Acer Predator (Vega 56+Ryzen 2) Helios 500

Thought this should have its own thread because it is the second AMD only gaming machine in recent years.

Blurb from Anandtech:

"Jumping into the Predator Helios 500 (PH517-61) laptop, it’s a full-on AMD model of their Helios lineup, featuring an AMD Ryzen 7 2700 processor (2nd gen Ryzan) which is paired with an AMD RX Vega 56 GPU with 8 GB of HBM2. This 17.3-inch laptop offers the customer a choice of either a 1920x1080 144 Hz display, or a 3840x2160 60 Hz IPS display, both of which support FreeSync variable refresh rate. Acer is cooling the laptop with AeroBlade 3D metal fans, and five internal heat pipes to transfer the heat over to those fans. The laptop features a 2.1 speaker setup and Acer TrueHarmony and Waves MaxxAudio, along with Waves Nx head-tracking technology which allows for spatial tracking of your headphones for more realistic 3D audio. We don’t have full specifications yet, but expect it to be similar to the Coffee Lake powered model already launched. Starting price for the Helios 500 AMD model is $2199, with shipments starting in July."


Do we think there is a possibility that the RX Vega 56 could be a MXM format?
Thoughts? @hmscott @Papusan

 

Honestly I highly doubt it's an MXM notebook, hoewver the cooling(at least on the picture), looks really promising. I would love to get some benchmarks from that machine.

 

99% sure its not going to be MXM. The fact that it has HBM2 means it will not have the usual VRAM configuration that you find on MXM cards. It might technically be possible to make an MXM Vega 56, but I highly doubt AMD would put the effort into it. MXM is still seen as a "niche" market. Its a miracle we are still getting nVidia cards on MXM, even if they change the form factor every generation.

 

No in Hell Acer will go with MXM. They use same chassis also for i9-8950Hk and Nvidia... https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/predator-series/predatorhelios500

It's still possible to upgrade ram


Btw. Revews of the same model but with weaker BGA https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Acer-Predator-Helios-500-GTX-1070-i7-8750H-Laptop.304934.0.html

As well see why Acer went for 65w chips... https://www.notebookcheck.net/Ryzen-5-2600-and-Ryzen-7-2700-Review.303828.0.html

Edit... https://www.notebookcheck.com/Mehr-...os-500-mit-Ryzen-geplant-UPDATE.306178.0.html

 

Bravo Acer, Bravo, I tip my hat, The Acer Helios 500 Is an absolute success. This is the first time I've seen a notebook that makes the GPU and CPU run under furrmark + Prime95 GPU (stock thermal paste): 62 (GTX 1070) and CPU 81C (8750H).

This will be the new notebook I will recommend for people, the performance and cooling is superb, it beats everything. The sound is amazing, the emission is low noise, this is a masterpiece.

 

Can we get a 15” version? I’m in for one of those if it’s not too hideous.

 

No.

 

Yeah a near 40mm thick 17.3-inch chassis aint enough. Acer Predator H500's cooling can't cope with more than Gtx1070 + 8th gen Intel or 65w Ryzen 2700 in combo...
The Predator Helios 500 will as well be equipped with a 6C/12T Intel i9-8950HK .
The graphics card is an Nvidia GTX 1070 which is a bit of a let down considering it is paired with the most powerful mobile CPU. But the GTX 1070 is still a very capable GPU and all but the most discerning high-frame-rate gamers will be happy. We suspect the GTX 1070 was used to reduce the load on the cooling system . Acer says they support overclocking of both the CPU and GPU.

 

2400€ for GTX1070 and i9 8950HK? Very cheap, but…




"Hot Surface Warning Do Not Touch"

 

can you PLEASE not post a picture that big? Thanks. As well, I find it a miracle that they managed a Vega 56 in a laptop at all given Vega's usual TDP

 

Definitly interested in something like this

 

Wow, you'd have to get so close in order to read that warning, you'll likely "burn" your face from the hot exhaust before you are close enough to read those little tiny letters.

 

That's how it works, you find a photo, you upload it here, and the system resizes it to fit the post space. There is a 2MB size limit, so "too large pictures" can't be loaded already.

