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    The life & death of my 17R4

    Discussion in '2015+ Alienware 13 / 15 / 17' started by speedsweep, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. speedsweep

    speedsweep Notebook Geek

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    Hello everyone!

    Here is a little bedtime story, to add to Dell's failure of manufacturing and sending correct 17R4.

    Some of you probably know me already because I asked a lot of questions before purchasing my new gaming laptop and I went with the 17R4 / 6820HK / GTX1080 / QHD screen.

    I by then knew about the thermal issues, bad paste job, uneven heatsink, etc, etc. but I decided to purchase one anyway as I heard that those problems were normally fixed on "rev 2" which was sent out early 2017.

    So I got mine on the 9th of February if I remember correctly.
    After a few initial benches and tests, I saw that I had the uncorrected version (10° difference on cores and throttling while benching at 40x).

    I then decided to lock the overclocking capability until I had the time to do the repaste job / arm bending etc.

    But!

    The laptop crashed last Saturday while I was away (froze on windows).
    I force shut it down and start it again, nothing : no bios, only leds and fans spinning after 30 seconds and the power button giving me 2 red lights followed by one blue.

    I checked the error table and saw : CPU failure.

    Ok then, I called Dell's tech support and made a ticket through their website.
    I got a response saying that they will need to get a new mobo and a technician would come.

    Tuesday, I had an appointment with a technician at home.
    I said to myself that it's quite fast: 1 day to receive the mobo and the next day the technician is at home! Great!
    We open the box and there was juste a mobo, no heatsink, no paste, nothing.

    So he called the dispatch that said: well, just replace the mobo and reuse whatever is left on the machine.

    WTF!!!

    Well, I told him to pack and come again with everything needed.

    So, after two days of calls back and forth with the technical team located in Casablanca(Marocco), another tech came on Monday with everything needed.

    Already looking at the boxes made me nervous... A refurbished motherboard!

    So he disassembled the unit, changed the mobo, removed the stamps on the copper plates and added his own (shin-etsu), re-assembled everything and I let you guess...

    Nothing, just a different error pattern : 3 reds and 2 blues.

    Checking at the error table again, it says CMOS Failure.

    So he tried a few more things and at the end left, with the unit opened as he would have to come again and no need to screw back everything in place.

    Sooooooo.....

    I emailed again the guy in Marocco and now told him that if they are unable to repair a not even 2 month old unit and that they are supplying used material,
    I expect them to send me a brand new one, with the exact same specification, but with the 7820hk as mine is not available anymore and I don't want the same
    problems with a refurb or another broken unit.

    Here is were I am now, waiting to hear from the guy.

    I'll let you know on the result.

    Cheers,

    Speedsweep.
     
  2. SkidrowSKT

    SkidrowSKT Notebook Deity

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    I live in Morocco as well, can you please tell me how did you get a hold of a brand new AW laptop? And how much did it cost?
    I've looked pretty much everywhere, and all I found are Dell distributors, and no resellers. I was planning to buy an AW13, and I thought I couldn't get it from anywhere unless I order from Dell or the likes of HIDEvolution (great service).

    Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk
     
  3. leeloyd

    leeloyd Notebook Consultant

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    My deepest condolences for your 17R4. I'm not even surprised, DELL's french tech support can really be Awfull.
    My 15R3 is my first and last Alienware. Too many bad experiences in such a short time, too many lies from Azor and Co. DELL's biggest fail ever.

    On P4G French Forum, 5 peoples are happy with their 17R4/15R3.
    And with you now 7 peoples had troubles involving DELL's tech support.

    Cheers.

    Sorry, only DELL's french tech support is located in Morocco.
     
  4. speedsweep

    speedsweep Notebook Geek

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    Thanks Leeloyd.

    I will see how it goes. If I am not satisfied I will ask for a full refund and go back to MSI.

