Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut vs Grizzly Kyronaut vs Arctic Silver 5

I read @iunlock tutorial on the 17 r4, wondering what others thing i should approach, I already have a tube of arctic silver 5 from my last rig build, but in terms of best performance and risk factor (brand new alienware) what should I do? comment away

 

Have you benchmarked so you can get an idea of what your temps and performance are? You need a base to work from.

 

not too much of a benchmark but this

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/2017-alienware-15-r3-7700hq-temps.802472/

 

In modern laptops AS5, which I still use on my desktops to this day, is completely outclassed by both offerings from thermal grizzly. It does not perform as desired on laptops. Avoid it on them imo. @iunlock can give you more specific numbers and data.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

 

is not fair comparing an outdated thermal paste (artic silver 5) with a high end thermal paste (TG conductobaut). From my experience i can say you this:
- If you are a beginneron applying thermal paste, please save yourself a headache and DONT use conductive thermal paste like Liquid ultra or conductonaut. They are the best but in the wrong hands can produce a lot of problems or in the worst case the damage of the entire motherboard.
- Thermal Grizzly kryonaut is by far better than Artic silver 5 (12,5 w/mk vs 8.5w/mk) but we cant look only on conductivity, for example IC diamond 7 have 4,5W/mk but the performance is really good. the bad thing about ICD7 is the cosmetic marks it make to the die.
-if you want liquid metal thermal paste, ask for a repaste to LHZ team ... i always forget the name hahahaha

conclusion: you spend a lot of money on a aw17 r4 and are going to use a middle-bad performance thermal paste .... go for Thermal grizzly kryonaut, is safe to use a a lot better than AS5, it have been proved before

 

Tl;dr: you got lucky and have great temps - don't repaste, just undervolt and be happy, the temps will not get much better than that

I wouldn't even bother
Your temps are great (6°C differential between cores and less than 70°C at maximum in OCCT).
There is not that much to be gained, especially considering that you got the 7700HQ and can't overclock!

If I were you, I'd leave it as it is and give it a little undervolt (1.13V max in OCCT looks like stock to me), which will shave off a few degrees.
This laptop is a total PITA to disassemble and you risk quite a lot for little to no benefits.
(I haven't had as great temps and have watched 4 technicians suffering while disassembling this laptop. It's built quite slim, so the innards are tightly packed and somewhat fragile - e.g. more than one user has broken their WiFi antenna while disassembling the laptop)

 

I'm curious why liquid metal is so difficult to apply? It looks like you put a pea dab on the die and paint it on? What am I missing?

 

You need to cover the surrounding PCB with 3M super 88 electrical tape so that any run-out doesn't damage your mobo.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

 

But thats just during install so im guessing you can just remove it obviously after or?

 

No the run-out is most likely to happen if your laptop is in a bag and the mobo is vertical. I sent my 15R3 to iunlock for his repaste service and he left the tape there after the install.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

 

Hmm where do I start?

Lets keep it simple.

As others have mentioned, as5 should not even be in the same sentence as the top two compounds in its class. Forget as5 all together.

Go with Kyronaut if you're going to Repaste. Your temps might be good now, but that's because the stock paste has not degraded yet and is still fresh.

Anything fresh will show good numbers in the beginning. Even toothpaste will. I've tested it for giggles already to show and prove a point lol. (The Crest Challenge.)

The 3m tape around the die(s) are just an insurance policy. LM should not leak and if it does there was too much applied... My LM application goes not leak. Tested and proven over and over again to come up with a proprietary method.

I would highly recommend just using Kyronaut and/or Gelid Extreme.

Never mind LM for now.

Also, keep in mind your temps seem okay because you're likely not running at full throttle with the power limits unlocked.

If you do not plan on OC'ing, I wouldn't worry about repasting right this second, as you could always do it later.

Also, there are a ton of info on saying no to as5 in the many forums found here. Do a search and they will pop up.

Hope that helps. Congrats on your new rig and happy gaming.





::iunlock::

 

Yes, with conductonaut you will need to use the 3M electrical tape.

Pump out will not happen if you take precaution while applying and not apply too much, basically just apply what the system needs (it's always a bit less than what you think it needs).


If the LM is dripping out then there's something really critical not being done before the LM is applied, like heatsink pressure test and thermal pad adjustment.



Also, don't use AS5. Please.

 

i used transparent nail polish for a year and never happened hahahaha seems like is a good replacement for black tape.
3 layers of nail polish and i was good to go. i am really happy with the performance of conductonaut

 

I need to throw this info out here in case someone doesn't know, AS5 is actually conductive so it's as risky as LM. Please don't use that unless you really have to.

