*OFFICIAL* Alienware m15 R4 / m17 R4 Owner's Lounge

I love how the review from TechRadar calls it thicc. Don't know how much soy those boys are swallowing over there but its far from thicc.

 

Not sure, perhaps because it seems to be the new flagship?

 

Well well well! breaking news folks! AMD IS HERE!

The Alienware m15 and m17 now offers the benefits of an AMD Radeon™ RX 5500M, including our first ever 7nm graphics architecture on an Alienware Notebook, topping 1,645MHz of Max Boost.

 

Haha. Booyah, TimeSpy 4500 is in the house!

https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-5500M-GPU.436556.0.html

They`ve always had an AMD graphics option at the lower end.

 

haha i know man im trying to find something NEW but cannot. 30xx is a joke rn. No upgrades have been made to this laptop one bit whatsoever. In their descriptions they compare to the R2. Because there is basically no change! why not provide the boards as an upgrade option for R3 users.

 

Perhaps they want you to buy a whole new $2.5k laptop with a $400 new warranty on top, not an upgrade card?

 

BTW the strategy is working, so we can forget about this brand changing direction anytime soon.


This is from their Q3 21 results:

"Our Consumer business had another impressive quarter driven primarily by our premium XPS and Alienware brands, which combined were up 43% on an orders basis."

 

One more stupid comments from Thin and light lovers "It weighs a massive 6.55lb, and comes with a 330W adapter that weighs nearly as much as the laptop itself". Why not just throw out reviews of Applebooks?

This isn't new. Same AMD card in the older models from last year.

 

Some of today's news is Intel's fault too. Any "delivery date" to market that doesn't end in "can buy them right now" is instantly suspect. They talked about 8 core TL chips as far back as a year ago as "working on them right now" and today we still hear "coming soon". That means every vendor got nada for new cpu's a couple of not bad but not fantastic gpu's and had to turn that into some hype for a new product which really isn't "new".
But still these things behave more like hotplates to heat your food on than computing devices. Leave them on, flip and close them put a bubble on top and you'd have a hot air popcorn popper. Wonder if anyone ever tried to pop kernels under their notebook.

 

The RX 5500m is likely the base GPU to lower the entry cost to buy an m15 R4 and m17 R4 (as currently, they're above $2000). It is strange that the RTX 3060 isn't an option for the laptop, though.

 

Rather put the blame on Nvidia. Tiger lake out in all flavours wouldn't help on the Nvidia graphics shortage. No point in push out new machines without graphics cards And Tiger lake won't make the big differnce in gaming with the new castrated graphics cards.


Crypto miners could target laptops next: Nvidia's mobile RTX 3060 Max-P GPU is actually fast enough for ETH mining

There is one huge issue, though. The new GPUs are heavily affected by ongoing shortages, and prices are nowhere near MSRP. Gamers are blaming scalpers and miners, while Nvidia and AMD are struggling to increase production. Now, based on some performance leaks posted on the Baidu forums, it looks like the new mobile GPUs are quite good at mining Ethereum, so maybe miners could direct their attention at laptop solutions as a more affordable alternative to desktop GPUs.

3060 isn't even out for desktops. And I'm sure the OEM is happy for that. This means they can sell more of their expensive SKUs.

 

Well I can say I told you so. Better off going with the 20 series cards. The 30 series are a let down and I can't help but think that they are showing decent numbers on the tests just to push them. From what I saw they don't perform nearly as well as the 20 series in game.

I would agree that they are probably axing the 51m as they don't seem keen on pushing it or correcting the screen issues. I received a good one tjay runs great with great Temps. Makes my mind up for me, I'll request a DIY screen install panel. Hopefully they will cooperate as these are the last of the elite Alienware laptops.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

Did they announce when these will be available outside NA ? Can’t seem to find them on the UK nor any other sites in Asia.

 

We are still waiting. You could check out other outlets such as XMG or HIDevolution.

 

The Alienware twitter just messaged me that it should be available in UK tomorrow.

 

That's nice. With all the different config options available in the US?

 

They are now available sir

 

Prices are so crazy that I just lol ed.

 

WOAH.... 17R4 with 10980HK, 2x512 R0 (min Konfig), 32GB 2933Mhz, RTX3080, 3Y ONS, 3YACD, 360Hz Panel ---> 4383€

My A51m was 1k€ less

- No On Site Service in the basic config anymore
- 360Hz Panel only with Lunar light

 

THIN OUT THE CUSTOMER BASE.