    SkidrowSKT, as Leeloyd said, I was talking about the French tech support that is located in Marocco. I live in France.
    By the way, Dell is using Unisys for their tech services. So you have one person in contact from Dell in Marocco, who opens tickets that are sent to Unisys and they dispatch techs from their compagny or freelance guys to make the on-site repair.

    I was not able to keep a correct workflow of things and actually, before the second tech came, I had a call from probably Unisys in the UK (french speaking guy with a thick english accent) and he told me that the four components were on order, including the mobo.
    I told him that someone came two days earlier with just a mobo and he wasn't even aware of that....
     
  5. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Have you tried removing the cable that connects to CMOS battery, sometimes it can fix things.
     
  6. speedsweep

    speedsweep Notebook Geek

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    Yeah I Vasuded we tried that with the tech guy. Removed the CMOS cable, tried another one etc...
     
  7. judal57

    judal57 Notebook Deity

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    if you dont get the cpu upgrade, ask for a refund
     
  8. cootje1976

    cootje1976 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Last Saturday it seemed that the same thing happened with my wife's 17r4, we both have the same ones. CPU error code.
    First of all in Sweden in the weekend and outside of office hours yer s.o.l trying to get someone from tech support. So of course my wife stressed, and me too in the mix of course.

    Tried various options, and for about half an hour sitting on the couch I realised that we did not try one thing, or at least we have had to do that a bit longer:
    Made sure that nothing was plugged so no power etc connected.
    Hard reset by pressing the power button for about 30 secs, and it started up without a hitch.

    Now updated the bios, and a repair guy came yesterday, and did not have to do a thing other than testing the components, and everything seems to be in order.
    What comes to mind is this:
    If you have a busted cpu for whatever reason I would think it is more on the Intel side of things, not Dell's; what I have seen kinda looks like the cpu locked up, kinda like the Skylake bug like before that is supposed to be fixed by now. Could also be a 'bad luck, try again!' routine. Sh*t happens. I believe the latter, so I am not worried, seen far worse.

    And regarding tech support: in our world of outsourcing and skimping on costs, be prepared for even worse customer service/ technical support. Premium ain't premium anymore, that time is 'over'.. Unless of course you run a server farm like we do in Broadcast and you need the guy in within 30 mins 24/7 yeah. But then you pay top dollar because of the strict SLA's as well..
     
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  9. rinneh

    rinneh Notebook Prophet

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    As far as I know its a bios bug which certain bios versions have. Which ones I do not know. Its posted somehwere here on the forum.
     
  10. speedsweep

    speedsweep Notebook Geek

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    Ok guys,

    After a few weeks of calls with the support, etc. they sent me a new unit with the 7820hk (see sig.)

    I unboxed it yesterday and directly fired a wPrime on 8 threads at 40x with pl at 100k using XTU (because it was late and I forgot how to set the core multiplier in the bios directly: although selecting custom, I couldn't change the values...)

    I think I am doomed: I saw max temperatures at 91° on cores 0 and 2 and something like 78° on cores 1 and 3.

    Soooo, I assume again I have a very uneven heatsink etc...

    Am I doing something wrong? I didn't enable fan perf. mode...

    Should I do it while benching or should I get something more reasonable without it?

    Is it because I ran this bench right out of the box?

    I am trying to reassure myself that this unit is better but I can already imagine your answers..

    Any thoughts @iunlock @DeeX, @Mobius 1, @Papusan etc?

    Thanks in advance for your help.

    Cheers!
     
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  11. Mobius 1

    Mobius 1 Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    seems like uneven thermal pad

    have you take a peek inside the chassis to see if any thermal pad are misplaced?
     
  12. speedsweep

    speedsweep Notebook Geek

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    Not yet.
    I picked it up yesterday but I am on vacation and I left the tube of kryonaut I just bought at home...

    I'm an not sure if I would be able to see something without removing the black plate covering all the stuff.

    What would be the steps to make? I guess I shouldn't fiddle with it or have it running until I am able to open it? Could it kill this one again by frying something?
    I don't have any pads at home btw.
     