Thumbnails can be selected to display rather than the whole photo, but they are problematic because when you click them they don't resize to the post width, they come up full sized - which for most photo's from most camera's are going to be much larger than 1920x1080.

Besides, I couldn't read those little tiny letters in the resized to post width photo, I had to click on it to blow it up to full sized, and side scroll to see the text and read it.

So at least for this photo, full sized was necessary.

You'll find most photo's here will be too large for you if this one was a problem. Adapt

 

@hmscott

What you think about this version of laptop versus GT75? At least for this price an i9 8950HK, G-Sync, 144Hz, GTX1070...

 

Either one is fine from the perspective of build and price, and the ability to tune for operation, in theory. We will have to wait to see how the Acer Ryzen+Vega perform's and how easy it is to tune for best performance while running cool enough to not throttle.

Given that I'm not interested in investing in Intel CPU's as they exist today. I'm not interested in spending big $'s on a CPU that will be on the junk pile after Intel releases their new CPU architecture.

AMD was affected too to be sure, but not with the same level of performance hits from the mitigations, and not as many vulnerabilities were exposed.

There aren't any reports yet for this Acer Ryzen+Vega, so we'll have to wait for reviewer / user reports, and wait for reviewers / users that know how to tune properly for cool running operation before being able to make an informed decision on which laptop to get.

 

From the perspective of build / build quality. the MSI should be superior. For example Notebookcheck gives the Helios 500 (Intel version) "inferior" rating, while the MSI gets "good" rating. Although either machine are not the kind you by if you wan't the cleanest fit and finish anyway. They should just be seen as boxes to carry those Components + cooling. Or else you will be sorely disappointed in this price range (fit and finish wise).

 

It's always good to provide links when quoting something, especially with notebookcheck as they have various language versions of reviews before the English translation is posted...

Here is the Verdict from Notebookcheck.org's review:

"With its Predator Helios 500, Acer has once again created a gaming beast with more advantages than disadvantages when it comes to games. However, even this 17-inch game machine is far from perfect and therefore requires detailed analysis.

The screen, for example, has written games everywhere. 144 Hz and incredibly fast response times are a great advantage.The color accuracy was excellent once the screen went through our manual calibration process. However, it did not cover sRGB completely and its contrast ratio of only 500: 1 was too low. Therefore, the blacks seemed quite gray to the observer.

The total emissions were more than acceptable considering the level of performance of the device. Users can even choose whether or not they want better cooling performance (Cool Boost) and a slightly overclocked GPU (turbo GPU). With the automatic fan control turned on, the device was quiet enough to integrate seamlessly into most office environments, and even the fans turned off completely from time to time.

The build quality was not perfect, but the plastic body was stiff enough in general. We especially liked the two Thunderbolt 3 ports, but we regret the loss of the SD card reader.

The maintenance is very simple and the updating capacity is excellent. Among other things, users can upgrade RAM (up to 64 GB) and storage (2x M.2 SSD RAID, 2.5-inch hard drive).Unfortunately, M.2 support is limited to SATA and does not include NVMe's fastest protocol.

The sound system was excellent but not as bright as that of its big brother, the Predator 17. The backlit input devices were quite good, and the total weight was quite low considering the level of performance of the laptop.

On the downside, the laptop's idle power consumption was very high, and its battery life quite poor. Neither the webcam nor the microphone were suitable for such an expensive laptop and would have been more appropriate for a $ 400 laptop.

If for some reason you find that these handicaps are too much to bear or the price is too high, the Acer Predator Helios 300, which starts at just over $ 1,000 (GTX 1050 Ti) or $ 1,300 (GTX 1060), could be worth it look more closely. At least we can assure you that this particular notebook was much more energy efficient than the current revision unit.

In short, we will also review the other Helios 500 SKU, the high-end model equipped with Intel Core i9-8950HK (2.9 - 4.8 GHz)."

The word "inferior" didn't come through in the translation to English...anywhere in the review...

Review of the Acer Predator Helios 500 laptop (GTX 1070, i7-8750H)
https://www.notebookcheck.org/Revie...or-Helios-500-GTX-1070-i7-8750H.308338.0.html

Or were you looking at another link(s) with other versions of this review, or reviews of others sku's of the Helio 500?

By reading their review, and Verdict, I'd call it as they called it, "a gaming beast"...