 

per key light only with US layout... German layout with 4 zone AFX wtf Dell...

 

AW offerings in Europe could sometimes be a subset of US availability. Global availability varies.

 

Hmm. £4k (well over $5k US) for the cheapest m15 3080 8GB with unspecified TGP, and 2Y on site service (1Y on site no longer included, 2Y costs almost £500 extra), cheapest FHD screen, and W10 Pro. US keyboard only.

Now, some of that is probably covid/GPU shortage pricing, but it's steep nevertheless.

For comparison XMG NEO 15 with Ryzen 5900HS, 3080 16GB 135+15W, 3200Mhz RAM non-soldered, is around 2600 euro, so ca. £2400... Albeit available from end of March

https://bestware.com/en/xmg-neo-15-amd-e21.html

 

Alienware has screwed up again.... In this video he says:" ...the m-series notebooks now feature a TCC Offset Controller. A lot of people online have asked for the solution and we listened". Nobody asked for THIS solution and especially not for TCC.

Further he says: " TCC offset will reduce maximum CPU temps but may also slightly reduce CPU performance in certain applications". Technically, this is true, but it's only half of the truth.

In the video he puts down a 15 at TCC offset. (I think he doesn't know what he is doing)



What does the 15 mean? TCC stands for "Thermal Control Circuit" and is a regulation (from Intel) via CPU-Temp Target (TjMax). What it actually does, it subtracts the 15 (in this case) from the maximum CPU-temp target. That means, if the TjMax was 100°C, the CPU now throttles at 85°C (100-15 = 85°C). So he's telling the truth (" ..TCC offset will reduce maximum CPU temps"...). The temperatures will look great in HWinfo and AWCC. However, only because the CPU is forced to throttle as it reaches 85°C. This makes the performance even worse. And again Dell has found a way to fool the owners.

@Papusan @etern4l

Documentation from Intel about TCC:



( PDF)

 

Remember if you don't need this machine right away let the price cool off a bit. Additionally it helps to improve options and competition if we see everyone's cards before buying (where possible). I'm curious if we'll see a 51M R3 or not, will there be any AGA style solution down the road (if not then the TB4 port in TL M17 would be better direct to CPU than the add on chip of a RL 51MR3), and how real world thermals hold up (both chips might be hot or 10nm might be useful for TL, but after Intel's many oopses I'd err on the side of show me don't tell me).

If people can stand to wait - a few months might be very telling. And note since Wifi is soldered that the R4's have a Killer 1650 Wifi 6 card, and there is already a 1675 6e card. Of course 51M owners can switch at their leisure, a noted advantage seldom talked about, allowing them to use the AX200/210 models which are better, imo.

 

Yeah, they try all dirty tricks in the book. They are the Bellwether on how to destroy their own products with nasty sensors/software/drivers and firmware in an awful and sick combination. And I'm quite sure bro @unclewebb will enjoy it and also learn more trickery from Dell.

Please post either the link with a summary or write up an new article (double posting not allowed on NBR) in my thread How Dell cripple performance explained by......

+reps

 

Well TCC isn't awesome, I can definitely see a condition (in addition to volt and fan control) where you might lower it by maybe 5 just because thermals hitting 100 seems pretty over the top by most people. But if you thought they were putting voltage control in the bios that didn't happen. It's less than what should be but a bit better than zero

 

Dell is the advocate for 100C. Maybe they have discovered increased RMA costs due boiling hardware as MB power delivery components? Intel chips normally handle up to 100C quite good (Throttle it self down when temp reach the limits) so it has to be to protect the components on the MB.

Or maybe they try new tricks to throw over some temp headroom over to the GPU so it can perform a bit better in games? Remember newer nvidia graphics cards perform better the lower temp they can run. Unified heatsink is a nasty tech. And they know very well how to use it for own gains instead for making proper and good enough cooling. Just sad.

 

The link doesn't work but if FW are touting this as an amazing feature then lol. Disgusting (c) @Papusan

Also, we've been told the systems have been designed to operate at 100C. Has something changed?

People who spend $5000 on a laptop, most likely do so get their money's worth in performance. They need more effective cooling, not another throttling option.

I don't need this machine, and won't buy it. I might end up with one of my m15 R1 fails under warranty. I would lose the ability to use my new AX210 6E WiFi card, and there would be no prospect of upgrading RAM, so not looking forward to that.