  13. speedsweep

    speedsweep Notebook Geek

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    Yeah something is definitively wrong...

    Here is a screenshot of the temps idling on the desktop (only running: gta V installer, chrome and hwinfo) :

    [​IMG]

    Please, reassure me and tell me it's a just a matter of misplaced **** and that I won't have another frying unit...
     
  14. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    Maybe it's time to switch brand? :rolleyes: The history repeats itself as I see. Not the big change from the models was released last autumn... How long can bear to keep on with this? Oh well. Up to yooo.
     
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  15. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    Haha switch to what?

    I'll await your answer....

    An advocate without a better solution is a dead end.

    Every ODM has their fair share of problems. Including any that you'd "recommend."

    :)

    ::iunlock::
     
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  16. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    HaHa, I expect you know what I meant - thought of. +rep. This →→→ mess... Time after time, after time? I do not think all re-sellers are at this low end level. Keywords @Donald@HIDevolution and similar nice places. I frother the Internet every day after info bruh. I See & learn something new, every day :D
     
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  17. Spartan@HIDevolution

    Spartan@HIDevolution Company Representative

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    [​IMG]
     
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  18. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    Fair enough and in that regard I completely agree.

    It's sad that we have to deal with some of the most basic issues among the ODM's. Some worse than others all the while some ODM's specialize in certain departments LOL...like the three legged dog. So sad...
     
  19. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist®

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    Yes, everything needs work and the OOBE basically sucks among all brands with very few exceptions. This is the world we live in.

    Looking at other options should not be dismissed. A bad experience is almost expected if you do not buy a new laptop from HIDevolution or Obsidian-PC. That is because they care and are deliberate about making sure things work right before it ships.

    Without any special discounts applied, a new AW17 with 7820HK, 2560*1440 G-Sync, 32GB DDR4-2400, 512GB M.2 + 1TB HDD, W10 Pro is about $3300 USD. A new P870KM1 from HIDevolution with delidded 7700K, MXM 200W 1080 and all other specs equal is essentially the same price. So, same price for something stronger, better, faster.

    For anyone that is hell bent on having an Alienware, HIDevolution sells those, too. There is a better chance of getting one that functions correctly at the time of unboxing buying it from HIDevolution than direct from Dell.
     
  20. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    Very true. It's a sad reality when the track record is better, let alone the ability to get a cherry picked unit (functioning wise) with a reseller than through the ODM.

    For the price, purely looking at hardware, the dtr demolishes any tattooed machines. However, on the other end for one that wants to opt for something specific like an AW, with the new configs, they can get a semi-bare bones 7820HK/GTX1080/New QHD/8GB RAM/1TB Spinner or 180GB Sata SSD for $2299, which is $1000 cheaper at retail.
     
  21. Mobius 1

    Mobius 1 Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    I don't recommend buying an Alienware outside of the Dell website for a mountain of reasons.
     
  22. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    Then you are back to Dell and ALL the mess!! Change out ram, wifi, ( can't see ssd offered, but we know what will come) and Windoze X. And BGA without maxed out premium warranty-support, oh well :p In the end will be a more expensive and more of the same we have seen from before. No thanks :D

    Edit. Sorry, they offer the 180GB ssd for free.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  23. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    Yea the cost of m.2 and Ram really adds to the price. Unless it's a good deal to get it with the build, it's insane to pay a premium for something that can be bought for much cheaper on your own.

    But even at retail for that semi bare bones AW, it'd still be way under 3k for a retail customer with them purchasing a m.2 and ram aftermarket.

    +300 would get them a decent m.2 and enough ram to get them on their way.

    Nevertheless, where the price comes into the equation for AW is in the engineering and build quality. The GPU is same as any other... And as we know crazily enough the HK chipsets are just as much as the desktop counterparts. Crazy world we live in....