 

It seems like the proper way to apply any liquid metal to these systems would involve pressure paper. That way you can be sure that the cpu and heatsink make even contact with eachother.

 

i have the 6700hq on the 17 r3 and i managed to get a fully stable - 135mv (i run - 125mv though) undervolt, and i don't expect the 7700hq to be any different.

and if you think the r4 is a pain in the ass to disassemble then you really should try the r3

 

Comparing W/mk is a dicey business as there is no set standard for it and everybody tests differently as well as calculates it differently. For example if one manufacturer tests his compound @ 100 micron thickness and another at 20 microns results will vary wildly then throw in differences in calculation and you could come up with just about any number. Unless you know exactly how two compounds were tested and calculated and are capable of making the adjustments you just can not make the comparison on that basis.

One man's 12.5 W/mk is another man's 3.5 W/mk

 

What's pressure paper? Do you have any links to the product? I heard a 0.3 or 0.5mm copper shim also works really well.

 

yes i understand that, that is why i said is different for IC diamond, have one of the "lowest" datasheet specs, but one of the best performance.
i want to ask you, why this happened to my cpu after using your product ?


i have been using your product for years !!!! but i am too much perfectionist to allow scratches. I want to clarify that seems to be only cosmetic damage, but i noted that Liquid metal paste refuse to stay on the scratch area.

also i dont know if the scratch reduce performance of heat transfer :S

you made an impressive job on the paste talking about performance and durability. but i dont know what to think about this

 

@Papusan also the Alienware are not the only one with heatsink problems, as MR fox put on his channel, CLEVO laptops too, and in this case, have nothing to be related to thermal pads thickness

 

A little background for you

Paste is manufactured by 3M.

I get a certificate of Authenticity/Conformance which means each batch is tested for Spec/uniformity So you can go to the bank on that . 3M is a Fortune 100 company and the gold standard in manufacturing and subject to a rigorous quality control.



When product is received it is in basically a gallon can, lid is removed and can is placed directly in a pail dispenser Pressure plate sealed then pumped directly at 850 psi through the syringe tip -Zero opportunity for contamination with likely less than a minute or two exposed to the pretty clean open air. Straightforward and simple. Paste when dry is a flour like you bake bread with or baby powder you can not see the individual particles. Can was stirred for clarity lid shows smooth settled texture with no over sized particles



Nothing would be better than if I could take “proof” to 3M of a problem they would be all over it and the issue would be resolved in days, if there is one. I can call international, national, regional sales managers, division managers and get their attention and I talk regularly with the R &D guy who developed the compound and have also spent time in their R&D department where I witnessed ASTM Testing of the compound. I can get the necessary attention with something actionable.


This is the problem, when somebody posts a picture of a scratch and to be visible clearly indicates a particle size that would also be visible and in fact larger than the scratch itself. This is kind of a catch 22 if you can see the scratch from 2 feet away you would be able to see the particle from 2 feet away. Particles are not buried in the compound as it is 92% Diamond, couple % of Carbon black and polymeric binders so wysiswyg it becomes part of the compound and any particle inconsistencies would be readily apparent to the naked eye. This would be visible when you open the container as in the photo above or visible when filling tubes as syringes are clear pre-labeled.


Now I have handled the product on a daily basis for the last ten years and have never once seen any over-sized particles. I could commit almost any crime as I have no fingerprints from being constantly worn down from daily hands on w/ the compound. I have never been able to duplicate your scratches under any conditions even after multiple attempts and only have been able to achieve polish finishes as seen below. this is not limited to IC Diamond noted many times most compounds contain aluminium oxide which is your typical abrasive in sandpaper. As physics determines the size for thermal results here can be duplicated with a number of different compounds MX4, Shin Etsu, Arctic silver etc. larger particle size would limit contact and reduce performance so they all fall into the same polish/finish range.



On numerous occasions I have requested the offending syringe which I would have have sent to 3m for their analysis and for some reason is always not available and have never been able to acquire one after multiple requests– Do you want to send your tube into 3M? I will pay for shipping and you can ship directly to their R&D department I am sure they would be happy to talk to you. Analysis is a simple matter to wash the compound w/solvent dry and measure remaining particles under a microscope takes a few min.