None of the negatives matter to me, the battery life - really? On a dedicated high-end gaming laptop?? sheesh, Webcam / Microphone ? - I disable those anyway, and the screen isn't for color accurate photoshop work - it's for high refresh rate 144hz gaming.

And, Helios 300 "more energy efficient"?? They are obviously looking for a different kind of laptop in their life than the one they are reviewing. Their personal bias is showing through. A high end gaming laptop with a 144hz screen screams it's intent, and it's intent is not "energy efficient" operation.

Never would I expect consummate perfection in materials or fit and finish from a gaming laptop, they are made to be light and affordable.

After using a number of MSI and Acer high end laptop products over many years, in no way have I ever thought that they were inferior or poorly made. My only thoughts have been "awesome laptop", and "wow lets see how this plays my games"!

A Ryzen + Vega laptop going to be a first, so there are likely to be some early teething issues, as with the Asus GL702ZC Ryzen + RX580, but those issues have been worked out with software updates, so it's a great laptop now too.

I'd wait to pass judgement on the Ryzen / Vega version in it's own right, before trying to ruin their prospects as you clearly seem to have intended.

There aren't going to be a lot make / model choices in this AMD Ryzen + AMD Vega GPU combo, at least not from the start, so let's try to work through any issues and help make it a winner for everyone that buys it, rather than kill it with bad words before it even comes out...

What's up with that post anyway?

Are you a AMD / MSI / Acer / Ryzen / Vega hater? Or, what?

 

Nice temps at stock values, im thinking getting one instead of GT75

 

"Gut" means Good, not inferior.
Most problems in the review is about the screen: excessive bleeding, not sRGB, low contrast ratio.

In comparison the GT75 got a "Gut 87%" score, in other words still "Good" but with a slightly higher score. Note that there are two different reviewers and personal preferences always influence scores.

The GT75 also can get really damn loud, maximum 45.2 dBa for the Helios 500 vs 62(!!!) dBa for the GT75. Wouldn't want to have that howling beast near me.

 

@hmscott

Dam, was a laptop sample but there is some throtting, not by temperature...i not want another power throttling like my GT72VR

http://laptopmedia.com/review/acer-...a-monsterbook-featuring-intel-core-i9-8950hk/

 

I was referring to the build quality (or Case) segment of the review; where it scored 71 as opposed to the MSI's 79

The review here was what I would call inferior with panel gaps movement, and creaking

As an aside:
Never go by NBC's Average/overall Rating. it is better to compare their individual scores, so you can decide what aspects are important in your own weighing system.

NBC Average/overall rating has become garbage where everything scores between 80-90 no matter what, with very few exceptions... making the difference between an 80 and an 83 huge

 

Rarely do reviewers undervolt - or tune the fan curve or tune the CPU or tune the FPS (they let it run wide open), which all contribute to higher temperatures, and all laptops these days (and for many years) ship with the CPU voltage too high to cover the wide range of CPU samples that might get built into the laptop.

So what I do is subtract 10c for undervolt and another 5c for proper tuning, to get an idea of the potential, and for most reviews thats enough to drop the temperature under thermal throttling, and that's been true for all of my laptops out of the box - I can get the thermals down far enough to keep it and not need to re-paste or re-pad.

It takes some thought and consideration, not much, but enough that some people panic and either return it or pay someone to re-paste it - or they try to do it themselves, when tuning would have been enough.

The other problem is that people selling the idea of re-pasting / re-padding add the FUD about lower temps make the laptop live longer. In all the years I've been doing this, all my laptops are still running many years later, and haven't been re-pasted.

YMMV, but I suggest doing what you can in the 2 week acceptance period to software tune the things that can be tuned to get the thermals down, and understand that temperatures under thermal throttling - even if they bump it once in a while, are supported as long term running temperatures by Intel and the makers.

The new 6/8-core unlocked CPU's are going to generate short or long high power draw depending on how you OC it, and you will hit a barrier to tune under for stock hardware, and from what I've seen the actual benefit of additional hardware hacking isn't going to provide much of a performance boost, even if the numbers are higher the actual feel to the end user isn't going to matter - it's not worth the effort - just tune for the stock hardware and enough your laptop.