    ::iunlock::
     
  24. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    DELL PRICES for stipped down AWbook 17 (extended support is a must for BGA) is $2,704.99

    Then add as you said 300 for ram and ssd. I expect your math will be the same as what I figured :D And right back to the TRIPOD mess and useless outsourced tech, but this time without overheated ssd's :p And you compare i7 BGA with the desktop counterparts. I expect @Mr. Fox ain't totally agree with that conclusion :swoon:
     
  25. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    I think you're misunderstanding.

    I'm saying how pathetic it is for mobile Intel chips to cost the same if not more than desktop chips.

    ie... Mobile chips should not cost the same or more....



    ::iunlock::
     
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  26. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    Oh'well. Turn it around, Yeah it could be me :D
     
  27. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist®

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    Correct. They should not. Unfortunately, they do and part of the reason for that is people buy them anyway. The same can be said for MXM GPUs. Asinine prices, but morons (including me) keep bending over and taking it in the shorts. Laptops in general represent horrible value... BGA or otherwise. Prices are pretty retarded for what little value you get in return.
     
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  28. wrathofdeath

    wrathofdeath Notebook Evangelist

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    If this was 3-4 years ago they'd replace the entire damned thing. That's some Bullsh!t there especially with how much that machine cost.

    Are these issues present in the current models? Like the newer AW 15? If so, my friends and I are not giving them a penny.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  29. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    But pay more, get less :confused: Both the BGA Chipset and the Processor cost more. All you get in the end is LESS!! +$30 usd pr package vs LGA. And Intel run to the bank and smile because yet another screwed buyer is fooled into buying their trash.
    upload_2017-4-17_4-6-34.png
    Same over the whole AW line. Maybe less with the 13 models.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  30. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist®

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    Yeah, that's a whole 'nother problem right there. It's true as well. It should be the exact opposite. If you get less you should pay less, and the cost reduction should scale in direct proportion to the loss.
     
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  31. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    Yeah, yet another reason why Intel push hard for BGA(+ They would have problem finding where these low end binned chips should be used)... More LGA and they would earned less. Aka less to its shareholders o_O
     
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  32. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    Well the other sad reality is that these chips all usually come from the same piece of silicon wafer, so the ones that can preform like they should to certain specs (PASS) end up being the 7700K etc...while the lower binned chips end up being used for bga and lower end chips, hence the lower TDP's of these chips, marketed as mobile chips.

    However, to be fair it is possible to luck out at times with the unlocked mobile chips and that gap isn't as a wide of a margin than the HQ's... there is an order of hierarchy lol regardless.
     
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  33. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    Yeah, And for this ****y will Intel claim +$45 usd for every single chipset and the chips itself vs. the LGA package :no:The only medicine that can work in the end, is vote with your wallets :vbthumbsup: As always :vbbiggrin:
     
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  34. DeeX

    DeeX THz

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    Our systems with mobile chips dont cost the same. So that argument is only if you are paying full retail or current .com sale price.
    I would never do such a thing. ;)
     
  35. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    See. From Dell Store here home. Fully stripped down AWBook 17 (8GB ram, 1TB hdd + 180GB sata ssd, Premium support and Windoze X Pro). The bare minimum as abowe. Must have Windoze X Pro. Only $4742.95 usd Maybe we can get a discount, but here is the price :rolleyes: I can put on $100 usd extra and get 1080SLI monster for same price :oops:
    upload_2017-4-17_7-52-11.png

    upload_2017-4-17_7-50-24.png

    Maxed AWBOOK 17. Only $6000Usd :rolleyes: Nice. Only 2x 1TB NVMe ssd's + 1TB hdd. And what ssd brand? Liteon?
    upload_2017-4-17_8-0-21.png
     
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  36. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    Sshhhh you're spilling the beans haha...j/k....

    ie...for those that don't get that joke, just because something costs $x, doesn't mean....well nm...enough said...


    So how's the weather?
     
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  37. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    That applies to your market. In the US the prices are different and much cheaper.