So in reviewing alleged damage pic I would note that I am not without experience in quality control In the 80's I managed a quality control department For avionic control systems Joysticks for aircraft and other military applications. This partly involved mil specs screening of parts for things like surface finishes, tool marks etc. I had classes in this stuff and part of the job was identify root causes of damage such as impact damage, tool chatter, stress fractures, scratches, air bubbles in castings and so on.

So when I look at a scratch posted online all I have to do is refer is a roughness gage, scale the image and I come up w/ particle sizes of 20 to 50X the specified size. Over-sized particles of this magnitude have never observed on this end under any conditions. This is large enough to be noticed when applying/removing or dispensing the compound without a doubt.

The issue with your scratch, perhaps a unnoticed per-existing manufacturing defect or material contamination on your end? Poor shop practices? Some % of people are ham fisted and not all have same shop standards, too rigorous a cleaning? This is not a personal criticism just trying to put you in my shoes kind of perspective on it. Tele-troubleshooting has it's limitations as well.

So help me out here you say IC Diamond caused damage? Give me something to work with, not anecdotal, not hearsay but rather substantiate your assertions. For every one complaint I have thousand people who do not, they just are not vocal about it. In addition I have alerted 3M about customer complaints in the past and their investigation turned up nothing out of spec. so unless you have something more substantial to add...


As noted this has not been observed to me in ten years of handling the paste nor has it been observed by 3M or any of their distributors over millions of applications over multiple products over ten years.

 

There is more to the whole thing that what is discussed in the video.
You will need to read the last 10-15 pages of the Clevo IC thread.
And the bracket like the one in the video doesn't seem to be a norm AFAIK.

 

first of all, thanks for the large response and good pics i love to know how things are made
i am 100% sure i used ic diamond 24 because i buy it from amazon. I am trying to find the picture of the tube and the application, because i always take pictures of the process of everything. i took the pictures using a samsung note 3 but the display of the smartphone is broken. but i am 99% sure i uploaded the pictures here ... in some thread. i am going to do a search here and find the pictures. i know is ic diamond because of viscosity and smell. i recognize the smell of your paste because of almost 8 years using it. as you, i was REALLY impressed when i saw the scratch. my best friend was building a gamer desktop and i gift him the paste, i asked him and he told me he have paste left on the tube. If you want i ask him to send to you the tube if you want to inspect the quality of the paste.

the scratch is a line, i applied the paste as a line just in the same way the scratch is ( i am 99% sure i took the picture of the paste above the die as a line)

i am going to find the pictures and update you. thanks

 

@IC Diamond

 

Let me get this straight the picture on the left is the paste application Prior to putting on the sink? the one on the right is where you have replaced the compound with LM?

If so this would truly be bizarre in an extreme sense in so many ways - scratches only occur with movement under pressure.
So paste would spread as you clamped down on the sink yet the scratching all occurred only on the original application line ? in a perfect profile?

and the paste never expanded through the voids or the surrounding contour? I mean I could do an overlay and get an exact match down to a thousandth of an inch lol down to the pixel

Even down to the edge irregularities - truly very weird

Resolution is good enough to observe that no large particles are present particularly noted especially in the little splatter points.

With copper the only way to leave a compression mark is with 1/3 -1/2 millimetre piece at the max PSI of the board. - in other words once the small particle area equals/above 1/2 millimetre max you get a bed of nails effect. with the distributed pressure- this being silicon with MOHS of 6.5 -7 vs copper's 3 it would take exponentially more.

truly unique I never have seen anything like in the 25 years I have been in the business and not what I would call a common problem.

as to the LM not sticking perhaps an oil residue would do that scratches do not appear to to have shown any problem on the Nivida chip so oil contamination would be something to consider.

On the Nivida chip

Two different scratch sizes one vertical on one horizontal suggests different 2 size/sources and can not be both kinda shows that a number of things can scratch a die- what you use to clean it? I mean that well, you have to press pretty hard to get any scratch from any material and when basically a little solvent, let it sit to do the work and will come off in one wipe, looks like a lot of scrubbing on the nividia.

Probably one of the oddest things I have seen to date thanks for sharing it



Let me get a 3M address to send syringe to for analysis

 

From what i have , ICD only scratches surfaces when it is removed and i mean scraped off, dry with out or with less than normal amount of isopropyl.

 

That is not entirely true.
Its not the application of LM that the pressure paper is suggested. It is the uneven contact of the heatsink with the CPU die that makes the pressure paper suggested.
You could apply LM with out doing the pressure paper thing and still yield better results then regular paste.