Remember these new high end laptops with 144hz screens are going to put a higher load on CPU / GPU to hit those FPS highs, so be sure to tune the game eye candy - usually it's only 1 or 2 hardly noticeable post-processing items - like motion blur, water, grass, dof, and other filters - you can keep highest textures and quality - tune the software to fit the FPS to less than 100% load on the CPU to keep the thermals under control.

Anyway, the Ryzen + Vega will be built "different" so it's hard to compare to the Intel 6 core 1070 / 1080 results, we need to wait to see what's what - and initially there may be teething issues like the Asus GL702ZC Ryzen + RX580, which were solved with software / firmware updates by AMD / Asus. So be aware that you will be entering into a new world that may take some time to optimize - and as always the bleeding edge has that name for a reason.

After some personal reflection, if you think aren't tough enough to hang or deal with the problems wait for the 2nd generation, or at least wait for 3-6 months after release and keep checking for improvements until you think you are ok with how things are running.

 

If notebookcheck's reviews are not worthy, why did you use their reviews as a definitive comparison to reject both MSI and Acer?

And, you are the one that used a single (incorrectly translated) word to summarize their review vs a point by point commentary?

IDK what's up with you, but you seem to want to summarily dismiss MSI and Acer build quality which isn't valid, at least in all the units I've handled.

Again, these high end laptops have expensive components, and everything that goes into the structural build adde's weight and bulk, so you have to assume and understand that they will be built light - but strong - and there will be flexure to some extent no matter how solid the build - or they will be heavy like the new Alienware models.

All of my MSI and Acer laptops are excellently built, and I've been very happy with them.

 

?? Not the point at all. Was just saying originally that the MSI's Chassis will be "Better Built"; I mean lets face it, its an Acer.

Nothing dismissive of the whole package, and in fact never said anything negative about the MSI at all. Just that in comparing the 2 reviews (and I also have had hands on both previous models) the MSI is built better / more precise. (yes this is conjecture until the new Acer ships... but its Acer, they won't change much)

Was trying to communicate that there is much to be desired from The Acer's Chassis quality; and that should not be high on your priority list if considering this machine.

Build quality is high enough on my list that I would seriously consider the competition if I was in the market for such a large DTR. But I still think the Acer has fantastic points to draw on.

 

We just tested the all-AMD Acer Predator Helios 500 gaming laptop-Pcworld.com
The Vega 56 in the Helios 500 hit a pretty respectable 80 fps vs. GeForce GTX 1070 cards who sit in the 90 fps range. Aka compare this AMD graphics with Gtx 1080 is nothing other than dumb. Or maybe better say pure foolish.

 

This is a very shallow / quick on the fly in the Conference Demo Booth review that didn't have time to test a range of games or benchmarks, nor does it tune any of the AMD CPU / GPU tunables - or even mention if they can be tuned.

It's early days, and like the first Asus G702ZC Ryzen + RX580 software updates improved tuning and performance.

It is nice to see the big time reviewers have an interest, and hopefully Gordon and other reviewers will do more in depth testing, including performance and thermal tuning using AMD / Acer software.

I wonder how much the mobile Ryzen 56 as indicated it uses can be tuned?

We just tested the all-AMD Acer Predator Helios 500 gaming laptop
Here's how fast the new Predator Helios 500 is with Ryzen 7 2700 and Radeon Vega 56 graphics
By Gordon Mah Ung Executive Editor, PCWorld | JUN 6, 2018 7:12 AM PT
https://www.pcworld.com/article/327...d-acer-predator-helios-500-gaming-laptop.html

"The new Acer Predator Helios 500 has enthusiasts of both Intel and AMD covered. That’s because you can now choose from the model shown here, which is built around an Intel CPU and Nvidia graphics, or go all AMD with the version you see at the top of this article.

The AMD version of the Helios 500 features a 17-inch, 144Hz FreeSync Panel; 32GB of DDR4; a 256GB M.2 SSD; and 1TB HDD. And most importantly for AMD fans, it features an 8-core Ryzen 7 2700 and Radeon Vega 56 graphics.

The CPU is the desktop Ryzen 7 2700. It’s an 8-core chip with SMT for 16-threads of computing power. It’s also likely the fastest CPU around for many multi-threaded loads. In Cinebench R15, for example, we saw the Helios 500 spit out a score of 1,512.

