Buy a refurb R2 or get a Desktop - Opinions needed.

Ok so i have around 2k to spend, i can add a few hundred more if the machine is right.

I currently have the beast in my sig. I bought my m18 about 1.5 years ago and before that i had an m15x (for sale btw) My girlfriend lived about an hour away so we would stay at her place on the weekends (she lives on the lake) plus i traveled for work.

Now my life is slowing down a little and i am moving to her place and working remotely so i will be much more stationary than in years past. So here is the question:

Should I

A) Sell the computer in my sig, by an r2 with some low end GPUs and spend the money from my rig on dual 780s
B) Buy an r2 with 1 675mx and put that GPU in my r1 and take my 680s and put them in my R2 and keep my r1 as a backup computer
C) Keep my r1 as is and spend about 2300 on an Alienware Aruora r4 with a GTX 690 and have my r1 as my mobile machine

There are some good deals on R2s on ebay right now but i am just having issues deciding if i will have time or the need for 2 beast computers (see option C) and im not sure that option B makes sense when option C is on the table. Option A seems like a lot of money to spend just to have 780s

Note all of the laptops i am looking at have the 3920xm processors

I know you cant decide for me but i am just asking what you guys would do. Part of me wants Option B and/or C because i have had TONS of hours on my beast and would be sad to see it go but then again 780s and the xm processor makes me giggle lol but on the further side note, a single desktop 690 would prlly whip the crap out of SLI 780Ms

So... Opinions?

 

I will say whatever you go stay with a laptop, if you can have a high end gaming machine and being able to take it anywhere in one bag... go with it. I have been thinking about getting an AW desktop since I got my M17 R1, but I always think that I can have a gaming machine and be able to take it anywhere instead of having it there on my house. Even that I usually don't play out of my house I still prefer to get an amazing laptop . That's why I'm building a M18x

BTW why you want to buy a R2 if you can change 4 things to your R1 to make it an R2?

 

Yeah i am with you on that except i can get a lot better performance out of a desktop, plus ease of upgrading is amazing compared to a laptop.

I dont want to convert my r1 because i want the warranty, i have toyed with the idea though but to get the xm processor and mobo and all the other components it will be a little over 1k with no warranty and dell wont sell a warranty for a converted machine.

 

If you decide to go desktop, I would say skip the 690. Sli 680s are faster. Sli 770s are faster. Sli 780s are faster.

Since you have an r1 though, might not be a bad idea to keep it. Either upgrade the r1 as main machine, probably fine, or get the desktop as secondary.

I have a desktop, 3820 @4.6 and sli 680s as my main rig. I had an r4 17" but just recently sold it as it wasn't getting much love. Missing having a laptop though, but it was just a touch too big for me personally, but if it had sli and similar performance to my desktop, I probably wouldn't have been so keen to let it go.

Also I have tried to find a reference, but my understanding was that 680m was roughly 670 performance, 780m was roughly 680 performance, and therefore 780m sli should give you roughly 680 sli performance, which if correct is definitely higher than 690 performance. Meaning because of clockspeeds the 680 sli trumps the 690 slightly.

Agree on the upgrade factor of desktops though. Good luck!

 

Maybe I am missing something but why do you want an R2? Your R1 already has the second best GPU solution. You can just put in an XM chip into that. One of your options is to upgrade to 780s but why not just do that for the R1? I would definitely buy the desktop and just keep your R1 as it's basically maxed out. The differences between the R1 and R2 are minimal and IVY bridge is going to have no impact on gaming.

 

i can get a 2920xm but the 3920xm is much faster that is really the only reason.

I am leaning towards the option C of buying a desktop and leaving my laptop as is. We will see though, i have been away from desktops for so long i am having to relearn the GPU market there. The 690 is by FAR the fastest card out with its dual GPUs... just trying to see if it out performs 680 SLI.

 

It doesn't. This much I can assure you. And it's easier to overclock the 680s as thermals are better, providing your case air flow is fine.