 

I'm sorry but even loyal ICD users know that ICD scratches the surface of the die.
You said it yourself "I have no fingerprints from being constantly worn down from daily hands on w/ the compound"

With that said, It doesn't really have much affect on thermals (perhaps after dozens of applications it might).
However some people just get all OCD and don't want their shiny die to get scratched up.

 

@IC Diamond i posted you 2 pictures, the second should be the first one .... that is what i saw when i removed the heatsink, you could see the a black zone that is the same scratch on the first one, it is not a good term to call it scratch.

in some way to explain it, seems like IC diamond penetrated on die. the surface is completely perfect and feel like the no "scratched" area. BUT as i told you, i noted that when i removed the heatsink to make my 1st one application of coolaboratory Liquid ultra. talking about this pictures:

the left image is just a moment before applying coolaboratory liquid ultra, the second one is just before applying thermal grizzly conductonaut. both pastes refuse to stay on the "scratched" area, in this this zone is like glass and water for the paste.
also i am not a beginner applying thermal paste ( specially IC diamond) because i always used it on all my pcs and family pcs, all in one, laptops, desktops, friend desktops, ect. i cant confirm if my friends or family pcs are "scratched" because i am the only one with time to repaste the pc each 6 months or less. i was just trying to find the BEST thermal paste, it was like a bad joke to me when i saw that marks

 

However, in the real world, regardless of what the (w m/k) numbers are, hundreds and thousands of people who know what they are doing will tell you that many pastes out perform ICD by a pretty wide margin.

We all understand the marketing fluff that goes on in the world of business, but there is no way a true* enthusiast would choose ICD over LM (or other top end traditional pastes), given that the CPU/GPU die is making good contact with the HS.

If there exists a contact issue between the die(s) and HS, one should address that unevenness first, instead of opting for the thickest paste out there only to cover up the intolerance's. (band aid fix).

I've personally used ICD on many applications just to test it out (both short term extreme bench tests to long term tests), in order to obtain first hand experience and knowledge with this stuff and as a consumer, I would never use this stuff over the better pastes out there.

@DeeX said it best so I'll just quote that again.

"I'm sorry but even loyal ICD users know that ICD scratches the surface of the die.

You said it yourself "I have no fingerprints from being constantly worn down from daily hands on w/ the compound" <- The catch 22 is that the very same thing we're referring to that is making your go 'fingerprintless' is not abrasive according to you? Mmmm. :/

1. ICD does scratch the die as it is pretty abrasive like the compounds found in toothpaste. You have even stated yourself of what it has done to your fingers. The characteristics of ICD is no secret.

2. I do acknowledge the possibility of there being poor QC practices of when putting on the HS that could cause some scratching on the die, HOWEVER, I along with many people know that ICD scratches up the die(s) surface. It is not some conspiracy and even loyal ICD users will have no problem admitting to this reality.

3. I don't know why your personal tests did not scratch the die, but as a company rep, what needs to be taken in here and seen as something with value, is the feedback the consumers are giving. To be fair, I do see that you are willing to help and that's good to see.

4. From my personal observations, I've seen scratches on die(s) even before ICD was removed from the die itself, which rules out the scratches happening from when cleaning off the ICD. (I do let it soak for a long long time, before removing ICD.)

At the end of the day, results are results and the fact that ICD does indeed scratch the die(s) surface, along with it not performing very well as a thermal paste, leaves it to be less desired by those who are familiar with this "stuff."

To each his own though. Generally speaking, use what makes you happy and if it works for you...so be it.

• Are you able to share if ICD sponsors resellers? If so, which ones in particular?
  
  
• You had mentioned "Diamond," in your post, but can you confirm that it is a lab created diamond synthetic and not actual Diamond?

The point here is, every computer that I've taken apart that had something other than ICD, had a clean smooth shiny surface.

But, how is it that the ones that had ICD on there, always looked like this?

Well...the reality is, because ICD does scratch the die, whether one wants to admit it or not.



--

This is what the die looks like when cleaned that DID NOT have ICD.

Just saying...

 

Guys, it's pointless to say that @IC Diamond is refuting the COLD HARD FACT that their own paste scratches the die!


Why would a company rep willingly say that their product damages and creates visual imperfections on customer's precious silicon surfaces? That will only drive down their sales! Of course they can say whatever they want on the theory that ICD can be removed without scratching the die (theoretically it can, practically ABSOLUTELY NOT).



ICD is only offered by OEMs and boutique builders because they are so thick that they "hide" the poor contact of some heatsink. That's the only merit of ICD.

IMO it's a underhanded tactic to be a scrooge and not fix / replace the heatsink!

