Have you all read this?!
How Much Prettier is Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition? - IGN
They stated that this version looks significantly better than the PC version. So, my new Alienware 18 is going to be outdone by a $400-500 console?! How can they achieve this on a console?
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This version of Tomb Raider isn't even available on PC, yet. It is expected to be released at the end of this month. I'm assuming it looks better for a number of reasons, the main reason being it was improved, probably specifically for console. It is interesting to see the latest console's running games, though. They look excellent on 240Hz LED TV's. As for it performing better on a console: No, it doesn't. Does it appear to perform better on console? Probably, yes.
bumbo2 likes this. -
I agree with Brother J.Dre. How any game looks on PC or console is largely determined by the amount of time effort the game developers put into it. This is one of the reasons console to PC game ports often suck. If they spent more time and effort on the PC version it would look better than what a console is capable of delivering.
bumbo2 likes this. -
I guess my main concern behind this is if this trend continues for more multi-platform games. I'd hate to see all games released on console from this point going forward end up looking equal to, or, in some cases, better than PC. I mean, who wants to see their $4000+ gaming PC get trumped by a $400-500 console...
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Hold up, and now, this?! Dell is claiming that their Alienware Steam Box will be on par with current gaming notebooks. Man, I swear, if I see Steam Boxes and the new consoles performing on par with the $4000 laptop I just ordered, I'll flip!!!
This is Alienware's Steam Machine -
The problem is what a "gaming notebook" really is. <laugh> I don't think anyone with an 18 M18x really has much to worry from these small machines. One thing we all know is companies are greedy and want to make money. There is no way they would sell such performance for $500, especially when they make so much more now.
It's probably more on par with maybe the 14 which wasn't very fast from what I've read (which is very little even though I own the previous gen 14...wife uses it and that's why)...
I think console games look better/poor maybe on PC because they tend to just be straight ports with no higher patches/fixes. Do that with some mods and it's a world of difference. I'd recommend typically just waiting for a bit for the PC version to be out and you're good to go.
The reviewer's post may also have to do with possibly playing on a 4k TV...Obviously, 4k is a lot more lines than a PC pushing 1080p so when both are using the same 4k TV, it's hard to find anyways the console hardware can perform as well.Mr. Fox likes this. -
A few things:
-IGN have 0 credibility as far as I'm concerned. Last generation they were blatant PR mouthpieces for a certain console manufacturer the majority of the time. I don't know about this gen but I expect they still know where their bread is buttered.
-Screenshot sell console games. These console fanboys love comparing screen shots to see which console's release is superior and argue which has and extra shrub of grass. A screen shot isn't necessarily worth 1000 words in gaming. I bet it doesn't run a frame over 30 FPS and it's also probably upscaled to 1080p.
- Alienware releasing a Steambox. I'm not sure on the details but I doubt it's very different to a low spec X51 with a new shell and Steam OS pre loaded. You can easily install Stream OS on your 18 and watch it spank. -
Yea, I'm definitely confident that the frames won't exceed 30fps, and even if it runs native 1080p on, let's say, the PS4, there will still be a limitation on AA, shadow detail, ambient occlusion, etc. But, I do understand that there will be times when the console version of a game might end up looking better than PC because the developer made it that way.
Mr. Fox likes this. -
Pretty sure I read that the Xbox one and PS4 still only out put a 720p picture when gaming but are locked to 60fps. This goes a long way to explain how they achieve their respective image quality. How easy does an AW18 with 780m Sli pushing 1080p with 60fps. I also read they use AMD 7890(PS4) and 7850(Xbox one) GPU's with AMD Jaguar core CPU's. As titles progress and graphics improve you will still be gaming strong at 60fps thanks to better drives and more outright power. Where as the consoles will still have the graphics they were born with and remain that way for another 8years. I spent my hard earned money on an investment in future gaming in glorious detail. a Console gamer spent his money on a box that will only ever do one thing and remain at the same graphics for the rest of its days.
Mr. Fox likes this. -
meh, i dont believe it,
ive seen the real deal, i have ps3 and i do know that its way much more better picture and graphics on my my alienware rather than on my PS3, its really spot on if you know the differences. (example : Dead Space 3 , Bioshock 2, Hitman Absolution, and the Tomb Raider itself) -
TurbodTalon Notebook Virtuoso
You have nothing to worry about, Vauros. There's no such thing as getting something for nothing. Someone always pays, even if it isn't evident who it is. Consoles do have very powerful processors, but that's about it. They use smallish mechanical HDDs, and single last-gen GPUs.
Everything on the consoles is extremely optimized to squeeze every bit of performance. Pictures are doctored and numbers are inflated. But you also have to remember that consoles are where the money is.