But I strongly encourage you to consider 770sli or go crazy and get 780sli. 770s are optimized 680s clocked a multiple faster. 780 is essentially a titan with fewer shaders and less memory, like 90-95% titan performance.

That being said what resolution and what refresh rate are you gaming at? 1080p @ 60hz even a 680 won't give you too many problems. If you are looking for 1440 or 1600 resolutions having more vram may be an issue

 

1080 @ 144hz. My budget is 2k, i dont think i can get 780 SLI for 2k, still yet if the single 690 is a couple hundred less than 680 SLI and only loses a few % that seems like the best option.

GTX690 or GTX 680 SLI? - Graphics Cards - Graphics & Displays

That thread seems to suggest that the 690 and the 680 SLI are neck and neck and this seems to be backed up by all the benchmarks i have seen. If this is the case, why not go with less heat and power draw and grab the 690?

 

Why not just save it and put it into an investment item like a CD or Mutual/ETF fund. Why do people always have to spend their money on a new laptop to get only 5-10% more performance out of it.

The difference between a 2920xm and 3920xm is only 10 % difference at most per clock. They both overclock to the same levels, depending on the cpu. That 10% difference is not going to do jack to make your gaming any better.

 

why not keep your m15x, upgrade it with xm & 680m/7970m and sell your r1 to get a desktop?

 

I am currently running 2 small startup businesses as well as working for my father to take over a 3rd, i am 23 years old and already have a few grand in my 401k as well. My Fiance is in vet school so instead of investing in a CD or ETF and getting maybe a couple points a year (which also sounds good) i would rather put this money towards my hobby which is gaming.

That 10% may not be much to you but i dont plan on upgrading again for at least 3+ years so i want to get the best now so i dont feel like i need to upgrade any sooner.

The m15 is nice but even on trips i would rather carry the extra bulk of the m18 rather than sacrifice performance going back to my m15. I have 2k and i found a desktop (aurora r4) for 2100 it has the 690 in it as well as the 3820 processor and 32 gigs of ram so selling anything wont affect buying the desktop. The m15 is going up for sale very soon along with my Fiance's old Asus g73 just to get them out of the closet. My r1 will be my backup computer no matter what i choose as my primary.

Thanks for all the ideas guys

 

For me that 10% was the best thing I did. It let me save over 20K by the time I was your age, 32 now, and finish college debt free when my other peers were raking up debt like no tomorrow. But you look like you are on your way to something good. Most kids your age are still sucking their thumbs and asking mommy about a bottle, haha. I also run my own little ebay business that is finally taking off and still working a real job.

Anyways, If I was you, I would go for the desktop, but I would built it myself. And 32gb is a lot of memory. My not 8gb or 12gb now and upgrade later on. Dell charges so much for upgrade parts.

I know about wanting a r2, I just got my some weeks ago and love it. Got a awesome deal on it since the side is a little damaged but it doesn't affect performance in any way. Its just that many people pasted on the change to buy it just for that little damage, not bad for 1600.
3630qm cpu
7970 crossfire gpu cards
500gb HD
12gb ram
7 months warranty left on it.

 

Several records in laptop benchmarking were made with a 2960-XM processor, and the 3940-XM processor didn't pass it by much. I honestly don't see the use of buying an M18x R2 when you've already upgraded the most important component in your M18x R1 - the GPUs. A 2960-XM processor will be more than enough for even the 780M SLI configuration if you decide to go for those. It will save you a lot of hassle and money. The way I see it, if you want to get rid of your M18x, might as well sell it, get a base config Alienware 18 with 780M SLI, and just upgrade the processor later on. I think it will work out cheaper than getting an M18x R2 and upgrading to 780M SLI

 

Regarding the 690, If you can get it cheaper than 2x 680s, then yes that would be the option to go for. They are similar in performance, 690 is just 2 underclocked 680 gk104 cores with less power feeding them after all. Traditionally it has been $1000. 770s will probably be $450 each, 680s should be less now. I have actually seen them on sale for $350 recently, was tempted to pick up a third. But if you can get the 690 for less than $800 not a bad deal!