(For reference, a Ryzen 7 2700X is in the 1,800 range. That X part does hit higher clock speeds, though.)

As far as we’re concerned, the performance of the Radeon Vega 56 chip is even more interesting. We know from our review of the desktop part that it punches beyond its class, and likely caused Nvidia to release the GeForce GTX 1070 Ti in response.

Although we thought the Radeon Vega 56 was a re-purposed desktop chip, we were told that, no, it’s a part that always been intended for mobile use.

That tells us it may very well be the very first sighting of the Radeon RX Vega Mobile chip that AMD talked up at CES. Mind you, this is not the same graphics core used in Intel’s Kaby Lake G, that unprecedented Intel/AMD collaboration.

As its name implies, the Radeon Vega 56 should be a full Vega 56 part. We only had one benchmark available to run, but it’s pretty modern—Ubisoft’s Far Cry 5. We set the laptop to 1920x1080, selected Ultra and also switched off FreeSync to prevent it from interfering with any results.

We know public results of a desktop GeForce GTX 1060 6GB cards are in the 70 fps range and GeForce GTX 1070 cards sit in the 90 fps range. The Vega 56 in the Helios 500? It hit a pretty respectable 80 fps, but it’s still definitely short of a full desktop Vega 56, which actually pushes the 110 fps range in this game.

Given the thermal limitations of laptops, we have to assume the chip in the Helio 500 is running the GPU at lower clock speeds.

The last detail we’ll mention is the battery, a 74-watt hour cell. Like most desktop replacement gaming laptops with big screens and big GPUs and CPUs, we’d expect that you’d be lucky to get an hour under heavy loads. But that’s actually typical."

Acer Predator Helios 500 with Ryzen and Vega plus benchmarks
PCWorldVideos
Published on Jun 6, 2018
Gordon shows you the Predator Helios 500 with Ryzen 2700 and Vega 56. He even got his hands dirty and pulled benchmarks for Cinebench and Far Cry 5. Melissa already did a hands-on with the Intel and Nvidia option, and now Gordon has all the AMD fans covered.

 

laptopmedia.com has other Helios 500 content to check out:

Inside Acer Predator Helios 500 – dis-assembly, internal photos and upgrade options [+Video]
From: Alex Iliev, 26 May 2018 / 05:12
http://laptopmedia.com/highlights/i...ly-internal-photos-and-upgrade-options-video/


Acer Predator Helios 500’s IPS display is PWM-free for all brightness levels
From: Silvia Genova 6 June 2018 / 04:32
http://laptopmedia.com/news/acer-pr...isplay-is-pwm-free-for-all-brightness-levels/

Acer Predator Helios 500 display profiles – Quality and Health impact results
From: Silvia Genova 11 June 2018 / 02:17
http://laptopmedia.com/highlights/a...y-profiles-quality-and-health-impact-results/

Display profiles for the Helios 500 4k Display with Intel CPU's, but the screens should be the same. I haven't tried their services, but seemed interesting enough to share.

 

Imao for a 17 incher its got the most pathetic storage options I seen to date in a laptop of this size, ONE 2.5 inch drive slot, only TWO M2 slots, are you serious? There 15 inch laptops out there with more storage options LOL...
That Vega 56 was enticing but if its glued with tears of gamers onto the motherboard, there no point its gonna heat up so much over time the soldier is gonna get loose, no way I want to use a gaming laptop where the GPU does 90 degrees constantly in games.

BGA ebola belongs in the trash at least the Ryzen is PGA on the AMD version of it but the CPU is the least useful upgrade candidate in a laptop to begin with specially if you just get the highest end one to begin with, who buys 1070 in a laptop with i3? No one.

 

Its got enough storage.

4TB SSD should have everything covered for storage, and m.2 for the w/e needs faster transfers, I hardly max out the mSATA connection but I use platter drives for the majority of my storage anyways.

This is the only laptop I am interested in on the planet at the moment. I have my Ranger though so I should be fine for a bit anyways. Maybe I can find one used in a couple years time...

Curious about the memory support, as thats needed to truly allow Ryzen to shine, not happy about the heatsink on the GPU but at least its not like the 17 R3/4 with the weak legs.