 

I repaste many AW devices (in Germany). Most owners have no idea what's going on. Some of them haven't even seen the BIOS. They don't know how to understand performance data correctly. They see the high temperatures in AWCC and are dissatisfied. Dell could very easily set a default TCC offset of 15 through a bios update. All those who have no idea then believe that their device runs perfectly. In reality, the temperatures are good because the CPU's performance is poor. However, they've paid the full price for the notebook and deserve the full performance and not such features. If you had a decent chassis, no inverted mobo, possibility to uv, a better cooling solution, you don't need such tricks.

Video: (3:00 - 3:30)


Documentation from Intel about TCC: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/s...e-products/intel-joule-thermal-management.pdf

 

I have posted my best guesses. Try to reduce RMA costs or let the Gpu have some better thermal headroom. Regardless... Dell doesn't implement such tech to improve the overall performance

Could you please re-upload the video? Thanks.

Yeah, Ernie out again with a new video, LOOL

He always run away when people asked him to fix previous models. And He will probably also avoid answering on "why people wanted" this feature" over better cooling I'm sure they found up this by themself for own reasons.

 

Over in the real world, a decent desktop motherboard lets you increase the thermal throttling temperature. When running a benchmark, I would rather have an extra 15°C of thermal headroom than be crippled by a -15°C offset.

 

Hate to beat a dead horse, but couldn't resist posting this beautiful gem from the FW AMA: https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/...ware_discord_ama_with_eddy_goyanes_and_ernie/


Q: How much better is the cooling system in the R4 versions vs R3? Looks like a small improvement but there's not a lot of reviews out there currently to really get a good sense.

Well, ALL of the R4 configs include vapor chamber cooling. In R3 it depended on which GPU you got. So that's a plus. and don't forget the TCC Offset controller offered in the R4 now. It's like cruise control for your CPU temps.



Perhaps due to coivd they forgot how cruise control works - if you had a temp CC in a laptop you would set a particular temp, like 95 or 100C, and the laptop would keep that temp all the time

 

He literally has no idea what TCC is really doing. Performance needs current and current generates heat.
The only way to reduce the heat is to reduce the current (with undervolting) or to reduce the performance. TCC reduces the performance.

 

If I understand it correctly, this TCC allows you to reduce the throttling point of the chip ?

The m17 r3 throttles at 100C by default and now they are letting you customise it I guess ? There is obviously going to be a performance hit but I guess this is for those who want to keep temps low even at the cost of performance. I wonder if undervolting will still be around.

I seriously don’t understand why they just won’t give the AMD processors a shot. The only reason could be potential supply chain issues that AMD was talking about. But other manufacturers seem to get along just fine.

 

Adding AMD CPU support would involve a new mobo design.

Another reason why AMD CPU would work particularly well, is the AGA port - AMD CPUs don't have TB3/4 so there is no way to attach an eGPU, but AGA would work around that.

 

Which laptops are getting PCIe 4 support? Only Intel 11th Gen CPU based laptops? What about AMD?

@Papusan

 

Killer question: none, of the current AMD laptop CPUs support it: https://www.amd.com/en/products/ryzen-processors-laptop
Would need something with a Ryzen 5000 series desktop CPU (or Tiger Lake).

 

This is a guess but it may well be about cost AND availability of AMD cpu's. Dell may have asked for some quantity guarantees so they could do a manufacturing run at volume. And they quite likely asked for a certain level of discount from AMD, much like they do with Intel. When Intel is at a disadvantage they discount big vendors quite a bit. However AMD is in a high position of being able to sell as many cpu' s as they can get off the factory lines. So they probably refused both contract terms, no quantity minimum (Dell would have to wait like everyone else) and no major discount because they can sell for list or close to list and still sell as many as they can make. Desktop cpu's have a bit better supply chain so possibly those have come first. But on a positive note just like those desktops I expect AW to eventually offer both Intel and AMD cpu's as options. They want to make money and people who want to spend have been asking for this for years.