At 144hz -(try light boost btw) you will need at least a 690. I am running the same monitor with 680s. You may find yourself spoiled though, be warned. This is why the laptop is gone.

 

Sounds like a good deal, and thank you, yes the return on 2k put into an investment like that can yield considerable gains in 10 years and if i were in your position i would be saying the same thing to me lol but i am somewhat comfortable, i have a nice car a great fiance my businesses are less than a year old but are starting to move in the right direction, i am taking more responsibility at the family company and will more than likely get a small slice of ownership in the next 5 years give or take (not up to me i wish it was haha) While i certainly can never say i have enough money i am in a position to say instead of saving this little chunk i would like to reward some of my efforts.

As far as not upgrading RAM, the computer i found is worth over 3k, the guy is just trying to get rid of it at 2k. I am not building this at dell i found it already completed on ebay.

Warranty is a big deal to me and so is lifespan, while i dont consider my computer old by any stretch it will show wear and tear sooner than an r2 simply because its over a year older. There may not be a ton of difference between those 2 CPUs but again 1 is the latest and greatest and 1 is last gen, if i am going to spend the money now on something and not upgrade again for a long time i want to go ahead and get the best, even if it is only a 10% gain. Selling my m18x and buying a new m18 is not an option because i really dont like the new design plus i cant see paying 2700 bucks for a base m18 with 780s when i can pay 2300 for an r2 still under warranty with the 3920xm and 680 SLI. As far as upgrading the processor later, i want to avoid this too, i dont want to worry with upgrading again for a long time. Thanks for the ideas though.

The computer with the 690 is already built, but if i were building at dell, they dont even offer the 680s, they offer 670 SLI and that is a 750$ upgrade vs the single 690 which is 800$ upgrade, 50 bucks for less heat and power draw plus i can add a kickass sound card if i so choose.

I am thinking of building it myself too but again warranty is a big deal to me so i am just trying to make a wise decision here.

 

I don't really think getting a new computer for a cpu that's 10% better and has no impact on gaming is wise. You say warranty is very important so my guess is you aren't a big overclocker. It makes way more sense to just upgrade your rig to the 780s when they are available. Getting rid of a maxed out rig only to upgrade to a very slightly better cpu for 2k honestly makes no sense. Even for an enthusiast bench gamer it wouldn't make sense. Get a desktop. It keep your rig. It's completely current and short of investing in a m 18, you are really wasting money here....any way you slice it.

Also every part comes with a warranty. So don't worry about building yourself. It just takes time to rma everything.

 

If you read my sig you will see that the 3940xm is way more than 10% better than what i have, its 10% better than the 2940xm which i dont have and was suggested earlier to save money. What doesnt make sense would be spending 1400 bucks on 780s for a 20% increase over my current 680s... Why spend 1400 on that when i can spend 600 bucks more and get a full r2 with the xm processor and 680s? that is way more than the net 20% gain of just getting 780s over my current setup.

You guessed correctly, im not a big overclocker, but i do want the option to overclock some but this is all a moot point since i dont like the new m18 style and the r2 i am looking at on ebay already has the xm processor for 2k. Not sure why this turned into something about money, i have the money in hand, i have decided to spend it on my hobby and not upgrade for a while after this, i dont see this as a waste, this is going to provide me thousands of hours of relaxation and fun.

I am aware that i can RMA the individual parts if i build my own but i simply cannot build a computer with liquid cooling, and a 690 with comparable specs for 2k.

So again to recap.

I am not buying a brand new machine from dell when i can buy a faster one cheaper on ebay.

I am thinking about building my own but i cant seem to build the same quality for the same price

Warranty is important

 

You don't need to sell me. I actually do just disagree. I see almost zero reason to go from an R1 to an R2 almost solely for a processor that you likely won't overclock. Yet you think adding new gpus for 30% more performance for less money makes no sense?