 

Bingo.

There is no denying a fact, when it can be proven over and over again.

You've hit the nail on the head with the key points mentioned:

1. Would a company rep speak badly about its own product? Come on gentleman (and ladies for those female enthusiasts), this is a no brainer.

2. Fix the intolerance's first instead of hiding it. I do not understand the logic of doing it the other way around as it logically makes zero sense at all. Most would say,...."Quite being lazy!"

 

I'm just waiting on that company rep to report everyone talking bad about his product and try to silence criticism lol.


If he goes as far to lie that ICD doesn't create scratches when removed (in practical purposes), then I don't doubt the above.

 

@iunlock @Mobius 1 you get the point ... for the other side, my scratch is insane awful. i am too much perfectionist to allow that .... i last almost 3 weeks without sleeping right thinking on my Alienware that i bought with TOO much effort. Is not "visible", but i know is there !!! that is why i love alienware, the clean look form outside to inside. There is no way i am going to use IC diamond anymore on my personal laptop, only if they replace my mobo and tell me ( apply again) i could think about it.
i am from South America and i had to send money to my uncle ( western union) and loose money by the transaction. i cannot pay with credit card or wherever card from here to US Dell page. also i had to pay an insane amount of money for the shipping ( fedex + another TAX (16%) + import taxes) wait a LOT. and then get my beautiful die with a black mark because of dont know why ?
Forgive me IC diamond, but my loyalty cant forgive that easily

 

Hey Judal, next time you want to buy something just hit me up.

How about paypal and such?

 

@Mobius 1 i will do, paypal use credit card. for some reason is impossible to use visa, master card or such cards from here to pay there. only on us Dell page
i can normally buy things from china or other places using paypal.
i would like to have money to buy a 13 R3 with 1060 and oled display hahahah seems to be a good toy
i think i will have to wait until coffee lake. probably we will see that six core cpu´s con laptops for first time
maybe a new revision of amplifier or something like that and better performance with the supposed 12nm nvidia graphic cards
i really like the look they put on the 13" model. i dont like the side lights on 15 and 17, for me those lights make them looks less serious ( i know i can tun them off, but i prefer metal corners )

 

Me too, I will migrate to an LGA AW or BGA AW which has a minimum of 6 cores or more w/o HTT. I hope Vega or Volta would be ideal. @judal57, yes the side lights looks like street light to see where you've parked(plugged in) your USB drives and TB.

 

AW Ceo Mr. Azor don't want socket hardware as LGA i7 in their laptops. He bet more on battery performance.


This is the main target!! Portable gaming.

 

Yeah, I try to forget about that embarrassing moment for Mr. Azor. His comments were instantly recognized as erroneous by many that knew better. People that don't know what they are talking about would be better off not talking.

Brother @Cass-Olé sees similar demonstrations on a daily basis by Azor's subordinate minions... all talking heads with varying degrees of error, hype and dishonesty intermingled.

I still cannot understand the logic of what they are striving for. If we forget that performance enthusiasts exist long enough to focus on the topic of gaming, real PC gaming has never been feasible running on battery power. I doubt that it ever will be. CPU and GPU are placed in a lower performance state as a matter of necessity and the gaming experience suffers greatly when running from battery power. I get it for web browsing, email and office productivity on the go, taking notes for school, etc. But, I don't understand why they continue chasing those unicorns and Easter bunnies where gaming is concerned. That's just stupid.

 

Yes he's right and wrong at the same time. First time I saw an AW 17 that had HDD bays that can be swapped in and out on the fly and an extreme cpu and gpu but that was long time ago. Yes, efficiency of desktop cpus on laptop is quite low and he's right. But, with right cooling and heavy R & D they could fit LGA cpu into a laptop. There's another problem too, not everyone is an enthusiasts so most of the users won't even open up their PC to upgrade their boards,MXM gpus etc. Anyway games are getting heavier and more intelligent thanks to tech improvements.
But I really want AW to invest in two line-ups, one being targeted towards enthusiasts who needs DTR laptop and another one being enthusiasts/gamers who require high performance PC with some portability. Then again, AGA is a nice concept and the hard fact is we need to upgrade PCs ever 3 years or more if we want to have bleeding edge tech on our laps or even on desks.

 

The problem with LGA is you need to delid the CPU and provide more TDP headroom to fit intel specs.

The second one costs money and the first one isn't going to be popular with regular users.