 

Eternal just fyi the Maple Lake TB 4 chip (for any vendor) pretty recently started shipping. So TB on AMD designs should be possible sometime in the not too distant future. Even if that didn't instantly get an AMD mobile option in the AW products, it would lower the hurdles.
Maybe that plays into EOL for the AGA as in to be able to offer both CPU's they have to move to a TB chip that can be built onto any CPU choice? Rocket Lake needs this chip too in order to offer TB connect. Only Tiger Lake has TB native, but once all 4 platforms AMD desktop, AMD mobile, and Intel same can use TB then you have a commonality and maybe the AGA doesn't fit. Not confident in this guess, just throwing it into your ideas

 

The sad truth bro Kevin.... Todays gamer kids isn't so well versed in how tech works. They are more interested in (hanged up in) the design and flashy blinky bling bling flashing lights.

See... They do not even grasp that they are heavly screwed by the OEM. They don't even know that they are fooled into useless tech that will only benefit the OEM manufacturer. In short the OEM will continue create tech that they know their "userbase-customers-followers" will eat with with <skin and hair> and without a single own thought on why they did it.

+ nowadays AW enhusiasts who follow DELL AW in thin and thick don't bench much. A big difference vs what it was in the golden days (before the BGA models saw the lights).


Edit. Added in my own views and thoughts on this flawed fix...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/...?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Maybe fooled by own (Dell's) engineers

Can you please tell me how the always up to date Dell tech support/sales team should be able to explain the gamer-kids why some of their gaming models have the EOL AGA port and some not? Or would they use same chassis as for the Intel systems aka the old with the AGA port on a AMD mobile system? More I/O ports on the chassis in itself is always impressive but they all have to works.

 

Spartan AMD is going pci-e 3.0 on laptop designs this go around.
Tiger Lake and Rocket Lake get 4.0, but not the R4 models out right now due to Tiger Lake being "delayed" (insert dead horse here) again. Rocket Lake is due in March, will run hot probably because it's a 14nm backport of the Cove Core, but since desktops cpu's have been hot for a while that's less of a worry to Intel. Intel intends to correct desktops to 10nm in Sep, if you drink the cool aid, as they indicated that is their release time.

4.0 chips might get a few more % out of the ampere series than they did on 3.0. The 500 series chipset has a rather long list of improvements including doubling the DMI link bandwidth on top of the 20 4.0 lanes coming off the cpu's.
The Intel Z590 Motherboard Overview: 50+ Motherboards Detailed (anandtech.com)

Anyway I'm thinking anyone watching DTR notebooks based on desktop cpu's might be seeing some nice uptick in March if they can manage the heat. Shoppers who can wait might look to 12th gen in Sep but I don't think anyone is betting money they don't want to lose on that timing.

 

So is the m17 R4 with i9-10980HK and Rtx 3080 not worth it then?

 

Debi,

In my opinion, no. I said months ago that the 30 series would be a flop in notebooks and they have proven that correct. The R4 is a great laptop and would be a good choice, but the R3 with the 20 series is a better choice. Just remember you can't upgrade RAM.

The better choice is the Area-51M if you don't care about portability.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

I just took a look at pics and the RAM is soldered!? In this day and age lol yikes! Will there be an updated Area 51m in the near future with 11th gen Intel or AMD 5000? Is the RAM in the Area 51 R2 upgradeable or are they soldered in too?

 

Debi,

The Area-51M is upgradeable. I have one and they are fantastic machines. I personally think they are discontinuing the Area 51m R2. They have the prices slashed right now and you can get a great deal.

If you were to buy one, choose the 2 option that has the AMD video card and configure it and upgrade from that one. There's a secret dicsount with that config. You can configure it to have a 2080 Super if needed.

I can't believe they are soldering RAM in a gaming laptop. Big mistake and why I sent mine back. They are nice machines though.

Oh I wanted to get the Area-51M before they discontinue it. One of the last great ones in my opinion. The 2080 Super blows the 3080 out of the water. And it uses a desktop CPU which will outperform all the mobile versions.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

Even the wifi card is soldered on. No upgrade paths without have to pop in an USB Wifi thumb. Damn pretty if you want it thin, slim and clean. + the models have huge lack of I/O ports from before. @etern4l

 

You think they're going to discontinue the Area 51 altogether!? That would be terrible! How is the 2080 Super better than the3080?

 

Is the WiFi card soldered on in the Area 51 R2?

 

No. Only the thin modern AW laptops.

As a notice. Dell use normal wifi cards for their pure Dell branded gaming laptop models https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-...-Alienware-Performance-for-Less.437540.0.html


Even the smaller https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-...-Inexpensive-with-Easy-Upgrades.436972.0.html