So you basically are spending 2k for the same system just a different cpu but think it's worth it because it's a deal...gotcha. whatever floats your boat. Your mind is made up as long as it makes sense to you that's all that matters

 

I had a reply written out but i am editing it out, i am not going to continue this argument, thanks for your input but i am simply not interested in spending 1400 bucks on 780s when i can get a full new computer for 2k.

Thanks

 

There is no argument here. Look at the answers you have been given and examine your logic. We are just trying to help you out but it appears you only are looking for the answer that validates a decision you have already made up in your mind. Since you didn't know some basic things about processors and upgrades I will help you out:
1. You state that your current i72670 is much weaker than the XM chip. This is completely false. In gaming (which you stated is your primary purpose) you will not see any differences. The XM chip is beneficial for those who are heavily invested into benching and tweaking their systems.
2. Your R1 has the 680s already installed. Therefore you have a nearly maxed system so people are concerned that you are spending 2k for a new system that will only offer a new processor/motherboard (which is already outdated by Haswell).
3. You state it's pointless to get 780s due to a "20%" (lower end of the improvement..more like 25-30%) improvement in GAMING. Yet you are willing to get a whole new computer for an XM processor that shows a 10% improvement NOT in gaming but in general benchmarking. Yet you want to game with your machine "for thousands of hours of enjoyment."
4. You don't think you could build a liquid cooled desktop with a 690 for 2k?!

Please accept the advice you are getting here because you might mean well but you are not making sense. There is NO reason to upgrade, from a gaming perspective, an R1 with a VERY FAST stock processor and 680m SLI for an R2 with an XM processor (which will be kept mostly stock) for 2,000. There will be no "thousands of hours gained" in enjoyment by seeing Crysis 3 play at .6FPS higher than on your old system.

I agree with you, it makes NO sense to upgrade to 780m SLI for 1400 but that was my point. It doesn't make sense, for you, to upgrade to 780m SLI for a20-25% improvement in gaming when you have 680mSLI. However it makes a whole TON of sense to do it IF you are debating getting a new R2 with an XM chip and 680m SLI instead!

Here's what I would do:
1. upgrade to 780m SLI if you have money to burn
2. buy the 2k computer (which I assume doesn't have 680m SLI) and then just put in the GPUs from your system then sell what's left or use the system on integrated gfx
3. Just keep your R1 and build OR buy a custom desktop (Not Alienware for money purposes) and have the best of both worlds.

Those options make sense. If you honestly are going to buy an R2 because "its a whole new computer" and not realize you are buying the exact same computer you have with a slightly better CPU....I will then just say good luck and enjoy your purchase. I hope you get the system and performance you are looking for in your price range.

 

First allow me to say thanks for your input, it is appreciated.

Now:

I am only looking for the answers that validates a decision i have already made.... False, i came here for help in making a decision... unless of course you are talking about my decision to spend 2k on a new computer in which case you are not going to convince me not to do that since its what i would like to spend my money on lol. This is completely about HOW to spend that 2k and not whether i am going to or not.

1. the 2670 is much weaker, 800mhz weaker than the 3940xm stock for stock not mentioning the OC capabilities (which i have already explained i will use a little)

2. Again you are stuck on this r1 vs r2 argument. Allow me to clarify, if i buy the r2 i will sell my r1 and buy 780s, the r2 will then become the primary. OR keep the r1 and put my 680s in the r2, this option doesnt make near as much sense but again it was an option so i included it in my post (see post 1 on this thread)

3. I never said it was pointless, i said it was not worth the cost to upgrade 780s over my 680s. Secondly 10% of my CPU is 220 mhz the 3940xm runs 800 mhz faster stock for stock this is about a 40% increase in performance, i dont expect massive gains in the games i play but i do expect higher benchmark scores, capability to OC, and faster speeds in general. Plus as i stated, if i upgrade my laptop i am buying the best (again see post 1 in this thread), key word here is IF.

4. I certainly could build a liquid cooled desktop with a 690 for 2k, i however dont think i could build one with the same specs as the Aurora i am looking at for that price.