Color me extremely interested.

 

https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-vega-56-acer-predator-helios-500-120w-notebook-gpu/
The notebook featured a desktop class Ryzen 7 2700 processor and also, a Radeon RX Vega 56 discrete graphics solution. The Radeon RX Vega 56 part was not a mobile optimized variant but a proper discrete desktop solution designed with the MXM form factor.

Intriguing statement by Wccftech, still not proper disassembly video on the AMD variant?

 

They arent the first one to state that either, I bet they're just sourcing other people like usual.

 

Also it seems the GPU power consumption has been set to 120w vs the desktop iteration of 165w.

 

Since it has thunderbolt ports, I wonder about hooking up an Nvidia GPU for PhysX as well

 

I skimmed through the posts here very quickly, and maybe I missed it, but I have a question, if anyone knows the answer:

It was my impression that Thunderbolt ports and AMD setups/motherboards were a no-go...so...will the Thunderbolt ports actually be true 40Gps Thunderbolt ports on the AMD version, or just 20Gps USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports??

 

I havent been able to figure that out either, I would surmise it might be the latter but Ill take anything on this laptop...

 

Intel owns and develops thunderbolt in Israel, so no thunderbolt ports on AMD motherboards

 

Yet. Intel have talked about opening up Thunderbolt for at least a year. Makes sense if they can keep TB as a standard port for Intel machines and an relatively expensive option for others (AMD, ARM based stuff, RISC V if it'll ever become reality).

 

DON'T Buy an External GPU Right Now, Here's Why They Aren't Great
Hardware Unboxed
Published on Jun 26, 2018

 

Doesn't look like it has anything to do with what I desire...

 

Then explain what you desire in detail, and provide some examples of what you have found out on your own.

 

The video is talking about eGPU as the primary means of handling 3D applications, PhysX will not nearly hog that much bandwidth alone.

 

The eGPU video explaining their results and experiences using eGPU's wasn't just for you either, others have expressed interest as well, and it's of general interest. I'll remove your quote from my original post, since you aren't interested.

This says to me you want an external GPU box to support a 2nd Nvidia GPU.

Have you ever set this up in a desktop? A 2nd GPU for Physx off-load?

I have a few times - years ago, and it's really not worth the effort. You need at least as good of a 2nd card as your Primary GPU to match Physx performance otherwise you actually get worse FPS, and the load isn't enough to utilize a fraction of a 2nd GPU, the off-load from the primary GPU therefore isn't enough to make it worth while.

I also tried splitting SLI into 2 cards, one with Physx, which was briefly better, but in the long run it wasn't worth it once the game supported SLI, as you get better to let the driver balance the load across the SLI'd cards and get the benefits of SLI as well as Physx. For games that didn't support SLI there wasn't much benefit.

The worst part is there are few games that really benefit from Physx, the Batman games come to mind as an exception. When the games started supporting SLI sometime after release, it was better to enable SLI.

If you were talking CUDA work, then a 2nd GPU or more would be worth while if you coded it for multiple discrete GPU's. But, then again the workload would need to not depend on high speed over the bus (PCIe/TB3) or low latency.

PhysX Cards - 10 years later do they still suck??
Linus Tech Tips
Published on Aug 28, 2016
Dedicated PhysX cards have been a thing for almost a decade now. But do they make any more sense now than they did when they launched?


Dedicated PhysX Card Experiment - How Powerful Does it Have to Be? Linus Tech Tips
Linus Tech Tips
Published on Apr 4, 2011
NVIDIA PhysX is a neat technology that exists to introduce a new element to PC gaming. Right now it's mostly special effects, but hopefully we'll see some games over the years that really use physics technologies to introduce new styles of gameplay.



Interestingly the Physx benchmark in FutureMark benchmarks are done on the CPU as a CPU benchmark. With an 8 core Ryzen CPU, it might be worth testing running Physx on the CPU.

PhysX in 2018: GPU vs CPU
Two Tech Tutors
Published on Apr 7, 2018
Can a CPU deliver better PhysX performance than a GPU?