    But yea you're right...there's no way in heck to justify paying that much for that machine when you can get a SLI 1080....one would have to be insane.
     
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  38. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    [​IMG]

    I know :bigyes: But remember you have to look further out than to US. Always had cheap prices on tech.
     
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  39. speedsweep

    speedsweep Notebook Geek

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    Haha, I love all these debates on bga/lga etc but in my case the aw was the cheapest with those specs in France because our VAT etc. And they did replace the broken one with this one which has the kabylake, twice the ssd, faster ram and it has the new screen. So for me that was kinda the only option to get an hk and a 1080 with the money I could spend. So I intend to make the best out of what I have now.

    So back on topic.

    I tried gaming yesterday and my temps where at between 78 and 86 with no overlooking.

    I will open it tonight when I get back home and look at the pads and put some kryo.

    Should I order fuji pads and do the rework as soon as I get them?

    For those like you @iunlock who have the 7820, wasn't the uneven pressure fixed?

    I am trying to see what improvements where made and what I should look for while I have it open.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  40. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    Yes the newer units are much improved and will run fine (of course there will be lemons) if kept stock.

    Once you unleash the power limits, like every other gaming laptop, it'll start to sweat.

    The improvements have been and are gradual with Dell working on new things...I can't go into detail just yet, but I can tell you for sure that things are getting handled right now to improve further on what has already been worked on.

    So both of my new 17R4 Kaby's had very good core differentials, stock. Other owners of the 17R4 Kaby has also posted up screen shots showing their stock temps. It is much better than the Skylake 17R4 (core differential).

    Enjoy your new unit..
     
  41. iunlock

    iunlock 7980XE @ 5.4GHz

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    True, but at that price of buying it local in your market, it would be cheaper to have someone buy it in the States and ship it (fees included) and still be way under than upper $4K.

    I didn't realize it was that expensive outside the US in some markets. Ouch....holy cow...

    Yea at those prices, a DTR is a no brainer.

    The IMG doesn't show for me, could you reupload it? Takk
     
  42. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    [​IMG]

    Some places is much more expencive than US. See as well the same fully stripped down AWBOOK 17 If you buy it in England. +$4500Usd isn't cheap for a stripped down gaming Book who cost $2,704.99
    in US. People in US maybe earn less, but still... Electronics is Cheap over there :)

    upload_2017-4-17_11-57-48.png


    upload_2017-4-17_11-54-24.png
     
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  43. rinneh

    rinneh Notebook Prophet

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    But thats also the case with other laptops sold in the UK. Everything is more expensive there because of the pound sterling.
     
  44. rinneh

    rinneh Notebook Prophet

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    The problem is that there is no non bga laptop out there with the same quality in terms of build around that and most dont upgrade or wish to swap out the CPU. The performance differences are minimal.
     
  45. PhoebusXS

    PhoebusXS Newbie

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    Hi, thinking about getting a 17r4 recently, base on this comment ("things are getting handled right now to improve further on what has already been worked on"), would you recommend me buying a current kabylake version of 17r4 or the next refreshed generation?
     
  46. wrathofdeath

    wrathofdeath Notebook Evangelist

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    I asked Dell 3x about the overheating issues and every time I got a reply, including back from their FB page, the response was that they are fixed.
     
  47. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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    Doesnt matter. +-$60USD isn't the Big deal. Same down stripped AWBOOK 17 bought in Germany still costs around $4,460USD. Other countries can't be compered with U.S prices.

    upload_2017-4-18_8-8-27.png

    upload_2017-4-18_8-4-39.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
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  48. PhoebusXS

    PhoebusXS Newbie

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    sounds cool, thanks for the info!
     
  49. wrathofdeath

    wrathofdeath Notebook Evangelist

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    No problem! I'd ask just so you have a record of it :) Just chat em up :)
     
  50. rinneh

    rinneh Notebook Prophet

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    But in the EU tax is already included. In the US this is added when paying. The gap isnt that crazy big.
     
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