 

While that is true it has to be understood in context. Regular users don't care because they are regular and don't know any better, or know better and don't care. It's only a problem when they are posers and that feeds into the BGA filth being passed off as something special. The issue is the misrepresentation and limited selection of better stuff for the people that insist upon it, not the existence of BGA turdbooks. They have a place, it's just not "here" and it should never be expensive. It should be inexpensive because it is inferior, but they charge the same and take advantage of the people that buy it. It's just wrong. People that are OK with a lesser product (whether they are aware of it or not) should get it for a whole lot less money.

 

It's sad that the majority of the consumer base are ignorant unicorn chasing fluffy tailed ________'s. It's pathetic I know and what's more unfortunate is that in the share holders eyes, it's all about $$$.

Because the mainstream ODM's are failing to provide what real enthusiasts want, the companies who are still supporting lga/mxm needs to be supported.

Some companies need to get their cooling design right first before anything. Sad right?

Yes, it's very unfortunate because of the toys R us crowd, who prevent certain things from happening with the ODM's in providing the enthusiasts with lga/mxm machines.

To be fair as you've stated there is a place for the bga segment, but definitely not in the category of gaming on battery.

That is such an oddity that I'm still trying to wrap my mind around....

Who the fluff games for real on battery and why? I'm just saying.... The culprit of the gaming laptop revolution at its finest.

Yea I get it, gaming on the go etc... But if you're seated at a table doesn't most places have an outlet? Are people gaming at the park in the middle of nowhere under a fruit tree? I mean come on...

Instead, there should be battery packs like the Dell battery Companion for the XPS, if one insists on gaming on battery; instead of crippling the design that only brings about limitations. Let alone the price...

Again, to be fair the newer Kaby machines are panning out to be really nice, but it's important to not use this as an excuse for the majority of the unicorn crown to claim complacency.


::iunlock::

 

Well you guys must have been up all night. In any event we are trolled all the time As 3m paste here is imagined to cause just about every kind of damage possible it must be a real witches brew

This one I can not explain is first of it's kind, in 10 years of handling the 3M compound and truly Bizarre. Somehow penetrated the Die ? Lol new one on me.



.
Then I get things like it wears off your IHS lettering as here where a poster on Anandtech claimed that IC Diamond removed his lettering, this is completely different than the one above not claiming any scratches just a general wear. Well we had a Photo forensic specialist take a look at the Photos and they were found to be Photo Shopped which is supported by the fact that the serial numbers do not match on the before and after pics As noted by the forensic investigator .



innovationcooling.com/image/icreport3.pdf

Somebody with an agenda to dedicate all that time and effort to do a fake smear, I mean why bother at all?


Then I had some school teacher on Tom's hardware do this big test to prove that IC Diamond would remove IHS Lettering in a poorly constructed exercise, his photo's were deleted but my response is intact as well as a composite photo of the results.



Top Photo is after removing lettering in the darker area no scratches just a modest polishing observed but apparently not good enough as we now have 100 grit scratches on the horizontal on the bottom final pic that were not there before. If 100 grit particles were present they would have been visible in the original pics and noted or at minimum as visible scratches in the top original. This requires a huge leap of faith on the transition of grits top to bottom.

IC Diamond has been accused of chemical etching, punching holes in heat sinks and dies, minor scuffing to to hundred grit scoring of parts, I mean it's got it all and covers the full range damage possible. A little overdone IMHO


This “Range” itself gets to be a stretch. 3M a Fortune 100 company produces a product for electronics but damages these electronics across a wide range of use??? This does get bizarre as in examples 1-3 or other posted pics. I mean does it cause every kind of damage? Now boarding on the absurd.

Like a safe cracker that sands their fingers to improve sensitivity to feel the tumblers falling in place my point was I would have felt any over sized particles with increased sensitivity. Would be the same as with any paste as they all are abrasive. Aluminium oxide Don't cha Know?


It's not like like I do not have a basis for scepticism nobody has proved anything. Hostility here is unwarranted as well as character assassination, no need to be unprofessional. You can “Prove” to me and everybody else this is your opportunity. Help me out here, matter of factly and to the point send your tube directly to 3M for analysis if there is a problem they will fix it, they stand by their products 100%.



This is an open invitation to anybody so PM me and I will make arrangements and pay for shipping.