If it were possible to run an identical 3D benchmark both on a current-gen console and your laptop, there would be an evident difference. There aren't any apples-to-apples comparisons other than doctored screen shots and hearsay. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. -
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DirectX came about in an age where every computer had a graphics chip (or two or more for 2D and 3D) and each of those graphics chips had, pretty much, their own API. In addition to that, PC gaming was growing rapidly. The problem with having 10,000 different customers with 10,001 different hardware configurations was the fact that every developer had to program their game from the ground up. So developers were spending huge amounts of time and resources in developing for Glide, OpenGL and other APIs, just for one game. Most older games would present you a choice at the very beginning (or had separate executables!): Glide, OpenGL, or whatever, and you'd then start playing a version of the game you wanted to play that used one of those APIs as a render-path.
DirectX sought to unify all of this, and it did so in a great way, at the start. Suddenly, 98% of all PC owners (and pretty much 100% of all PC gamers) had DirectX, and the GPU manufacturers just had to make drivers that translated the Direct X calls into calls that can be understood by their cards. Developers were happy and PC gaming took off.
Fast forward to about 2005, about the time when the Xbox 360 and PS3 came out. Suddenly the game development landscape looked entirely different: There are now only two major players in the GPU market and video games as a whole have become so complex that most dev studios couldn't afford to develop their engines from scratch, so the licensing of engines became common practice. This has the major advantage that games will be cross-platform almost instantly if you license an engine that's already been ported (Unreal Engine is one of the more common cross-platform engines).
Suddenly, the burden of development lies mostly with content creation and mechanics, and less with nuts-and-bolts technical issues, hence the recent explosion of Indie developers. That's all fine and well, but this whole time, DirectX hasn't really changed apart from the fact that it's gotten 100x more features and maybe a little more efficient. Engines developed for consoles continued to see major strides in what they could achieve on limited hardware, while the PC was largely stuck with the inefficiencies of DirectX. That's also all fine and well, but the new consoles are out, they share the exact same hardware as PCs, yet they've got so much more potential. Why? Because PCs still rely on DirectX.
DirectX is still acting like there's dozens of different GPUs out there from dozens of different manufacturers and presents a lot of processing overhead to try and provide a hardware abstraction layer between game and metal. Such a thing is unnecessary with a console, since the hardware never changes, developers can access the hardware almost directly without having to go through layers of software to do it. On the PC, hardware variations are also becoming more and more irrelevant. CPUs are more or less compatible with one another, there are only two major GPU vendors, audio has been standardized and abstracted to the point of irrelevance, the same with input.
The only wildcard is graphics, and with AMD's Mantle coming out, we're going to enter a second Golden Age of PC Gaming, where middle-of-the-road hardware will be able to achieve things only high-end hardware running under DirectX can dream of.
I think that, in the future, PC gaming will really begin to shine and all the benefits of having all that faster hardware will finally come to fruition.TurbodTalon, ltcmdrQ, sy5tem and 1 other person like this. -
TurbodTalon Notebook Virtuoso
When there are only two major console manufacturers that magically seem to release similarly-powered systems within a few months of each other, well, yeah. I can't really think of another industry where it is acceptable to pull that kind of bullcrap. New CPUs and GPUs are typically released annually, along with golf clubs, bicycles, cell phones, automobiles and damn near every other type of consumable.
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Do any of you own an Xbox One or PS4? If not, do you plan to get one to play the exclusives and enjoy the one-off multi-platform games that end up looking better than the PC port? I returned my Xbox One, but I still have my PS4 and I'm on the fence on whether I want to keep it.
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And right now, with the new big console both being X86 with AMD GPU. future game port should be much better , since they would have minimal code to change...
the next couple of years i think will be really nice years for PC gaming. -
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All that said, the major failing of consoles from all my PC days are PC games have MODS...lots of them...
Also, the most important point is a PC can be used for work...I use mine 24x7 for Quickbooks Enterprise. Lastly, PC games (if you are patient) are insanely cheap. We're talking $1 when a humble bundle comes out with decent AAA type games or 75% off on Steam for pretty much anything...
The exclusives are the only thing, but after paying $500 for a console and another 20-60 for the game, I sorta rather play something old, but good and be happy...There's also emulators on PCs which you can start running any old console as well...
You only have so much time anyways (assuming you're an old fart like me with kids and endless work)...so by the time I have time for the exclusives, it's ALSO on the PC for CHEAP and I can play it at a higher rez as well (think Dark Souls)...
Since I always believe companies are "GREEDY", they will eventually want to put their game on the PC too. If not, there seems to be a PS3 emulator as well. I wouldn't mind playing Last of Us myself. -
In reply to the OP - this weekend I had the pleasure to experience ACIV live on a PS4, on a 30" FHD high-quality IPS panel TV. Words cannot describe my feelings of... superiority. It didn't even come close to ACIV on my M18x R2. Rest your head folks - for now, console gaming graphics are still light years away from the big-guns in the PC industry.
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For laptop users, we at least have multi-functionality and portability on our side
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Yea. I've played AC:IV on current gen consoles and I can't wait to see the vastly improved visuals on my AW 18.