5. Again, im not sure why you seem to be stuck on this r1 vs r2 argument lol, In my first post it clearly says if i buy the r2 i will sell the r1 for 780s or keep the r1 as a backup computer which is the least likely to happen.

6. Then why do you keep bringing 780s up? If my system is fine then lets leave it at that but again i have to refrence my 1st post you seem to be missing the big reason i was considering it which was selling my r1 and getting the r2 with the xm processor and 780s.


And finally what you would do seems very similar to what i proposed in my 1st thread haha (minus the 780 for my r1)

Look man i know you mean well but you have given me the impression you did not read my 1st post and just chimed in here in the latter part of the conversation. I will quote my first post here:

Again see option 1, if i buy an r2 this is more than likely what i will do

Option 2 is there only because if i sell my r1 for 780s my backup computer will be my m15

Option 3 Makes the most sense to me and most others.

My post was for opinions on what others would do. It seems like you would do what i am thinking about doing lol so we are beating a dead horse.

Thanks for the input.

 

Not to beat a dead horse... but I still think option 3 is great. If you can get a used system with warranty remaining and a 690- do it.

 

Yeah i think thats the way i'm leaning, or just building my own with 680s. Thanks for the advice with the GPUs btw

 

Sorry I was at work and only had brief periods to read things you wrote in your first post. The two options "likely" and "less likely" I guess were misinterpreted. I am not advising you on whether or not to spend 2k; it's a relative figure that means different for different people; I have a 4k order right now and for many that's crazy..and maybe it is.

The reason I bring up the 780s is because those alone would make more sense from a gaming perspective than the ridiculous knowledge of overclocking an XM chip coupled with 680m. You also have the base with your CPU+GPU combo. You could sell the GPUs you have and then offset greatly the upgrade to the 780s and then buy an XM chip all for under 2K when it is all said and done. That would be absolutely the BEST thing you could do and I just think that "option" is being overlooked here. That is all.

Regarding buying an R2 and then swapping GPU's you would essentially just be upgrading to an IVY bridge chipset as opposed to just buying an XM chip and throwing it in your R1..and I just don't see why you would do the former.

Finally, yes, you can indeed have a computer built that greatly GREATLY exceeds the spec of the Aurora in question.

Those are the options that I would be considering if you want the absolute best input for the money you have and the return on investment you can get. The reason I say your CPU is fine is because it is just fine for games. If there are any games (maybe 3 or 4) that benefit from a faster CPU, it doesn't show much at native resolution with AA blasting.

The reason most people got R2s were for the 680s right from the factory and the IVY bridge. But IVY is not much of an increase in performance and there is a new chipset out which means you won't easily upgrade your configuration again from a CPU perspective as Haswell is a new chipset. I guess I just see a gamer who has super fast graphics cards looking to spend a lot of money on an XM CPU but going about it in a very very expensive way. That's all I am trying to get across. I am sure many other's would agree with my logic here. Good luck with everything. Peace.

 

I would think you can build a desktop with a 690 for 2k. I built one on newegg with a 7870 for just under 900, monitor included, some weeks ago. I'm more than sure I can get it cheaper if I used "used" parts from here and there, warranty included.

That 690 really sounds sweet.

Upgrading from a 2670qm to an xm processor will make your games run faster. I still have a sager 8150 with that kind of cpu and it maxs out that 2.6 with the turbo. I just installed a 3720qm unlocked ES processor that can overclock to 4.1 and wow what a difference. My movie encoding speeds almost doubled. I sold the old processor in the alienware and picked this one for cheap. Selling the old and getting this one came out to almost free.

 

No problem and i appreciate the input, I have thought of just upgrading my CPU but having a way more powerful machine such as a desktop for 2k is more appealing i think. I think i am going to keep my m18x the same and just get a desktop.

Thanks man

Yeah the benchmarks i have seen are impressive from the XMs i can see there being a big difference in certain games.

The 690 is an absolute beast from everything ive read.

 

Alright guys i have decided to build my own system i think.

@Daveh98 you were right it came out to a little over 2k but it is better than the Aurora i was looking at.