2017: Nvidia PhysX on CPU or GPU? 1080 vs 1800x
Two Tech Tutors
Published on May 31, 2017
Nvidia Control Panel has a setting to move PhysX processing to the CPU, but should you make the change? Its Ryzen R7 1800x versus GTX 1080 time!
In order, benchmarks used OpenGL, DirectX11 & 12, with the last two both using Unreal Engine.

 

Im interested in this machine for getting in to Game dev and I want to learn how to incorporate PhysX, I would prefer not to get a desktop for this as this laptop checks all the boxes save for just one thing, which can be resolved with eGPU.

No game to date has had fluid water as a local asset and its been bothering me since Mass Effect 2 (despite it being a great game)

In your second quote of me I stated what I wanted the eGPU for, which is physx, which alone wont need that much bandwidth. I could understand why you would think its useless as its limited in titles and what GPU would suffice to compliment the primary GPU is hardly a hard science either.

Until we have physx like water in game engines physx is what I have to look at for that particular asset. Which is sad as that tech was demoed 5 years ago.

 

It's an interesting idea, but quite the investment in eGPU hardware and external monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. As stated in that Hardware Unboxed video, it's better to invest the same $ in a standalone desktop - which can run without the laptop - than to put a large investment in vestigial hardware that requires the laptop to use.

In the past I've suggested buying a NUC or other compact desktop PC with TB3 to round out the eGPU components into a full standalone desktop PC that's useful without the laptop. That way you have 2 systems available, usually a good idea, laptops / desktops do fail from time to time, so you'd have a backup system.

Given people have discovered TB3 isn't fast enough, and likely even worse for the next generation of GPU's, it's not a good time to invest in the TB3 solutions, hopefully not too far down the road you can get a faster solution - of course that will likely require a new laptop with the new IO connector too.

Also, why not develop using a technology that can be run on both AMD and Nvidia? Why buy an AMD laptop - supporting AMD, when your goal is to develop software that only supports Nvidia?... it's just weird.

In your situation maybe it's best to get the Helios 500 with Nvidia GPU?

Acer Predator Helios 500 (Intel + nVidia)
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/acer-predator-helios-500-intel-nvidia.818249/

 

I agree TB3 isnt enough bandwidth but it also works well under NVME, with only a PhysX workload it shouldnt need a monitor to save the bandwidth.

Also I am never at a static location for long, if I was I would still have my SFF desktop I had a couple years back, dimensions alone the PC would've been ok but was overweight and would've cost me more than the PC was worth to transport. Airliners almost never check weight of laptops though. Was able to bring 4 laptops in 1 bag with no issues, but a desktop brings immediate problems in transport.

I want to support AMD, and also want to try using Vulkan API and if possible incorporate PhysX for water. If I find something else that can do it at that point then I will be happy to use that technology, I just havent seen it yet.

 

A SFF case would be the same size or smaller than the smallest eGPU I have seen - not the bare bones PCIE cable jobbers of course, but the eGPU's with a case / power supply / etc.

I used to fly with UNIX, Mac, PC development systems in shipping cases with me, or better yet shipped ahead for working remotely, what a PITA.

You could get a Pelican or Zero case with full foam to do your own cut out's or pay for a custom one that would fit the dimensions of your SFF / components, and have it fly in cargo while you only worry about boarding the laptop.

You might be served (pun intended) with a nice desktop at home or office that you can connect to the desktop over the internet from your remote location - from the laptop, internet cafe, or client PC vs carrying it all with you - which is what I ended up doing instead of lugging everything with me.

There are still situations that I need the physical hardware, but these days client sites can set up what I need before I get there - way back when hardly any client had spare hardware in the range I needed available for development work so it was a requirement to ship my hardware in, or in some situations with enough lead time ask the client to order what was needed.

Glad to hear you want to support AMD as well as covering all the options development wise, that's the way to do it.

 

Something else just came to mind, Nvidia is a jerk.

Well, more specifically Nvidia disables functions of it's own cards if it finds an AMD GPU in there too. I think I've seen this a number of times, and recently as well.

I'll have to look it up, but I wouldn't be surprised if Physx / CUDA / AI / Tensors is one of those things nowadays...