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Oh please, it will probably run @30FPS on those potatoes
By the way. 30FPS is, according to a lot of peasants, "silky smooth". Gah. -
Meaker@Sager Company Representative
No it does not outperform a $4000 PC, of course not. Now can we go back to enjoying what we have.Mr. Fox likes this. -
Wait, 30 FPS is perfect for Angry Birds and Windows 8 app store games. We all know that anything more than that is a waste of money... right?? :laugh:
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What's funnier is these consoles "only" have 1 graphics card...Which is slower than the 780m to begin with. You could also always hook up a laptop to the nice big screen TV and game as well...I'd have to try that one day, but when your machine is nicely sitting on your desk all plugged in, I'm not in much of a mood to move it with rugrats running about the house neither.. Maybe if the kids were "gone" on vacation while I had a staycation (think Al Bundy)
Mr. Fox likes this. -
My laptop is hooked up to the TV almost permanently. I love it that way.
Mr. Fox likes this. -
TurbodTalon Notebook Virtuoso
Mr. Fox likes this. -
Meaker@Sager Company Representative
Mr. Fox likes this. -
This is where that 3D Rage Pro's 75MHz core clock and 16MB of 100MHz SGRAM running at 800MB/s really shines. :laugh:TBoneSan likes this. -
With the slow sales of desktop pcs (people blame Windows 8 for that but in reality it's just that the AVERAGE consumer pc that was built 3 years ago is plenty powerful to do email, web browsing, and Facebook apps therefor customers are going to smartphones and tablets instead of buying desktops or they just aren't upgrading at all) it could be that gaming companies are looking at Microsoft as being weak and that something else is needed other than DirectX.
Something like Mantle could be that as long as AMD decides to not make it proprietary. If they want full acceptance of their low level API then they need to keep it as open as possible. Then it could gain traction cross platform.
If anyone wants a good read on why opengl failed against DirectX then I would suggest the answer provided on here. linux - Why do game developers prefer Windows? - Programmers Stack ExchangeTBoneSan likes this. -
Good points. General use PC sales declined, but gaming PC's increased. This says alot. Basically the enthusiasts know what they need... and direct X isn't cutting the mustard so well anymore.
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Meaker@Sager Company Representative
All i know is more options are good for consumers
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From the programmers stack exchange link above:
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Meaker@Sager Company Representative
Lol, hopefully mantle will give ms a good kick.
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Fragmentation vs optimization.
On consoles they know the hardware. They can optimize the code for the hardware. Just look at console exclusive titles and how much better they are than multiplatform titles. For example Last of us. This is on 256 meg grapich card!
When you program for multi platform the least common hardware is optimized. That's why Steve Jobs obsoleted fully working macs just to raise to lowest common ground. PC is totally different. Microsoft whole buisness is to keep company customers happy.
Fragmented vs optimized leads to two different approaches.
Brute force Vs Optimized. We see this all the time in the computer world.
On PC we had brute force. It worked since X86/graphics doubled in performance each 18 month,
Back in 2002 DVD compression was the hight of technology. I spent 10K on the fastet PC there were. 1.5ghz Athlon, SCSI10K drives and so on. Compress 90 minute of video took 15 hours. I tried to compress on my 667mhz Apple laptop: under 90 minutes. Optimized code vs fragmented.
We see this every benchmark with Android vs iOS. Apple have dual core 1.3ghz and are faster then most quad core 2ghz. We all know that in raw horse power Android have faster stuff, but with optimized code iOS is faster. When you control the hardware and software you can do fun stuff. Apple use almost 50% of their die area to specific stuff that they want to use in their OS like DSPs and noise cancellation.
This is why controlled hardware is better for customers. You get more performance of less hardware cost. Windows Mobile is great example. It just need 1/4 the computer power that Android need = possible cheaper hardware.
The problem with controlled hardware is less competition in that hardware and stagnation. WinPhone is a great example. No one can build a windows phone that is not certified by MSFT = you can never have the latest hardware. (unless MSFT starts to design its own ARM SoC that in par with the latest).
I want less multi platform titles and optimized titles. The console exclusive titles have always been better.
PC exclusive titles have also been better.
I really dont see the point with XboxOne/PS4 now when they are generic X86 hardware. Until this gen all high end consoles have been years ahead of PC in hardware. This is the first time its much worse.
2005 when Xbox360 came it used a 3 core PowerPC G5. Way ahead of every single PC at the time (back then the world fastest PC was PowerMacG5 and Xbox used the same CPU as a 3K workstation) No wonder that MSFT/Sony subsidized hardware 300dollar/console.
Now they dont subsidize. The strange thing is that MSFT/Sony still take their 50% cut certificate software. Before this was justified because of subsidized consoles since consoles are not subsidized they should stop take 50% cut! Its absurd with a 60-70 dollar minimum price for a game.
How is this possible?! How can a console outperform a $4000 AW 18...
Discussion in 'Alienware 18 and M18x' started by VAUROS, Jan 6, 2014.