain the power. Hopefully this kicks my board back in to gear. I'm pretty sure the settings I applied were to boost the turbo and the 4 cores.

 

Ok guys, I managed to get my no post situation sorted thanks to following Mr. Fox's guide. I sorted this out without having to remove the mobo from the main chassis. I got a very fine plastic chinese food stick, then slide it through the chassis on to the front of the CMOS battery. I then pushed the CMOS battery back gently and lifted it up and then lay the battery half on the plastic prongs that hold it down on the contacts. I did this after powering down for 30 seconds and then removing the modules. Upon powering on, to my relief the computer beeped 5 times then rebooted, upon rebooting I immediatly dropped one of my modules into the SO-DIMM bank. Upon the computer powering back on.. woohoo.. F2 baby! cleared the overclock settings and now back to normal, but running at 3.4 max boost I guess I should of listened to you Mr. Fox. There really is no pushing this 4700MQ.

 

You can push it, but you will need to change the turbo boost power and the core voltage. Basically, the stock settings are no good.

My 18 had the 4700MQ inside. If memory serves me right, 4 core turbos is limited to a max multiplier of 34 34 34 34. You can have 1 core going up to 36 I think. Go up to 4800MQ you will have slightly higher turbo boost multiplier headroom. Go all the way up to 4930MX and everything is unlocked.

 

Perfect, hitting 3.6ghz now. Thanks kh, much appreciated.

 

It's unfortunate and kind of shameful that we have to resort to silly gyrations like this. It shouldn't be made this difficult.

They are hard to see, but the Alienware 17 has some contacts on the motherboard undernearth the chassis housing between the main battery and SO-DIMM slots. If you look through a hole in the chassis with a flashlight very carefully you can find them. The motherboard is labeled "CLR CMOS" next to these contacts. (There are also contacts next to them labeled "CLR ME" or something like similar.) These contacts are designed to be bridged like jumpers with a metal tool to clear the CMOS, but they are darned near impossible to see, much less access. These contacts are under the Alienware 17 chassis frame near the area embossed with "BATTERY CONNECTOR" and you can see them through the small square hole in that area.

If you can get a bent flat-blade screwdriver or a paper clip with a small "L" bent on the tip of it and reach in just right, you might be able to bridge the contacts to clear the CMOS. I don't have a 17 to try this with to see if it works. I found these contacts by accident when I had one for a while and had the motherboard out of the chassis. The Alienware 18 has similar contacts, but I forgot where they are located. If mine ends of not being able to POST again, I will go look for them and take photos that I can share. If bridging the contacts works instead of following the steps below, I will confirm that.

 

I will look out for it if mine has no POST again. I just had one two days ago, after flashing back to A05 from A07.

Not sure why but I think my core voltage is not high enough, it works fine when the computer is running/benching, but when I restarted it after running Cinebench it went into no POST. Sometimes I just don't know why, but most often than not it's getting rather annoying I would rather not waste time tweaking it anymore. I have a stable setting for 4.2GHz and another 3.9GHz which I use most of the time.

 

I can confirm that there is indeed contacts. There's a very, very small opening to get maybe a T5 down there. It seems very poorly designed this "newer" build. If it wasn't for the fact that the mobo supported 4th gen i7's, I'd be trading this up against an 18x R4.

I hear you. I too won't be messing with anymore settings. I've learned a lot today in terms of clocking the 4 cores, voltages ext. I've filled my craving for knowledge until the 880m vbios is released.

 

This is good news guys

 

If it works, yes... it would be good really news. Someone will have to test it to find out if it works.

 

I may be that person testing it out if I can't manage to pull myself away from OC.

 

Hi
Was it because of the new bios a10? And which adjustment in Xtu crash your computer?

 

No, it was because I applied an OC profile which was using these values - 3.6ghz with OC gaphics frequency (can't remember by how much). Upon restarting.. black screen. Solved my problem by pushing my CMOS battery back and lifting so it was ledged on top of the seating prongs, then removing all my modules from the DIMM bays. Upon powering on, 5 beeps, let it restart, as it's restarting quickly place one your memory modules back into a DIMM bay, the mobo should POST then.