 

@IC Diamond the pictures you are posting are desktop cpu´s, this is not the same case
i don't earn anything saying lies,it is what it is
i applied IC diamond 24 as a line on the cpu and a modest dot on the gpu. exactly where i put the line of ic diamond is where the scratch appear. i am showing you pictures that are 100% mine. i cant find the image of the line of IC diamond.
i am not going to receive anything by doing the research. i loose a lot of information during a w10 recovery, i have 2 ssd and 1 hdd and when i restored, the smart windows 10 put the OS on my hdd instead of SSD where it was. i loose 500gb of pictures and I finished with two OS, one corrupted and the other where it wasn't suppose to be.
i am sure i posted the picture on alienware 15 r1 r2 owners thread but, since it have almos 500 pages, and you don't believe what i am saying you, i think It's a waste of time.

i am not trying to affect the company image
you asked me and i was giving you answers.
in the best case i proof the ic diamond tube was bad, you are going to give me 1 tube for free hahaahah
simply don´t deserve my time.
you make good by loving the brand and being loyal, but you are blind . i have seen a lot of companies with more rename than 3M Committing mistakes

 

Hey bro... there are still a good number of us left around here that are not silly emo boys. I've been using IC Diamond for years because it works, and very well at that, and it is very durable. I'm sorry you are getting trolled and have to put with so much nonsense. I can remember not too long ago that IC Diamond was the only thing available that I knew of that wasn't absolutely worthless garbage, LOL. As long as ODMs out there are building sloppy trashbooks with heat sinks that fit as loose as a worn out goose, IC Diamond will be extremely valuable. It's the only product I know of that can cover up so much sinful engineering incompetence and continue working well for more than a few days. I think it's awesome and I am very grateful we have your product.

Edit: @judal57 - I did not read your post before before the above comments and I'm not saying you are lying... at all. But, IC Diamond has been putting up with way too foolish idiocy and being blamed for the mistakes of others for as long as I can remember. Those that have seen it already understand why they might be skeptical of complaints. Like the story of the little boy that cried wolf, I could understand if they may have grown insensitive. I know I would be if I were in their shoes. I edited my post just to be clear that my comments are not directed at you in any way. I'm talking about the past, not the here and now.

 

I understand. I would have no problem applying LM to a traditional desktop heatsink. However the context of this forum as well as the inclusion of the words "these systems" in my sentence implies that I mean specifically these systems that have known issues with heatsink contact uniformity.

 

Just to be clear so that you understand the point that I was making in my previous post, ICD does scratch the die(s) of the chips. It's just the truth and so there's no need in trying to defend it.

You're a company rep for crying out loud. I appreciate the information that you're providing, but lets face it... Most of us have been in this game a long time and we're well aware of the fluff that goes on in the industry. Been there, seen it, heard it... so lets just face it. We can all get along and just because there are difference in opinions, doesn't mean that we can't all be friends as the old saying goes.

However, we're not dealing with opinions here on the specific fact that ICD does scratch the die(s).

We all have our own preferences so just because someone doesn't like your product doesn't mean you have to take it personally. If you're happy with ICD then just continue doing what you do and leave it at that. Perhaps, propose an idea to the company to make some neat innovations that can provide a better product than what you have now. We'd be open to that as a lot of us are not loyal to any particular brand. We just use what works and base our preferences around that after a process of elimination.

I was sharing with you my own personal experiences with ICD and not basing anything off of any internet fluff with tweaked pictures etc... Those pictures that I've provided are my own photos from my own systems. - Which by the way, the sad photos that you did receive just astonishes me at the lengths some people will go to in order to provide false data. I'm with you on that... just incredible. Who are these people? SMH...

No one is attacking 3M as a company and the information that you are providing in edifying the brand brings nothing to the points that are being made here. We all respect 3M and love their other products (generally speaking)...again this has nothing to do with the credibility of the company and your continued emphasis on trying to edify the company beings no value to the main topic of the discussion, rather it only sheds more light on the, "salesman," sigma that a lot of us do not desire.

We are addressing a single product here, ICD and yes there are many variables that can exist which may affect the consistency. Who knows, but the reality is your single claim in trying to debunk the fact that ICD does not scratch is going up against a brick wall that is stacked very high with those who can prove you wrong, if they care to share. But like @judal57, most people don't want to waste their time with a lost cause, because the fact we're dealing with here is no secret. Don't you get that? -

Even you have said it yourself, "For every one complaint I have thousand people who do not, they just are not vocal about it."

It's important to keep in mind that you are on a public forum and as a company rep, it is unreasonable to expect that every posts or comments made by other members, will be all filled with roses & bubbles toward your product. Face it. It's just reality.

My personal take on ICD is this, just so that we're crystal clear before you go on generalizing and calling any comments made that go against your product as a, "troll comment."