Specs:

Case - Newegg.com - NZXT Phantom 630 CA-PH630-W1 White Steel / Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case

Mobo - Asus Z87

CPU - Haswell i7 - 4770k

RAM - Kingston Hyper-X Beast 16 GB 2x 8 GB

GPU - EVGA Nvidia GTX 690

HDD - Going to use my Crucial m4 for now but will get a pair of samsung 840s later for RAID

PSU - Thermaltake SP-1000 1000w

Liquid Cooler - NZXT x60 Kraken Closed Loop Rad 280 CPU cooler

Price came out to around 2200 before tax.

Thoughts?

 

Don't forget to budget for Windows license, unless you have access through school etc.

That kraken gets pretty pretty good reviews. Before I went hog wild with complete water cooling was seriously thinking about that.

How much is the 690? 770 sli would have a slight edge performance wise but would also generate more heat. If the price is similar something to consider. 770 is essentially an optimized 680 with better memory and improved pcb. 690 of course is just 2x 680 cores underclocked.

 

Also, regarding the 840: I own 3x 830, one 840, and an m4.

Why go raid? The performance gains on raid ssds are cool on paper, but real world I didn't see a huge benefit tbh.

 

I havent researched into raid much yet so that is still up in the air.

The 690 is 1k and the only reason i am foregoing the slight gains with 680s or 770s is because i think in about a year or so i will get a 2nd 690 when the prices come down unless of course at that point something else is out that makes more sense.

I already have windows license i will use.

 

It's been awhile since I have built a desktop or followed it closely. You may want to post over at [H]ardforum and get input. There may be better price/performance CPUs (I have no clue). However, from what I remember, those are TOP notch components. The Thermaltake PSU is awesome and a quality PSU is critical. The case you got is TOP notch too Your cooling is A+ as well. If you don't feel like building you can get a good PC from ibuypower and they are having a 4th of July sale. Check out their site and you can basically customize ANYTHING. There are some mixed reviews but it's overall positive.

My favorite custom PC builder is Falcon-NW (VERY EXPENSIVE) but very nice system to drool at. They put so much effort into their PC customization and their paint jobs are ridiculous. obviously they are out of your price range but still very good vendor. I recently read a very favorable article on Flipboard about their new Tiki computer (super portable and quite powerful). Their Mach-V is really their flagship. However ibuypower offers a lot of customization. I will admit I never really built water cooled PCs so I have to claim ignorance on that. It's just really really important to make sure you have very very clean wiring when you build your PC. If you buy, make sure that they wire the computer well. Many vendors will actually bundle very neatly the wires and spend time having a very clean and organized case. It's usually a very small upcharge but very worth it as I personally have too much ADHD to be meticulous with the wiring. Water Cooling necessitates a flawless internal organization of your components because you will need to disassemble the water cooling when having to work on your CPU/GPUs.

I think you are going in the right direction with your spending though. You are building a beast! I am overspending on the new m18 with the 4900MQ, 16 gig ram, win 8, 780m SLI for 3800 out the door...and your rig will be more powerful for about 1800 less Good luck with the build and keep us posted!

 

Yeah the last computer i built myself had a Pentium 4 in it with a Radeon 9800 in it and that was in the days of non-modular PSUs so keeping clean wiring was very important. I saw Falcon-NW i was impressed but as you said they are crazy high. I decided to burn a little more cash and buy 2 780s for SLI instead of the 690 but yeah im stoked.

Thanks for all the help and you get no judgement from me on your m18 order lol i have the disease too.

 

Oh #### you got the 780s! Gk 110. So jealous. With the 680s I can cap 120fps on almost everything maxed out, but there are a few games where it struggles. I think you are not going to have any problems at all. Trying to hold out for the 880s, but it seems so far away...enjoy your computer man!

 

Haha yeah, spent a little more than i wanted too but the Fiance was cool with it so :thumbsup:

 

Personally I am going to be selling mine. I recently transferred and no longer travel. With the new generation around the corner I figured getting out now is good!

 

And now I see you already bought. lol.