Edit: yup, Nvidia disables Physx 2 years ago according to this post, when detecting an AMD card, maybe there is a work around, this article isn't real old at 2 years but it's already archived:

Is what nVidia doing legal? (PhysX)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4gcjx1/is_what_nvidia_doing_legal_physx/

"So I just found out today that nVidia disables PhysX when an AMD card is detected. How is this even allowed? Wouldn't that be like a car maker disabling features you paid for because you bought Brand A tires instead of B?

I did some testing and PhysX remains enabled when an Intel IGP is used as well. Seems real fishy that they only disable for AMD. How can this even be legal to disable a feature when a certain branded device is detected?

EDIT: Let me be clear. I'm not saying that AMD can/should run PhysX. I'm saying that nVidia is disabling PhysX on their cards when it detects AMD GPUs. I think it's called Hybrid PhysX."

SillentStriker 2 years ago
"Am I the only one seeing that almost every comment here is missing OP's point? There was a point in time previously where you could have an AMD card rendering "the game" and the Nvidia card dedicated to PhysX only within the game, which Nvidia then updated their drivers to no longer allow this to happen because it "might break PhysX" or whatever their excuse was. I'm not sure if its legal but, if it was illegal then we would have already heard something about it."

Even if this isn't currently the case, Nvidia has pulled things like this before, so you can't really rely on stable AMD GPU + Nvidia GPU operation with coexistant driver compatibility long term, updates on either AMD / Nvidia driver can cause problems, as I found years ago - there was a bit of an art to getting them to work through driver updates back then as I recall.

Edit: An unofficial solution, and they say Nvidia lifted the lockout in Summer 2016:

"In the summer of 2016 though, NVIDIA must have had a change of heart and allows the pairing with AMD cards ever since."

Hybrid PhysX
http://physxinfo.com/wiki/Hybrid_PhysX

" Hybrid PhysX is an name of unofficial configurations, where AMD Radeon and NVIDIA GeForce cards are used simultaneously, AMD GPU for graphics, and NVIDIA GPU - for PhysX.

Hybrid PhysX configurations are not supported and were even chased by NVIDIA (if AMD card is detected in the system, NVIDIA GPU will lock PhysX processing capabilities), thus were available only through special driver hack, known as Hybrid PhysX Mod, developed by a user with nickname "GenL". In the summer of 2016 though, NVIDIA must have had a change of heart and allows the pairing with AMD cards ever since."

" Important note.
Hybrid PhysX is not officially supported by NVIDIA and AMD. Use it for your own risk."

 

Yeah the size comparison is right but the difference would be, if I had to sell it dirt cheap to get rid of it, it would just be an eGPU as opposed to a whole PC. A much easier pill to swallow. I had to trade my SFF desktop for a y510p SLI which failed months after I had it.

I still game a lot but with Gaming in the last 3ish years going full multiplayer and hardly engaging storylines to engage in it has me wanting to learn Game dev so I can make my own story to play in.

I hate Nvidia's business practices and its why I got the Ranger and ill likely get the RX 480 MXM card for this machine if it works with eDP and the Acer will be the step up upgrade that will basically do everything for me. 8-core CPU and Vega 56. I just hope it doesnt have a 330w limit.

EDIT:

yeah that has been an issue in the past, but people have found work around's in the past and at some point nvidia stopped disabling the GPU when AMD was present. Have they restarted that practice again?

 

I followed the trail through and found that Nvidia lifted the lockout in Summer 2016 - refresh and re-read my last post. As I said it's been problematic to run both AMD + Nvidia GPU's in the past, and Nvidia could change their minds and lockout any features they like at any time.

With Windows 10 updates + Nvidia drivers / AMD drivers updates lagging at a different pace, that would seem to be a large multiplier factor for problems.

 

Yeah, SFF pre-built's are problematic, I've gone through a few before getting a good one, and even then not so sure it was worth it. Better to build a micro-atx on your own and put together from parts. There are eGPU sized cases for those builds now.

The good thing is the SFF or small PC will be able to be useful for years, whereas the dedicated eGPU will be worthless to most people as soon as the new IO interface - TB4 or? - ships.

Only older laptops with TB3 would want an eGPU with locked in TB3, and given the lack of real performance improvement over a 1060 6GB, there isn't much of a performance advantage for many, and even fewer looking for Physx development hardware.

But, wth, you only live once, and you could always get a NUC to add to the eGPU to make use of it down the road.