1. If one is dealing with an intolerance issue with gaps between the die(s) and HS, then address that first and not opt for a band aid fix. Think about it, the thicker the paste (medium), the greater the distance the heat has to travel, thus loosing thermal conductivity along the way. In a laptop environment, we're already going against the laws of physics, so why not try to get the most out of what is, "physically," possible, rather than dealing with a quick fix? That is just my opinion and to each his own...

Unless a medium is adequate enough to support the capacity of the total thermal transfer, the efficiency will be degraded significantly not only by the medium, but even more so when you factor in the inability of some cooling systems that suffer to provide enough cooling capacity for the heat it needs to expel.

You should know more than the general public about the law of thermal conductivity and how even the smallest intolerance's at the micron level play a pretty significant role to the overall properties of thermal conductivity.

Therefore, with that being said, although a lot of people don't desire the scratches on the die(s), could these imperfections be affecting the thermal conductivity at the micron level?

2. ICD is not the best thermal paste out there IMO and through my own experiences of testing it out, it is nowhere near the best. It is however one of the thickest so I'll give it that. Sure, it could work for some and like I've said, "whatever floats the boat..." - Freedom of choice, is a beautiful thing.

3. Unless your company takes proactive measures to come out with a new product that can compete against the better pastes out there, then ICD will continue to fall off the radar as other brands continue to gain credibility. - The proof is in the pudding and it'd be really nice to see some innovation here. We'll be waiting for it.

If time permits, I may make a video one day to document that ICD does scratch the die(s), but there are a lot more important things on deck to deal with and accomplish than to go up against a lost cause.

 

@iunlock i am with you. i never said IC diamond performance was bad. or why i have been using it for years ??? performance is good and long lasting, but today you can find a next level of thermal pastes like Thermal Grizzly and his new products. i had a terrible experience the last time i used, and is not that i don't like the paste, is just that I do not want to play the roulette again and find if the paste is going to scratch my cpu die again hahahah too much money invested.
i like 3M, and i have an insane amount of products of them

 

I would have to disagree here. We should start off with the assumption that the opposite of your "BGA Turdbook" term is a Clevo.
Your post is flawed and full of incorrect information.
"BGA filth" generally speaking is not infeiror. With that said there are plenty of inferior BGA laptops out there but this is the Alienware forums so lets talk BGA Alienware.
If you match up a Clevo with a single video card the pricing is "around" the same as an Alienware with the same card.
The performance of the Alienware is less but not by so much that it makes the Alienware owner feel sad or like he has nothing.
Is the card on the Clevo pulling more watts? Sure is. Does the Clevo have a desktop proc? Yes!
However if you compare the general build quality of a Clevo when it comes to the chassis and some of other components. Clevos fail in comparison.
One would think Clevo could spend some money sourcing some better keyboards for the prices resellers charge.
One would think they could come up with a way to make their chassis and build in general feel more premium.

So again my argument comes down to what people want.
The performance difference between the 7820HK + GTX 1080 on the Alienware vs the 7700K + GTX 1080 200w on the Clevo is worth the build quality I get with the Alienware. (In my and others opinion)
What do you mean they have no place here? They are "here", They don't seem to be going anywhere but here. People know how they perform and they know their other options and still choose them.
I personally think they are fairly even with Clevo, they perform slightly less but look better and are built better.
Lets compare to cars here. Sure there are crazy fast super cars out there but most come with two seats and are not very comfortable.
Now a V12 S500 may not be the absolute fastest car out there but it is unarguably fast and you can fit your whole family in there very comfortably.
Clevo performs "off the chain" and can allow a user to have one of the fastest portable gaming machines out there. At the cost of some build quality and the appearance of something "generic".
I guess to each his own.

I kinda of feel this only really applies to the CPU.
Since the loss of reference MXM cards as we saw from new Clevos, when new generation video cards come out, they often cannot be used in previous generation laptops.
Gone are also the days of buying MXM cards from multiple different sources.
Now we much count on the ODMs to properly design MXM cards that are compatible with the next gen laptops. Since this has not happened this last go, essentially MXM cards are only good for fixing a system if it fails. The same sort of goes for CPUs, yes LGA allows for upgrades but once you go past the tick in the tick tock with Intel you often wont have a compatible chipset to use newer CPUs anyways.
So that is the reason that many of us have turned to a year or two cycle with laptops.
Buy a laptop, use it, enjoy it and then flip it when the time is right to maximize the cost reduction of the next generation of technology. This process works great, plus you dont have to worry about MXM or LGA. Just saying.